January 17, 201213 yr I am all for the streetcar, but I wish the city would publically respond to some of the attacks against it. Does anyone know if the sewer line issues have been resolved, and WHEN they will at least break ground?
January 17, 201213 yr I am all for the streetcar, but I wish the city would publically respond to some of the attacks against it. Does anyone know if the sewer line issues have been resolved, and WHEN they will at least break ground? Why let TOAST see the City's hand?
January 17, 201213 yr Portland Streetcar System Flourishing Despite Challenges System Is Inspiration For Cincinnati's Plans Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/money/20346537/detail.html#ixzz1jk557byn
January 17, 201213 yr ...and Chris Smitherman is on the bumpers now as a regular host. I doubt he's being paid. His 2-hour show today will be dedicated to the streetcar: 5-7P CHRIS SMITHERMAN Chris gets into the streetcar to nowhere and how this is going to impact you in the burbs at 5:06 http://www.700wlw.com/pages/programming.html#ixzz1jYppAwQS Gee, I know didn't know the suburbs were part of his constituency, and that citizens living in the city weren't. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 17, 201213 yr Here is their strategy: It has NOTHING to do with stopping the streetcar. It has EVERYTHING to do with ruining reputations and winning future elections. If they can create SUCH negativity about the streetcar, that even after it opens and in the first couple years we begin seeing successes, people won't believe it. It's just like The Banks. 298 apartments leased, 70% of retail leased, and Bob Schwartz blogged the other day that at a Bengals game a little boy said "Daddy what's that?", after the dad didn't answer Bob interjected, "it's called The Banks", and the dad quickly replied "that's never gonna happen". It IS happening, but he and tens of thousands of other suburbanites are convinced it's not and isn't going to happen. And it does matter what they think. For any of these progressive causes to expand to a light rail line to Kenwood or West Chester we need suburban support. They are trying to turn people off so when we go to fund a light rail expansion, NO ONE outside the City votes for it. If the streetcar is successful in Cincinnati but everyone in Blue Ash is convinced it's failing, then we're screwed when it comes to expanding rail to where they are. And light rail within City Limits really isn't cost effective. The first line should be 9-15 miles, and in most realistic corridors, that means crossing just out of the City (exception being downtown to Hyde Park to Oakley to Madisonville).
January 18, 201213 yr You say light rail in the city wouldn't be cost effective, yet two of the best routes for city residents and commuting would be a line out to Madisonville and one to Westwood or W Price Hill. A third line up to Paddock Hills or Bond Hill would be successful too.
January 18, 201213 yr Chris Smitherman on Doc Thompson's show today. Here are the anti-streetcar stats from just Thompson and Cunningham's show this year(mind you, they had some days off at the beginning of the year): # of hour slots Doc Thompson has gone after the streetcar: 6 # of hour slots Bill Cunningham has gone after the streetcar: 2 # of times Chris Finney has appeared on a show: 3 # of Times Chris Smitherman has appeared on a show(Both on Doc): 2 + a 2 hour long special against the streetcar Total number of hour slots devoted to bashing the streetcar: 10 Mods: Is there a way I can keep a tally on here of the statistics of 700wlw? Should I create a new thread?
January 18, 201213 yr You say light rail in the city wouldn't be cost effective, yet two of the best routes for city residents and commuting would be a line out to Madisonville and one to Westwood or W Price Hill. A third line up to Paddock Hills or Bond Hill would be successful too. Downtown to paddock hills is 5.5 miles. DT to Bond hill is 6.6 miles. DT to Westwood is 7 miles. Those are not cost effective lines for Light rail, and are much better suited for BRT. Nor is there any reasonable way to procure funding for a city only light rail line. Looking at a list of all current light rail projects (from The Transport Politic) almost no new lines are being built that are under 10 miles in the whole country. Basically everything shorter is an extension. And the average new line is about 12-14. Madisonville to DT would be 10.5 miles, hence why I listed it as my one exception in my previous post. All of those lines are reasonable IF they extend further out to the county. And my main point was, nearly any light rail line in Cincinnati would need to extend out of Cincinnati to be a worthwhile investment and realistic project. BRT however could easily be done on the arterial blvds to the neighborhoods you mentioned, while true LR corridors can be planned for longer distance routes in the future. Back to the streetcar: Woo goo streetcar!
January 18, 201213 yr Chris Smitherman on Doc Thompson's show today. Here are the anti-streetcar stats from just Thompson and Cunningham's show this year(mind you, they had some days off at the beginning of the year): # of hour slots Doc Thompson has gone after the streetcar: 6 # of hour slots Bill Cunningham has gone after the streetcar: 2 # of times Chris Finney has appeared on a show: 3 # of Times Chris Smitherman has appeared on a show(Both on Doc): 2 + a 2 hour long special against the streetcar Total number of hour slots devoted to bashing the streetcar: 10 Mods: Is there a way I can keep a tally on here of the statistics of 700wlw? Should I create a new thread? I'm not a moderator, but I'd support keeping the stats in this thread. Keeps everything in one place. Otherwise, a lot of us will miss this really important and surprising stuff. BTW, nice work compiling this. Much appreciated.
January 18, 201213 yr I support it having its own thread. It's on topic, but it's repetitive and detracts from the flow of conversation in here. Just my 2c.
January 18, 201213 yr If the stats are directly related to the streetcar, then it's relevant in this thread. If the discussion is about WLW in general, it should be in the appropriately-named Official 700 WLW Sucks Thread.
January 18, 201213 yr I'll update it periodically on the streetcar. I think its a necessity even though its annoying. I just thought maybe there was a way to have a running tally on the side of the forum thread or something. Thakns for the input
January 19, 201213 yr Crossposting from the Cincinnati City Council thread. Streetcar supporter questions Smitherman's ethics For the second time in two months, Cincinnati’s streetcar project has inspired a request for legal action from Cincinnati Solicitor John Curp. Last month, we told you about the founder of the anti-tax group, COAST, requesting a lawsuit to stop the streetcar to prevent the infringement Hamilton County property rights. Now, local attorney Casey Coston has asked Curp to seek an Ohio Ethics Commission advisory opinion on whether Christopher Smitherman is violating state ethics rules by holding dual roles as a member of city council and president of the Cincinnati NAACP. Because it is a 501 ©(4) corporation, the local chapter “can participate in political campaigns and elections,” Coston’s attorney, Tom Hodges, argued in a Jan. 19 letter that was emailed to Curp and the Business Courier. That “raises serious concerns of irreconcilable and impermissible conflicts of interest” that “would represent an abuse of the corporate powers” if the city left unchecked. Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
January 19, 201213 yr An updated version of the courier has this quote from Smitherman: "I love it. It shows their desperation" Let me guess...he'll be a guest on 700wlw tomorrow and 55krc I still don't know how its legal to be head of the NAACP, be on city council, and host shows on radio airwaves promoting your agenda on council
January 20, 201213 yr Apparently, it is the national NAACP's policy says something about if an officer is elected to public office, they must resign from their position as an NAACP officer. There was a long, carefully-worded FAQ on Cincinnati NAACP's site saying that Smitherman would submit his resignation but the officers could "reject" it, meaning he could technically stay on as president. That definitely goes against the spirit of the rule, and it would be interesting to hear the national NAACP weigh in on the issue.
January 20, 201213 yr Smitherman clearly regards the Cincinnati NAACP as his black political fiefdom, rather than a chapter of a respectable national organization. It's hardly surprising then that he would disregard any ethics rules that they have.
January 21, 201213 yr Letter: Smitherman has conflict Councilman calls streetcar views real motive http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
January 21, 201213 yr Letter: Smitherman has conflict Councilman calls streetcar views real motive http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE How typical of The Enquirer to wait until late on a Friday to post that story.
January 21, 201213 yr Why not? After the Sunday paper, a Friday newspaper is the most heavily read. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 21, 201213 yr Why not? After the Sunday paper, a Friday newspaper is the most heavily read. It wasn't posted to the front page (where people could actually see it) until after 9pm.
January 21, 201213 yr Anyone can answer this, but exactly why is anyone invested in what the Cincinnati Enquirer prints or what is uttered on WLW airwaves? These two outlets have not, and will not change how they present social climate and local finance in the foreseeable future. That energy could be spent toward getting the community more balanced information (which some UO'ers do), or creating a movement to publicly discredit some of Gannett's more flagrant offenders like Peter Bronson. Energy could also be preserved by ignoring the outlets and directing any influence or capital you may offer toward more fruitful avenues.
January 21, 201213 yr ^ because perception matters. The upper middle income family in Mason will stop coming to downtown to spend their money if they believe it's some horrible place with a massively disfunctional government. Think of a place like Detroit. I've never been there- but I could "describe" it to you. Giant abandoned boulevards, skyrocketing crime, a government of idiots & cronies, a fleeing population, etc. That's the perception Many people have from the media. Cincinnati cannot support its own economy. Few places can be that self sufficient. We NEED people to Come into town. Whether from the suburbs, or tourists from completely out of town, it's needed. And when people have this negative perception of dysfunctionality and chaos, it drives them away. So even when the streetcar gets built and is great, only the people coming down here will notice that. Everyone up in the suburbs listening to 700 WLW will be convinced it's still a failure and when we try to get light rail to blue Ash, there won't be support. Perception really does make a difference. For all I know, Detroit could have a wonderful downtown vibrant with great energy, all kinds of things to see, but because of my perception I might pass up my next opportunity to go there and instead choose Minneapolis. (obviously I'm well aware of Detroits gems, but for the sake of this conversation I'm playing dumb).
January 21, 201213 yr Letter: Smitherman has conflict Councilman calls streetcar views real motive http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Did Smitherman call himself a stockbroker or did the reporter do that? What an old-fashioned term for that occupation. Calling yourself a stockbroker sounds cool if you're trying to impress a girl's dad in an '80s movie, but it's terrible for business.
January 21, 201213 yr Because those outlets have given a voice the invented county-vs-city crisis, in which the city is the spoiled baby who needs to be disciplined by the avuncular county. It is the county, of course, that has laid off police, raised taxes, and is desperately looking for assets to sell. It is the county who has a prosecutor who was booted from the state treasurer's office in disgrace and a county auditor who worked in the music business for several decades. The problem children in city government are Smitherman and Winburn, both obvious bottom feeders to anyone familiar with them, but who are enabled by our non-functioning media who refuses to familiarize the public with their con jobs.
January 21, 201213 yr >Did Smitherman call himself a stockbroker The precise nature of Smitherman's professional employment has been a mystery for some time: http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/03/enq-smitherman-no-certified-financial.html I temped for awhile at Nationwide a cubicle away from the ladies who did what I suspect Smitherman does/did for a living...this stuff is not rocket science. And what's more, it's really easy to con old people out of their retirement savings, so if you're wondering how Smitherman afforded that house, that's where I'd start my investigation.
January 21, 201213 yr I have heard Smitherman refer to himself as a stockbroker on at least two separate occasions. So about that streetcar...
January 21, 201213 yr Recent letters: One little problem with this free streetcar idea 01/19/12 at 7:52am [no link provided] Gordon Wilshire Fort Thomas Mayor’s visit to Saudi Arabia 01/16/12 at 11:48am [no link provided] Gary Horwitz Wyoming Streetcar and light rail are a waste of money 01/12/12 at 11:59am [no link provided] Robert S. Holzman Hartwell Streetcar not likely to lure shoppers 01/11/12 at 11:54am by Letters Editor | 0 Comments [no link provided] Mike Wills Price Hill City wasting money it doesn’t have 01/11/12 at 11:47am [no link provided] Allen Williams West Chester Make streetcars free to lure city shoppers 01/11/12 at 8:56am [no link provided] Randy McKnight Clifton
January 21, 201213 yr This is offensive: Chris mentioned that the streetcar was put on the ballot for a second time and people voted for it. To really find out how many people actually wanted it, one would have to know how many times a person who voted “No” actually thought he or she was voting against the project. Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18957.15840.html#ixzz1k7Fxfx82 Smitherman said the same thing about No on 9 leading up to the 48 election. Does he really think the voters are that stupid? How many times can they use this excuse and not be called out? Also, I like what Curp is doing here. Trying to remain above the fray to avoid any bias accusations...but...we have tried the political process. And won. Twice. We have also elected pro-streetcar majorities t council in each of the past two elections as well as a Mayor who has staked his mayorship on the issue. The political process has been played out as far as I'm concerned. Curp also suspects the streetcar is a reason for Coston’s complaint. “I wish both sides of the streetcar issue would stop looking for remedies from a judge and would start working through the political system to resolve things,” Curp said.
January 21, 201213 yr Recent letters: Streetcar and light rail are a waste of money 01/12/12 at 11:59am This project is a colossal waste of taxpayer money whether from local or federal funds, which ultimately is our own tax money coming back to us. Many buses use the route presently designated for the path of the streetcar and business is not booming in that area. To merely change the mode of transportation from a bus to a streetcar as an enhancement to generate the kind of revenue needed to support itself is ludicrous. Streetcar foes have entirely run out of new things to say. You could create an editorial-writing program that takes the twenty most used anti-streetcar arguments, puts them together randomly, comes up with a fake name and neighborhood/suburb and you'd get instantly published. If businesses were currently booming around the streetcar line, what would be the point in trying to spur development?
January 21, 201213 yr The whole city vs. suburbs (and city vs. rest of the state) dynamic has been on my mind a lot lately, especially comparing Cincinnati and Portland, as I'm hoping to do a five-month co-op in Portland later this year. While previous posts on this thread have noted the similarities between Portland and Cincinnati regarding population, density, etc., I decided to quickly crunch some numbers to see if there's a demographic reason why projects like the streetcar and light rail seem to have so much greater political support in Portland than here. Even when reading the comments on OregonLive.com (their daily newspaper) in response to stories about streetcar and light rail expansion, I've noticed that while there are always a few right-wingers and NIMBY activists who oppose transit in general, there doesn't seem to be the same undercurrent of racism and outright anti-city bigotry that one finds here. Whenever a suburbanite makes a derogatory comment about the city of Portland, it's usually in regards to the hipsters as opposed to gangs or crackheads. (I guess one could always make the argument that racism isn't as much of a problem in a city that's almost 3/4 white and less than 8% black.) Anyway, back to the numbers... I started by looking up the population numbers of each county of the MSA based on the 2010 census. Here are the raw numbers: Cincinnati MSA City of Cincinnati: 296,943 Hamilton County: 802, 374 Hamilton County, excluding Cincinnati: 505,431 Brown OH: 44,846 Clermont OH: 197,363 Warren OH: 212,693 Butler OH: 368,130 Boone KY: 118,811 Bracken KY: 8,488 Campbell KY: 90,336 Gallatin KY: 8,589 Grant KY: 24,662 Kenton KY: 159,720 Pendleton KY: 14,877 Dearborn IN: 50,047 Franklin IN: 23,087 Ohio IN: 6,128 Portland MSA City of Portland: 583,776 Multnomah County: 735,334 Multnomah County, excluding Portland: 151,558 Clackamas OR: 375,992 Columbia OR: 49,351 Washington OR: 529,710 Yamhill OR: 99,193 Clark WA: 425,363 Skamania WA: 11,066 Here's the breakdown of each MSA in chart form: Both MSA's have about 20-24% of their respective populations across a state line. For electoral purposes, that segment of the population doesn't really matter as far as city projects are concerned. (Portland is somewhat notable in that their regional planning body, Metro, is directly elected but does not extend into Washington State. Here in Cincinnati, OKI extends into three states but is not an elected body.) When looking at statewide politics, both Ohio and Oregon are in situations where the urban population forms approximately half of the statewide population. But that's about where the similarities end. Ohio is obviously a much larger state, but also has two other large MSA's with over two million people, and those cities probably spend at least as much political energy competing against each other as they do competing against the more rural parts of the state. In Oregon, Portland is clearly the dominant city, and when combined with the rest of the Willamette Valley (which includes Salem, Corvalis, and Eugene / Springfield), about 75% of the state's population lives in areas that tend to be more urbanized, and as such, tend to vote more progressively. (For the sake of simplicity, I've lumped smaller MSA's in both states -- Toledo, Akron, Eugene, etc. -- into "rural", although I realize those areas are fairly urbanized.) The real kicker, though, comes when you break it down to county-level politics, which as we all know, can have a big impact on what happens inside the city. Short version: Cincinnati is still held hostage by Hamilton County, while Portland dominates the affairs of Multnomah County. Of course, these charts gloss over some important nuances. Not every suburbanite or rural resident is a COAST / tea party stooge and not every city resident is pro-transit, and I suspect even the suburban population of Portland is more politically progressive than that of Cincinnati. It would be interesting to compare the numbers above with recent voting returns, but that's a bit more than I have time for right now. But these numbers have implications beyond election results, and also translate into market demographics for local media outlets, etc.
January 21, 201213 yr ^ OK, so I guess what you are saying is that Cincinnati is a small city in a larger county, and Portland is a bigger city in a county of about the same size. I am wary about assuming that dominating the county would unleash us from our presumed shackles. If City boundaries were suddenly made equal to County boundaries, what then? I see as many potential negatives as I see positives (and, yes, I think I do understand the obvious positives). With regard to racial undertones to arguments, Portland's very small black population is an obvious reason -- more than a "I guess". Portland feels a lot "whiter" and more homogeneous than 75%, just walking the streets. To me, that feels as unnatural as the Chicago suburb that I grew up in, which is probably the main reason why I'd never consider moving there; it seems that I'd be adopting the same stick my head in the sand attitude that my parents generation had. Heck, even the homeless people in Portland seem like hipsters who felt it would be cool to leave their parents homes for a couple of weeks.
January 21, 201213 yr I'm just presenting the numbers, not advocating any specific changes regarding political boundaries, etc. I agree that a hypothetical merger between Cincinnati and Hamilton County (or something along those lines) would present as many problems as solutions. Just imagine Mayor Chris Monzel in city hall. The racial makeup of Portland is as follows: White: 73.9% Hispanic / Latino: 8.8% Asian: 7.8% Black / African-American: 7.8% Native American: 2.8% Pacific Islander: 0.2% Other: 3% Whatever racial undercurrents I've seen on Portland news article comments, apartment complex reviews, etc. seem more directed at Hispanics than toward Blacks. That said, Portland isn't without its own ugly racial history against Blacks, especially as large numbers of Blacks moved to Portland during World War II to work in wartime industries, and were largely segregated into Vanport City, which severely flooded after a levee failure in 1948. The flood and the government response to it are widely considered a prelude to what would happen on a much larger scale when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans. I, too, was taken aback by the number of white homeless people and panhandlers in Portland compared to other American cities I've been to. I noticed the same thing in Los Angeles, and I suspect it's a West Coast phenomenon in general. Middle-class hipster kids aside, if I found myself without a home and no future, I'd certainly do everything in my power to move to a more mild climate.
January 21, 201213 yr >I am wary about assuming that dominating the county would unleash us from our presumed shackles. If City boundaries were suddenly made equal to County boundaries, what then? Right, the streetcar is NOT getting built in Columbus (which dominates its county) for this exact reason. Mayor Coleman backed their streetcar proposal in 2007, but abandoned it by 2009 (or even in 2008) since he's at the mercy of a mostly suburban electorate. What Columbus and Cincinnati do have in common is many alumni from their respective state universities have raised families in the suburbs, and much of their views of those cities comes from the campuses. In Columbus, there is not the visceral teeth-grinding response to the revitalization of Short North as compared to Over-the-Rhine. This is because Short North was never made into a bogieman to which the great 2-minutes of suburban hate was directed. I think the High St. streetcar could have happened in Columbus a bit easier than the Cincinnati streetcar for this reason, but Coleman has avoided the non-stop harassment that Mallory has received for the past four years.
January 21, 201213 yr Well, after thinking about it for a while, we're starting to think that the Columbus streetcar/light rail project might be better off starting in a part of town that needs more help than High Street does, such as on Broad or Main. It might have been a good thing to take some time to reassess our plans. That's not the case in Cincinnati. Cincy's route is spot on. While Columbus does make up a much larger portion of the county than the suburbs do, much of the development in Columbus is in the suburban style. Folks living in those situations aren't necessarily pro-urban by nature even if they are city residents.
January 21, 201213 yr The problem in Columbus is that High is narrow but Summit and 4th are wide -- it's one of the great road quirks to be found in an American city. So there is this constant temptation to want to build rail on either or both of those streets, when they are a a half mile away from the action and doing so would get lower ridership and pull a small amount of investment away from High St. Then, everything after High St. is sort of equal. We can say Main or Broad or Parsons and each would be about evenly meritorious.
January 23, 201213 yr Don't know if this has been posted in the 530 pages here but while we continue to wait for construction this is a cool website on Cincinnati streetcars and other transit options http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/Transit1/
January 23, 201213 yr Don't know if this has been posted in the 530 pages here but while we continue to wait for construction this is a cool website on Cincinnati streetcars and other transit options http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/Transit1/ That is the site of a fellow forumer, jjakucyk.
January 23, 201213 yr That's crazy, I've never heard of such a place, where's my lawyer? Sorry JJ! I didn't put two and two together! Awesome site though By the way, anyone else notice that the Enquirer scrubbed the mostly anti-Smitherman comment section clean from the "Letter: Smitherman has conflict" article? http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict
January 23, 201213 yr That's crazy, I've never heard of such a place, where's my lawyer? Sorry JJ! I didn't put two and two together! Awesome site though By the way, anyone else notice that the Enquirer scrubbed the mostly anti-Smitherman comment section clean from the "Letter: Smitherman has conflict" article? http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict Talk about censorship! Boycott the Enquirer!!!
January 23, 201213 yr Ya, and I thought the switch to Facebook comments was supposed to end scrubbing... Also- isn't that "special hearing" about the streetcaf Friday? Anyone know what time?
January 23, 201213 yr 2PM "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
January 23, 201213 yr Wish I could make it. I'm saving the one off day I can swing at my co-op until there's a groundbreaking.
January 24, 201213 yr From Sunday...another ghost-written letter. The anecdote about the stimulus bill, then the "crack train" sounds it's coming right from Kasich's soundbite writers: Unsuccessful streetcars are early warning sign 01/23/12 at 8:22am by Letters Editor | 3 Comments [no link provided] Dan Handley Union Township
January 24, 201213 yr ^ According to voting records, Dan Handley is in fact an actual person this time. It's very easy to check and see if these are real people. If they are, and they're writing letters about politics, they should be a registered voter. Anyone who has ever voted is listed here, by county: http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/voter/f?p=111:1:170612358172022 Download the .txt file and open it in Excel as delimited text with commas as separators. They're pretty fun to browse.
Create an account or sign in to comment