When are they picking the manufacturer for the vehicles?

In about 3 weeks they should have the vehicles selected. The city is also currently in the process of applying for an $800K grant from the Federal Government to put toward a $1.2M study for the uptown circulator routing alternatives (phase 2).

 

 

Do you know how large of a phase they are considering for "2"?  Is "Phase 2" all the way to the Zoo? or just up to corryville & short vine?

 

Also--

 

What are opinions on The Short Vine vs. Jefferson strategy?  I still think that North on Short Vine and South on Jefferson is the best way to go.    Splitting the north & south lines 1 block apart help cover the most ground.  Also, recent work on Jefferson has dramatically increased its pedestrian friendliness (from "none at all" to "almost comfortable") Adding some flashing pedestrian lights could help slow down traffic and the streetcar will do the same.

Except that splitting the route, while it appears to cover more area, actually covers less when you consider round trips.  http://www.humantransit.org/2012/02/one-way-splits-as-symbolic-transit.html

 

The trouble of course is that Kroger isn't opening up the block to connect Vine directly with Short Vine like it used to be, so the logistics of putting southbound streetcar traffic on Jefferson may still work better since it will eliminate some difficult and time-consuming left turns for the streetcar that would be required if it ran both ways on Short Vine (at MLK and Corry). 

The purpose of the study is to determine the uptown routing. From my understanding (based on what the Mayor has said), the goal is to connect all the major points of Uptown - UC, CCHMC, UC Hospital, Zoo.

 

I also think you are confusion phase 1B with phase 2. The uptown connector has already been decided - up Vine St. This is to determine alternatives for the Uptown circulator.

Except that splitting the route, while it appears to cover more area, actually covers less when you consider round trips.  http://www.humantransit.org/2012/02/one-way-splits-as-symbolic-transit.html

 

The trouble of course is that Kroger isn't opening up the block to connect Vine directly with Short Vine like it used to be, so the logistics of putting southbound streetcar traffic on Jefferson may still work better since it will eliminate some difficult and time-consuming left turns for the streetcar that would be required if it ran both ways on Short Vine (at MLK and Corry).

 

Very interesting!

Why does Kroger have control over the Short Vine situation? If I remember correctly, Marge Schott used to own University Plaza. Did Kroger get it after she died?

Kroger has no direct control.  It's a private developer who owns it and gets the final call. At the same time, as Kroger is their primary tenant, Kroger has some swing.  If they demanded it, I'm sure it would happen. 

 

Looking at the most recent site plan (several years old), it's totally possible, with the loss of about 20-30 parking spaces, but the benefit of being the largest grocery store on the line, and the potential to grab LOTS of OTR & Downtowners to  the newly built store. 

 

But having streetcar drive through a parking lot has its own difficulties.  Waiting taxi's, cars waiting everywhere, carts in the middle of the road, etc. Also, of course, the catenary wire would be a unique situation to be dealt with over private property. There are some major challenges, but it's doable.

 

I always wondered why more couldn't be done with that unique parcel of land. Lexington is getting a Kroger's with a parking deck on top, with the store being built out to the street level. Cincinnati is getting a downtown Kroger. Columbus has two great urban Kroger stores...

Waiting taxi's, cars waiting everywhere, carts in the middle of the road, etc.

 

Dont forget about riders carrying groceries waiting for the streetcar.

 

The area around the front door of a supermarket is congested already. The layout is designed to keep traffic moving. The last thing that a grocery store wants there is to make the front door a bus stop, or streetcar stop, as the case may be.

 

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

For historical perspective, take a look at old maps. Both Vine Street and Auburn Avenue met at Short Vine. You can still see the diagonal street pattern today if you ignore the Kroger site and look at Vine and Auburn. Both streets had streetcars.

 

 

I always wondered why more couldn't be done with that unique parcel of land. Lexington is getting a Kroger's with a parking deck on top, with the store being built out to the street level. Cincinnati is getting a downtown Kroger. Columbus has two great urban Kroger stores...

 

At the dunnhumby site? Is that a sure thing?

 

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Uhh, sure it can. The design just has to be more urban and less suburban shopping mall.

The route should not be split between Jefferson and Short Vine, because Jefferson is not a commercial street, except The Smoke Shop, Cinti Wine & Deli, and Taza coffee house.  The same problem exists with the McMillan/WH Taft idea east to Woodburn.

Keep in mind that the plan CincyGuy posted is old and doesn't consider a streetcar route. As shown, there's no way a streetcar will run through the parking lot by the front doors like that...

 

I always wondered why more couldn't be done with that unique parcel of land. Lexington is getting a Kroger's with a parking deck on top, with the store being built out to the street level. Cincinnati is getting a downtown Kroger. Columbus has two great urban Kroger stores...

 

Sherman makes a good point. More can be done with this site, especially if a streetcar is considered into future plans. there are plenty of nearby examples. A garage or rooftop parking would solve the issue and allow for even more development. It'd be a smart development.

 

It would be nice for the streetcar route to include a wholly pedestrian area like some other cities. The idea that the route has to stay on streets is false.

^ the developer is not going to spend a dime, move a building, or do anything else to accommodate a

Streetcar.

^ I vote for using eminent domain.

It's sad that the older plans to re-connect Short Vine just got tossed out because Corryville approved the developer's plan to build a crappy suburban store in an urban area.

^-As stated before, Corryville's Community Council IS the Developers, not Corryville.

No-

 

Anchor Properties is the owner and developer.

Property Information

CORRY ST 7.000 AC

PRS 190 & BK 102 PG 4

PR 160 CONS

 

 

Owner Information

ANCHOR CORPORATE

DEVELOPMENTS LLC

128 E 2ND ST

COVINGTON, KY 41011 USA

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Uhh, sure it can. The design just has to be more urban and less suburban shopping mall.

 

To clarify why the stop cannot be at the front door, shoppers taking the streetcar will exit the store with their groceries, and stand in front of the front door waiting for the streetcar, blocking the exit for other customers. This is especially important when fire exits are considered. The streetcar should stop some distance from the front door to make room for all the queueing.

 

The developer is not going to spend a dime, move a building, or do anything else to accommodate a

Streetcar.

 

He will if he thinks it is in his best interest to do so. Stating that the developer will not spend his own money to accomodate the streetcar is equivalent to saying that the developer doesn't support the streetcar.

 

The route should not be split between Jefferson and Short Vine, because Jefferson is not a commercial street, except The Smoke Shop, Cinti Wine & Deli, and Taza coffee house.  The same problem exists with the McMillan/WH Taft idea east to Woodburn.

 

If the streetcar route were to follow Jefferson, it should be in a private right-of-way, with rapid running, 35 mph or more, with no more than one stop, and function more like "light rail" or a historic interurban. This is one of the few stretches where it makes sense to increase speed, and might even be faster than driving.

 

In fact, I have been toying with the idea of building a section between the zoo and McMillan street first instead of the Over-the-Rhine loop.

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Uhh, sure it can. The design just has to be more urban and less suburban shopping mall.

 

To clarify why the stop cannot be at the front door, shoppers taking the streetcar will exit the store with their groceries, and stand in front of the front door waiting for the streetcar, blocking the exit for other customers. This is especially important when fire exits are considered. The streetcar should stop some distance from the front door to make room for all the queueing.

 

By this reasoning, the streetcar shouldn't stop in front of any store at all. After all, there will be customers with bags waiting to get on, and other customers trying to leave the store.

This is one point where I actually agree with 8th and State.  Placing a streetcar stop in front of a major grocery store like the one being proposed at the site would be a logistical nightmare, unless the store is built all the way up to Jefferson, with the auto/main entrance in the rear.  That said, I don't think it would be too much to ask for people to walk with their groceries to the nearest streetcar stop. 

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Regardless of whether a streetcar should stop directly in front of the door (which is totally unnecessary on any account), it has nothing to do with whether the streetcar could peacefully coexist with a Kroger going through the University Plaza and connecting the two Vine Streets. It must be integrated with the site, yes. I don't see why those two things are included in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence.

I don't really think a streetcar justifies such a radical design change it would take to accomodate a TOD buildout that would allow for transit to actually cut through University Plaza.  Ideally, we could build this:

 

(Del Mar Station, Pasadena, CA)

 

but with the relatively low ridership projected for the streetcar (compared to regional serving heavy or light rail), fairly inexpensive land, and the demographics of the area, I just don't see it making sense, from a development perspective.

 

*sorry the image is so small. I'm pretty clueless about how to post images here. If anyone would like more info on the project: http://www.mparchitects.com/projects/del_mar/index.html

The Portland Streetcar stops at the front door of both Safeway stores on that city's streetcar line. It's in the street, but it's right there. I see people with groceries getting on all the time. As long as it's close, it will be very convernient. I mean, we're building two streetcar stops at Findlay Market, right?

 

Walkable communities, where they're successful, function differently from the driveable suburban development we're all used to seeing. My greatest fear is that the streetcar will be built and we'll keep doing the same kind of development we've done for sixty years. And it be less successful on account of that.

Walkable communities, where they're successful, function differently from the driveable suburban development we're all used to seeing. My greatest fear is that the streetcar will be built and we'll keep doing the same kind of development we've done for sixty years. And it be less successful on account of that.

 

Has there been any effort to improve the walkability of the area with the redesign of the Kroger? Obviously anything they build on that Kroger site will be a better design than the current fiasco, but what if a mid-rise 3-5 story building could be placed on the site. Kroger could be placed underneath, with 2-4 floors of apartments above. This could justify a more urban design for the Kroger, increase the population in Corryville (which the "community council" seems to want), prevent the demolition of more beautiful homes in the neighborhood, and provide a safer, more inviting plaza for bikes, streetcars, and pedestrians. Perhaps the parking could even be placed underground(?). With the close proximity to UC, the garage could make some money during sporting events, graduations, etc. I'm sure some people will be able to point out the huge flaws with my plan, but it's at least a starting point for a conversation of a mixed-use site for that lot.

 

Also, I think that having apartments overlooking Short Vine would be a great view. Perhaps some of the best rooms could be reserved for condos. I know that the condo market probably isn't the strongest in Corryville, and developers could probably make more money off of apartments, but adding some more people with a vested interest in the neighborhood (beyond developers and the few residents who attend community council meetings) would be good for the future of the neighborhood...

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Uhh, sure it can. The design just has to be more urban and less suburban shopping mall.

 

To clarify why the stop cannot be at the front door, shoppers taking the streetcar will exit the store with their groceries, and stand in front of the front door waiting for the streetcar, blocking the exit for other customers. This is especially important when fire exits are considered. The streetcar should stop some distance from the front door to make room for all the queueing.

 

Really? I don't think he meant it literally right in front of the door more as near the entrance in a situation like John described.

 

The developer is not going to spend a dime, move a building, or do anything else to accommodate a

Streetcar.

 

He will if he thinks it is in his best interest to do so. Stating that the developer will not spend his own money to accomodate the streetcar is equivalent to saying that the developer doesn't support the streetcar.

 

Even if it's in his best interest, who says he wants to spend his own money? That's not equivalent to saying he doesn't support it, but look at Duke for example. It's in Duke's best interest to support the streetcar and they've been oh so accommodating.

 

The route should not be split between Jefferson and Short Vine, because Jefferson is not a commercial street, except The Smoke Shop, Cinti Wine & Deli, and Taza coffee house.  The same problem exists with the McMillan/WH Taft idea east to Woodburn.

 

If the streetcar route were to follow Jefferson, it should be in a private right-of-way, with rapid running, 35 mph or more, with no more than one stop, and function more like "light rail" or a historic interurban. This is one of the few stretches where it makes sense to increase speed, and might even be faster than driving.

 

In fact, I have been toying with the idea of building a section between the zoo and McMillan street first instead of the Over-the-Rhine loop.

 

Running it like an "interurban" or "light rail" defeats the point of it being a streetcar - on the street interacting with the urban environment.

 

What's that saying about how some rail opponents will never admit to not supporting a project, but instead will always through out some other alternative?

Someone (like UrbanCincy or Soapbox) should really look into this issue and get the city thinking of innovative TOD - a showcase for new development in the region

Realistically, it will be very difficult for Kroger to design the site the way they want it, and then add a streetcar line. The streetcar line has to be designed integral with the rest of the site, and the streetcar stop CANNOT be at the front door.

 

Uhh, sure it can. The design just has to be more urban and less suburban shopping mall.

 

To clarify why the stop cannot be at the front door, shoppers taking the streetcar will exit the store with their groceries, and stand in front of the front door waiting for the streetcar, blocking the exit for other customers. This is especially important when fire exits are considered. The streetcar should stop some distance from the front door to make room for all the queueing.

 

Really? I don't think he meant it literally right in front of the door more as near the entrance in a situation like John described.

 

Right. All of a sudden the discussion changed to something other than whether it makes sense to have the streetcar going through the University Plaza site, which is what I thought we were talking about.

Isn't the Streetcar supposed to go down Short Vine for some stretch? Why couldn't it just stop at the side of the Kroger?

 

Of all the uses/tenants we ever planned for, groceries were the most difficult. Theaters will use garage, anchor stores will use garage, small tenants don't give a shit where they go as long as the tenant mix and anchors are suitable.

 

Grocery is a douchebag. He always wants to be visible from the state highway with 300' of surface parking in front of the main entrance. You ask them to be creative and they whine about low profit margins and that urban format stores don't do as much volume.

Someone (like UrbanCincy or Soapbox) should really look into this issue and get the city thinking of innovative TOD - a showcase for new development in the region

 

Tell 'em to learn from an unprogressive Cleveland ;-)

 

That's a full-service grocery store at the far-left next to a first-run movie theater:

 

One of the first planned TODs in the USA:

 

Flats East Bank, next to Waterfront Line station:

 

University Circle Intesa/Lot 45 development -- previous conceptual idea:

 

Announced plan for Intesa development, with MUCH MORE density (Euclid-120th station will be moved to Mayfield at the lower-right of image):

 

EDIT: I almost forgot the Shaker Heights Warrensville/Van Aken TOD, for which $44 million has been gathered by the city to rework a six-way intersection into a street grid, thereby turning this......

 

 

Into this -- a new downtown for Shaker Heights served by light-rail.....

 

 

 

I'm sure you guys have seen this or know this but Portland's streetcar is pretty cool in that it doesn't entirely stay on streets...Like some of you guys are advocating.

 

Ideally, something like this going through UC's campus would be great.  Don't know about the logistics or practicality though

 

Portland Streetcar

 

By the way, I'm hearing COAST may try another ballot initiative.  This one in regards to preventing SORTA from 'raising taxes to pay for the streetcar boondoggle'

^I don't know how such a ballot initiative would be possible. (It appears to be a question of state law. Not positive this one, haven't done all the research)

I believe the public has to approve any city earnings tax, be it designated for SORTA or otherwise.  My guess is that they're going to try to prohibit any property tax income from being used for transit, since adjustments to that tax do not require voter approval, and in fact have adjusted annually in order to generate the same sum.  However, aside from the OTR TIF area, I haven't heard any discussion of using property taxes to finance construction or operation of the streetcar.

I'm sure you guys have seen this or know this but Portland's streetcar is pretty cool in that it doesn't entirely stay on streets...Like some of you guys are advocating.

 

Ideally, something like this going through UC's campus would be great.  Don't know about the logistics or practicality though

 

Portland Streetcar

 

 

That's exactly the video that came to mind when I said streetcars don't have to stay on streets.

Someone (like UrbanCincy or Soapbox) should really look into this issue and get the city thinking of innovative TOD - a showcase for new development in the region

 

Tell 'em to learn from an unprogressive Cleveland ;-)

 

 

Shaker Heights isn't in the City and Shaker Square is at the edge of the city limits.  The Eastside suffers because the Red Line isn't sufficent service for such a broad area.  I don't sense progress when examining the rate of commercial investment per square mile in Cleveland.  The bulk of the real estate between downtown & U Circle and U Circle and Shaker isn't being stimulated.  Not the best example on how to repopulate Cincinnati's core.

Shaker Heights isn't in the City and Shaker Square is at the edge of the city limits.  The Eastside suffers because the Red Line isn't sufficent service for such a broad area.  I don't sense progress when examining the rate of commercial investment per square mile in Cleveland.  The bulk of the real estate between downtown & U Circle and U Circle and Shaker isn't being stimulated.  Not the best example on how to repopulate Cincinnati's core.

 

Is the value of a TOD somehow less because it doesn't occur in the mother city? And Shaker Square gets a pass because it's too close to Shaker Heights? I think you've placed some strange, arbitrary conditions for some unknown reasons. And considering the lack of progress in station-area development citywide for so many decades until very recently, the developments I cited (and others I did not) are all the more stunning especially since they were started shortly before the Great Recession and continued unabated through it. If anything, they are accelerating, especially in the University Circle area. Or is that too close to the edge of the mother city to be counted either?

 

EDIT: I encourage a visit -- I'll even offer a guided tour.

Shaker Heights isn't in the City and Shaker Square is at the edge of the city limits.  The Eastside suffers because the Red Line isn't sufficent service for such a broad area.  I don't sense progress when examining the rate of commercial investment per square mile in Cleveland.  The bulk of the real estate between downtown & U Circle and U Circle and Shaker isn't being stimulated.  Not the best example on how to repopulate Cincinnati's core.

 

Is the value of a TOD somehow less because it doesn't occur in the mother city? And Shaker Square gets a pass because it's too close to Shaker Heights? I think you've placed some strange, arbitrary conditions for some unknown reasons. And considering the lack of progress in station-area development citywide for so many decades until very recently, the developments I cited (and others I did not) are all the more stunning especially since they were started shortly before the Great Recession and continued unabated through it. If anything, they are accelerating, especially in the University Circle area. Or is that too close to the edge of the mother city to be counted either?

 

EDIT: I encourage a visit -- I'll even offer a guided tour.

 

Once again, KJP writes up another kicka$$ post!

 

Any new video updates on the streetcar? 

No but there are new photos on the Cincinnati Streetcar FB page:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150760058101675.459228.56963906674&type=1

City Blights, what exists in Cleveland and what is under construction in Cincinnati have little in common.  The Red Line in Cleveland runs almost entirely on a freight railroad right-of-way that means it crosses Cleveland's streets at random spots and often in a ravine or on a slope.  So the station locations are generally not close to established neighborhood business districts. The University Circle station is a 1/2 mile walk or more from most of The Cleveland Clinic and Case Western is not a large state university like UC. 

 

I've mentioned it before but it should be repeated: history has shown in city after city that station locations are more important than speed in attracting ridership and investment.  Streetcars and in-street light rail can place stations right in the center of established areas at a fraction of the cost of subways.  Meanwhile, when abandoned freight railroad right-of-ways are used or rail is built in the median of an expressway, the station locations are hardly ever ideal.  Compare the Dallas versus Houston light rail systems for a recent example of which strategy gets a higher rate of return.  I'm at work so I can't look up the precise statistics, but the Houston light rail line is getting 40,000 riders per day with just 7 miles of track running in Main St. whereas Dallas is getting about 80,000 riders with over 50 miles of track on old rail ROW's and paralleling expressways.  Dallas has spent way more and gotten way less.  The Cleveland Red Line is a 1950's example of what Dallas has done recently.  The Cincinnati Streetcar is like what Houston has built, but in a much more traditional and attractive cityscape. 

 

 

EDIT: I encourage a visit -- I'll even offer a guided tour.

 

I'm not sure if you were speaking directly to him or throwing the offer out in general, but if I make it up to Cleveland this summer, I'd gladly take you up on that. I do not care for Cleveland's sports teams :p , but even as a Cincinnatian I do like that city up North. I've been on the Red Line there once and took it from this nice market place through the city center out to an incredibly random no man's land station that seemed like it was out of Mad Max. I had no idea that Shaker Square existed, it looks great and I'd love to try that diner.

 

As for the streetcar, while our system may not be comparable to Cleveland's in terms of infrastructure and hardware, I see the importance of having TOD. I like the idea of the community building up around transit. Lord knows we're all sick of seeing surface lots downtown. With the streetcar going to 2nd Street now, I'm really looking forward to hopefully seeing this.... er, at least something like it:

 

 

I think the streetcar shelters and waiting area on 2nd really need to be a "showcase" area. GABP brings in a lot of out of towners and suburbanites, we need to really show this thing off. I'm already excited to see people's reactions at Reds games this year when they walk up to the stadium and notice that The Banks is no longer a hole in the ground, but an AWESOME place to be.

Today they were ripping out trees at fountain square next to the road. Not sure if they are replacing them or getting ready to build a street car stop? Anyone know anything about it?

I'm not sure if you were speaking directly to him or throwing the offer out in general, but if I make it up to Cleveland this summer, I'd gladly take you up on that.

 

It's an open invitation. Give me a shout anytime at [email protected]. And I agree that the Cincinnati vs Cleveland rail systems are not comparable. What is comparable is that transit-supportive development can take on many forms and levels of intensity depending on the setting. Flats East Bank is a downtown setting, and the Intesa development at University Circle is a downtown-like setting. So might the Shaker Heights Warrensville TOD, as Shaker seeks to build a downtown to expand its heavily residential tax base. And Shaker Square is a lesson for anyone interested in TOD. It is cited as a leading TOD example in many urban planning textbooks as it embodies the basic features of any successful TOD -- station placed at a central public space surrounded by street-level, publicly accessible uses topped by offices or residential with density diminishing with distance from the central public space (see photo below). 

 

I do not care for Cleveland's sports teams :p

 

Me neither! ;-)

 

Shaker Square, a textbook example of TOD right here in Ohio....

City Blights, what exists in Cleveland and what is under construction in Cincinnati have little in common.  The Red Line in Cleveland runs almost entirely on a freight railroad right-of-way that means it crosses Cleveland's streets at random spots and often in a ravine or on a slope.  So the station locations are generally not close to established neighborhood business districts. The University Circle station is a 1/2 mile walk or more from most of The Cleveland Clinic and Case Western is not a large state university like UC. 

 

I've mentioned it before but it should be repeated: history has shown in city after city that station locations are more important than speed in attracting ridership and investment.  Streetcars and in-street light rail can place stations right in the center of established areas at a fraction of the cost of subways.  Meanwhile, when abandoned freight railroad right-of-ways are used or rail is built in the median of an expressway, the station locations are hardly ever ideal.  Compare the Dallas versus Houston light rail systems for a recent example of which strategy gets a higher rate of return.  I'm at work so I can't look up the precise statistics, but the Houston light rail line is getting 40,000 riders per day with just 7 miles of track running in Main St. whereas Dallas is getting about 80,000 riders with over 50 miles of track on old rail ROW's and paralleling expressways.  Dallas has spent way more and gotten way less.  The Cleveland Red Line is a 1950's example of what Dallas has done recently.  The Cincinnati Streetcar is like what Houston has built, but in a much more traditional and attractive cityscape. 

 

 

 

I was saying that the Rapid and the Streetcar weren't very comparable in the beginning.  And I completely agree, from my experience, stations shouldn't stray much farther than 2000 feet.  I believe in putting the Streetcar anywhere Cincinnati has a partially defunct commercial district and running it along the City's major arteries like Montgomery where the neighborhoods would thrive from that kind of access, not just localized economic uptick, which of course feeds the uptick.  It's as close to perpetual motion as a city can get.

 

 

Montgomery road? That's further away than the original length of the new street car.

Shaker Heights isn't in the City and Shaker Square is at the edge of the city limits.  The Eastside suffers because the Red Line isn't sufficent service for such a broad area.  I don't sense progress when examining the rate of commercial investment per square mile in Cleveland.  The bulk of the real estate between downtown & U Circle and U Circle and Shaker isn't being stimulated.  Not the best example on how to repopulate Cincinnati's core.

 

Is the value of a TOD somehow less because it doesn't occur in the mother city? And Shaker Square gets a pass because it's too close to Shaker Heights? I think you've placed some strange, arbitrary conditions for some unknown reasons. And considering the lack of progress in station-area development citywide for so many decades until very recently, the developments I cited (and others I did not) are all the more stunning especially since they were started shortly before the Great Recession and continued unabated through it. If anything, they are accelerating, especially in the University Circle area. Or is that too close to the edge of the mother city to be counted either?

 

EDIT: I encourage a visit -- I'll even offer a guided tour.

 

Let me pull the Tim Tebow apology - I like the guy (Cleveland), I just don't agree with the way they're arriving at some of their conclusions.  I'm sure comparing Cleveland to Tebow is only gonna get me in hotter water, but let me start.

 

It's not that I don't want Shaker to flourish as possibly Ohio's best burb, it's that the behemoth of Cleveland is sitting there waiting, and waiting, and waiting...I have to think repopulating the City takes precedent over building on what's already rich in assets.  Nothing wrong with improvements, maintaining pace is critical, but I'd like to see some transit-minded development on the Eastside that would naturally promote proper infill for an urban city in that area specifically.  Cleveland gets the bulk of Ohio's transit dollars, and has the most pull in Columbus for obvious reasons there.  A new line (which you've mentioned should happen) is a more prudent way of reviving and building for the City's future.

Montgomery road? That's further away than the original length of the new street car.

In the future I feel it's a good idea to add to the street presence of Norwood and Evanston in particular.  I'm all for the Wasson Line being utilized, but I can see Streetcars making the central-Eastside a very attractive part of town for everyone, especially young people.

Its been quiet, way too quiet, from people like Chris Smitherman, Luken, Miller, Finney, and 700wlw....

 

They are plotting something.  It may end up being a bright pink fanny pack full of Nati Light while listening to S Club 7 sleepover but they are up to something. 

Montgomery road? That's further away than the original length of the new street car.

In the future I feel it's a good idea to add to the street presence of Norwood and Evanston in particular.  I'm all for the Wasson Line being utilized, but I can see Streetcars making the central-Eastside a very attractive part of town for everyone, especially young people.

  If I remember correctly, didn't the 2002 "Metro Moves" (or whatever it was called) trace a route from Blue Ash down that old rail line that crosses Montgomery Rd. in Silverton, then head the route south down Montgomery through both Pleasant Ridge and Norwood, then heading it SW towards XU (and UC)?  Or am I mixing up projected routes?

It would have been on Montgomery/Gilbert south of XU.  The rail ROW would have been used between XU and Blue Ash. 

 

The earlier I-71 OKI light rail study from 1998~ would have used another mile of the CL&N ROW between XU and Martin Luther King Drive, then run on the surface of MLK and Jefferson, then through a tunnel from Jefferson & Corry to Main St. near Rothenberg School in Over-the-Rhine.