Then rail transit in Cincinnati has no future as long as Chabot's party has a majority in the House.

 

I've always been a conservative and have usually favored Republicans over Democrats, but you're probably correct.  I guess it's a Democratic straight-ticket for me this year.

^Sounds like the best option is to flood your Congressman's mailbox with letters regarding this issue.

 

There has got to be some legal way to counter this.  What's to stop him next time if COAST complains about another project and then Chabot refuses federal funds for the city with another amendment?  There has got to be legal ways to counter politicians going after public projects approved by their constituents. 

 

Any lawyers out there? 

Ok thinking ahead. If Chabot stay in office 10 years or so. The streetcar is still only in the loop phase. It needs the uptown phase to get more people on the system. So you telling me Chabot all by himself wasted 20 million dollars because of the money already spent on the streetcar if they choose to postpone phase 1? I can't see a reason why the city would go forward if there is a permanent block ahead. It my be time for the city to bring lawsuits for going against the people of the city..

A petition at the local or even statewide level has no bearing on federal legislation. Cincinnati has the following options:

 

1) Unseat Chabot (unlikely, given that his district was gerrymandered to guarantee him a House seat for life). Only possibility is after the next census when congressional districts are redrawn, assuming there's a less reactionary legislature in Ohio at that time.

 

2) Work for a Democratic majority in the House, and make sure future such amendments from Chabot are defeated. (Possible, but this will be greatly dependent on national voting trends, which Cincinnati has zero influence over.)

 

3) Get the freight railroads, Chamber of Commerce, 3CDC, etc. to lean on Chabot. Probably the most likely possibility, but he could always re-word future amendments to exclude funding only for passenger rail, or for streetcars, etc. Then you get into the same issues of semantics as COAST had to do in their two ballot initiatives.

 

4) Fund rail expansion only with local funds (good luck with that), or rely on federal sources that fall outside the jurisdiction of the transportation bill (I don't know of any specific examples).

Alternatively, the bar on funding at the state level could be undone at some point--maybe by electing democrats, or less fervently anti-streetcar republicans.

 

I do think that once the initial system is built, it will become much less of an issue to expand the thing.

 

EDIT: by which I mean there will be less of an impetus for Chabot/others to insert lines like this into bills. But I'm not optimistic about unseating Chabot, given the gerrymandering.

Maybe someone with a legal background can chime in on what a "fixed guideway project" means at a federal level. Is there a USDOT definition that is relevant here?

A petition at the local or even statewide level has no bearing on federal legislation. Cincinnati has the following options:

 

1) Unseat Chabot (unlikely, given that his district was gerrymandered to guarantee him a House seat for life). Only possibility is after the next census when congressional districts are redrawn, assuming there's a less reactionary legislature in Ohio at that time.

 

2) Work for a Democratic majority in the House, and make sure future such amendments from Chabot are defeated. (Possible, but this will be greatly dependent on national voting trends, which Cincinnati has zero influence over.)

 

3) Get the freight railroads, Chamber of Commerce, 3CDC, etc. to lean on Chabot. Probably the most likely possibility, but he could always re-word future amendments to exclude funding only for passenger rail, or for streetcars, etc. Then you get into the same issues of semantics as COAST had to do in their two ballot initiatives.

 

4) Fund rail expansion only with local funds (good luck with that), or rely on federal sources that fall outside the jurisdiction of the transportation bill (I don't know of any specific examples).

 

There has got to be other examples of this in the US.  He is clearly acting against the interests of the city as evidenced by 2 direct votes.  There has got to be legal ways to counter 1 elected official from derailing projects the people have approved with their votes. 

Maybe someone with a legal background can chime in on what a "fixed guideway project" means at a federal level. Is there a USDOT definition that is relevant here?

 

A "fixed guideway" refers to any transit service that uses exclusive or controlled rights-of-way or rails, entirely or in part. The term includes heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail, monorail, trolleybus, aerial tramway, inclined plane, cable car, automated guideway transit, ferryboats, that portion of motor bus service operated on exclusive or controlled rights-of-way, and high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/grants/13093_3558.html

I'll repeat, if signed into law, this does not stop Cincinnati from buying more streetcars or laying more track.  It just means that Cincinnati will have to pay for improvements entirely by itself, now that both the state of Ohio and the federal government are prohibiting any spending on rail in Cincinnati, and the county not just not providing any funding, but actively attacking the project. 

 

New York City is currently building the #7 extention without having gone through the federal process to seek matching funds.  They are buidling it primarily out of the budget of the City of New York. 

 

 

The most optimistic scenario might be that the freight railroads are now also barred for receiving federal funding for upgrades to their infrastrucutre within Cincinnati, which includes the massive Norfolk Southern and CSX yards in the Mill Creek Valley. When they realize this, I'd expect them to put in some angry calls to Chabot's office.

The good news for other cities (but even worse news for Cincinnati) is that this same bill also includes the America Fast Forward provision, which streamlines the process for cities to borrow federal money for rail transit projects. This provision is largely the work of Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who is an active rail advocate, and wants to build out LA's 30-year rail master plan within 10 years. Other cities are no doubt licking their chops as well. This is good news for other cities and for the nation in general, but for Cincinnati it means that it will continue to fall further behind in terms of its passenger rail infrastructure.

 

If Metro Moves had passed in 2002, Cincinnati would now be able utilize America Fast Forward to build out the remainder of the light rail system in a fraction of the time as the original 30-year plan, at a much lower cost. But that ship has sailed.

 

Moral of the story: elections matter.

Much of the opposition to Issues 9 & 48 came from light rail supporters who realizes that the ballot issues would kill all forms of rail transit, not just the streetcar. We need to get the light rail, BRT, and commuter rail supporters to understand that the amendment would also ban federal funding for those forms of rail. Unfortunately, I saw an extremely inaccurate report on Fox19 last night that only mentioned the streetcar. Do these reporters seriously not understand the larger consequences of this amendment?

Airport issues, rail issues, transportation issues in the area is insane. Local leaders are not helping. They want big businesses to leave. I hope some do to give them a wake up call.

Much of the opposition to Issues 9 & 48 came from light rail supporters who realizes that the ballot issues would kill all forms of rail transit, not just the streetcar. We need to get the light rail, BRT, and commuter rail supporters to understand that the amendment would also ban federal funding for those forms of rail. Unfortunately, I saw an extremely inaccurate report on Fox19 last night that only mentioned the streetcar. Do these reporters seriously not understand the larger consequences of this amendment?

 

EXACTLY.

Cincinnati selling additional bonds and paying for it ourselves is the best hope for completion of Phase II. Chabot isn't going anywhere, redistricting ensured that.

The most optimistic scenario might be that the freight railroads are now also barred for receiving federal funding for upgrades to their infrastrucutre within Cincinnati, which includes the massive Norfolk Southern and CSX yards in the Mill Creek Valley. When they realize this, I'd expect them to put in some angry calls to Chabot's office.

 

They already know it. ;) Whether they believe it is truly a threat remains to be seen. Here's some examples of how broadly this can be interpreted......

 

+ If OKI wants to do corridor planning in the next two years and wants to include railroads, high-occupancy vehicle lanes on interstates, busways and even ferry boats along the Ohio River, it cannot spend federal money do this.

 

+ If ODOT wants more federal money for the Brent Spence Bridge or the MLK Interchange and includes an HOV lane, it may not be spent. I'm even wondering if a bridge over or under a railroad right of way for either of those Chabot-loved projects is permissable.

 

+ If the City of Cincinnati or a railroad wants to add or improve flashers and gates at a road crossing, it may not use federal highway funds for the next two years programmed for that purpose and funneled through ODOT and the Ohio Rail Development Commission.

 

+ If a slope or bridge along the busy railroad lines in the Mill Creek valley washes out during a flood and emergency FRA money is needed to reopen the line, it may not be used for the next two years.

 

+ Amtrak may not be able to operate through the City of Cincinnati for the next two years.

 

These are some examples right off the top of my head. His name isn't Chabot. It's Shotgun. Because that's the approach he just used. 

Essentially Chabot took it upon himself to pass the exact same ballot initiative that voters rejected twice

 

The voters spoke clearly the didn't want laws that inhibited the option for rail. Chabot took it upon himself to effectively kill all rail inside city limits. This is almost identical to the two ballot iniatives rejected

 

That needs to be made public to every local media outlet immediately so there is outrage

 

Chabot directly went against the will of voters

Just added another item in the above list of possible "can't do's".....

exactly! he has shown that he does not honor or care about the democratic process, the key part of this process being the vote of the public, he only cares about your votes if you're voting for him!

A petition at the local or even statewide level has no bearing on federal legislation. Cincinnati has the following options:

 

1) Unseat Chabot (unlikely, given that his district was gerrymandered to guarantee him a House seat for life). Only possibility is after the next census when congressional districts are redrawn, assuming there's a less reactionary legislature in Ohio at that time.

 

2) Work for a Democratic majority in the House, and make sure future such amendments from Chabot are defeated. (Possible, but this will be greatly dependent on national voting trends, which Cincinnati has zero influence over.)

 

3) Get the freight railroads, Chamber of Commerce, 3CDC, etc. to lean on Chabot. Probably the most likely possibility, but he could always re-word future amendments to exclude funding only for passenger rail, or for streetcars, etc. Then you get into the same issues of semantics as COAST had to do in their two ballot initiatives.

 

4) Fund rail expansion only with local funds (good luck with that), or rely on federal sources that fall outside the jurisdiction of the transportation bill (I don't know of any specific examples).

 

Go to this site and sign the petition to take the redistricting process out of the hands of the politicians.

 

http://votersfirstohio.com/who-we-are/

There has got to be other examples of this in the US.  He is clearly acting against the interests of the city as evidenced by 2 direct votes.  There has got to be legal ways to counter 1 elected official from derailing projects the people have approved with their votes.

 

Isn't the brent spence bridge a fixed guideway?

 

I mean they are talking about tolls on the bridge. That makes the bridge controlled access.

 

A "fixed guideway" refers to any transit service that uses exclusive or controlled rights-of-way or rails, entirely or in part. The term includes heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail, monorail, trolleybus, aerial tramway, inclined plane, cable car, automated guideway transit, ferryboats, that portion of motor bus service operated on exclusive or controlled rights-of-way, and high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes.

 

Congress approves transportation, student loans bill

WASHINGTON | Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:16pm EDT

 

(Reuters) - A bipartisan bill to fund a massive job-creating transportation bill, renew low-interest rates for student loans and provide flood insurance won final congressional approval on Friday, clearing the way for President Barack Obama to sign it into law.

 

The House of Representatives and Senate passed the measure before heading off for a week-long holiday recess.

 

So, is that it?  It passed with the amendment in tact?

Congress approves transportation, student loans bill

WASHINGTON | Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:16pm EDT

 

(Reuters) - A bipartisan bill to fund a massive job-creating transportation bill, renew low-interest rates for student loans and provide flood insurance won final congressional approval on Friday, clearing the way for President Barack Obama to sign it into law.

 

The House of Representatives and Senate passed the measure before heading off for a week-long holiday recess.

 

So, is that it?  It passed with the amendment in tact?

 

Yea he snuck it in as a favor to COAST and to rally his tea party base for nov.

 

The media needs to actually cover the all inclusive nature of this amendment and fast before its too late

Write to your senators.

Enquirer said they are looking into it. Well see

Chabot directly went against the will of voters

 

Chabot doesn't represent the voters of Cincinnati, and he couldn't care less about their will. His district is overwhelmingly suburban and rural, and he represents the will of those who host his fundraisers.

Write to your senators.

 

Unless the Act can be changed after the President's signature, the amendment is in it for the length of the bill.

 

The president will sign it. If he doesn't student loan interest will double and he will not be reelected. Does anyone know if the act can be edited after approval? I imagine there is SOME way of doing it... right?

 

:drunk:

No way Obama won't sign this bill. In addition to the student loan thing, the process of getting this bill through congress has been tedious and gueling, and Obama isn't going to torpedo a high-profile piece of legislation just to spare rail funding in one medium-sized Midwestern city.

 

Changing the bill would require additional legislation that is adopted by the House and Senate, reconciled in conference, passed by the House and Senate again, and signed by the President. If a viable Democrat can take over Jean Schmidt's seat this November, then that person might be able to introduce either stand-alone legislation to reverse the Chabot amendment, or an amendment to some other non-controversial (defense spending authorization? National Puppy Appreciation Day?) bill that would accomplish the same thing.

 

I invite input from those who have more expertise about the legislative process than I do.

Ah, sorry, I missed the part where the Senate passed it. Wow. This is way worse than I thought.

 

When does this go into effect? It seems like the Amtrak Cardinal will have to find a way to bypass the city.

The best bet of getting rid of it is probably to get Sherrod Brown to do the same trick in reverse, on any random bill.

The best bet of getting rid of it is probably to get Sherrod Brown to do the same trick in reverse, on any random bill.

 

Agreed.

Enquirer is officially looking into it.  I sent them KJP's All Aboard Ohio link. 

Ah, sorry, I missed the part where the Senate passed it. Wow. This is way worse than I thought.

 

When does this go into effect? It seems like the Amtrak Cardinal will have to find a way to bypass the city.

 

Legislative intent matters to the interpretation of provisions of a bill. Statements by Chabot saying "this bans new funding for the streetcar" are worth pointing out here, in the unlikely event that COAST or others try to shut down Amtrak or something.

This is an unprecedentedly dirty way of doing politics. Think about how many local issues could be federally regulated in this manner. If this is the new normal, normal is now fullblown chaos.

This is an unprecedentedly dirty way of doing politics. Think about how many local issues could be federally regulated in this manner. If this is the new normal, normal is now fullblown chaos.

 

BINGO!

I can only say wow...Proud to be an American...sheesh

Politics ain't beanbag. This is the way it's always been. Hats off to COAST for knowing how to play the system. Our allies in government need to be every bit as slimy and ruthless.

Has anyone confirmed the amendment made it through the conference report?  I can't seem to find 'Cincinnati' anywhere in the language of the bill as reported on the Library of Congress' site.  Nor do I see mention in the conference report, which is denser than lead.  This may all well be premature.

Has anyone confirmed the amendment made it through the conference report?  I can't seem to find 'Cincinnati' anywhere in the language of the bill as reported on the Library of Congress' site.  Nor do I see mention in the conference report, which is denser than lead.  This may all well be premature.

 

We may not have the entire, final bill available for viewing until next week. If it's a huge bill, it sometimes takes days before it's posted and available.

Isn't the brent spence bridge a fixed guideway?

 

I mean they are talking about tolls on the bridge. That makes the bridge controlled access.

 

A "fixed guideway" refers to any transit service that uses exclusive or controlled rights-of-way or rails, entirely or in part. The term includes heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail, monorail, trolleybus, aerial tramway, inclined plane, cable car, automated guideway transit, ferryboats, that portion of motor bus service operated on exclusive or controlled rights-of-way, and high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes.

 

 

That language is describing transit services and not controlled rights-of-way on it's own, so no.

 

 

Politics ain't beanbag. This is the way it's always been. Hats off to COAST for knowing how to play the system. Our allies in government need to be every bit as slimy and ruthless.

You have a seriously f*cked up view of society.

I'm not saying it's right; I'm saying that's the way it is. Almost every major infrastructure project in the country has had one or more politicians willing to go to the mat, twist every arm, call in every favor, and cut any backroom deal to make it happen. To pretend otherwise is increadibly naive.

^ I agree with David. From many years of watching this across the country, my sense is that guys like Chabot almost always end up being used and discredited. These projects are always successful, and so people stop trusting what the opponents are saying. They never advance to higher office.

 

With this amendment, Chabot is happily using Federal policy to interfere with the settled law of a local jurisdiction.  Even people who hate the streetcar ought to hate this. This will come back to bite him.

^ I agree with David. From many years of watching this across the country, my sense is that guys like Chabot almost always end up being used and discredited. These projects are always successful, and so people stop trusting what the opponents are saying. They never advance to higher office.

 

With this amendment, Chabot is happily using Federal policy to interfere with the settled law of a local jurisdiction.  Even people who hate the streetcar ought to hate this. This will come back to bite him.

 

I'd like this think Karma will get him but 1) Kasich gerrymandered his district and 2) The local media refuses to call Chabot out for what he is

 

The question remains:  If its this easy for one man with a combover to block, postpone, and kill an entire streetcar extension project nearly a decade in the making, why didn't he just sneak in the amendment last year before construction? 

^ The Surface Transportation Bill only comes up for renewal once every few years, and the version that passed today has been in negotiations for nearly three years. Last time the full bill was up for renewal, Driehaus was in congress and not Chabot.

^ I agree with David. From many years of watching this across the country, my sense is that guys like Chabot almost always end up being used and discredited. These projects are always successful, and so people stop trusting what the opponents are saying. They never advance to higher office.

 

With this amendment, Chabot is happily using Federal policy to interfere with the settled law of a local jurisdiction.  Even people who hate the streetcar ought to hate this. This will come back to bite him.

 

Doesn't sound like you are agreeing with David. If Chabot is going to have egg on his face anyway, why stoop to his level?

^ I hate to break it to you, but that's how the game is played. If our guys don't do it, their guys almost certainly will. And "their guys" not only refers to teabaggers like Chabot, but transit-friendly representatives from other cities who are competing against Cincinnati for scarce federal money for their own pet projects.

 

Nice guys who take the high road usually find themselves seeking new jobs after their first term. Just ask Steve Driehaus.

In my mind, a "fixed guideway" is any route where the vehicles are confined to a track, but not necessarily on rails. Any kind of railroad, monorail,  an aerial tram, a ferry that operates on wires, or a wiremobile is a guideway. A rubber-tired train, such as the Paris metro, is a fixed guideway. An elevator is a guideway. Trolley bus routes are not fixed guideways, because the vehicle must be steered by an operator. Bus rapid transit is not a fixed guideway, because it must be steered.

 

Now that I've said that, the FRA says something different:

 

A "fixed guideway" refers to any transit service that uses exclusive or controlled rights-of-way or rails, entirely or in part. The term includes heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail, monorail, trolleybus, aerial tramway, inclined plane, cable car, automated guideway transit, ferryboats, that portion of motor bus service operated on exclusive or controlled rights-of-way, and high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lanes.

 

I can't see how an HOV lane or non-fixed ferryboat could be called a 'guideway," but that's what the FRA says.

 

According to the FRA definition, only transit services are classified as fixed guideways. Freight railroads are not fixed guideways. So, ths apparently doesn't affect freight operations of CSX, NS, or IORY. 

 

I don't know about Amtrak, but I've never heard Amtrak described as "transit," though the FRA definition does include heavy rail. I could see refusing to build a new Amtrak station or something, but disallowing Amtrak to pass through the City of Cincinnati is just ridiculous. I bet the good people at Amtrak won't know about Chabot's Cincinnati restriction, unless someone points it out to them. It might prohibit funding for the proposed 3-C line in Cincinnati, depending on how the word "transit" is interpreted.

 

But the FRA definition clearly would prohibit federal funding for a potential streetcar extension, OASIS line, subway, aerial tram to Mt. Adams, Dayton-style trolleybus, bus rapid transit, I-75 light rail, a CVG-style cable car, and even HOV lanes. 

 

As Jake said twice already, this effort would not prohibit construction and operation of any of these things by the City of Cincinnati or any private owner; it just prohibits federal funding from being used.

^ I hate to break it to you, but that's how the game is played.

 

Politics is absolutely dirty, and not necessarily rational. Cost-benefit studies and the like may not even matter. On the surface, Chabot's actions seem absolutely idiotic, because they exclude Cincinnati from receiving funds. The same goes for Kasich's refusal of 3-C funds. Yet, I'm sure they had a reason for their actions.

 

I haven't met one single person outside of UO who was in favor of the streetcar. I've met many, many people strictly opposed to it. I realize that this board has some very strong supporters, but I have to wonder if those supporters even realize how much disdain for this project exists outside of the core. Clearly, Chabot is trying to stay on the winning side.

 

"Politics makes me sick" - William Howard Taft

 

 

 

 

^ You got your wish for suburbanites to be heard.