An economist, Todd Litman, has written a couple of critiques of the claims of O'Toole and others.

 

For example:

 

"This report evaluates criticism of rail transit systems. It examines claims that rail transit is ineffective at increasing public transit ridership and improving transportation system performance, that rail transit investments are not cost effective, and that transit is an outdated form of transportation. It finds that critics often misrepresent issues and use biased and inaccurate analysis."

 

SEE: http://vtpi.org/railcrit.pdf

 

And this:

 

"This study evaluates rail transit benefits based on a comprehensive analysis of

transportation system performance in major U.S. cities. It finds that cities with large, well established rail systems have significantly higher per capita transit ridership, lower

average per capita vehicle ownership and annual mileage, less traffic congestion, lower

traffic death rates, lower consumer expenditures on transportation, and higher transit

service cost recovery than otherwise comparable cities with less or no rail transit service.

This indicates that rail transit systems provide economic, social and environmental

benefits, and these benefits tend to increase as a system expands and matures. This

report discusses best practices for evaluating transit benefits. It examines criticisms of

rail transit investments, finding that many are based on inaccurate analysis."

 

SEE: http://www.vtpi.org/railben.pdf

 

For years, Randal O'Toole has traveled around the United States, appearing in cities that are considering rail systems. Who pays him to do this?

 

For example, he's recently been in San Antonio ...

 

"O'Toole believes residents and businesses long ago abandoned downtown for a reason, so money shouldn't be wasted trying to revive it; he writes a blog called the Antiplanner. San Antonio, he said, 'is a modern city, and it doesn't need a downtown.' ”

 

SEE: http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Streetcar-opponents-reopen-debate-with-VIA-4073905.php

 

And he's weighed-in on Anaheim's streetcar plan ...

 

"Streetcars are just plain inferior to buses in every possible way."

 

SEE: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/streetcar-381281-bus-city.html

 

And Fort Lauderdale's ...

 

"A report recently written by O'Toole called The Great Streetcar Conspiracy argues that streetcars, monorails, light rails, and whatever else you want to call them are an elaborate ruse concocted by engineering firms, contractors, and elected officials to bilk billions in tax dollars."

 

SEE: http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2012/07/plans_for_fort_lauderdale_stre.php

 

O'Toole doesn't have much use for cities ...

 

"I would never step into another city again if I didn’t have to as a part of my work."

 

SEE: http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=5663

 

And O'Toole must really, really hate trains ...

 

"It helped that somebody bombed a train in Spain."

 

SEE: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2011/03/off_the_rails.html

 

I would also add that O'Toole never goes to places that already have rail -- Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Denver, places like that. Those people know better.

Yeah Kyle it's called a hit piece written by somebody paid by a think tank or other lobbying organization.  Which means it's intentionally deceptive.  There's a formula to writing those types of articles and a formula in disseminating them. 

Yeah Kyle it's called a hit piece written by somebody paid by a think tank or other lobbying organization.  Which means it's intentionally deceptive.  There's a formula to writing those types of articles and a formula in disseminating them. 

 

I didn't get that feeling at all. The writer Sam Scheib runs a transit website, all kinds of articles and blogs on mass transit, rail, bus lines, of varying opinions.

http://www.tripplannermag.com/index.php/category/transit-supportive-content/

That article more or less echoes my comments about Tampa's system. It's a tourist system pure and simple. It also has low performance, low capacity vehicles and is single tracked. Portland, Tacoma, Seattle would all be better comparisons to our system.

The meat and potatoes that I found interesting was,

 

"Downtown boosterism has worked best in places like Madison, Charlottesville, Burlington, Boulder, and Morgantown. These are college towns, where young, relatively active people are accustomed to walking around universities that serve as second downtowns.

 

College towns are ideal for public transit because they follow the original purpose of moving people from nearby suburbs to the CBD. Students tend to live in clustered housing near the university, their primary destination. Of the 30 most transit-efficient cities in the U.S. (defined by the number of passenger trips per mile of transit service provided), 16 are college towns such as Athens, Iowa City, Chapel Hill, and Ann Arbor. The other 14 are mainly large, dense cities with excellent rail transport such as San Francisco, Boston, Los Angeles, New York, and Washington, D.C. (all of which also have significant student populations, though not the 25 percent threshold I use to classify college towns).

 

The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people. Athens, Gainesville, Norman, and Bloomington are ideal for this type of alignment (as is Lansing, which has opted to build a bus rapid transit system). We already have models for how to do this. Three systems in France provide exactly this kind of service: LeMans, Orleans, and Reims carry between 35,000 and 48,000 trips daily on systems that have between 6.9 and 11.2 miles of track. These streetcars—called tramways there—not only serve universities and downtowns but also take advantage of the tram’s small footprint by wending between buildings, using rights of way that are useless to larger mass transit vehicles or automobiles"

So the suggestion is that streetcar systems should be built only in college towns? 

 

Have you been to Athens?  do you think they (or Iowa City or Chapel Hill or whatever college town you plan to name) have $100M plus just lying around for large infrastructure projects?

 

That's a heckuva way to spin it. That's like saying "Cincinnati companies that have thrived downtown have generally been those founded before 1950 (such as P&G, Fifth Third, and Kroger).  Therefore, new companies should not locate downtown." 

So the suggestion is that streetcar systems should be built only in college towns? 

 

Have you been to Athens?  do you think they (or Iowa City or Chapel Hill or whatever college town you plan to name) have $100M plus just lying around for large infrastructure projects?

 

That's a heckuva way to spin it. That's like saying "Cincinnati companies that have thrived downtown have generally been those founded before 1950 (such as P&G, Fifth Third, and Kroger).  Therefore, new companies should not locate downtown." 

 

Athens Georgia, not Ohio.

 

Again

"The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people"

 

In other words OTR-downtown should be connected to both campuses at UC from day 1.

The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people.

 

What's the combined population of downtown and uptown? Might be about 100k.

The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people.

 

What's the combined population of downtown and uptown? Might be about 100k.

 

I bet your guess is pretty darn accurate. Edit

 

City website says about 70,000. Not sure how well they track students who reside in the areas near Campus though.

^ After checking around today, I'm confident that streetcar construction will commence this spring.

The highest and best use for a streetcar system is to connect dense student housing, a university, a functioning downtown, and a regional shopping venue, hospital, or other large attractor in a community of around 100,000 people.

 

Dense student housing - Clifton and the areas surrounding UC after the streetcar goes up the hill.

A University - The University of Cincinnati in phase 2

A functioning downtown - First phase circulates all over Cincinnati's downtown, which has made a huge comeback and is active on both weekends and weeknights, especially when the weather is good.

A regional shopping venue - Macy's downtown, Tiffany's, Findlay Market, numerous speciality shops in OTR (ever been to OTR on Final Friday? It's packed!), several other downtown shopping destinations.

A hospital - University Hospital area near UC

Other large attractors - Zoo, Great American Ballpark, Fountain Square, US Bank Arena, Paul Brown Stadium, Riverfront Park

Population around 100,000 - Cincinnati has a population over 300,000 and a metro area of over 2 million.

 

Seems like your posted criteria suits Cincinnati just fine.

^ agreed. I'm not sure what that post was supposed to mean.

 

Kyle, what neighborhood do you reside in?

Looks like Milwaukee's system is opening next year. I wonder how they got enough federal funds to fund almost the entire project, but Cincinnati only got 25 million? They have had their issues with utilities as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/23/milwaukee-streetcar-on-pace-for-2014.html

^^ I think his point was exactly that the description was suitable. He found it interesting that an article skeptical of streetcars (which it seems like he is, too) described the Cincinnati streetcar as being essentially ideal.

 

Edit: Furthermore, I think he found it somewhere between annoying and humorous (and possibly satisfactory as it was probably what he predicted would happen) that an article which would seem to support the streetcar was dismissed out of hand by supporters on this board.

 

I admit I dismissed it. Without reading it. And I basically still do, and I still haven't read it. But that little nugget is interesting.

Milwuakee a system is starting construction next year.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130125/NEWS/301250050/EXCLUSIVE-Battle-rages-heart-local-NAACP?nclick_check=1

 

 

Hmm, so this is why Smitherman is against the streetcar.

 

Under Smitherman, the local NAACP opposes the streetcar planned for Downtown and Over-the-Rhine because it does not address the transportation problems faced by many African-Americans who need to be connected to job centers and shopping.

Looks like Milwaukee's system is opening next year. I wonder how they got enough federal funds to fund almost the entire project, but Cincinnati only got 25 million? They have had their issues with utilities as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/23/milwaukee-streetcar-on-pace-for-2014.html

 

Milwaukee region received a 100 million or so Federal grant to build light rail many years ago, maybe more than ten. The county, led by now-governor Scott-Walker, opposed using the grant for rail and held up any work on the project. Meanwhile the city wanted rail, and so the grant just sat in limbo all that time. Finally, the threat of a suit against Walker, who was aiming for governor, caused the county and city to split the money. County is buying more buses for suburban routes, and the remaining $50 million or so is going toward the streetcar.

 

They're having problems with two utilities, and I think the state utilities commission is about ready to rule on who pays what. Sounds like the staff will recommend splitting the cost between city and ulilities.

 

So the city/county schism exsits not only in Cincinnati.

En regards to the smitherman tea party alliance, there's only so much ego to go around and when they consistently lose like they have been they turn on each other.

 

Also when addressing coast, call them what They are...an ultra right fringe tea party group. The tea party is currently one of the least popular groups in the country.  If you haven't noticed, COAST hasn't referred to themselves as the tea party in a long time.  Why is that?  Americans have a single digit favorablity percentage of them.  Chlamydia is looked at more favorably than the Tea Party. 

 

Smitherman has been destroying the NAACP for years for his own personal gain. Finally people are stepping up and calling him out

The first comment on the smitherman article is a staunch defense by Alex Triantiflou. 

 

My have the times changed

The Enquirer is now scrubbing comments on the Smitherman Article and leaving Alex Triantiflou's...

 

 

^^ I think his point was exactly that the description was suitable. He found it interesting that an article skeptical of streetcars (which it seems like he is, too) described the Cincinnati streetcar as being essentially ideal.

 

Edit: Furthermore, I think he found it somewhere between annoying and humorous (and possibly satisfactory as it was probably what he predicted would happen) that an article which would seem to support the streetcar was dismissed out of hand by supporters on this board.

 

I admit I dismissed it. Without reading it. And I basically still do, and I still haven't read it. But that little nugget is interesting.

 

The writer of the article, who is a Transit guy, I think detailed where shorter line (3-9 mile loops) work well and make economic sense

^ agreed. I'm not sure what that post was supposed to mean.

 

Kyle, what neighborhood do you reside in?

 

Anderson Twp. Also own rental property that I renovated, Mt. Auburn. Lived in Clifton - Univ Heights - Walnut Hills from 85-98.

When I move back to the city it will be Mt. Auburn. (slight possibility of OTR).

Looks like Milwaukee's system is opening next year. I wonder how they got enough federal funds to fund almost the entire project, but Cincinnati only got 25 million? They have had their issues with utilities as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/23/milwaukee-streetcar-on-pace-for-2014.html

 

Milwaukee region received a 100 million or so Federal grant to build light rail many years ago, maybe more than ten. The county, led by now-governor Scott-Walker, opposed using the grant for rail and held up any work on the project. Meanwhile the city wanted rail, and so the grant just sat in limbo all that time. Finally, the threat of a suit against Walker, who was aiming for governor, caused the county and city to split the money. County is buying more buses for suburban routes, and the remaining $50 million or so is going toward the streetcar.

 

They're having problems with two utilities, and I think the state utilities commission is about ready to rule on who pays what. Sounds like the staff will recommend splitting the cost between city and ulilities.

 

So the city/county schism exsits not only in Cincinnati.

 

Trust me, it's worse in Milwaukee.  Waukesha County wants nothing to do with Milwaukee County...unless it needs fresh water from Lake Michigan.

 

The majority of the money Milwaukee was awarded for light rail was spent on the Marquette Interchange project.  It's a disaster.

Looks like Milwaukee's system is opening next year. I wonder how they got enough federal funds to fund almost the entire project, but Cincinnati only got 25 million? They have had their issues with utilities as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/23/milwaukee-streetcar-on-pace-for-2014.html

 

Milwaukee region received a 100 million or so Federal grant to build light rail many years ago, maybe more than ten. The county, led by now-governor Scott-Walker, opposed using the grant for rail and held up any work on the project. Meanwhile the city wanted rail, and so the grant just sat in limbo all that time. Finally, the threat of a suit against Walker, who was aiming for governor, caused the county and city to split the money. County is buying more buses for suburban routes, and the remaining $50 million or so is going toward the streetcar.

 

They're having problems with two utilities, and I think the state utilities commission is about ready to rule on who pays what. Sounds like the staff will recommend splitting the cost between city and ulilities.

 

So the city/county schism exsits not only in Cincinnati.

 

Trust me, it's worse in Milwaukee.  Waukesha County wants nothing to do with Milwaukee County...unless it needs fresh water from Lake Michigan.

 

The majority of the money Milwaukee was awarded for light rail was spent on the Marquette Interchange project.  It's a disaster.

 

What is their media like?  Does their paper toe the republican party line?  700wlw comparison?  Do they have a tea party group that compares the streetcar as "Worse than 9/11"?

Someone named Gary posted this in the Comments to the CityBeat article. Thought it was pretty good, especially the second graf:

 

"Cranley is the poster child of what's been wrong with this city for so long. The city's finally moving forward and great things are happening and Cranleny (no pun intended) wants to derail this progress.  Look at the reality.  If Cranley is elected and by the time he's sworn in, the streecar project will be well under way and most of the money spent. Don't expect the streetcar manufacturer, CAF, to give the city a full refund after the trains have been built or under construction because you've change your mind or expect other contractors to break those construction contracts. This isn't Best Buy after you had second thought about the big TV you just bought.  In the end, if Cranley gets his way, the city's not going to save much (if anything) and our city, once again, will start looking the Cincinnati of the past that screws everything up.

 

My other point is this.  I'm insulted by Cranley who thinks our vote doesn't matter.  It's insulting for politicians like him to tell me he knows what's better for the city than the majority of us who voted for this project (twice). The idea that we don't know what you're doing and he does is arrogant."

 

 

Looks like Milwaukee's system is opening next year. I wonder how they got enough federal funds to fund almost the entire project, but Cincinnati only got 25 million? They have had their issues with utilities as well.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2013/01/23/milwaukee-streetcar-on-pace-for-2014.html

 

Milwaukee region received a 100 million or so Federal grant to build light rail many years ago, maybe more than ten. The county, led by now-governor Scott-Walker, opposed using the grant for rail and held up any work on the project. Meanwhile the city wanted rail, and so the grant just sat in limbo all that time. Finally, the threat of a suit against Walker, who was aiming for governor, caused the county and city to split the money. County is buying more buses for suburban routes, and the remaining $50 million or so is going toward the streetcar.

 

They're having problems with two utilities, and I think the state utilities commission is about ready to rule on who pays what. Sounds like the staff will recommend splitting the cost between city and ulilities.

 

So the city/county schism exsits not only in Cincinnati.

 

Trust me, it's worse in Milwaukee.  Waukesha County wants nothing to do with Milwaukee County...unless it needs fresh water from Lake Michigan.

 

The majority of the money Milwaukee was awarded for light rail was spent on the Marquette Interchange project.  It's a disaster.

 

What is their media like?  Does their paper toe the republican party line?  700wlw comparison?  Do they have a tea party group that compares the streetcar as "Worse than 9/11"?

 

No, the Journal Sentinel is pretty model and potentially left-leaning.  The TV Media is sensationalist as always but doesn't seem to have an agenda.  Unfortunately the suburban radio crowd gets WLW syndicated, so all they ever hear about is Cincinnati.  I used to work at a coffee shop on the East Side of Milwaukee and when I'd tell people that I wanted to move to Cincinnati I'd often hear negative feedback like "downtown sounds really dangerous there" and "they're building that trolly folly there."  It was really frustrating.

 

Jesus, really? I never figured that people in Milwaukee were so "educated" about Cincinnati. WLW must be the gold standard of right-wing city hater radio.

Notice to proceed was given to CAF on Friday, commencing construction on the Cincinnati Streetcar fleet.

WLW has a HUGE following.  My grandma up in little old Wausau, WI listens to nothing but WLW and Fox News.  She calls me every other week to give me updates on Cincy....because she's worried about me living here. 

 

There's a LOT of construction happening on 12th St,  it seems more disruptive than the usual utility relocations... does anybody know what that's about?

 

 

"There's a LOT of construction happening on 12th St,  it seems more disruptive than the usual utility relocations... does anybody know what that's about?"

 

I noticed that on Thursday morning as well. There were Duke Energy crews working. They were running some tubing in at 12th and elm.

 

 

 

"There's a LOT of construction happening on 12th St,  it seems more disruptive than the usual utility relocations... does anybody know what that's about?"

 

I noticed that on Thursday morning as well. There were Duke Energy crews working. They were running some tubing in at 12th and elm.

 

 

^ Moving water mains. Dunno why Duke would be there except as a consequence of that.

 

Twelfth Street between Main and Elim is one of the most complicated zones for utility moves.

There's a huge amount of utility work taking place on 12th Street east of Main, but that's for a streetscaping project unrelated to the streetcar.

The Duke stuff on 12th is them putting the overhead wires underground. Amazingly, I think they're goin to have to move some of them once they start streetcar construction.

 

I'm going to say this agin, Duke still thinks the streetcar isn't going to happen.

"There's a LOT of construction happening on 12th St,  it seems more disruptive than the usual utility relocations... does anybody know what that's about?"

 

I noticed that on Thursday morning as well. There were Duke Energy crews working. They were running some tubing in at 12th and elm.

 

 

 

 

I thought some of that work was installing new natural gas lines as well?  I know for sure that's what they've been doing on Central Parkway, but I'm not as sure about 12th St. 

I'm going to say this agin, Duke still thinks the streetcar isn't going to happen.

 

And they will probably continue to think this until the streetcar has been up and running for several months...

 

If Duke stalls indefinitely, will all construction/utility relocation continue uninterrupted through the completion of the streetcar's first phase (The Banks to Findlay Market)? What about the second phase up Vine Street hill?

 

I'm hoping for a quick resolution to the Duke issue but in case that doesn't happen I would like to know how the streetcar project will be impacted.

Once a contract is signed the city would have legal standing to say dukes actions are preventing a contract from being executed. Still, the only way to prove that is to sue which would stop all progress immediately until the resolution of a lawsuit.

Once a contract is signed the city would have legal standing to say dukes actions are preventing a contract from being executed. Still, the only way to prove that is to sue which would stop all progress immediately until the resolution of a lawsuit.

 

That is not good news.

 

I'm hoping for a quick resolution to the Duke issue but in case that doesn't happen I would like to know how the streetcar project will be impacted.

 

It's been over a year.  There's no reason to believe that any resolution with Duke will be quick.  For whatever reasons, they have decided to hold out

 

 

^ You guys worry too much. These things get settled. Think Duke wants to be blamed for the project's not being completed by the All-Star Game?

 

Duke customers need to put on the pressure. The company is getting away with this BS without any apparent threat of repercussions.

 

They are really abusing their semi-monopolistic status. It's actually an interesting political/economic/business case study regarding the unique status of private utilities. They can throw political weight around with more impunity than your typical business in a capitalist society. Seems like the city might have been able to use leverage with the renewable energy aggregation deal, but then again that might not have been legal.

^ You guys worry too much. These things get settled. Think Duke wants to be blamed for the project's not being completed by the All-Star Game?

 

This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks, John.

So does Duke's position as power/gas provider come under review every so often or are they locked in indefinitely?

So does Duke's position as power/gas provider come under review every so often or are they locked in indefinitely?

 

I would think it would be difficult or impossible to seize their assets (infrastructure) and hand them off to someone else.

Kentuckians shouldn't have to pay for streetcar

"Just heard that Duke Energy wants to raise the electric rates by 24 percent and the gas rates by 18 percent, and this increase will also cover the Cincinnati streetcar."

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2013/01/28/kentuckians-shouldnt-have-to-pay-for-streetcar/

So does Duke's position as power/gas provider come under review every so often or are they locked in indefinitely?

 

The only real control over Duke is the rates they can charge customers for services, which are negotiated with PUCO. Even there, PUCO must permit Duke to recover investments in increased capacity, modernization, anti-pollution measures, etc. If they cannot agree the matter goes to the courts.

Kentuckians shouldn't have to pay for streetcar

"Just heard that Duke Energy wants to raise the electric rates by 24 percent and the gas rates by 18 percent, and this increase will also cover the Cincinnati streetcar."

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2013/01/28/kentuckians-shouldnt-have-to-pay-for-streetcar/

 

The referenced link is simply the publishing of a letter to the editor. There is nothing in it which confirms in any way the validity of what is said. Note it starts off with Just heard but no indication of heard where. I think you will find this is old news. Yes Duke did apply for a surcharge to area customer bills to pay for the streetcar utility relocation but that was shot down by PUCO real quick.

^ my point is that this is what people are hearing and believing.

^ I suspect COAST has been saying or implying this in the info it puts out. If so, once people find out it's not true, it's just one more milepost along the road of COAST's decline as a credible source.

Found this post under The New Enquirer cheerleading article on the Brent Spence Bridge.

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20130128/NEWS010801/301280019/Caught-middle

 

COAST

At least Governor Kasich isn't trying to shove the Cincinnati Streetcar Boondoggle down Kentuckians' throats like Mallory and Qualls want to do.

 

 

Sounds like that letter Quimbob linked is yet another fake LTE written by a COAST stooge

COAST is in full propaganda mode ala Joseph Goebbels on their blog and elsewhere on the net, insinuating that Duke's $130Million rate increase is solely due to the Streetcar.

Kentuckians shouldn't have to pay for streetcar

"Just heard that Duke Energy wants to raise the electric rates by 24 percent and the gas rates by 18 percent, and this increase will also cover the Cincinnati streetcar."

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2013/01/28/kentuckians-shouldnt-have-to-pay-for-streetcar/

 

Please use All Aboard Ohio's blog item to refute this.....

 

http://allaboardohio.org/