Smitherman  on cunningham today at 1230.

 

Vegas O/U how many lies/misrepresentations starts is 145

From my perspective, this is a PR nightmare. I don't have perspective from Portland, or Seattle, but I keep thinking: "Where is the leadership?" The PR/messaging/working together seems so mismanaged. It's easy to blame Duke, COAST, Smitherman for this project's constant fumblings. But when do we hold leadership accountable? I can't help but wonder what good leadership would do/have done for this project and if a lot of this bs could have been avoided if such was the case.

I just don't think the other cities had to deal with this kind of opposition. Not even the ones in NASCARland. Those Southern states and Texas are way more car-obsessed than Ohio yet they're capable of saying "Just let those city slickers do their thing; it isn't hurting anybody". But here it's "worse than 9/11" because the suburbanites are so terrified of their houses losing value among other things.

listened to some of the Smitherman interview....

 

funny how no real reasons are ever given and they just say "the city will go bankrupt" and is not proven with any numbers, or facts. Just repeating the word bankrupt 1,000,000 times and saying that the Mallory and Qualls are terrible.  And that no one will use the streetcar and it will just be for homeless people. 

 

Frustrating isn't the right word to describe this...

Does anybody think the bids are out of line?

Is Cincinnati really asking for the moon?

From my perspective, this is a PR nightmare. I don't have perspective from Portland, or Seattle, but I keep thinking: "Where is the leadership?" The PR/messaging/working together seems so mismanaged. It's easy to blame Duke, COAST, Smitherman for this project's constant fumblings. But when do we hold leadership accountable? I can't help but wonder what good leadership would do/have done for this project and if a lot of this bs could have been avoided if such was the case.

 

I have long felt the undoing of this project could occur because it has NO VOICE OF REASON in the mainstream media countering the brazen lies of the opposition.  Folks on UO are a microscopic speck of influence in relation to what the average citizen is exposed to regarding the streetcar.  I have had to continually re-educate friends and neighbors to maintain their support for this project.  However, all they see and hear is negative negative negative stuff, that even with my rational perspective is really wearing thin on them.  At this point, if Ditherman or Miller were to say so, I think most people are ready to believe that the Cincinnati Streetcar is responsible for the Russian Meteor today, and it MUST be stopped!

From my perspective, this is a PR nightmare. I don't have perspective from Portland, or Seattle, but I keep thinking: "Where is the leadership?" The PR/messaging/working together seems so mismanaged. It's easy to blame Duke, COAST, Smitherman for this project's constant fumblings. But when do we hold leadership accountable? I can't help but wonder what good leadership would do/have done for this project and if a lot of this bs could have been avoided if such was the case.

 

I have long felt the undoing of this project could occur because it has NO VOICE OF REASON in the mainstream media countering the brazen lies of the opposition.  Folks on UO are a microscopic speck of influence in relation to what the average citizen is exposed to regarding the streetcar.  I have had to continually re-educate friends and neighbors to maintain their support for this project.  However, all they see and hear is negative negative negative stuff, that even with my rational perspective is really wearing thin on them.  At this point, if Ditherman or Miller were to say so, I think most people are ready to believe that the Cincinnati Streetcar is responsible for the Russian Meteor today, and it MUST be stopped!

 

I highly doubt Smitherman or Miller even know about the Russian meteor. They are so foaming-at-the-mouth obsessed with the single-issue streetcar - and only the streetcar - that they don't strike me as too aware of anything else. Smitherman has done absolutely ZERO for this city since he's been elected. He spends all his time on the radio trashing the city - not exactly the ideal job for a city councilmember.

Out of curiosity, I ran some hypothetical household budgets based on salary figures and expenses I could reasonably expect to have in Cincinnati, New York, London, and Los Angeles.

 

You and I must be similar people then haha. I literally did the exact same thing this past summer when I was offered a job after grad school at the firm I was working at in Hyde Park. Like you, New York came out ahead of Cincinnati based on what I could expect to be paid there with a masters of architecture and what I know I'd get paid here if I was forced to buy a car which is unfortunately very much still necessary in this city. It's amazing how much owning and operating a car draws from your bank account.

 

This is so odd to me.  I've lived car free in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Cincinnati...and Cincinnati is BY FAR the easiest to live in without a car.  It's easy to live anywhere in Uptown, Downtown, and to a lesser extent Northside without a car.  Metro is frequent and connects all major nodes, Zipcar makes getting to the suburbs occasionally possible, and best of all there are many grocery options that are easily accessible.  I think people fail to factor in scale when comparing cities.  They say "It's easy to take transit between Lakeview and the Loop in Chicago."  My response is, "It's easy to take transit from Downtown to Northside in Cincinnati."  People then argue that it's not easy to get to Rookwood to go shopping...well it's not exactly easy to  get to Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg either.  I love my car free life here.  Could it be better?  Absolutely.  Is it necessary to own a car here.  Absolutely not.

This is so odd to me.  I've lived car free in Milwaukee, Chicago, and Cincinnati...and Cincinnati is BY FAR the easiest to live in without a car.  It's easy to live anywhere in Uptown, Downtown, and to a lesser extent Northside without a car.

 

The problem is when you try to go anywhere besides Uptown, Downtown, or Northside. The rest of the region is essentially off-limits unless you're willing to make multiple transfers and/or stand at a bus stop in the rain for 30 minutes. Metro does the best they can with the limited resources they have available, but there's no comparison between Metro's bus service and an extensive rail system. Chicago's rail transit system is pathetically inadequate for a city of that size, but far more of the city is easily accessible via public transit than in Cincinnati. Unlike Cincinnati, major shopping districts like North Michigan Avenue, the Clybourn Corridor, the South Loop, and many neighborhood business districts that contain high-quality urban grocery stores are accessible via rail transit in Chicago. And none of those cities can begin to compare with NYC, where almost the entire city (save for Staten Island and some more remote areas of Queens) are accessible with frequent, 24-hour subway service that usually includes express and local routes.

I attended the bid opening that took place a week ago and have been asking around and learning more since then.

 

Here's what happened: I entered a large conference room in the city's purchasing department and took a seat in the back row. There were maybe three dozen men and women there, generally contractor-types. An earnest city employee walks in with a big box and opens it. He announces what the bidding is for and starts opening a bunch of FedEx-type packages. Contractors were able to bid on the entire job, or they could bid on one of its five divisions.

 

The reader, for lack of a better word, opened the first envelope. He confirmed that is was in good order ... "ABC Contractor has a bond, the form is correct, etc." When either the first or second bid was read aloud, a woman seated near the front said something like, "We didn't bid on that." Everyone laughed. Another couple of bids were opened that may have been disqualified because they were only submitted in electronic form. The "number" was not printed on the form as the city requires. Which seems reasonable to me. I mean, if you're going to read bids publicly, you need to have something to read. Anyway, whether these contractors' bids were eventually honored, I dunno.

 

The three GC's who submitted bids each had an assignment clause under which they each agreed to charge the city a markup of 5% on any subcontractors which had independent low bids, which the city has the right to assign to the GC as substitutes for the sub the GC originally teamed with.

 

it may be the case that for some major items, perhaps signals and electric gear, that only one sub bid. If so, this is a market failure.

 

What I'm hearing is that if you look at the lowest prices in each component division and add them all up, you get very close to what the city has estimated. So there is a path forward.

 

My take is that this was a failed bid process. Here's why: something like 80 companies downloaded the bid package from the city's web site, so there was quite a bit of initial interest in the project. But only three GC's bid on it. Which means to me that there was something in the bid package or in the nature of the job that caused fewer companies to bid and bid aggressively. I've heard some reasonable guesses as to why so many bidders didn't bid. But I'm not going to speculate.

 

I suspect the job seems risky to large, out-of-town contractors who know little about Cincinnati, and this may explain why the local team's bid was so much lower. But when you have a mayor candidate and several council candidates going around saying the project should be stopped, that has a chilling effect. Even if there are contract protections that would make the contractors whole in the event of a cancellation -- which I no longer believe is possible -- fewer companies want to mobilize for a job that they think could be ended midway through. Could be bad for the company's reputation. And there's plenty of work out there right now.

 

Anyway, my take is that this situation is manageable. The city administration is moving ahead. And Roxanne Qualls assured me today that she stands behind the project but wants to ensure we're getting the best pricing from the best contractor team available. This project has met every challenge so far, and it will meet this one too.

Thanks, John, for that perspective. I was just thinking to myself that I hoped you would chime in soon. You always seem to put things in to a better frame. As I was reviewing the public document the city put out with bid numbers, I came to the same conclusion that if you look at the low bids for each of the components, you arrive at the city's estimate. The fact that 1 company didn't reach that number themselves is interesting, but I don't think we're at a stage of intractability here. The very vocal (and minority) opponents are foaming at the mouth and have been able to grab hold of the total number and oversimplify this process. If other public works projects got this same level of scrutiny, nothing would ever get done... and that's the most frustrating aspect of this entire debate.

I love my car free life here.  Could it be better?  Absolutely.  Is it necessary to own a car here.  Absolutely not.

 

^I understand the point you're trying to make, and I agree with you for the most part.  But keep in mind that you relocated here, so I'm guessing most people that you know live in the neighborhood you live in, or some other urban area that is easily reachable via transit.  But for natives, that is rarely the case.  Despite living in an urban area myself, I continually find myself needing a vehicle to reach family in the 'burbs.  The streetcar doesn't change that, and even light rail wouldn't change that immediately.  We're pretty much lashed to automobiles in this city for the foreseeable future.  Better transit will just help us minimize that.

Everything that has happened over the past few days is beyond disappointing. I have serious concerns about what this means for continued growth in OTR at the pace we have become accustomed to over the past year. I can't imagine how upset some of the investors are...investors who trusted that, all things considered, our elected officials were making the right decisions with credible data. Clearly they were not and bit off more than they could chew.

 

It's not that the bids came back over budget, it's that they came back on a totally different planet. The discrepancy is high enough that even a significant amount of value-engineering is not going to bring these costs back to something managable.

 

I try to explain to people why living in Cincinnati can be incredibly frustrating sometimes and this situation is only another talking point. There is something about this city that simply doesn't allow us to be as nimble as our peers in these kinds of matters.

 

I hate to be all doom and gloom, but I doubt this thing will get built now. I really do doubt it. This entire situation has the potential to leave a very bad taste in everyone's mouth about OTR, the current administration and the overall ability to fiscally trust the City for a very long time.

^^ well, John's words actually made me feel better about things.  But if you're feeling all doom and gloom about it, why not just step away from news coverage of it for a week or two?  It sounds like Qualls and other streetcar supporters need to regroup and rework things for abit anyway, so ath this point trying to stay on top of things is just people passing back and forth scary sounding rumors and the latest poop from the idiot nattering nabobs of negativity on WLW.

Chris Smitherman is saying now its going to cost above $180million. 

I hate to play the conspiracy card... I wonder if there was a campaign to influence potential contractors. With a little research one could probably find out who worked similar projects across the country. Then bombard them with the crap we hear daily. Like John said, why would they want to get involved...

Duke is now officially suing the City of Cincinnati over the streetcar

 

http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story/Duke-Energy-Sues-City-of-Cincinnati-Over-Streetcar/8EY2ZDF55kqHuNhJ-v8iuw.cspx#.UR6qXYkShIw.twitter

What the hell is this about?

 

Duke Energy Sues City of Cincinnati Over Streetcar

http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story/Duke-Energy-Sues-City-of-Cincinnati-Over-Streetcar/8EY2ZDF55kqHuNhJ-v8iuw.cspx

 

We have new information involving the dispute between Duke Energy and the City of Cincinnati. It has to do with the cost of moving utilities for the streetcar project.

 

Local 12 News has obtained a lawsuit filed by Duke within the past 24 hours. In the lawsuit, the power company claims the streetcar is also a public utility. As such, Duke argues, it is unconstitutional for the city to show favoritism, and force Duke to cover the cost of moving the utilities.

 

That project is expected to cost about $15 million.

 

We'll have more on this story coming up on Local 12 News at Five.

 

How are they filing this now, when they just agreed to let a court decide who pays?

I'm assuming one of the two parties had to sue the other to bring it to court? I think it's essentially outlining their case and the city will be "defendents" in the case. Not sure though. I doubt this is an "attack" on the streetcar. Anyone else have insight?

Guys, this is the lawsuit that both sides agreed to litigate in front of a court. One side or the other actually had to file it, courts don't decide matters unless a lawsuit is filed.

^exactly

dunno why the news is acting like it's something new

well, yeah, I do know why.....

Don't know what effect this has on the project

 

 

@JohnKasich appoints GOP Beth Trombold to unexpired Democratic/Independent seat on PUCO. http://ow.ly/hLnI2

 

“My political party affiliation is Republican”, writes Trombold in January 2012.

 

Three of the commissioners are already Republicans – including climate-change denier Todd Snitchler – but because Trombold has not voted in the past few primary elections, she is now claiming to be an “Independent” to get appointed to the seat.

that appointment won't have any affect on this action because it's being decided by a Court not by PUCO. The Ohio Democratic Party has promised to file a lawsuit over this appointment as its a violation of Ohio law.

^exactly

dunno why the news is acting like it's something new

well, yeah, I do know why.....

Yep it's called piling on.

 

Why are they suing the city  for 15 million, but not the state for 87 million on the Brent Spence Bridge for the cost to move the utilities there? Seems ass backwards.

I love my car free life here.  Could it be better?  Absolutely.  Is it necessary to own a car here.  Absolutely not.

 

^I understand the point you're trying to make, and I agree with you for the most part.  But keep in mind that you relocated here, so I'm guessing most people that you know live in the neighborhood you live in, or some other urban area that is easily reachable via transit.  But for natives, that is rarely the case.  Despite living in an urban area myself, I continually find myself needing a vehicle to reach family in the 'burbs.  The streetcar doesn't change that, and even light rail wouldn't change that immediately.  We're pretty much lashed to automobiles in this city for the foreseeable future.  Better transit will just help us minimize that.

 

Visiting family in the burbs without a car is an issue in every American city.  When I lived in Chicago, my sister was in Channahon, IL...which is not exactly accessible via transit.  I ended up renting a Zipcar every week or so to see her.  Even now, I rent a car about once per week and it's still more cost effective than owning one. 

Yea - it isn't a uniquely Cincinnati thing. I lived without a car in Indianapolis and was fine. I took the bus where I needed and walked or biked everywhere else. I took MegaBus to Chi. or Cincinnati and when necessary, rented a car to go to Columbus.

 

Now that I live in Center City Philly, with one of the best regional rail systems in the country, I still see times I need a car if I realistically want to travel out to the burbs and beyond. The regional system, although very expansive here, can't serve all the sprawl. ZipCar is my saving grace for those moments. It will always beat owning a car and the worries of parking that it comes with living in Center City.

Pg ripping on the streetcar on 700wlw

 

I'd like to know what he said exactly.

Chris Smitherman just said on 700wlw that Mallory, Qualls, The city manager, streetcar supporters, Cincinnatians for Progress and city council set out this plan to intentionally deceive the public by telling them the costs would be much lower than they let on.  That They conspired to get this done by intentionally misleading the public

 

He then blamed them for the 'no means yes' and 'yes means no' votes.  He said Mallory, Qualls, and City Council do not have business men and women of the African American community best interest at heart and that Cranley does

Go read Nate Livingsto's blog, Cranley & Smitherman are playing up the race card in order to get the AA vote. Now it looks like they'll play the race card in an attempt to further divide Cincinnati over the streetcar , this time along racial lines.

Has Mallory, Qualls or the city manager ever been invited on 700wlw to defend the project? So far it been totally one sided on that radio station.

I've long maintained that opposition to the streetcar is fundamentally about race. Smitherman wants a dysfunctional black ghetto upon which he can build a Detroit-style political machine to fulfill his own megalomaniacal ambitions, and COAST wants lily-white suburbs that they can keep lily-white by whipping up fear and resentment against the city (and in the process, line the pockets of the suburban developers who are the bread and butter of Finney's law practice). A healthy urban core with effective rail transit means more affluent white people moving to the city and more black and brown people moving to the suburbs, which ruins both Smitherman's and COAST's vision for how Cincinnati should be: an inner city with poor blacks who ride the bus because they have no choice, and wealthy white suburbs where people can afford to drive. This type of de facto segregation has been the natural order in this region for decades, and "leaders" like Smitherman and Chris Finney have done quite well for themselves under that system. As John Schneider has said here repeatedly: their worst fear isn't that the streetcar will be a failure, but that it will be a success.

 

It's no different than how, back in the civil rights era, white supremacist groups like the KKK would occasionally hold joint rallies with radical black nationalist groups, because they both wanted the same thing: the continuation of the segregationist status quo. Both Smitherman and COAST are savvy enough to know they can't just come out and say they hate the streetcar because they want to see the Cincinnati region remain segregated, so they couch their opposition in terms of "fiscal responsibility" and a fight against "wasteful spending". But those arguments fall apart under the slightest factual scrutiny; their silence regarding the Brent Spence Bridge or any other freeway project speaks volumes. All that remains is the race angle. Just look at what they say in their less-guarded moments on Twitter: for Smitherman, it's all about keeping OTR from being gentrified by white people, and for the COASTers, it's all about rail transit as a form of welfare for criminals and smelly homeless (read: black) people.

 

As I've said here before: Nobody musters up such passionate hatred over a dry fiscal debate. But watch how quickly the pitchforks and torches come out when a black family moves into an all-white suburb, or when some white hipster decides to be an urban pioneer in the ghetto.

:clap: Very well put David.

I've long maintained that opposition to the streetcar is fundamentally about race. Smitherman wants a dysfunctional black ghetto upon which he can build a Detroit-style political machine to fulfill his own megalomaniacal ambitions, and COAST wants lily-white suburbs that they can keep lily-white by whipping up fear and resentment against the city (and in the process, line the pockets of the suburban developers who are the bread and butter of Finney's law practice). A healthy urban core with effective rail transit means more affluent white people moving to the city and more black and brown people moving to the suburbs, which ruins both Smitherman's and COAST's vision for how Cincinnati should be: an inner city with poor blacks who ride the bus because they have no choice, and wealthy white suburbs where people can afford to drive. This type of de facto segregation has been the natural order in this region for decades, and "leaders" like Smitherman and Chris Finney have done quite well for themselves under that system. As John Schneider has said here repeatedly: their worst fear isn't that the streetcar will be a failure, but that it will be a success.

 

It's no different than how, back in the civil rights era, white supremacist groups like the KKK would occasionally hold joint rallies with radical black nationalist groups, because they both wanted the same thing: the continuation of the segregationist status quo. Both Smitherman and COAST are savvy enough to know they can't just come out and say they hate the streetcar because they want to see the Cincinnati region remain segregated, so they couch their opposition in terms of "fiscal responsibility" and a fight against "wasteful spending". But those arguments fall apart under the slightest factual scrutiny; their silence regarding the Brent Spence Bridge or any other freeway project speaks volumes. All that remains is the race angle. Just look at what they say in their less-guarded moments on Twitter: for Smitherman, it's all about keeping OTR from being gentrified by white people, and for the COASTers, it's all about rail transit as a form of welfare for criminals and smelly homeless (read: black) people.

 

As I've said here before: Nobody musters up such passionate hatred over a dry fiscal debate. But watch how quickly the pitchforks and torches come out when a black family moves into an all-white suburb, or when some white hipster decides to be an urban pioneer in the ghetto.

 

Well put. I seem to recall some grumbling in LA because they were spending a lot on light rail vs. bus services to urban neighborhoods, so this issue is out there. The difference in Cincinnati is that you have Smitherman pushing the buttons.

From Journal News today

 

Duke could pass streetcar cost onto Butler County customers

 

http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/duke-could-pass-streetcar-cost-onto-butler-county-/nWQjx/

 

A Duke Energy representative will be on Scott Sloan's 700WLW show at 10:06 AM.

:clap: Very well put David.

 

Yeah, I agree with this completely, except can we please not use the term "urban pioneer"? It makes it sound like more affluent folks moving into urban core neighborhoods come bearing smallpox-infected blankets.

Just listened to the podcast. The article "mr Anderson" pasted is "complete misinformation" according to duke

 

This is poliical nonsense that coast/smitherman/700wlw/cranley are pushing

:clap: Very well put David.

 

Yeah, I agree with this completely, except can we please not use the term "urban pioneer"? It makes it sound like more affluent folks moving into urban core neighborhoods come bearing smallpox-infected blankets.

 

They just come bearing yarn-bombed bike racks and $12 hot dogs.

If you're looking for a podcast filled with complete misinformation, check out Darryl Parks' 02/09/13 10AM hour. It had absolutely everything!

 

Streetcar:

 

route is Government Square to Findlay Market;

won't go to The Banks/stadiums (e.g. 2M+ at GABP);

won't go to Casino;

won't go to any of the hotels (e.g. The Westin);

only five "cars" were ordered so delays will be 10, 15, 20 minutes as there will only be two (total) streetcars, each being two cars  tied together with the fifth car being a back-up;

route to Uptown was canceled as streetcars can't make it up hills

 

Calls from the suburbs and two from Indiana, one of which the guy stated the people who voted for this (Mayor & Council members) are clearly getting kick-backs into their retirement and the FBI should be investigating.

 

And it was all capped off with Tom Luken calling in saying the bids (this was prior to them being released) were sealed so that the city could work deals with the contractors and then the fix would be in.

Cunningham just said every county in the surrounding area is going to pay for the streetcar now(95% of the costs).  That The mayor is telling everyone in Northern Kentucky, Indiana and SW Ohio that they need to pay for utilities.

 

He's got on some politician from Butler County outraged about it at 2.

 

The irony here is if Duke loses its case in PUCO, which COAST and the misinformed suburbanites want, they are going to be paying more. 

 

We are literally dealing with 10 year olds here willing to believe anything as long as its said by 700wlw

Just listened to the podcast. The article "mr Anderson" pasted is "complete misinformation" according to duke

 

This is poliical nonsense that coast/smitherman/700wlw/cranley are pushing

 

Its ironic that the $87 Million that Duke is spending to move its utilities for the BSB replacement will be billed to all of its customers in Ohio and Kentucky, yet not one news outlet has written so much as a single word about it. Where is the outrage?

There are a half dozen primetech communications (fibre optics) trucks at the corner of 12th and elm.  Are they helping with the level 1 utility relocation?

I'm convinced Chris Smitherman simply does not do anything except go on 700wlw and 55krc.  Appearing again at 5. 

 

He also referred to himself in the 3rd person

I'm convinced Chris Smitherman simply does not do anything except go on 700wlw and 55krc.  Appearing again at 5. 

 

He also referred to himself in the 3rd person

 

Smitherman didn't even attend the Neighborhood Summit this past weekend. He was probably too busy rehearsing his radio harangue to bother with attending.

Some of this radio misinformation is just getting too overwhelming. I just can't believe that there is an appetite in this market for all this streetcar talk. I have a lot of friends in the suburbs and rarely, if ever, hear anything about the streetcar from them. It just isn't on their radar.

 

At this point, if the Reds/Bengals/Bearcats aren't on the radio, I have no reason to even consider tuning into WLW. As for 55KRC, I haven't listened to it in years. I forget it's even there until I see it mentioned on this board.

^^Someone should compile a list of all of the events council typically attends (council meetings, groundbreakings, neighborhood summits, etc.) and track Smitherman's attendance.  Then a corresponding list of his radio appearances.  Publish those when he's up for re-election and we'll see if he keeps his seat.  It's obvious that he cares more about publicity than in actually being on council, and it seems like he is completely disinterested in improving this city.

Demagogue

 

A demagogue (/ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/) or rabble-rouser is a political leader in a democracy who appeals to the emotions, prejudices, and ignorance of the poorer and less-educated classes in order to gain power. Demagogues usually oppose deliberation and advocate immediate, violent action to address a national crisis; they accuse moderate and thoughtful opponents of weakness. Demagogues have appeared in democracies since ancient Athens. They exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, nothing stops the people from giving that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population.

^^Someone should compile a list of all of the events council typically attends (council meetings, groundbreakings, neighborhood summits, etc.) and track Smitherman's attendance.  Then a corresponding list of his radio appearances.  Publish those when he's up for re-election and we'll see if he keeps his seat.  It's obvious that he cares more about publicity than in actually being on council, and it seems like he is completely disinterested in improving this city.

 

Then you would be playing right into his delusions. You will only justify Smitherman's narcissism to Smitherman.

 

Guys like him eventually flame out, often quite dramatically. It's usually best to totally disassociate from people like him because you never know when it's going to happen and you don't want to be part of the collateral damage when he does crash and burn.

The question is why isn't Mallory, Qualls, Donohey, etc, on wlw and all the other stations like the village idiots are?  Do they not want to be or does 700 wlw not want them to be on?  Because they should be getting their voices heard as well but we rarely hear from them. 

They have jobs.