I am a lifelong Cinti resident.  I voted for Cranley, mostly because I agreed with his position on the streetcar.  I can also see the logic of PG's position, although I don't support it right now.  I have been reading some of the posts here today (catching up on news), and I can see how strongly supporters feel about this.  The problem is that if you are looking at this project as a resident of Westwood, Bond Hill, Walnut Hills, or Hyde Park (for example), you see this as a very expensive project that will benefit few city residents directly.  Operating costs alone might kill important future projects in other neighborhoods, or reduce police and other important budgets (streetcar might be icing, but getting the crime rate down is really the cake).  This project will certainly die unless supporters more clearly articulate in concrete terms how the whole city is benefitting, and how the operating costs will not deprive all the other neighborhoods of projects they want. 

 

Until we can see a concrete version of benefits to city, we have just theory to go on.  PG might have a way to save the project. Many of us trust his judgment, so supporters need to work with him quickly to make a case that the whole city can buy into.  You guys have a real challenge in front of you....

 

I'll bite:

 

Your city is a racist, washed-up rust belt dump that's literally a stone's throw from Kentucky, and might as well be there.

 

I'm sorry, that was really harsh. But it's what a lot of the rest of the country thinks about you. I should know, I grew up there and then left, and even in Columbus I am regularly confronted with this attitude.

 

Cincinnati's face to the world and its only hope - it's only shot - to fulfill its potential and compete with the rest of the cities in the country is it's scenic, historic riverfront and central neighborhoods. Like it or not, for Cincinnati to remain relevant it needs to throw all the love and money it can at the core. Nobody in the national economy gives a shit about Westwood or Hyde Park; $100 million investments in those neighborhoods aren't going to make Cincinnati more competitive while the core is still performing vastly below its potential.

 

Downtown and Over the Rhine ARE your neighborhoods. That is your city, and last time anyone checked it's still dying. People in the residential parts of the city need to stop squabbling over these issues like rats on a sinking ship and get in line behind the downtown - YOUR downtown. Your economic success is linked to the competitiveness and success of your city, you don't just go to work and pay your taxes in a vacuum.

 

I say all this as an outsider. It's tough love. But it's the truth. The average person in Charlotte or Minneapolis don't even know you exist anymore, so you'd better start taking some serious risks. The outgoing mayor understood this.

 

DAVEINCINTI: I hear a lot of that good old Cincinnati skepticism from you but no solutions. Meanwhile, the one project that will bring jobs and economic development to the core of YOUR city is in danger of being very foolishly terminated.

 

Oh, and other cities---30 at last count---are building light rail and/or streetcar systems. Why? They wisely see these systems as development engines for their cities. The same can happen here too:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/08/stateline-streetcars/3475007/

 

You will note that tucked into the article is the negative news from Cincinnati. See? We are already reaping the harvest of scorn nationally for our backward views. Are people going to want to live in such a place?

Everyone keeps talking about what a great ROI this will be for the city.  As far as I know, these are theoretical assertions only.  Can anyone name 1-2 significant employers (with reference) who are locating to downtown because of the streetcar?  What evidence is there that this ROI can only be achieved by this project (OTR seems to be progressing fairly well without it).  There have been other major projects recently in that area, such as the redo of Washington Park.  How much is enough for OTR/downtown? Will the time ever come when Cinti should start working on its other neglected neighborhoods, of which there are many?

 

There have been businesses popping up along the streetcar line for quite some time now specifically because they are anticipating what a great location it will be.  Just drive around the line and look at all the new places that have opened up recently and are planning on opening up.  Rhinegiest Brewery is a good example, so is Taste of Belgium, The Anchor Restaurant, and there are many more.  All of these places, if you talk to the owners, will tell you that they specifically chose that location because of the planned streetcar line.  Not only are businesses catching on already, but so are private citizens.  Real estate along the line has already taken off immensely.  Just try to shop for a condo or single family residence down here and you'll see that properties don't stay on the market very long because they are in such high demand.  This is not a coincidence.  People are moving downtown because they want to be part of all the excitement going on.  This is improving the image of the entire city, including where you live and will only continue to get better if we allow things to progress with this project.

I say all this as an outsider. It's tough love. But it's the truth. The average person in Charlotte or Minneapolis don't even know you exist anymore, so you'd better start taking some serious risks. The outgoing mayor understood this.

 

Ditto with Chicago, and you know what's weird? They know about St. Louis which is just as far, and suffered even worse economic blows than Cincy did.  You know why they know St. Louis exists, because unlike Cincinnatians people in St. Louis actually DO REALIZE THERE IS A WORLD BEYOND THEIR VERSION OF WEST CHESTER!

I'd wager St Louis has the same suburbs vs. city conflicts as Cincy.

 

Chicago 'knows' about StL due to the downstate vs. Chicago thing and the Cubs - Redbirds rivalry

Everyone keeps talking about what a great ROI this will be for the city.  As far as I know, these are theoretical assertions only.  Can anyone name 1-2 significant employers (with reference) who are locating to downtown because of the streetcar?  What evidence is there that this ROI can only be achieved by this project (OTR seems to be progressing fairly well without it).  There have been other major projects recently in that area, such as the redo of Washington Park.  How much is enough for OTR/downtown? Will the time ever come when Cinti should start working on its other neglected neighborhoods, of which there are many?

 

As a complete outsider, here is something that is not a theoretical assertion and the main reason why Cincinnati should continue the project. YOU ALREADY SIGNED THE CONTRACTS, CONSTRUCTION IS UNDERWAY. The city has signed contracts with the federal government. Huge, huge documents, can't you imagine the cost the federal government bore to review and construct these documents. Don't you understand how pissed off they're going to be if you back out after you sign all of the documents. You will lose the Duke lawsuit and have to pay millions of dollars to move utilities for nothing. You will have to pay millions of dollars just to wind down construction and maybe millions more on the contract with the construction companies. The contracts are signed, they are legally binding. You will have to pay millions of dollars to CAF for nothing. Wisconsin is mired in lawsuits over backing out of contracts with Talgo. Cincinnati will be a laughing stock throughout the country. Do you think the federal government is going to plop down grant money to a city that has backed out after the contacts were signed? Do you think businesses will willingly contract with the city? The time to argue over whether or not the streetcar was worth it is over. Complete the project.

 

Amen. There is only one reason the Streetcar will be voted to be canceled Monday and that is John cranleys ego

 

For or against the Streetcar is irrelevant now.  Canceling will be devastating to cincinnati

^Also, it's a way of him showing that he's in total control, to break the spirit of whatever coalition has built around this issue, and to intimidate anyone from advocating anything over the next 8 years that he can't personally hijack and make his own.  Which is, of course, exactly how you embarrass the guy -- go over his head.  Also he has the classic weak points of a bully -- use of his own techniques on him.  I'm not sure why people can't se this. 

This StrongTowns article describes exactly why strengthening the core is so important to a city and region.  In a nutshell, properties in the core are an order of magnitude more valuable than the sprawling neighborhoods. 

 

And this is true for OTR still. The average value per square foot in OTR is about $25 compared to $150 in the central business district. Anybody who asserts that OTR progress is "well under way" -- or anything beyond a good pilot study -- has probably not even contemplated the facts.

 

The streetcar would greatly accelerate bringing these parcels up to their potential value. And by the way this doesn't even factor in vacant parcels.

^Also, it's a way of him showing that he's in total control, to break the spirit of whatever coalition has built around this issue, and to intimidate anyone from advocating anything over the next 8 years that he can't personally hijack and make his own.  Which is, of course, exactly how you embarrass the guy -- go over his head.  Also he has the classic weak points of a bully -- use of his own techniques on him.  I'm not sure why people can't se this. 

 

Yes.  This is absolutely what is happening now.

This StrongTowns article describes exactly why strengthening the core is so important to a city and region.  In a nutshell, properties in the core are an order of magnitude more valuable than the sprawling neighborhoods.  You can pour incredible amounts of investment into these outer neighborhoods, and even a doubling or tripling of values (and thus taxes), which is highly unlikely, pales in comparison to even a small improvement in value in the downtown.  2x $300,000 is peanuts compared to 1.2x $10,000,000.

 

http://www.strongtowns.org/storage/post-images/PART%20Region%20Map%20H-P.118-001.jpg

 

Original caption from the article:  "You'll never guess where the traditional downtown is at. (Hint: the purple in the middle.)"

 

Here's another example but closer to home. Even the lower-income areas of Cleveland have higher property values per acre than do many of the wealthier outer suburbs of Cuyahoga County. The older, denser "streetcar suburbs" of Lakewood, Shaker Heights, Parma and Cleveland Heights (the first two are still accessible by rail transit) blow the doors off the newer suburbs and exurbs value-wise....

 

EDIT: I replaced the "bare" map with one to which I added the GCRTA Rapid transit lines:

 

Well, I can assure you that I am not Mr. Cranley (nor have I ever met him).  I am very concerned with the future of this city, having lived here for the 50 years I have been alive, so I do have an interest in what happens here. As for having years to acquaint myself with this project, that is part of the problem.  If the project was a clear winner for Cinti, it would already enjoy majority support.  Most people I talk to who don't reside on the line and are therefore not directly benefitting do not understand the need for a project that cannot clearly sustain itself.

 

I don't live anywhere near the line and am not directly benefiting from it as a property own it but am a strong proponent. Perhaps you should get out and talk to more people.  You really think all the supporters live on the line?  Have you ever actually looked up the population of people that live on the line?  Obviously not.

I live 100 miles away and know the streetcar is good for the whole state, let alone Cincinnati.

Chris Seelbach ‏@ChrisSeelbach  8m

Just found out that Cranley's choice for City Manager doesn't even live in the City of Cincinnati.  Should that matter?

Several interesting responses to my prior comments.  I just don't share in the dream that some here apparently have of a gleaming downtown surrounded by wasteland and vacant neighborhoods.  I want a strong central core, but I want all of Cinti to share in my local and federal tax dollars.  The project probably should move forward because of the money already spent, but it would be just fine me if the new leaders decide not to move forward.

 

The best project (which I strongly supported) was the full light rail project covering the whole 71 corridor that was proposed years ago.  Sensible light rail projects that really move people around whole city make sense;  Streetcars going basically to no where do not.... 

I just don't share in the dream that some here apparently have of a gleaming downtown surrounded by wasteland and vacant neighborhoods.

 

Nice straw man.

The best project (which I strongly supported) was the full light rail project covering the whole 71 corridor that was proposed years ago.  Sensible light rail projects that really move people around whole city make sense;  Streetcars going basically to no where do not.... 

 

If you're being sincere, please do some research on the current project.  The rails being installed are light rail grade.  That means that when we finally get light rail built to other neighborhoods, those trains can access downtown by hooking up to what we're installing right now.  Obtaining right of way is the most difficult part of any transit project, so having existing rail that slices right through OTR and downtown all the way to The Banks will make implementing the system you say that you want much easier.

 

Most people on this board would prefer regional light rail if we could get it.  But that was voted down by the county 11 years ago.  And just look at the amount of resistance that building a small scale rail project has met.  It's become obvious that this city needs to take baby steps if it wants to implement rail.  You might think of the streetcar as "going basically to no where", but it's really just the first phase of a bigger system.  Also, if you actually want a full light rail plan, I'm sorry but you never should have voted for Cranley.

I live 100 miles away and know the streetcar is good for the whole state, let alone Cincinnati.

 

I live in Centerville, about 40 miles north of the streetcar line. I have also lived in Montgomery and Mount Washington. I own zero property and zero businesses anywhere near the line. And I am 110 percent behind the Cincinnati streetcar.

 

I couldn't be more disappointed in the path that the city is embarking upon. Honestly, my enthusiasm for Cincinnati - and that means everywhere: suburbs, city, downtown, Kenwood, everywhere - is waning. I used to come down at least twice a week for a variety of things. I haven't been once since Nov. 5.

The best project (which I strongly supported) was the full light rail project covering the whole 71 corridor that was proposed years ago.  Sensible light rail projects that really move people around whole city make sense;  Streetcars going basically to no where do not.... 

 

Would you still support that region-wide light-rail system if, like the highway system, it were built one segment at a time? If so, how is that any different to what is under construction now -- which can support streetcars AND light-rail?

 

And you seem to forget that the city as a whole rejected light rail in 2002. The only contiguous blocks of voting precincts that supported MetroMoves was in the basin -- which is where the first leg of the rail system is under construction. You have to start somewhere.

 

Interesting, I wrote this to Cranley and all of council in 2008. I bolded my last paragraph:

 

January 11, 2008

 

John Cranley

City of Cincinnati

Chair, Finance Committee

801 Plum Street Rm. 356

Cincinnati, OH 45202-1979

 

RE: Streetcar

 

Councilman Cranley:

 

As a resident of Over-the-Rhine and an employee of a downtown business, I was pleased by Council’s vote in October in favor of proceeding with plans for a downtown and Over-the-Rhine streetcar after earlier approval from the Economic Development Committee. I understand that the plan is now in front of the Finance Committee and I urge you and the committee to resolve the financing issues and approve the streetcar plan.

 

It is my opinion that the streetcar is now the most important link and next step in the further development of downtown and Over-the-Rhine. It is now more important than the Banks, Fountain Square, Broadway Commons, Main Street, Gateway Quarter, Washington Park, or Findlay Market as it is the one key that literally ties all the pieces together. The future success of these individual projects improves when the streetcar enables residents and patrons to easily and effectively circulate in the business district and beyond. The streetcar condenses our ‘Basin’ to create an even more manageable and livable city. And it is proven in other cities to spur further development and increase density, both required to increase our tax base and grow inward.

 

Over the holidays I was having dinner on Fountain Square. The Square and restaurant seem particularly crowded with families and young people. I quickly learned that many were enjoying downtown because the Nutcracker was playing at the Aronoff just a block away. The synergy between Fountain Square and the Aronoff was electric that evening. Consider, however, the Nutcracker (and other events for that matter) at Music Hall and the ability of the streetcar to transport people quickly between Fountain Square and the Washington Park area and grow that synergy beyond just one or two blocks. I content that the future success of all projects in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine are tied and linked with the streetcar. It is the vehicle in which all projects can succeed.

 

I understand that the outlay of capital is great and other projects in all neighborhoods, including Downtown and Over-the-Rhine, may have to be delayed. But this is bigger than downtown. This is bigger than any one project. Make no mistake, the health and quality of our city (and I content the region) is ultimately tied to the health and quality of our downtown. Please move the streetcar proposal forward and work towards its implementation and completion.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dan

Queen City Survey

Several interesting responses to my prior comments.

 

You had an opportunity to prove the people wrong that were calling you a troll. You came here asking for concrete numbers and justification for building the streetcar. Quite a few replies later your response is dismissive and filled with strawmen.

 

There are tangible benefits to continuing the project over pissing money down the toilet and getting nothing.

 

Your comments about investing downtown instead of the neighborhoods is funny considering that is where the bulk of economic activity occurs within a city. Besides that how many hundreds of millions of dollars has Cinci spent on highways, bridges, and other infrastructure outside the city over the last decades? If it's anything like Cleveland, I'd wager a lot.

Mendo, if I cared about someone calling me a name (such as troll or whatever), I should head back to the nursery where they belong.  As for straw men, here are some of the other comments made in reply to me:

 

It makes no sense to just do little projects here and there in Westwood or Hyde Park or wherever when the central core is still struggling.

 

You simply can't get the same ROI from a similar investment in other neighborhoods. Which is why this project is much better for Westwood than a similar investment in Hyde Park.

 

The fact is Downtown Cincinnati and OTR are what should be looked at as 'Global Cincinnati.' It is the city's global hub, its global brand, and people ought to start treating it like that and stop pitting it against regional and neighborhood centers like Westwood and Hyde Park.

 

Nobody in the national economy gives a shit about Westwood or Hyde Park;

 

In a nutshell, properties in the core are an order of magnitude more valuable than the sprawling neighborhoods.

 

The streetcar would greatly accelerate bringing these parcels up to their potential value. And by the way this doesn't even factor in vacant parcels.

 

Cinti is much more to me than property values and ROI.  It is also about a decent neighborhood for all residents, not just the new hipsters who are investing in property downtown/OTR.  I remember what neighborhoods like Westwood were like when I was growing up here, and I am very sad to see what they have become today.  I too could have left here years ago, but this is my hometown and I hope it will always be. 

 

Cinti is more than a business investment to some of us, and that means all of Cinti, not just downtown.....

 

 

mentioned Hipsters... we know what that means.

Mendo, if I cared about someone calling me a name (such as troll or whatever), I should head back to the nursery where they belong.  As for straw men, here are some of the other comments made in reply to me:

 

It makes no sense to just do little projects here and there in Westwood or Hyde Park or wherever when the central core is still struggling.

 

You simply can't get the same ROI from a similar investment in other neighborhoods. Which is why this project is much better for Westwood than a similar investment in Hyde Park.

 

The fact is Downtown Cincinnati and OTR are what should be looked at as 'Global Cincinnati.' It is the city's global hub, its global brand, and people ought to start treating it like that and stop pitting it against regional and neighborhood centers like Westwood and Hyde Park.

 

Nobody in the national economy gives a shit about Westwood or Hyde Park;

 

In a nutshell, properties in the core are an order of magnitude more valuable than the sprawling neighborhoods.

 

The streetcar would greatly accelerate bringing these parcels up to their potential value. And by the way this doesn't even factor in vacant parcels.

 

Cinti is much more to me than property values and ROI.  It is also about a decent neighborhood for all residents, not just the new hipsters who are investing in property downtown/OTR.  I remember what neighborhoods like Westwood were like when I was growing up here, and I am very sad to see what they have become today.  I too could have left here years ago, but this is my hometown and I hope it will always be. 

 

Cinti is more than a business investment to some of us, and that means all of Cinti, not just downtown.....

 

 

 

Your sentiment just implies that you don't understand, or refuse to accept, how cities work. You can't have nice things in Westwood without an economically viable downtown. You just can't. It's not a debatable topic, like what flavor of ice cream we all like.

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

Unfortunately, few people in Cincinnati understand how cities work because they've lived their entire lives in one that doesn't. 

Cinti is much more to me than property values and ROI.  It is also about a decent neighborhood for all residents, not just the new hipsters who are investing in property downtown/OTR.  I remember what neighborhoods like Westwood were like when I was growing up here, and I am very sad to see what they have become today.  I too could have left here years ago, but this is my hometown and I hope it will always be.

 

Property values are a reflection of economic growth. You came here asking for reasons to support the streetcar. Suddenly you don't care about return on investment? Maybe we should just light the money on fire. Put on a huge bonfire out in the burbs.

 

Cinti is more than a business investment to some of us, and that means all of Cinti, not just downtown.....

 

Lol what the hell does that even mean. The suburbs go as the city goes. What should city council do if not treat the city as a business investment.

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

 

Funny how you just happen to pop up now. I won't call you a troll, but I do wonder just who the hell you are.

Maybe we should just light the money on fire.

 

That's basically what Cranley is advocating.

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

 

Yep, you're a troll. Thanks for playing!

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

 

That's not saying much for you. John Cranley has no vision whatsoever. He's on record as wanting to compete with Kenwood and Montgomery, not Charlotte and Indianapolis. He thinks in 1985 terms and fails to grasp any of the reasons for the positive developments in Cincinnati the past eight years. He helped move jobs OUT of Cincinnati as part of his other job. He was a failed councilmember who learned under a do-nothing mayor during a woeful time in the city's recent history. He is antagonizing or outright firing highly qualified people like MD and JD, people who have starred here and will elsewhere. He advocates the use of trolly buses, which are more expensive than streetcars and are used in such places low-volume places as Cheyenne and Hilton Head for sightseeing trips. And he either embraces the poisonous methods of the racist COAST Tea Party group or he's just using them to do his dirty work/wring a few right-wing nutcase votes. Either way, he's a slimeball for it.

 

Frankly, Cincinnati elected a loser for mayor. There's no other way to describe John Cranley.

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

 

And that's why I'm moving to Cleveland, St. Louis, Indy, or Nashville (or Sacramento, if I'm nuts, lol) after graduating from college (Miami U). It's not just the streetcar. It's the lack of vision and the outright disregard for most developments in the outside world (I'm being pretty harsh, mind you), which is really shocking for such a well-built, highly populated place. Cincinnati has so much latent potential it isn't even funny.

 

Nonetheless, I don't plan on a corporate career (biotech/medicine instead), so Cincinnati doesn't really appeal to me for career interests...

Civ, I think you will soon find that our new Mayor and new city council see Cinti much more like I do than you....

You certainly see Porktown more like my depressed, mentally ill sister does...

Dave, you've done a poor job at presenting your case. We all know Cranley "views the city the same way you do," but that's no more justification than if Qualls won and we had nothing better to say than "Qualls agrees with us!!!1" but we have a lot more to say than that.

 

If you're a lifelong Cincy resident, I suggest moving and getting a more objective perspective on the world. I don't live in Cincy currently. Havem't for a number of years. Never lived on the streetcar line. But I know abandoning the streetcar at this point would be nigh-suicidal. It would set the city back 10 years or more, while other cities progress. None of my family lives on the streetcar line, but they all recognize its value, and/or recognize how completely idiotic it is to continue debating the topic after two referenda, multiple elections, and signed contracts.

Vote near, streetcar saga takes a new twist

Without six council votes, move to halt construction could face referendum

 

Cincinnati might continue building its streetcar for another year despite electing an anti-streetcar City Council and mayor. Or it might not.

 

In the increasingly complex chess game over the controversial streetcar project, Mayor-elect John Cranley has scheduled a vote Monday to stop construction, likely for 30 days. He is calling it a pause to conduct a review comparing the costs of canceling vs. completing the $133 million project.

 

The newly formed Streetcar Committee, led by incoming Vice Mayor David Mann, will hold its first meeting at noon Monday – a day after the swearing-in of the new council and mayor. A special council meeting follows at 4 p.m.

 

Cont

So, its sounding like unless Winburn or someone else changes their mind between now and monday, they are going to vote to "pause" construction.  However, it won't take effect for 30 days and in that time we're supposed to collect enough signatures to put the issue on the ballot.  If we are successful in gathering the required signatures within 30 days, will council be forced to continue construction until the election?  They aren't clear on that in the article.  If that's the case, then by time the election occurs the project will be much further along than it is now correct?

I live 100 miles away and know the streetcar is good for the whole state, let alone Cincinnati.

 

I live in Centerville, about 40 miles north of the streetcar line. I have also lived in Montgomery and Mount Washington. I own zero property and zero businesses anywhere near the line. And I am 110 percent behind the Cincinnati streetcar.

 

I couldn't be more disappointed in the path that the city is embarking upon. Honestly, my enthusiasm for Cincinnati - and that means everywhere: suburbs, city, downtown, Kenwood, everywhere - is waning. I used to come down at least twice a week for a variety of things. I haven't been once since Nov. 5.

 

Thank you for capturing my thoughts.  As an outsider, I am a huge consumer of core Cincinnati.  Mainly it's parks, restaurants and special events.  Watching Cranley's maneuvers on this issue is really bringing out my vindictiveness.  The only vote I had before the election was to visit OTR and DT, spend money and expose my children to the city.  The only vote after is to chose something else.  Cranleyville won't have the same appeal. 

 

He hates Cincinnati.  So why should I care anymore?

 

/rant

It will be canceled if the project is delayed 30 days because the feds will yank the money. No only that it will add more costs because of the delay. I think 600,000 was added because of the last delay.

Am I missing something?  Seems like this whole post-election debate over cancellation is lacking specifics about just how will the city come up with the money to pay the cancellation penalties and potential litigation costs.  What's the plan?  What would a shutdown budget look like as far as sources/uses of funds? Is there a possibility taxes will be raised or existing vital programs/services cut just for the sake of coming up with funds to pay the shutdown costs?  One would hope this information would be on the table when the new mayor/council convene for the cancellation vote.  :wtf:

But I know abandoning the streetcar at this point would be nigh-suicidal. It would set the city back 10 years or more, while other cities progress.

 

I'm not opposed to the streetcar. I find the debate interesting, but I really do think that there's a rail cult mentality. Cincinnati will be set back 10 years or more if the streetcar is cancelled? Come on. The Cincinnati Metro is a big economy; the proposed streetcar is just a small part of that economy.

What's amazing to me is that they are totally ignoring what the Feds are telling them.  If they want to study the impact of cancellation, fine.  But do it while construction continues.  "Pausing" guarantees that you're losing the Federal money, so doing that while investigating makes no sense whatsoever.  Except that they really don't care what they find out.  They'll cancel at any cost, and pausing is just a way to ensure that that happens.  Cincinnatians should demand much, much more accountability from their officials.

 

Chris Smitherman's family's concrete company has a contract on the streetcar project:

http://www.messer.com/news/2013/10/28/streetcar_project_reports_12_5_million_in_construction_contracts_to_disadvantaged_businesses

 

Here is the company:

http://www.jostinconstruction.com

What's amazing to me is that they are totally ignoring what the Feds are telling them.  If they want to study the impact of cancellation, fine.  But do it while construction continues.  "Pausing" guarantees that you're losing the Federal money, so doing that while investigating makes no sense whatsoever.  Except that they really don't care what they find out.  They'll cancel at any cost, and pausing is just a way to ensure that that happens.  Cincinnatians should demand much, much more accountability from their officials.

 

Seriously...they keep using this $50,000/day number which was completely made up by the Enquirer.  We are NOT spending any additional money by keeping construction going.  It's all tied up in contracts that are going to be negotiated if canceled.  When those contracts go to court, they're not going to take the total amount owed and divide it by the number of days they worked.  That's idiotic.  I completely understand the game of politics, and I find it somewhat amusing to watch this one play out...but eventually our city leaders MUST come to terms with the fact that this is REAL money and there is REAL math that WILL be calculated if they move forward with this ridiculous notion of cancellation.

I'm not opposed to the streetcar. I find the debate interesting, but I really do think that there's a rail cult mentality. Cincinnati will be set back 10 years or more if the streetcar is cancelled? Come on. The Cincinnati Metro is a big economy; the proposed streetcar is just a small part of that economy.

 

Here is what I see.... When you travel to small-town Ohio, you often see only two types of people: retirees and poor people. Those are groups who cannot easily relocate. I am starting to see this situation find its way into larger Ohio cities like Canton, Youngstown and Toledo. Some small towns with big colleges have been able to avoid looking like places that donate too much young blood. The bigger cities of Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland have areas where young, creative, energetic people live -- places that aren't associated with their universities and can stand on their own merits due to the availability of big-city amenities.

 

So we often look at Columbus as the city of growth in Ohio. It has a lot of assets going for it, including many urban assets that young people want. But guess what asset young professionals said they missed most about Columbus?

 

You got it.... A quality local transportation system, especially one favoring transit, bicycling, pedestrians and rail. At 37% it was the top response, up from 23% just four years earlier. SOURCE: http://www.columbus.org/services/workforce-development/young-professionals/2011-state-of-the-young-professional/

 

One must wonder how many more young people would choose to remain in Columbus after graduation if the city offered a quality local transportation system favoring transit, bicycling, pedestrians and rail. We often think of how fast growing Columbus is without trains-n-transit and seem content with that. But how much bigger would Columbus be if it had a better local transit system?

 

Up north, the urban neighborhoods of Cleveland and its streetcar suburbs are slowly being redesigned around local transportation services including rail, BRT, bikes and paths. That is not to say it will be easy to convince young people to stay and attract more from other metros. Greater Cleveland has serious job stagnation issues. But it recognizes it must retain and attract young people and immigrants to bring their creativity and energy else it will face the death knell of being home to only retirees and poor people.

 

And so we come to Cincinnati. Its competition (Cleveland, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, etc. etc.) wants your young people and are doing whatever they can to attract them. It's not quite like the lollipop-waving Child Catcher of Vulgaria from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, but it's not far off either. Portland got credit for being the first to offer this social-networking playground for young professionals, re-inventing itself as the place where Millennials go to retire. Cincinnati will continue to be a draw for young people as long as it has major universities and cool neighborhoods within walking/biking distance of them. But if that's the extent of its youth-attraction efforts, then the City of Cincinnati is in trouble. It may not keep those young people after graduation. Will Cincinnati be like the increasing number of Ohio cities that are home to mostly retirees and poor people? Or will it strengthen its position in the serious game to keep and attract young people?

 

So Cincinnati's next move is.....

A pause, if it were even possible not considering the federal grants, is complicated and costly, and most likely requires change orders to contracts to be done right.  Anything else would be breach of contract unless there is some weird clause that allows for it. It would need to be negotiated with all the companies the city has contracts with.  What, exactly, is pausing, would need to be determined.  For example, stop laying rail? OK- does that also mean the rail company stops its manufacturing? The supply chain goes deep here with all the different aspects of this. 

 

The "pause" is just cancellation in disguise since it "sounds" like a reasonable position- but it just ain't possible.

 

It would be cheaper to do the analysis while construction continues.

I'm not opposed to the streetcar. I find the debate interesting, but I really do think that there's a rail cult mentality. Cincinnati will be set back 10 years or more if the streetcar is cancelled? Come on. The Cincinnati Metro is a big economy; the proposed streetcar is just a small part of that economy.

Why should there even be a debate now, Eighth and State? The debate took place before the city committed to and began construction on a streetcar line. Supporting the completion of this project is not indicative of a cult mentality.

1/3 to 1/2 half of the world lives in places with rail transit. Are they cultists too?

I'm not opposed to the streetcar. I find the debate interesting, but I really do think that there's a rail cult mentality. Cincinnati will be set back 10 years or more if the streetcar is cancelled? Come on. The Cincinnati Metro is a big economy; the proposed streetcar is just a small part of that economy.

Why should there even be a debate now, Eighth and State? The debate took place before the city committed to and began construction on a streetcar line. Supporting the completion of this project is not indicative of a cult mentality.

 

A "rail cult mentality?" That sounds an awful lot like what Gov. Kasich had to say about the "train cult." If I'm a part of a "rail cult" it's a title I wear proudly because of all the good things which will benefit society through more and better rail service. So there.

If Cincinnati's streetcar line does get built, it will be not quite big enough to give the impression of a city run by a rail cult.

Train cult:

If given the choice between being in the rail cult or the anti-growth/stupidity cult, I choose rail.

I've always wondered if those against rail have ever been to a city and extensively used a good rail network. I honestly don't know of anyone who has visited places like NYC or San Francisco or Chicago and thought, "man, I really hated that they had rail transit there." And modern systems are so nice. Riding in a comfortable train while being able to do something else to pass the time is honestly really great. I don't understand the hatred for rail even if someone doesn't use it extensively.