A lot those people have irrational fears that if someone else rides a train then the rail-hater themselves will be rounded up, forced to live in a 100 story condo and that their cars will be crushed.

A friend/colleague and I have done an analysis of revenue that could be generated by a special improvement district (SID). The main finding -

 

"A 3.0 mil tax on two combined SIDs that include both the current DCI SID, and a new SID within OTR, would generate nearly $3 Million annually; such a new tax would cost the owner of a $100,000 property an additional $105 per year."

 

So, provided that we could get the work done to get 60% of property owners to agree - which of course is a tall order - this funding could provide the city's contribution of the operating costs of the streetcar.

 

Its my bias, but I believe that these numbers-focussed analyses about "how you pay for it" can be a part of the conversation that helps natural skeptics to identify with the transformative vision of the streetcar. For example, I'd like to take the line up to the Zoo, plus the first logical planned east-west lines, and do a similar analysis on SIDs that could support part of their operations.

 

It may sound premature, given where we're at right now, but I think that we need to move rapidly away from the OTR/Banks loop and start focussing on a plan that looks much more Cincinnati-regional for streetcar, and beyond for light rail (as in John Schneider's great post on the light rail possibilities, about a week ago).

 

Anybody with the interests and capabilities to help out on these sorts of efforts, let me know.

 

SID Report link:

https://copy.com/JqlJiKOKn3EIP4d4

 

Hmm so what happens if a referendum(assuming no delays in construction) comes through and it fails after it's voted on? Isn't it still too far ahead to cancel?

 

You guys crack me up sometimes. It's just a streetcar project, not a battle between good and evil, although the debate devolved into a grudge match a long time ago.

 

 

It's a battle of perception, trying to shake off the shackles of Cincinnati's history.  If the streetcar is canceled then Cincinnati will be "that idiotic city that pisses away money and gets nothing for it" for at least another generation.  The subway is only just starting to fade from the minds of people who know history, but Cincinnati is still a piddly midwestern flyover city to most people.  If the streetcar continues then it multiplies all the other good things happening in the city, if not, then that's all anyone will know about, deflating all the progress the city's made. 

I've always wondered if those against rail have ever been to a city and extensively used a good rail network. I honestly don't know of anyone who has visited places like NYC or San Francisco or Chicago and thought, "man, I really hated that they had rail transit there." And modern systems are so nice. Riding in a comfortable train while being able to do something else to pass the time is honestly really great. I don't understand the hatred for rail even if someone doesn't use it extensively.

 

I don't think there's any insidious reason.  I think that most of the anti-rail crowd just lacks vision and is comfortable with the ways things are.  They like their cars and don't understand why other people wouldn't want to drive one.  They see taking transit as running on someone else's schedule, whereas pro-transit people see taking transit as avoiding the hassles of traffic and parking.  I also think that most of the anti-rail crowd hasn't bothered to crunch the numbers on what a car actually costs to drive per year (car payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, repairs, the occasional ticket), because these costs are paid little by little and forgotten about.  They also have no idea how much roads cost to build and maintain, let alone how that work is funded, and they don't care because it's a necessary evil to give "everyone" the freedom to come and go as they please with a car.  So then they look at a streetcar loop, and naturally they see it as a completely unnecessary expenditure because it doesn't fit into their lifestyle at all. 

 

Some people have vision and can recognize what a change rail would bring to a city that doesn't have it yet.  Others just flat out cannot understand it until it is built.  It's not their fault.  Everyone just loves a 19th century brick home after it has been fully restored, but how many people would be in love with it before the work was done?  Many would just tear it down and never even realize what was lost.

I've lived in Cincinnati my entire 36-year life.  My wife and I have traveled enough of the country, to places like Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, ABQ, DC, etc., to have seen what can happen when a city values progress. 

 

Is any city perfect?  No.  But I fear if the streetcar is cancelled and the city has to pay $100m for nothing but a half mile of useless rail, that we will have had our only chance to taste real progress, and an actual forward-thinking attitude among our citizenry, for the better part of my remaining lifetime. 

 

My wife has often talked about moving away once we take care of some obligations here in Cincinnati over the next few years.  I used to balk at the idea.  If the streetcar gets yanked, I think I'll have less of a reason to defend Cincinnati, and more of a reason to appreciate the progress made by other cities.

 

Someone said upthread that Cincinnati is worth fighting for.  Is it?  I'm not so sure anymore.

 

I've lived in Cincinnati my entire 36-year life.  My wife and I have traveled enough of the country, to places like Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, ABQ, DC, etc., to have seen what can happen when a city values progress. 

 

Is any city perfect?  No.  But I fear if the streetcar is cancelled and the city has to pay $100m for nothing but a half mile of useless rail, that we will have had our only chance to taste real progress, and an actual forward-thinking attitude among our citizenry, for the better part of my remaining lifetime. 

 

My wife has often talked about moving away once we take care of some obligations here in Cincinnati over the next few years.  I used to balk at the idea.  If the streetcar gets yanked, I think I'll have less of a reason to defend Cincinnati, and more of a reason to appreciate the progress made by other cities.

 

Someone said upthread that Cincinnati is worth fighting for.  Is it?  I'm not so sure anymore.

 

Cranley's version isn't.

 

You guys crack me up sometimes. It's just a streetcar project, not a battle between good and evil, although the debate devolved into a grudge match a long time ago.

 

 

 

Hey you're the guy who threw out the "train cult" reference. What did you expect?

 

You guys crack me up sometimes. It's just a streetcar project, not a battle between good and evil, although the debate devolved into a grudge match a long time ago.

 

 

 

Hey you're the guy who threw out the "train cult" reference. What did you expect?

 

 

The "debate" didn't devolve into a grudge match, because there never was a debate.  Never, once, over the past seven years, have opponents of the streetcar project engaged the facts.  For seven years, with rare exception, the mainstream media has either knowingly allied itself with the obstructionists or been tricked by them. 

 

Fake callers, letters to the editor by people who don't exist, scripted citizen comments before council, etc., it never ends:

 

You guys crack me up sometimes. It's just a streetcar project, not a battle between good and evil, although the debate devolved into a grudge match a long time ago.

 

 

So you apply a derisive category in which to exclude a large group of people who want use a mode of transportation that's proven to enhance the livability of cities and then blast them for taking offense to it? I admire your superior social skills.

This is a web community about cities. Rail is good for cities.

 

Coming here and calling people rail cultists or "OTR hipsters" is like going to the discussion boards on ESPN and calling all the users stupid jocks.

Some pictures I took today (11/30/13) of the finished and unfinished streetcar tracks on Elm St.:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Jake, for this streetcar update, and especially for the unusual perspectives of Elm St. presented in your first and last photos.  For a moment, that first pic really blew me away--ie, with "Washington Park" on the immediate left and "PBS" in the center, seemingly only a few blocks apart.  (I've always appreciated Cincy's compact core, but I just knew it wasn't that compact!)  :-o 

When I first learned to drive, there was a street in Springfield that still had the abandoned rail poking out of it. Even in a Bonneville, they would catch your tires & drag you off course. These tracks look so much nicer. Too bad the media won't run pictures like these.

Mann was on the Brian Patrick show today saying the new council needs to get good accurate numbers on the project.

Then he cited the $50k/day figure...

Some pictures I took today (11/30/13) of the finished and unfinished streetcar tracks on Elm St.:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note how the line jogs to the right to meet the stop at 14th and Elm, now an unpaved area protected by cones. The reason for this is that our cars will meet the curb at the stops perfectly. When the car pulls up to the stop - within a 1/4" horizontally - it will calculate the weight of the passengers on the vehicle and raise or lower its suspension so the floor of the vehicle is exactly 14" above the street -- equal to the height of the curb. So you will have a perfect horizontal and vertical match to the curb. No ramp like in Portland, Tacoma or Seattle or like in any other ADA-compliant streetcar that's operating today. The best analogy I can think of are the trains at the airport. They meet perfectly with the terminal floor when the doors open.

 

That's why the cars travel away from the curb and then move in to "kiss" them at the stops -- why you see the jog in the track.

 

I've watched a lot of streetcar lines get built over the years, and the quality of our Prus' work is exquisite -- as good as any I've seen.

I can't stop looking at that pic.  PBS in the background.  How the street slopes as you get closer to the "shore".  Great perspective.  And those beautiful rails!

More reasons to not use streetcars

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/C/CINCINNATI_TRISTATE_killings.php

^

Fantastic housing stock...a lot of old buildings with oodles of potential....this area looks like a diamond in the rough...just waiting for something to make it bloom....a streetcar  :-)

Last week's Newsmakers topic - Mass Transit

Buses, streetcars, BRTs...

http://www.local12.com//entertainment/features/newsmakers/stories/newsmakers-november-24-2013-43.shtml#.UptG6SjvMUg

No city would take our design in-place of theirs. Cranley mentioned selling the streetcars to another city. Dumb dumb thinking.

I didn't notice if this was posted here before, but there's a "line the line" rally today at noon at Washington Park.  http://us3.campaign-archive2.com/?u=f66a03e23b959fc88788cfd3c&id=3aa18f0d73

No city would take our design in-place of theirs. Cranley mentioned selling the streetcars to another city. Dumb dumb thinking.

 

They would have to be retrofitted to work on another rail system. The CAF streetcars were designed as the rails were being laid, so the wheel bogies (ie wheels, flanges, axles, casings, braking systems and sometimes the traction motors are built into them) would have to be replaced to work on another rail system. Not impossible, but that means the City of Cincinnati would have to sell the streetcars at a significant loss (half price?) to make it worthwhile for another city to buy them and then pay to retrofit them.

 

FYI new wheel bogies cost $500,000 to $1 million each. They are the most expensive components of a streetcar or light-rail vehicle. This is what one looks like for a European tram (similar to a U.S. streetcar)....

 

Oh I meant the outside shell, seating etc. The Feds is right this would be unprecedented.

 

When was the overhead wires due to be installed?

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/12/01/heres-how-cranley-council-plan-to.html

Some pictures from today's rally...

Nice job!!

 

BTW in that last picture, could you get me the phone number of that girl in the foreground? WOW

Hot chicks love streetcars.

Hot chicks love streetcars.

 

Apparently! :)

^ These photos need to get out there. Offer them to media.

^ These photos need to get out there. Offer them to media.

 

Via the @allaboardohio account, I've tweeted a cropped version of the second-to-last photo....

 

https://twitter.com/AllAboardOhio/status/407245472693108736/photo/1

^ These photos need to get out there. Offer them to media.

 

I counted 518 people lining Elm St.  I think the actual number is closer to about 540.  I'm uploading a video right now. 

Nice job!!

 

BTW in that last picture, could you get me the phone number of that girl in the foreground? WOW

 

 

Thats my wife

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha ha ha, I wish:)

I counted 518 people in this video:

 

Huge turnout!

Here are a few words from Rob Richardson, who was co-chair of the No on 9 campaign in 2009. A view of the streetcar maintenance facility construction site at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=p1ijNPj52nA

I saw someone carrying some of these balloons up on Ludlow around 2 today.

Is it true Smitherman's family has a construction company that is working on the streetcar? If that is true no way should he have any vote on the streetcar.

His brother owns Jostin Concrete who won a bid on construction. Biz Courier reports Jostin has pulled out of it's contract & that Slitherman was completely ignorant of the contract.

yeah, right...

Is it true Smitherman's family has a construction company that is working on the streetcar? If that is true no way should he have any vote on the streetcar.

 

If true, really odd that Smitherman would be such an outspoken opponent of the streetcar.

^ Maybe he thought there'd be more money in breach of contract litigation. Or a better ratio of money-to-work performed.

^ Maybe he thought there'd be more money in breach of contract litigation. Or a better ratio of money-to-work performed.

 

Or Smitherman thought it would be easier to break the contracts with his brother. Not hard to imagine asking your brother to underbid to get the contract if your plan all along was to cancel the contracts. For example:

 

His brother owns Jostin Concrete who won a bid on construction. Biz Courier reports Jostin has pulled out of it's contract & that Slitherman was completely ignorant of the contract.

yeah, right...

First of many lawsuits? Supporters really need to make a mess of the cancellation. This could be a good start...

 

CAF USA Warns of Streetcar Cancellation Costs

 

..."CAF will have to recover all the incurred expenses as well as all the additional cost of cancelling the contract, which would be substantial too," Verdeja writes in the letter.

 

http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-5318-caf-usa-warns-of-streetcar-cancellation-costs.html

Smitherman knew of Jostin's involvement with the streetcar since 2009:

 

The Cincinnati NAACP has been briefed that Jostin Concrete has joined the Mayor's streetcar team.  The owner of Jostin Concrete is the brother of Cincinnati NAACP President, Christopher Smitherman.  Citizens will have the opportunity to witness the integrity and commitment of President Smitherman, the Cincinnati NAACP leadership and membership.  Jostin Concrete may have a great opportunity, however, building a "choo-choo" train is the wrong public policy direction for the masses of Cincinnatians.  Smitherman says, "I deeply respect the independence of my brother's company.  I am confident that the issue will be rejected in November."

http://naacpcincinnati.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=229&Itemid=1

So what are the bookmakers in vegas saying about completing phase 1 right now? Can I look forward to riding in 2015 or 2016, or should I invest in some new running shoes?

Everyone who can, please try to make it to the council meeting(s) today to voice your concerns on the streetcar.  Today could be our last chance...ever.

 

 

Note that some of the details have changed. Show up by 11:30 to sign up to speak between Noon and 4pm!

For those who can go (I wish I could skip work today), please emphasize that while they are trying to be responsible by delaying the project to study the costs, ask them to get a confirmation from the feds in writing that a delay will not jeapordize the federal funding. No delays until we have the confirmation. Tell them it is irresponsible to vote on a delay or defund until they know that will not cancel the streetcar with the loss of federal funds. This may be the most reasonable argument we have to some of the votes on council.

For those who can go (I wish I could skip work today), please emphasize that while they are trying to be responsible by delaying the project to study the costs, ask them to get a confirmation from the feds in writing that a delay will not jeapordize the federal funding. No delays until we have the confirmation. Tell them it is irresponsible to vote on a delay or defund until they know that will not cancel the streetcar with the loss of federal funds. This may be the most reasonable argument we have to some of the votes on council.

 

And from what city funding sources the federal funds must be repaid.

New News:

 

Public Comment for #CincyStreetcar will be allowed at 4pm meeting. Confirmed by @kevinwcpo with Mayor's Office.

Has anybody heard if Mallory, Qualls, Quinlivan plan on doing anything in supporting the streetcar now that they're out of office?

Mallory was saying he wanted to work for Ford on the Dan Hurley show.