December 11, 201311 yr The issue of what the Federal Government will do with its money if City Hall cancels the streetcar on the deadline day, December 19, 2013 is the million dollar question sharing the room with the Charter Amendment. The Federal Government has so far made it abundantly clear that it will immediately take back its money if City Hall votes to cancel on December 18. Has the Charter Amendment initiative changed this? Removing the Federal share of the funding leaves the streetcar project dead in the water, even if the voters approve the Charter Amendment later next year mandating the city to complete its construction. The city surely won't pony up those lost federal dollars. Another concern is that, even if the Feds keep their money in Cincinnati until after the Amendment has been put to a vote next spring, by the time said vote has been held all the contractors involved will have been standing idle for months, and their employees out of work if not reassigned to jobs elsewhere. I don't see how the contractors can afford to sit around idle. THEY will call it quits and declare the whole affair null and void! The only workable answer is if the Charter Amendment team succeeds in collecting the required number of legally certified voter signatures, the city is then required to immediately restart the streetcar project pending the outcome of the vote next spring, thus fulfilling the Fed's requirements that the project remain on track and the money's kept in place. Is there any such requirement? Yes or no. Otherwise, why collect thousands of signatures for a project that can't be paid for and/or the contractors give up on because they can't stand around idle for months? The city surely isn't going to pony up those lost federal dollars. People signing the Charter petitions need to know the answer, as do those volunteers who'll be putting in long hours in the cold and darkness over the next ten days collecting signatures. The city definitely can afford to build the project with all of its own money. Paying for the entire project and operations out of the existing budget would increase its current burden on the capital and operations budget from approximately 1% to approximately 2%.
December 11, 201311 yr The issue of what the Federal Government will do with its money if City Hall cancels the streetcar on the deadline day, December 19, 2013 is the million dollar question sharing the room with the Charter Amendment. The Federal Government has so far made it abundantly clear that it will immediately take back its money if City Hall votes to cancel on December 18. Has the Charter Amendment initiative changed this? Removing the Federal share of the funding leaves the streetcar project dead in the water, even if the voters approve the Charter Amendment later next year mandating the city to complete its construction. The city surely won't pony up those lost federal dollars. Another concern is that, even if the Feds keep their money in Cincinnati until after the Amendment has been put to a vote next spring, by the time said vote has been held all the contractors involved will have been standing idle for months, and their employees out of work if not reassigned to jobs elsewhere. I don't see how the contractors can afford to sit around idle. THEY will call it quits and declare the whole affair null and void! The only workable answer is if the Charter Amendment team succeeds in collecting the required number of legally certified voter signatures, the city is then required to immediately restart the streetcar project pending the outcome of the vote next spring, thus fulfilling the Fed's requirements that the project remain on track and the money's kept in place. Is there any such requirement? Yes or no. Otherwise, why collect thousands of signatures for a project that can't be paid for and/or the contractors give up on because they can't stand around idle for months? The city surely isn't going to pony up those lost federal dollars. People signing the Charter petitions need to know the answer, as do those volunteers who'll be putting in long hours in the cold and darkness over the next ten days collecting signatures. The city definitely can afford to build the project with all of its own money. Paying for the entire project and operations out of the existing budget would increase its current burden on the capital and operations budget from approximately 1% to approximately 2%. But but... 700wlw said we would instantly become Bankrupt and 'worse than Detroit' If the streetcar is built
December 11, 201311 yr 450 people picked up petitions tonight, and the phone is still ringing with people wanting to know where to get them. Don't want to talk specifics about money except to say that it is pouring in. This level of organization is costly, and you can contribute here. https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=TO4E_wutGuazFuKIRSsRdkSTEkxhOlJ80iXZSKP5vxvqEo7hX9lPQ1W2-u0&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f8e263663d3faee8def8934b92a630e40b7fef61ab7e9fe63 The dam has started to crack. I'm so proud of you guys.
December 11, 201311 yr A statement from a local business, Lightborne https://www.facebook.com/notes/lightborne/our-thoughts-on-the-cincinnati-streetcar-project/10152012637963548 A lot of their clients are from outside of Cincinnati so the city's image is important to them. http://www.light-borne.com/
December 11, 201311 yr Would be amazing if more petitions are turned in than voted for Cranley. Amazing, but sad. If those that signed would have just voted we wouldn't be in this predicament.
December 11, 201311 yr Regarding @CincyStreetcar, the best quote in the blog linked below: "I live in a city. And in a city, we share." http://ejmcewan.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/a-quick-note-about-subsidization/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 11, 201311 yr ^-If this was any other city this would be something you'd be explaining to a child, not a popular political faction of adults.
December 11, 201311 yr From: cincySAL on: Today at 01:22:51 PM Amazing, but sad. If those that signed would have just voted we wouldn't be in this predicament. To cincySAL: I understand how you feel - this "Cranleymergency" has been a most remarkable wake-up call for everyone who didn't vote in the mayoral election. People won't soon forget this moment in Cincinnati's history, nor lose sight of how important it really is never to let our guard down, especially when we're thinking, "We've got it made in the shade - no worries now!" Who thought Cranley stood a snowball's chance in hell of being elected? Furthermore, the streetcar had already been approved (twice, no less), was funded and under construction - therefore safely beyond the reach of destructive marauders! Oh my, how mistaken we were on both counts - but now we're more than making up for our oversight by going to work to rescue our streetcar from the Grinch's grip.
December 11, 201311 yr Who thought Cranley stood a snowball's chance in hell of being elected? Um, the polls of likely voters did. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 11, 201311 yr What's done is done. We'll have plenty of time to stew over what when wrong later. For now, the focus needs to be on signatures and letters to Flynn/Mann I really hope we are constantly talking to the feds as well behind the scenes
December 11, 201311 yr Who thought Cranley stood a snowball's chance in hell of being elected? Um, the polls of likely voters did. Those were never made public. Only place I ever heard any murmurings about them was here.
December 11, 201311 yr I never saw any poll data here. But FakeCinEnquirer is right. What's done is done. Back to the streetcar.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 11, 201311 yr Those were never made public. Only place I ever heard any murmurings about them was here. Its extremely frustrating that they weren't, what kind of election doesn't have public polls beforehand?
December 11, 201311 yr I never saw any poll data here. But FakeCinEnquirer is right. What's done is done. Back to the streetcar.... So where did you see them? You make it sound like everyone should have known Cranley was in the lead, but that wasn't reported anywhere. Those were never made public. Only place I ever heard any murmurings about them was here. Its extremely frustrating that they weren't, what kind of election doesn't have public polls beforehand? Yes, I agree.
December 11, 201311 yr I never saw any poll data here. But FakeCinEnquirer is right. What's done is done. Back to the streetcar.... So where did you see them? You make it sound like everyone should have known Cranley was in the lead, but that wasn't reported anywhere. Those were never made public. Only place I ever heard any murmurings about them was here. Its extremely frustrating that they weren't, what kind of election doesn't have public polls beforehand? Yes, I agree. Curious, but as KJP says..."back to the streetcar."
December 11, 201311 yr So where did you see them? You make it sound like everyone should have known Cranley was in the lead, but that wasn't reported anywhere. It was reported by a speakers at the All Aboard Ohio fall meeting in Cincinnati. This speaker were not listed publicly. Membership has its privileges. ;) Now, let's get back to the streetcar or move this discussion to the Cranley thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 11, 201311 yr At least 50 petitions have been returned full(Much much more coming in). 24 signatures per petition. That's 1200 signatures(with much much more coming in) Over 700 petitions are still out there collecting
December 11, 201311 yr FYI.... Want to sign a petition or help potential signers find a petition? Use #cincystreetcarpetition on Twitter & Facebook to broadcast & find people with petitions to sign! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 201311 yr What's this I hear about Cranley, Flynn, and 4 Union reps holding a press conference tomorrow regarding the streetcar. Any guesses what it's about?
December 12, 201311 yr What's this I hear about Cranley, Flynn, and 4 Union reps holding a press conference tomorrow regarding the streetcar. Any guesses what it's about? Where are you getting this info? I haven't seen/heard anything. 4 union reps? Hmm...I'm guessing it won't be good whatever it is.
December 12, 201311 yr So basically a presser to say they oppose it because operating costs will cost city employee and fire jobs.
December 12, 201311 yr If Flynn is keeping an open mind (which I doubt he is) why isn't he avoiding this press conference that is most likely going to be all politics? I've never believed Flynn is keeping an open mind. We will see, though.
December 12, 201311 yr WVXU tweeted Unions are: FOP, Fire Local 48, AFSCME and CODE My guess is they are going to say "We, the providers of essential services to the public, don't want the streetcar because its going to take away money from us. So, we are signing a contract with the devil (John Cranley)."
December 12, 201311 yr Glass half full- if Mann is not there it's a good thing. Cranley is doing his best to make it look hopeless and dampen enthusiasm. Drive hard to the end. If his first four months are dominated by emotional streetcar debates, make him own it.
December 12, 201311 yr One Of The Local News Outlets Is Claiming They Know What Cranley Will Say... I Think Local 12
December 12, 201311 yr Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz): "Ch. 12 reporting that a private organization has offered to underwrite streetcar for 30 years and @JohnCranley will announce tomorrow."
December 12, 201311 yr Woah woah woah...that's quite the bit of hearsay. I'm just going to bury my head in the sand on this one. 9am can't come soon enough.
December 12, 201311 yr Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz): "Ch. 12 reporting that a private organization has offered to underwrite streetcar for 30 years and @JohnCranley will announce tomorrow." A manipulative politician will create strife and conflict, then ride in on a white to rescue all those from that conflict. But.... German Lopez @germanrlopez 4m Councilman @ChrisSeelbach says @Local12 report of private offer to underwrite streetcar operation costs is "not true." Regardless.... All Aboard Ohio @AllAboardOhio 3m If WKRC-TV12 is accurate that Cranley to announce private $ for @CincyStreetcar means we must stay strong & gather more petition signatures! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 201311 yr Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz): "Ch. 12 reporting that a private organization has offered to underwrite streetcar for 30 years and @JohnCranley will announce tomorrow." A manipulative politician will create strife and conflict, then ride in on a white to rescue all those from that conflict. But.... German Lopez @germanrlopez 4m Councilman @ChrisSeelbach says @Local12 report of private offer to underwrite streetcar operation costs is "not true." ^ Chris is correct.
December 12, 201311 yr Chris Wetterich (@ChrisCinciBiz): "Ch. 12 reporting that a private organization has offered to underwrite streetcar for 30 years and @JohnCranley will announce tomorrow." A manipulative politician will create strife and conflict, then ride in on a white to rescue all those from that conflict. But.... German Lopez @germanrlopez 4m Councilman @ChrisSeelbach says @Local12 report of private offer to underwrite streetcar operation costs is "not true." ^ Chris is correct. lol. which chris?
December 12, 201311 yr So keep collecting more petition signatures. I suspect Cranely's announcement is intended to erode and weaken the petition signature collection effort. If so, he is staying true to form. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 201311 yr For the channel 12 story: www.local12.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/future-cincinnati-streetcar-gets-brighter-6069.shtml True or not, the story has a good positive spin, only having quotes from pro-streetcar folks.
December 12, 201311 yr Seelbach is correct. It's not true. Why would the FOP be there for that? I hope Cranley gets up there and whines with the cops and firemen about how a signature is a pink slip for public safety. Then an hour later someone announces private funding for operating costs. If that private money ever comes to fruition, he will try to take credit for it. By timing an announcement in that manner, he'd have a harder time doing so. Not to mention egg all over his face.
December 12, 201311 yr Even if it's both Chris', one doesn't cancel out the other. Chris Wetterich is reporting a proposed announcement by Cranley that Chris Seelbach says has no foundation in truth. The announcement is likely intended by Cranley to "defang" the petition collection effort. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 201311 yr I'm pretty sure he received an order of magnitude more than 6,388 votes. Yep, that seemed low. That was actually the number of votes he got in the primary. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 12, 201311 yr This is insane. I hope its true, but...I find it hard to believe that someone/some company is willing to pledge $90-150 million dollars to this project over 30 years. It would be a dream come true, but I doubt it. Also, I can't believe Channel 12 is reporting something like that without knowing if its absolutely true or not.
December 12, 201311 yr Also, talk about gaining national attention: Anchorage, Alaska is talking about us! http://www.adn.com/2013/12/09/3221929/group-trying-to-save-cincinnati.html
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