I think that their problem with the Sorta offer will be that Sorta gets much of its funding from the City.

I think that their problem with the Sorta offer will be that Sorta gets much of its funding from the City.

 

I was wondering about this myself... Cranley could very well reject the offer saying that the City would still be indirectly paying for operations...

Sure, but they are not really in a position to take back that funding.  The people voted that a portion of the earnings tax operate SORTA.  It's not like they can just change that.  The city has its say in its appointees to the SORTA board. 

wlwt tweeted that they would be live streaming it.

I suppose they could hold a press conference taking credit for getting the operating expense off the backs of the taxpayers…

 

Lol…Nah

^ I am starting to think that this is a possibility.  But I am a glass half full kinda guy.

I bet they will say the streetcar will continue. Just a hunch.

 

However, they will also say what an injustice it is to the people of Cincinnati that the prior council hamstrung their efforts to get out of the boondoggle that is the streetcar.

Tweet from 700WLW:

 

Amy Murray says SORTA offer doesn't change anything... SORTA still funded by City. Wonders why funding was planned years ago.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/mayor-cranley-reacts-to-sorta-streetcar-funding-announcement/-/13549970/23528892/-/r3b0sd/-/index.html

 

Also: Bill Rinehart‏@700BillRinehart2m

Amy Murray says SORTA offer doesn't change anything... SORTA still funded by City. Wonders why funding was planned years ago.

^ A preview of today's press conference...

This is simply astonishing.  Nothing will change their minds

http://www.local12.com/news/features/live-events/

 

Try this one if wlwt isn't working.

WCPO is also streaming.  No sign of the Mayor yet.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/live

He rejected the offer.  This is astonishing

Cranley: We need it off of the city's books.

 

SORTA: We can do the deal.

 

Cranley: "We appreciate the Haile Foundation and SORTAs commitment and offers, but it's insufficient." "If private support can fund the operation for 30 years, "then I'll support it."

Pretty clear that Cranley just doesnt want a streetcar, no matter what the deal is.  All that COAST money has infected him.

Says he doesn't want to cut services.  News flash: if you cancel it, you will have to cut services.

 

Pure ideologue.  Who has nude pics of Crancelly?

What a show. He's still in campaign mode. I think he senses the sentiment turning against him. The real question is what is Flynn doing there?

Tweet from 700WLW:

 

Amy Murray says SORTA offer doesn't change anything... SORTA still funded by City. Wonders why funding was planned years ago.

 

After 2009 the casino money was slated to fund the streetcar.  Not sure why this has been forgotten.

 

SORTA is funded with a city earnings tax, that fund goes directly to SORTA.  City has no say over how it is spent.

 

 

 

 

Hmm. I don't think you have Flynn. Unless they are playing some game of chicken with some other big private interests to get them to step in tomorrow in some eleventh hour revelation, it looks like bad news. Sorry guys. That sucks. :(

What a show. He's still in campaign mode. I think he senses the sentiment turning against him. The real question is what is Flynn doing there?

 

Yes, inquiring minds want to know why.  One possible angle could have to do with the fact that Flynn financed his own campaign for council.  Reporters need to dig around and find out more about his personal finances.  I really hate to think a payoff could be a factor in all of this.  He was an ardent streetcar supporter when he ran before.  Something's fishy.

Another punch to the gut. Is anyone surprised? Are the petitions even a realistic hope?

Flynn is absolutely in Cranley's back pocket, but I wonder what the reason is? You can just tell by the way he speaks, I don't think he believes the misguided statements that Cranley makes, but he goes along with it anyway.

Everything the city is doing now is hurting ANY companies recruiting and not just in the city but  the  as well region.

Flynn says that if the audit comes back and costs are close to cancelling v. continuing, he will still need answers on operating costs.  But, "we still have 2 days" to figure it out.  Ugh... These guys are just sickening...

I think the Streetcar project should happen, but was there really no plan for operation costs?

Cranley through out the old plan.  It was to be funded by casino revenues.

The plan was to use new casino revenues to cover the $1-$2 million shortfall every year. Way less than the new $8+ million the casino will return.

I think the Streetcar project should happen, but was there really no plan for operation costs?

 

There's a plan, the new mayor just wants to do things like give everyone another trash can with the money instead.

Obviously there needs to be a full court press on Flynn from supporters.  I still think he can be convinced. 

Tweet from 700WLW:

 

Amy Murray says SORTA offer doesn't change anything... SORTA still funded by City. Wonders why funding was planned years ago.

 

After 2009 the casino money was slated to fund the streetcar.  Not sure why this has been forgotten.

 

SORTA is funded with a city earnings tax, that fund goes directly to SORTA.  City has no say over how it is spent.

 

 

 

 

 

Jake, would you mind refreshing our memories about what you've said before about Cranley having helped cause the current pension dilemma?

Cranley through out the old plan.  It was to be funded by casino revenues.

 

What was the given reasoning and why did no one call him out on it during the press conference. Seems like an obvious response to his argument that operating costs should have been figured out years ago.

I can't even stand to listen to all this anymore.  I've signed the petition and helped get signatures for it.  Thats all I can do.  This is going to have to go on the ballot.  Regardless of if the feds pull our money we need to make sure this phase is built.  If Cranley wants to make it cost more by helping us lose our federal support, fine.  That will be on his hands, but the streetcar will be finished.

Cranley through out the old plan.  It was to be funded by casino revenues.

 

What was the given reasoning and why did no one call him out on it during the press conference. Seems like an obvious response to his argument that operating costs should have been figured out years ago.

 

I was wondering the same thing.  They are allowed to repeat their lies until people start believing them because no one calls them out!

 

I would have also liked someone to ask why a private company would agree to pay the operational costs of a public infrastructure project without the ability to collect any ROI.  Cranley talked about straw man arguments in terms of suggesting that the redevelopment of OTR will not continue without the streetcar.  The biggest straw man argument put forth has been his willingness to proceed if a company was to take over the costs of operation for 30 years. 

The plan was to use new casino revenues to cover the $1-$2 million shortfall every year. Way less than the new $8+ million the casino will return.

 

To the prior council and mayor this revenue was 'new', thus they were not eating into current funds for the expenses. To the new council this revenue is just part of the overall bucket of funds, and using it is therefore eating into other expenses. Considering the new mayor was counting on $20million in casino revenue to balance his budget and the actual amount is half that, there is no way he could be convinced that this is a 'proper' funding source.

 

Hopefully there was a plan B, C and D out there, and I am not talking about the petitions. If they get peppered with reasonable offers and turn them all down, make them look as unreasonable as possible.

I can't even stand to listen to all this anymore.  I've signed the petition and helped get signatures for it.  Thats all I can do.  This is going to have to go on the ballot.  Regardless of if the feds pull our money we need to make sure this phase is built.  If Cranley wants to make it cost more by helping us lose our federal support, fine.  That will be on his hands, but the streetcar will be finished.

 

Building it without Federal money at all sounds like a complete nightmare.  Plus, if a ballot initiative is passed, the construction companies would have been stopped for so long that I would imagine resuming construction would have to be treated as a new contract, which would almost assuredly be higher.  I think even a lot of streetcar supporters would be hesitant to move forward without Federal funds.

Cranley through out the old plan.  It was to be funded by casino revenues.

 

What was the given reasoning and why did no one call him out on it during the press conference. Seems like an obvious response to his argument that operating costs should have been figured out years ago.

 

I was wondering the same thing.  They are allowed to repeat their lies until people start believing them because no one calls them out!

 

Let's give them a chance to address Cranley's assertions in any forthcoming articles.

Obviously there needs to be a full court press on Flynn from supporters.  I still think he can be convinced. 

 

...or maybe a full court press from reporters.

I can't even stand to listen to all this anymore.  I've signed the petition and helped get signatures for it.  Thats all I can do.  This is going to have to go on the ballot.  Regardless of if the feds pull our money we need to make sure this phase is built.  If Cranley wants to make it cost more by helping us lose our federal support, fine.  That will be on his hands, but the streetcar will be finished.

 

Building it without Federal money at all sounds like a complete nightmare.  Plus, if a ballot initiative is passed, the construction companies would have been stopped for so long that I would imagine resuming construction would have to be treated as a new contract, which would almost assuredly be higher.  I think even a lot of streetcar supporters would be hesitant to move forward without Federal funds.

 

I would do it just to spite Cranley.  If he wants to come into our city and screw things up for us this bad, we need to make sure he accomplishes nothing during his 4 years here and that we make sure he's voted out next election.  We need to make sure he never hears the end of the streetcar one way or another.

 

 

Building it without Federal money at all sounds like a complete nightmare.  Plus, if a ballot initiative is passed, the construction companies would have been stopped for so long that I would imagine resuming construction would have to be treated as a new contract, which would almost assuredly be higher.  I think even a lot of streetcar supporters would be hesitant to move forward without Federal funds.

 

Disagree.  This is a great project that does all the right things and needs to be completed.  If it wasn't for all the shenanigans and the lack of foresight on Qualls' part when she insisted on the uptown extention, it would likely be competed by now.

 

Recognize that by refusing to address the issues and by tossing up straw men, the antis demonstrate no respect for their fellow citizens.  If Cranley wants to disclaim any responsibility for previous administrations, I'm certainly not going to give a fig about the stupid and harmful choices this guy makes.  If the charter amendment makes it harder for him, so be it.

Some of Cranley's lies today:

 

"SORTA can't operate the streetcar without cutting bus service" -- Metro's board and CEO assured the city that bus service would not be affected by the operation of the streetcar.

 

"Nobody rides the San Diego streetcar" - actually, it has 89,400 average daily riders.

Anyone hear of a response from David Mann after the presser?  We're going to need both him and Flynn...

I would love to see the city charter vote pass just to put Cranley in between a rock and a hard place. Let's see him react to a vote basically saying OK dumm ass you wouldn't agree to a reasonable solution, how do you like this one?

I just finished watching the Mayor's news conference re: SORTA's announcement, and heard Flynn speak as one of its four participants. Cranley has made it clear, barring some "miraculous last-minute announcement" that truly saves the day, that he intends to override Council if only five councilors vote to continue and complete the streetcar on Thursday.

 

My gut feeling is that SORTA's announcement may actually have done the streetcar's cause more harm than good.

 

Given what SORTA is - Cincinnati's provider of bus service and an agency essentially dependent on the city for a part of its funding, should never have entered the fray. How could SORTA's staff NOT have known that Cranley would ask THE tough question: what resources do you have that I can count on to be there to guarantee the streetcar's operating costs? 

 

SORTA's spokesperson could only come up with $1 million from the Haile U.S. Bank Foundation plus vague promises based on vague hopes.  THAT sure wasn't gonna cut it with Cranley!

 

Cranley and a majority of City Councilors appear to be ready to say, "We would much rather pay all the costs of cancellation, including returning the $45 million to the Feds and paying all the lawsuits arising from terminating contracts, etc., than saddle the city with eighty million dollars in operating costs for the streetcar over the next thirty years. Our city's reputation may take a hit in the process, but that's not our big worry."

 

The audit, whatever number it produces, does not look like it's going to have much if any impact one way or the other on how Council votes this Thursday. I'll go so far as to assert that the audit is meaningless.

 

As things look now, the vote on the streetcar this Thursday will be the same as it was on December 4: four opposed to cancelling, six in favor.

 

It's unlikely private industry will step forward to save it, not in the next 48 hours anyway. At the news conference Cranley himself stated that the majority of Cincinnati's big firms do not support the streetcar and aren't interested in underwriting or guaranteeing its operating costs.

 

I don't see how the streetcar can be pulled out of the fire by Thursday night if we're counting on Cranley and his majority on City Council to change their minds. 

 

We have our Charter Amendment Ballot Initiative, which is very important and potentially valuable, but without the Federal dollars, what can we realistically hope to do? 

 

I expect the Feds, as promised, will take back their funds when Council votes to cancel on Thursday. They've already bent over backwards to accommodate the city.

 

The best we can do is attend both tomorrow's and Thursday's council meetings and make our voices heard.

 

Doubt there'll be anyone present listening to what we have to say besides the four councilors on our side.

I don't know...we'll see on Dec. 19th. I don't have a very good feeling...

I expect the Feds, as promised, will take back their funds when Council votes to cancel on Thursday. They've already bent over backwards to accommodate the city.

 

My guess is that the FTA would put a hold on the money pending on a vote by the citizens, should enough signatures be turned in (which sounds like a certainty).  The FTA is not giving Cranley an extension, but it's also not trying to kill the project either.  That said, if the FTA pulls the funds and the charter amendment still passes, replacing that funding is Cranley's problem to figure out.

FTA head Peter Rogoff has already replied to City Council's letter sent yesterday. Considering what transpired this afternoon, it is interesting that he he advocates for the “earliest and strongest involvement of the area transit provider” in streetcar projects.  That would be SORTA...  The full text of the letter is attached at the link. Definitely worth a read.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2013/12/17/feds-weigh-in-on-transit-involvement-in-streetcar/

Building it without Federal money at all sounds like a complete nightmare.  Plus, if a ballot initiative is passed, the construction companies would have been stopped for so long that I would imagine resuming construction would have to be treated as a new contract, which would almost assuredly be higher.  I think even a lot of streetcar supporters would be hesitant to move forward without Federal funds.

 

Disagree.  This is a great project that does all the right things and needs to be completed.  If it wasn't for all the shenanigans and the lack of foresight on Qualls' part when she insisted on the uptown extention, it would likely be competed by now.

 

Recognize that by refusing to address the issues and by tossing up straw men, the antis demonstrate no respect for their fellow citizens.  If Cranley wants to disclaim any responsibility for previous administrations, I'm certainly not going to give a fig about the stupid and harmful choices this guy makes.  If the charter amendment makes it harder for him, so be it.

 

I don't disagree entirely, but I don't think the voters will pass the charter amendment if Federal funding is pulled.  I think there would also be quite a few people opposed to altering the city charter to require the city to build one specific project.  That's not good governance, and I think the majority here would agree with that. 

Anyone hear of a response from David Mann after the presser?  We're going to need both him and Flynn...

 

It's a long shot at best that either man will side with the streetcar supporters - Flynn was clearly echoing the Mayor's side of the argument at today's news conference. I haven't a clue about Mann - we know that Cranley will put enormous pressure on both men to cancel.

^Interesting that Winburn wasn't at the press conference today.  Maybe he and Mann will be our saving grace...