Mann and Murray reflect on their trip to Portland:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/portland-cincinnati-streetcar-david-mann/6930051/

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/murray-portland-streetcar-depends-citizens/6931271/

 

Murray sounds refreshingly committed to making the project a success.

 

Both are overly focused on the "Special Improvement District" financing structure (where is the call for that regarding the MLK interchange?), but I'd say there is more positive here than negative. Murray doesn't even suggest she's against expansion. Mann hints at support for regional LRT.

Now THAT is great news.

Sounds like we're going to be hearing about a special tax district proposal soon!  Which, honestly, I've always been a big fan of anyway.  I think it would make a lot more people in the suburbs happy to see that the people who live downtown are actually paying for a lot of the project themselves.  It may make gaining support for expansions easier.

 

Mann and Murray reflect on their trip to Portland:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/portland-cincinnati-streetcar-david-mann/6930051/

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/murray-portland-streetcar-depends-citizens/6931271/

 

Murray sounds refreshingly committed to making the project a success.

 

Both are overly focused on the "Special Improvement District" financing structure (where is the call for that regarding the MLK interchange?), but I'd say there is more positive here than negative. Murray doesn't even suggest she's against expansion. Mann hints at support for regional LRT.

Agreed - there was a reason that it couldn't be implemented, though - correct? Wasn't there an overlaying district?

NOTE: The conversation about municipal income taxes has moved here: Ohio Municipal Income Tax

 

Carry on.

How would the special tax district work in terms of funding future expansions? Would that money be able to fund a line that left the district without any sort of approval being necessary?

The only SID is DCI that stops at central pkwy.

 

SIDs cannot overlap but there are few other restrictions.

 

I live on elm. I could pay into a SID that would directly fund an entire streetcar network through a nongovernmental entity. This is what DCI is.

 

The main restriction is owner approval. But I think if owners approved we could fund a streetcar system in Dayton.

 

From my perspective as a property owner on the phase 1 line the network becomes more valuable to me the larger it is. Logically the SIDs could follow line development and their formation and approval could affect which lines are built out in what order. I'd assume they would get easier to pass the larger the network becomes.

The only SID is DCI that stops at central pkwy.

 

Is that a state law? It seems really messed up. Why can't there be several things being funded by overlapping SIDs?

 

It strikes me as a huge reason not to fund the streetcar in this manner. There are likely to be other localized improvements for which the benefits will be more concentrated than an upgrade to the transportation network.

Yes. I would guess it was a compromise to avoid confusion and proliferation of SIDs.

 

As far as I'm concerned I'd be for anything that created movement toward a more robust network. You can say that it would restrict other possibilities that are appropriate for SIDs, but the fact is that the only SID we have in the entire region is the DCI one. So there doesn't seem to be a great demand to create them.

I know we want to create allies, but I had to chuckle at different times with each letter.  It's as if Murray tried to distance herself from the project throughout the letter even though she is going to be in charge of it.  I also appreciated this gem from Mann....really?  You don't say?  This is the first time anyone has made these points:

 

It is also worth underscoring a point made by Rick Gustafson, who leads Portland Streetcar Inc., the nonprofit company that operates the Portland streetcars. Yes, streetcars move people and provide for public transportation, but perhaps the major benefit from a streetcar system is in the substantial economic development that occurs because of the fixed streetcar line, development that would occur in a diminished form without it. This development attracts new taxpaying residents and adds to the real estate tax base.

 

Mann and Murray reflect on their trip to Portland:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/portland-cincinnati-streetcar-david-mann/6930051/

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/03/26/murray-portland-streetcar-depends-citizens/6931271/

 

Murray sounds refreshingly committed to making the project a success.

 

Both are overly focused on the "Special Improvement District" financing structure (where is the call for that regarding the MLK interchange?), but I'd say there is more positive here than negative. Murray doesn't even suggest she's against expansion. Mann hints at support for regional LRT.

The only SID is DCI that stops at central pkwy.

 

How do we have Ambassadors in Over the Rhine without DCI?

I don't know, but I do know that the DCI SID doesn't extend that far.

 

I'd guess that it's because DCI isn't owned or exclusive to the CBD SID (which I previously misleadingly called the DCI SID). I'd assume that DCI, under contract to the CBD SID, provides the downtown ambassadors, while they have another contract with 3CDC for OTR.

For the curious here is the current operating plan for the downtown SID.

 

http://downtowncincinnati.com/docs/default-source/Stakeholder-Docs/2014-2017_services_plan.pdf?sfvrsn=6

I don't know, but I do know that the DCI SID doesn't extend that far.

 

I'd guess that it's because DCI isn't owned or exclusive to the CBD SID (which I previously misleadingly called the DCI SID). I'd assume that DCI, under contract to the CBD SID, provides the downtown ambassadors, while they have another contract with 3CDC for OTR.

You guys are killing me. What is SID and DCI?

Downtown Cincinnati Incorporated and Special Improvement District

They should really just grow some stones and simply raise the property tax rate for the entire City, then roll it back for all areas outside of the streetcar zone (I think this was a thomasbw suggestion), and dedicate that revenue to Streetcar operations.  Then, with each expansion portion, you just get rid of the rollback.

How do we have Ambassadors in Over the Rhine without DCI?

 

I don't know, but I do know that the DCI SID doesn't extend that far.

 

I'd guess that it's because DCI isn't owned or exclusive to the CBD SID (which I previously misleadingly called the DCI SID). I'd assume that DCI, under contract to the CBD SID, provides the downtown ambassadors, while they have another contract with 3CDC for OTR.

 

3CDC contracts DCI to provide the Ambassador in OTR - last I checked there was one that served OTR.

Yes. I would guess it was a compromise to avoid confusion and proliferation of SIDs.

 

As far as I'm concerned I'd be for anything that created movement toward a more robust network. You can say that it would restrict other possibilities that are appropriate for SIDs, but the fact is that the only SID we have in the entire region is the DCI one. So there doesn't seem to be a great demand to create them.

 

There also were never tolls before on Ohio River crossings, but that's become a thing. KY just passed into law legislation for public-private partnerships, and we've seen them have a huge impact in Ohio with 3CDC. Alternative funding structures are not going away, and the SID is a powerful tool that I believe will become much more common. The fact that there's only one now means very little IMO. Austerity is the rule of the day, and hyper-local funding is on the rise. Let's use it wisely and discriminately, for projects where the impact is on a similarly small scale.

There were tolls on the Ohio River bridges for nearly 100 years until 1963 when the Brent Spence Bridge opened. 

^I think there was a 10 cent toll on one of the bridges as recently as 30 years ago.  It might have been the purple people bridge, or possibly I'm thinking of the 4th street bridge between Covington and Newport.  I was too young to really know the difference.

The roadwork downtown for the streetcar is incredibly annoying.  They have been working on Main and Walnut for months, and just when I thought they were done and had moved on to other blocks, new work begins at the same locations.  I'm guessing the first round of work was for Duke, and now they're doing some of the water work.  It's incredibly annoying that they can't do it at the same time. And the fact that construction will come back to these same spots yet again when the tracks are laid is frustrating again.

 

I know this is the price of progress, but as someone who has to navigate through it everyday, it's incredibly annoying.  It's loud, causes terrible traffic around rush hour and events, closes down sidewalks...Ugh. I wish they could just hurry up and be done with it.

 

rant over

^I think there was a 10 cent toll on one of the bridges as recently as 30 years ago.  It might have been the purple people bridge, or possibly I'm thinking of the 4th street bridge between Covington and Newport.  I was too young to really know the difference.

 

Yes.

http://www.covingtonusa.com/tolls-charged-in-area.html

Lets stay focused, everyone.

I admit I was wrong on that detail, but I think the broader point still stands.

The roadwork downtown for the streetcar is incredibly annoying.  They have been working on Main and Walnut for months, and just when I thought they were done and had moved on to other blocks, new work begins at the same locations.  I'm guessing the first round of work was for Duke, and now they're doing some of the water work.  It's incredibly annoying that they can't do it at the same time. And the fact that construction will come back to these same spots yet again when the tracks are laid is frustrating again.

 

I know this is the price of progress, but as someone who has to navigate through it everyday, it's incredibly annoying.  It's loud, causes terrible traffic around rush hour and events, closes down sidewalks...Ugh. I wish they could just hurry up and be done with it.

 

rant over

 

Yeah it sucks. Walnut will probably be done with major construction by the end of the year. Main will finish up in middle of 2015 according to the track laying schedule.

Alternative funding structures are not going away, and the SID is a powerful tool that I believe will become much more common. The fact that there's only one now means very little IMO. Austerity is the rule of the day, and hyper-local funding is on the rise. Let's use it wisely and discriminately, for projects where the impact is on a similarly small scale.

 

I can't disagree with that. But politics is funny and unpredictable, right? My point is only that if somebody put together a comprehensive SID plan to go along with an equally comprehensive network expansion plan, and the SID component was thought to be instrumental/essential to getting the network expansion accomplished in the short(er) run, then I'd be for it.

 

You could use, say, neighborhood boundaries as SID boundaries, which might be appropriately local. Perhaps SID passage/payments could be used to support operations and capital for the stops, and so be tied somehow to the number of stops in the neighborhood. It sounds messy, but of course lots of complex things do, until the right person is charged with pulling it apart and developing the plan. And you'd think the whole process could be replicated so that it wasn't so hard after the first one.

 

I wish I knew how the Portland folks had structured their local districts that helped pay...

Alternative funding structures are not going away, and the SID is a powerful tool that I believe will become much more common. The fact that there's only one now means very little IMO. Austerity is the rule of the day, and hyper-local funding is on the rise. Let's use it wisely and discriminately, for projects where the impact is on a similarly small scale.

 

I can't disagree with that. But politics is funny and unpredictable, right? My point is only that if somebody put together a comprehensive SID plan to go along with an equally comprehensive network expansion plan, and the SID component was thought to be instrumental/essential to getting the network expansion accomplished in the short(er) run, then I'd be for it.

 

You could use, say, neighborhood boundaries as SID boundaries, which might be appropriately local. Perhaps SID passage/payments could be used to support operations and capital for the stops, and so be tied somehow to the number of stops in the neighborhood. It sounds messy, but of course lots of complex things do, until the right person is charged with pulling it apart and developing the plan. And you'd think the whole process could be replicated so that it wasn't so hard after the first one.

 

I'd have to actually see a proposal to say if I'm wholesale against it, but I'm just trying to be a voice of caution. I think Mann and Murray are being a little reckless without considering all angles.

 

I wish I knew how the Portland folks had structured their local districts that helped pay...

 

Yes, these details have been glossed over so far. The details matter a lot IMO.

The roadwork downtown for the streetcar is incredibly annoying.  They have been working on Main and Walnut for months, and just when I thought they were done and had moved on to other blocks, new work begins at the same locations.  I'm guessing the first round of work was for Duke, and now they're doing some of the water work.  It's incredibly annoying that they can't do it at the same time. And the fact that construction will come back to these same spots yet again when the tracks are laid is frustrating again.

 

I know this is the price of progress, but as someone who has to navigate through it everyday, it's incredibly annoying.  It's loud, causes terrible traffic around rush hour and events, closes down sidewalks...Ugh. I wish they could just hurry up and be done with it.

 

rant over

 

I think they have been installing a new gas or water main over the past few months... now they are going back and actually connecting everyone to it so that they can decommission the old one.

 

It is a pain, but there is going to be a ton of construction downtown over the next two years. That is the cost of having a brand new rail transportation system. OTR was the easy part. It will be worth it in the end.

^ On another project Duke took over a year to complete a gas main replacement. The main and the services were done separately. Concrete sidewalks were demolished and replaced with asphalt sidewalks for a very long time. The very last step was to restore the concrete sidewalks.

 

^ On another project Duke took over a year to complete a gas main replacement. The main and the services were done separately. Concrete sidewalks were demolished and replaced with asphalt sidewalks for a very long time. The very last step was to restore the concrete sidewalks.

 

 

The broken sidewalks are one of my biggest concerns. We've put a lot of money into fixing up streetscapes in OTR, and we've seen the positive impact it has on local businesses. I also don't think that any of the curb-to-curb repaving will occur until the very end of the project, which is a shame. Some of the pavement on Race is in very poor condition and does not meet the new concrete smoothly. I hope that they can accelerate some of this work to minimize the amount of time that sidewalks have big asphalt patches.

Taking the long view ... we're going to have an entirely new and highly reliable utility infrastructure in most of downtown and Over-the-Rhine when all of the streetcar and gas replacement work is complete.  It's remarkable this has happened. This, plus a couple new parks, some new schools, hotels and the streetcar -- you can paint a really positive future for Cincinnati, especially as this spreads out into other neighborhoods.

^ It makes me wish they were building light rail tracks on Madison Road through Hyde Park and Oakley.  The gas and water main work that's been going on has had the poor street ravaged, at least in sections, for some 5 years now. 

http://www.wlwt.com/news/students-to-ride-streetcar-in-opening-day-parade/25238804

 

If this is a replica.  Boy does it look ugly.

It's a bunch of 4th graders.  They did a hell of a lot better than I would've done in 4th grade.

Here’s how much the December streetcar pause cost in time and money: EXCLUSIVE

December’s pause in the streetcar project – while officials considered whether to cancel it – cost the city about $1 million, but it will not push back the date on which people will be able to ride it for the first time.

 

The pause will cost the city $987,108, according to a draft copy of a presentation project leaders will present to the Cincinnati City Council’s transportation committee this afternoon.

 

The delay in the $133 million project won’t ultimately mean moving back the start date for service. The streetcar is expected to be finished on Sept. 15, 2016. That's the same date as before the pause.

 

Cont

http://www.wlwt.com/news/students-to-ride-streetcar-in-opening-day-parade/25238804

 

If this is a replica.  Boy does it look ugly.

 

streetcar cult zealots corrupting our youth

http://www.wlwt.com/news/students-to-ride-streetcar-in-opening-day-parade/25238804

 

If this is a replica.  Boy does it look ugly.

 

streetcar cult zealots corrupting our youth

 

The subhead on that story is "Float is replica of line under construction." Does that even make sense? It was a replica of the vehicles/trains/cars/LRVs under construction. The parade did not follow the streetcar route so it is not a replica of the "line." Local media outlets remain illiterate on all matters related to rail transit.

Construction photos from April 1, 2014:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't realize they were about to lay track in Central Parkway.  Now there will be rails above and below....

^Well, technically, rails were never placed in the subway tunnels.

I was riding across & along some of the finished tracks for the first yesterday. It is SOOO much nicer than the old abandoned tracks I had to contend with as a kid up in Springfield.

^Well, technically, rails were never placed in the subway tunnels.

 

Way to ruin it for me!  ;)

So...the maintenance facility is a lot smaller than I thought it would be.  Is the rest of the lot just going to be an open-air parking lot for trains?

The total capacity is going to be something like 12-14 streetcars, but initially they're building it for fewer than that.  There will be 2 or 3 switches from Henry St. leading into the facility and another on Race south from the curve.  So initially there will be tracks for streetcars to park in a north/south configuration but if they expand it there will be a few more tracks where they will park east/west off of Race St.  Paul Grether told me that they will build that switch track on Race but it won't lead to anything initially.  They haven't installed any trackwork on Race or Henry yet because of all the switches.  They're waiting until the crews are very experienced before building any of the switches on the system. 

That's interesting. I was under the impression that the maintenance facility would be built to its final size. It's good to see intelligent thinking for the future since that helps convince non-supporters that Cranley's statements of incompetence aren't actually correct.

 

So now that straight track is approaching a point of being completely installed in OTR other than 12th Street, what's the schedule for the near future? I remember seeing it somewhere but can't seem to find the exact schedule. Are they going to continue with straight track installation into Downtown and then handle turns and switches after that or are they planning to complete the OTR section in its entirety and then move on to Downtown?

 

 

The Fifth pic in Jake's series shows the path to the right of St. Phillipus Church that the streetcar could take to Uptown, going north of Henry and under Clifton Avenue. It's pretty open.

 

 

 

Cranley called attempts to pursue an extended streetcar phase 'absurd' & said that he will 'fight extended phases like he fought the first phase'

 

 

That's interesting. I was under the impression that the maintenance facility would be built to its final size. It's good to see intelligent thinking for the future since that helps convince non-supporters that Cranley's statements of incompetence aren't actually correct.

 

So now that straight track is approaching a point of being completely installed in OTR other than 12th Street, what's the schedule for the near future? I remember seeing it somewhere but can't seem to find the exact schedule. Are they going to continue with straight track installation into Downtown and then handle turns and switches after that or are they planning to complete the OTR section in its entirety and then move on to Downtown?

 

At the pace they're going it seems like they'll have everything done in OTR by the end of the summer.  They are waiting until after the Reds season to install track across FWW and on 2nd St.  As for downtown south of Central Parkway I don't know.

 

Also it's just matter of time, if it hasn't happened already, that Cranley's son will see those tracks being installed and ask about them.  It'll be a delicious moment. 

 

 

Also it's just matter of time, if it hasn't happened already, that Cranley's son will see those tracks being installed and ask about them.  It'll be a delicious moment.

 

Gold Star delicious or Skyline delicious?

Also it's just matter of time, if it hasn't happened already, that Cranley's son will see those tracks being installed and ask about them.  It'll be a delicious moment.

 

Gold Star delicious or Skyline delicious?

 

Yeah was Jimmy Carter snubbing Cranley last night when he patronized Skyline?