^Thanks for posting, I just had a neighbor ask about our streetlight situation, so that may come in handy.

 

Anyway, I was thinking about my Uptown 5 route plan (reference it here and here ), and was thinking about combining the two shortest routes (Auburn Ave and Short Vine to Zoo,) meaning the streetcar wouldn’t turn around at the transit center but continue on as if it was just another stop for those routes.  But the transit center diagram I drew wouldn’t accommodate that, and that coupled with the comments I received meant I couldn’t resist redrawing my transit center diagram with surrounding development.  The new diagram narrows everything down to a single stop. 

 

 

As for the block labeled “University Tower,” I really wonder what a skyscraper (something 20-30 stories or more) would look like in that location.  I wonder how it would alter the look of Cincinnati skyline from the cut-in-the-hill vista coming into town on I-75, and from other locations.  Maybe it would tower over the buildings in the basin from the edge of the hillside there.  I’m guessing such a proposal has never been made to the city. 

 

There are probably a million ways you could do this location if the land was made available, so my future uptown streetcar posts will probably focus more on the routes themselves. 

 

^  Your creative streetcar thinking here is appreciated and should remain the focus of the thread--however, your idea of a "University Tower" was actually proposed years ago in the form of a colossal 100+ story structure!  Such an idea was the brainchild of some sort of reverend who hoped investors would buy into his grand plans.  (If I'm not mistaken, the monumental tower would have become a super high-rise residence for senior-citizens!)  Needless to say, both the reverend and his money-making schemes disappeared from the local news shortly afterwards.

Not to veer off topic, but the idea of a 100-story tower at the top of the hills is saner than 100 stories of senior citizen housing.  Can you imagine a fire alarm going off and everyone having to take to the stairs? 

Yeah, somebody though of that already:

thebillshark, I think your design is coming together nicely! I wonder if it would be better to make those 90-degree turns a bit smoother, reshaping the buildings to be less rectangular (thereby shortening travel times). Overall, I think this looks nice! The garage is in a nice location, where it can be accessed from both Corry and WHT. (I wish a garage could be skipped, but I know reality dictates otherwise.)

 

What a fantastic node of true-blue transit-oriented development this would be. Jefferson route = Missed opportunity.

^^That Sander Hall story is a fascinating story that I just learned about from your post, and about the same size and location I am talking about.  As a child of the early 80's I don't remember this story from 1991 and haven't heard all the details since, even though I am a UC Alum.  I found a pretty good video here:  http://magazine.uc.edu/favorites/web-only/sander.html  Tallest building to be imploded in the United States at the time, and the youngest of that size to be imploded.  Built 1971 and abandoned by 1982! ( https://sites.google.com/site/ucwalks/points-of-interest/schneider-and-sanders-halls ).  The roof was the highest point in Hamilton County.  The main reason given is that it wasn't up to fire code.  Is there a cautionary tale there about overbuilding for demand, a statement on the time and place, or something about a gap between design and intended use?  Maybe, but not being too familiar with this story I can't really tell. 

 

On another note, Vox.com, German Lopez's (from City Beat) new outfit, published a blistering commentary on mixed traffic streetcars yesterday, actually calling them "evil":  http://www.vox.com/2014/7/25/5937215/dc-streetcar-disaster-mixed-traffic-streetcars-are-evil (Written by Matthew Yglesias, not German, also be sure to launch the "cards" after the article for more info.)  While I think you can argue with his conclusions, obviously a dedicated right of way is preferable.  Any possibility of retrofitting our downtown/OTR system with dedicated right of way after it's up and running, perhaps that it could share with buses?  Granted I'm usually riding my bike downtown on nights and weekends and not rush hour, but traffic seems light on the North/South streets.  Are there technical reasons against it, a lack of political will, or both? 

The context of every new streetcar project (and extension) is different.  This article barely took note of this.  In Cincinnati the streetcars will, with the exception of a few blocks on lightly-traveled 12th St., travel on one-way streets enabling traffic to pass stopped streetcars. 

 

Friday night was the busiest I have ever seen DT Cincinnati in my life.  There were simultaneous events at both stadiums, Fountain Square, and Washington Park.  Most traffic congestion was on Vine St.  The no-left from Vine St. south at Central Parkway is having the effect of diverting a lot of traffic to Race that would otherwise be shifting over to Walnut (notice the often 10-car cue that forms on Central Parkway making lefts onto Race). Even during this extreme test of the city's street grid, I don't think the streetcars would be slowed down by too much.   

Agree jmecklenborg.  That particular Vox article was very light on data and specifics to support the conclusions, especially about the assertion of how streetcars slow down buses.  (I did find the "cards" informative though: http://www.vox.com/cards/us-streetcar-trend-public-transportation/what-is-a-streetcar )  I think traffic flows pretty well already along our route, so a dedicated right of way might not make that much of a difference.  I did think the article was interesting considering the source, it's not a right wing website and the article included statements like, "To improve transit, smash the car lobby."  Kind of like getting hit from the left I guess.  But, I really think our current project will be a tremendous success as-is.

On another note, Vox.com, German Lopez's (from City Beat) new outfit, published a blistering commentary on mixed traffic streetcars yesterday, actually calling them "evil":  http://www.vox.com/2014/7/25/5937215/dc-streetcar-disaster-mixed-traffic-streetcars-are-evil (Written by Matthew Yglesias, not German, also be sure to launch the "cards" after the article for more info.) 

 

The vox.com thing above has General Electric's logo all over it.  I'm not sure when or why GE got into streetcar-hating, in fact it just doesn't make sense.  This video posted below here "Going Places" is from General Electric circa 1952 and praises the virtues of electric public transit.  It is dead accurate and well worth watching, although the opening few minutes is kind of lame.  It gets better toward the middle and end...about 3 minutes in it gets right to the point.  Sit back, watch and enjoy.  :clap:  Lots of footage of PCC streetcars.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3-RB6Phlg

^If I'm not mistaken, the world famous Shaker Rapid makes several cameo appearances in this film :)

 

At least that line survived.

^Yup, I was raised in Cleveland, those yellow PCC streetcars are the old "Shaker Rapid" cars, I used to ride those all the time when I was a kid.  Greater Cleveland RTA replaced the PCC's with Breda LRV's in the early '80's.  The Bredas have been around for 30+ years so presumably GCRTA must be looking for replacements, I would hope.

slumcat[/member] That video is really neat!  It's amazingly forward-thinking even during the golden era of the Automobile Age.  In regards to GE and the Vox.com article, they are just a website sponsor and don't have any editorial control over content or opinion pieces I'm sure.  I actually enjoy Vox.com in general, they are a new venture by Ezra Klein of the Washington Post, you can follow ex-Cincinnati CityBeat reporter German Lopez on Twitter for a lot of good stories.

Here are 5 qualitative observations I had about my uptown streetcar lines map (reference here: ) that I liked:

 

1.   It connects to Wasson Way:  This is a good thing even if Wasson Way light rail doesn’t get built.  Someone in Hyde Park or Oakley looking to spend a Saturday could take the bike trail, ride onto the streetcar, and take it all the way down to the riverfront to ride around down there.  Or, someone could use a bike for the first leg of their commute to a job Uptown. 

 

2. It would work well with the new MLK I-71 interchange:  I have to assume the new interchange is going to direct traffic away from McMillan, Taft and Burnet making them easier for a streetcar to traverse.  This would also facilitate the conversion of Taft and McMillan to two way streets that would be required by this streetcar plan.  The MLK interchange plan also imagines new development around Reading & MLK intersection (recently they are looking to land the NIOSH facility) and the Burnet Avenue leg would serve that area. 

 

3.  It connects high schools (Hughes, Dohn Community, St. Ursula, Walnut Hills, Purcell Marian,) some of which have a city-wide draw.  Convenient for kids and parents. 

 

4. It doesn’t necessarily take you to the zoo (but you can still get there if you want):  Conversation in years past has focused on extending the line “Uptown to the Zoo.”  The zoo’s great, but is it really the top priority uptown?  It’s a seasonal summer destination (except Festival of Lights.)  This plan casts a wider net connecting all seven hospitals (Good Sam, Deaconess, Christ, VA, Shriners, University and Children’s.)  The medical sector will continue to be a driver for job growth as baby boomers retire & age, and it seems impervious to economic recessions.  The plan also connects Cincinnati’s two largest universities (UC & XU).

 

5. It’s integrated with the Uptown Transit District enhanced metro stops:  the Clifton, Calhoun, and McMillan stops are on the route, Vine is near the proposed streetcar transit center,  Burnett Ave stops are on the route, and Jefferson stops are a block away.  ( http://www.go-metro.com/uploads/pdfs/UTDBooklet.pdf )

 

slumcat[/member] That video is really neat!  It's amazingly forward-thinking even during the golden era of the Automobile Age.  In regards to GE and the Vox.com article, they are just a website sponsor and don't have any editorial control over content or opinion pieces I'm sure.  I actually enjoy Vox.com in general, they are a new venture by Ezra Klein of the Washington Post, you can follow ex-Cincinnati CityBeat reporter German Lopez on Twitter for a lot of good stories.

 

Glad you liked it, I sure did.  Thanks for the heads up on Vox, I really didn't think GE was ever anti-streetcar.  In fact, can't prove it...I know it's been debated on this forum before...but I still got a strong hunch that the streetcar entered into GE's decision to set up operations at the Banks.

^A GE rep stated that the streetcar was a factor in one of the articles published shortly after the official announcement. The mayor then denied this, as if his opinion on the matter trumps that of the company that made the actual decision.  :roll:

Just returned from the Grand Opening of the Tucson Streetcar. It's all good.

ALL good?  Including that desert heat?

ALL good?  Including that desert heat?

 

It was hot as hell. The were, literally -- this is no exaggeration -- offering bottled water in iced tubs at the stops, delivered by a truck that made the rounds all day. If they can get the land use right, Tucson has a real winner. That's a big "if."

I went to Findlay Market for the first time this past Saturday time in a little while ... It's crazy how bustling that area is! Parking was crazy, but I can't imagine how much more the streetcar is going to help ... It's going to be nuts.

^There is tons of room for growth in adjacent buildings around the market.  Also, Saturday is crazy busy, the weekdays could use a boost.

^^Yes, parking is crazy around Findlay Market.  I avoid the market at certain times because I assume I won't be able to park.  If I can get into the lot on busy days sometimes the machines that take your parking fee don't work and the security guard has to come over and help. 

 

Was part of the rationale for the streetcar so that you could park off-site, ie maybe downtown, or in the garage by Music Hall, or in KY where parking is plentiful by Newport on the Levee, and then ride up to Findlay Market?  I believe so.

Streetcar power station design revealed

 

The Cincinnati Streetcar power substation at Court and Walnut streets won't be a boring brick box, as previous renderings suggested.

 

Instead, the north and south sides will feature perforated metal panels with a Downtown street grid made out of laser-cut stainless steel.

 

The brick wall that faces Walnut Street will have a decorative panel as well, though it's not been designed yet.

 

Cont

 

 

Note: Official unveiling is scheduled for Tuesday from 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. in the main lobby Downtown Cincinnati Public Library

Missed this from Channel 12 over the weekend:

 

Streetcar shells shipped to US

 

CINCINNATI (WKRC) -- The Streetcar Project reached another milestone. The shells for the vehicles are on their way from Spain. They're destination is the Port of Newark, N.J. They will then be shipped to Elmira, N.Y. for assembly.

 

Sounds like a road trip to Elmira this winter.

The substation design sounds interesting. I'm excited to see the design in person. Laser cut stainless steel in the shape of the street grid will look really nice I think and really turn these into something much better than just a simple box.

Looks like they are putting in a stop on Race right by the diamond at 12th?  I always thought that the Washington Park stop would be more towards 13th Street.  Was this a design change or was I just looking at a low res map?  I'm not complaining, just a little surprised is all.

700 pages of comments...

There were actually at least 800.  The forum lost six months of posts twice since 2007. 

^ I hope they didn't lose the pages where Jason Haap and -- what's his name, the guy in the former boy band? -- those pages where those guys tried to show us how much they knew about urban rail.

Justin Jeffre of 98 Degrees!

Looks like they are putting in a stop on Race right by the diamond at 12th?  I always thought that the Washington Park stop would be more towards 13th Street.  Was this a design change or was I just looking at a low res map?  I'm not complaining, just a little surprised is all.

This stop should have been one block north, so that it faced the oval of Washington Park and Music Hall.  The sidewalk in the 1200 block is narrower and the stop will not be as pleasant.  Actually two would have been better: one at 14th and another at Central Parkway.

 

The maps always showed a dot here, but I was never clear on the exact location.  I am perplexed how some stops are right before a stoplight and others are after a stoplight.  This one at 12th is halfway up the block. 

rendering for the substation- http://www.fox19.com/story/26128742/city-to-unveil-streetcar-substation-design

rendering for the substation- http://www.fox19.com/story/26128742/city-to-unveil-streetcar-substation-design

What's it made of?

Tile would be nice but an electronic display that could change would be cool, too.

The map sections will be built but the picture on the Walnut st. side is a just a placeholder for a new piece of art; unsure of artist.

 

My understanding is that this substation is only for the southern (CBD) loop. Where will the northern loop substation be located? I hope they can put it in the maintenance building on Race/Henry.

My understanding is that this substation is only for the southern (CBD) loop. Where will the northern loop substation be located? I hope they can put it in the maintenance building on Race/Henry.

 

there will be one under FWW; one in the Findlay Lot and another in the MOF

The street grid art (green and white portion) looks like a generic street grid in the rendering.  I really hope the final one depicts the street grid of Cincinnati. 

The Enquirer ran a couple of interesting articles the last few days.  A day or two ago they ran an article pointing out that Winburn is running for the State Senate.  If he wins he will need to vacate his Council seat and it will be treated as an open seat in the 2015 election.  His appointed replacement can't serve until the end of his full term.  Likely contenders for a 2015 election include one or two supporters, which could impact favorably on an uptown extension grant if one wins.  Any ideas on this one?

 

Also, today they ran the story about Frameri, an eye ware firm that recently decided to locate to an address on Race Street, I do believe a section of Race that is on the route.  Obviously it's good news when start up businesses pick OTR...so....streetcar-influenced decision anyone?  Over the Rhine was already up and coming with or without the streetcar, it would be presumptuous to assume that all locational decisions are based on the streetcar, but still it would be good to get credit if/where credit is due.  Any insights on this?

On the topic of streetcar politics, where does Harry Black (awesome name by the way) stand on the issue? Doesn't Baltimore have a streetcar project?

On the topic of streetcar politics, where does Harry Black (awesome name by the way) stand on the issue? Doesn't Baltimore have a streetcar project?

 

He stands wherever Cranley tells him to stand.  If you spend a moment looking up his career, you'll see that he's just the sort of scumbag who will fit in perfectly with Cranley/Smitherman. 

When does council vote on approval of the mayor's selection?  Is there any precedent in Cincy for rejecting a selection or is approval just a formality?

This recommendation isn't exactly inspiring, is it? Lots of job hopping. No evidence of an overall philosophy about cities. With Milton Dohoney we had a guy with a long, stable history running two slightly smaller cities with good success. Downtown flourished under his administration, and now he's assistant city manager of Phoenix.

 

 

 

On the topic of streetcar politics, where does Harry Black (awesome name by the way) stand on the issue? Doesn't Baltimore have a streetcar project?

 

He stands wherever Cranley tells him to stand.  If you spend a moment looking up his career, you'll see that he's just the sort of scumbag who will fit in perfectly with Cranley/Smitherman. 

 

I don't want to get off topic, but Urban Cincy just posted a great write up on this:

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2014/07/beyond-the-press-release-who-is-harry-black/

For page 700 shouldn't there be some kind of mention, recognition of WLW?

like

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

or something?

 

Here’s what Cincinnati’s city manager nominee says about streetcar, public transit

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Harry Black, the nominee to be Cincinnati’s next city manager, declined to weigh in on the city’s controversial streetcar project on Thursday, saying its future is up to Mayor John Cranley and the City Council.

 

“The legislators have legislated this initiative and this project. It’s incumbent on myself and my team to make sure it’s executed but that it’s executed in a cost-effective and responsible way,” Black said. “Anything beyond that I would leave to the policymakers, and obviously I would assume they would seek input from the administration from a technical perspective.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/07/31/here-s-what-cincinnati-s-city-manager-nominee-says.html

For page 700 shouldn't there be some kind of mention, recognition of WLW?

like

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

or something?

 

A fake 55krc caller said that 'My sister is a psychic...She's usually pretty good.  She said there's going to be a big riot downtown and the streetcar/Music Hall will be destroyed/Wiped out' (19:50m mark)

 

http://www.55krc.com/media/podcast-brian-thomas-morning-show-55krcMornings/55krc-morning-show-25097156/

This is awesome. It's funny too, because I doubt that at this point the general public has any clue that this is going on. People are so oblivious. Once we start seeing actual physical stuff going on (i.e. fundraising or construction) people really won't think this is serious, or even care....with the exception of all of us on here.

 

Very true...the general public will wait until the ribbon cutting and then get all up in arms, and say its a waste of taxpayer money (even though taxpayer money won't be involved...I can see it now)!

 

I was looking back at some of the early discussions of the streetcar and I came across this gem...

I spoke to Vice Mayor Tarbell and asked him if we would have streetcars in three years and he said probably sooner.  Gotta like the optimism.

 

Another good one.

My understanding is that this substation is only for the southern (CBD) loop. Where will the northern loop substation be located? I hope they can put it in the maintenance building on Race/Henry.

 

there will be one under FWW; one in the Findlay Lot and another in the MOF

 

Findlay, Court, and 2nd St stations are all parallel fed to the same DC circuit...  MOF is seperate.

I spoke to Vice Mayor Tarbell and asked him if we would have streetcars in three years and he said probably sooner.  Gotta like the optimism.

 

Another good one.

 

Went through those first few pages a couple weeks ago. My favorite was one that said Cranley was a big supporter of the streetcar.