I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

 

Now that you mention, that would be a brilliant spot for a graduate student / law student.  Coffee Emporium across Central Parkway, plus the chance to add even more to the immediate area.  Also could be a really nice spot for a book store.  Not sure if a Barnes and Noble would work well on CP because of the one across the river on the levee, but maybe a smaller, independent store that could be used as a late night study area.  Is there any book stores like this in the Cincinnati area besides Barnes and Noble? 

 

Joseph Beth

Now that you mention, that would be a brilliant spot for a graduate student / law student.  Coffee Emporium across Central Parkway, plus the chance to add even more to the immediate area.  Also could be a really nice spot for a book store.  Not sure if a Barnes and Noble would work well on CP because of the one across the river on the levee, but maybe a smaller, independent store that could be used as a late night study area.  Is there any book stores like this in the Cincinnati area besides Barnes and Noble? 

 

There are already two small bookstores downtown.  Ohio Book Store is at 8th/Main and the Booksellers at Fountain Square.  Not sure if those have night hours though.

I could def see taller buildings along Liberty.

 

Looks like that's included in Schickel Design's Pleasant Street Vision Study:

 

http://www.schickeldesign.com/documents/otrch_vision_study_final_booklet.pdf

 

I wouldnt be in favor of anything giant, i really like the views of the rooftops and steeples from the hillsides.  But, time has arrived when we have to start thinking about Liberty Street not as a border but as a centerpiece of the neighborhood.

 

Wow, those garages are huge. And what's with them fronting Elm & Race? (Page 18 of PDF)

 

Edit: They even front Liberty in one spot (and visibly bridge the alley), seen best on Pg. 20.

 

Thank you-

 

Anyone pretending that the Shickel proposal is significantly better than the 3CDC plan isn't thinking straight.  They are two different versions of the same plan.  Both have giant garages- hell, the "vision study" plan has a freaking garage bridge over Pleasant Street!!!.  What could be less pedestrian friendly than a giant concrete car bridge driving over your residential street. 

 

I actually feel that the "Vision Study" is WORSE than the 3CDC plan.  Here's why:  The vision study essentially says, 15th and Race is too important to have any parking!  Put all the parking out by that wasteland of Liberty where no one cares anyway!!".  It's the typical NIMBYism that is occuring in Pendleton right now where people are opposed to the new townhomes being built.  Their few small streets got fixed up enough, so why bother fixing up some vacant land and changing things...

 

The 3CDC plan does have way too much parking.  I would say 100 spaces could/should be cut out of the 300+ space plan (remember, they are not building parking at 15th & Elm, or for any of their republic st properties, and Mercer Commons still has a whole third phase that needs to be built that will use the mercer garage, so 200 or so for like 8 development sites isn't outrageous, but 300+ is a bit much) Reality is people still drive in Cincy, and the streetcar is a step in the right direction, but isn't going to end driving. 

 

But to say, "having a parking garage hidden by buildings is bad, I'd rather put it on a major thoroughfare where it visible from Elm, Race & Liberty" is a joke.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

 

I've been told UC is strongly considering the Banks for law school.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

 

I've been told UC is strongly considering the Banks for law school.

 

Having the UC Law School closer to downtown would be great. Easier to get adjunct professors and for students to intern. There's no connection between the lawschool and the rest of campus anyways.

I've been told Saturday the 24th is the official opening of 12th & Race, but there is a chance it would open a few days earlier if weather holds up and things keep moving.

Anyone pretending that the Shickel proposal is significantly better than the 3CDC plan isn't thinking straight.  They are two different versions of the same plan.  Both have giant garages- hell, the "vision study" plan has a freaking garage bridge over Pleasant Street!!!.  What could be less pedestrian friendly than a giant concrete car bridge driving over your residential street. 

 

Jesus. I got mixed up and was thinking that was an alley, not Pleasant Street. That plan should be thrown off the QCS Tiara into the Mighty Ohio.

 

I've been told UC is strongly considering the Banks for law school.

 

Hmm, that's very interesting. I'd really prefer OTR, but given UC's questionable respect for urbanism, the Banks might be safer. (What might they do to provide parking in OTR?) In general, I don't think non-profit institutions are a good fit for prime real estate at the Banks. Not to mention OTR is significantly closer to the main campus.

 

The upshot is UC doesn't skimp on architectural quality, and having a nice showpiece on the river would be a pleasant departure from where the Banks has been going.

Hmm, that's very interesting. I'd really prefer OTR, but given UC's questionable respect for urbanism, the Banks might be safer. (What might they do to provide parking in OTR?) In general, I don't think non-profit institutions are a good fit for prime real estate at the Banks. Not to mention OTR is significantly closer to the main campus.

 

The upshot is UC doesn't skimp on architectural quality, and having a nice showpiece on the river would be a pleasant departure from where the Banks has been going.

 

While I agree non-profits are bad on prime real estate due to the lack of taxes, anything and everything being built at the Banks are receiving 15-30 year tax abatements.  Essentially negating any value paid through taxes for years.  That makes me more willing to have UC build something that would have activity and contribute to vitality at the Banks since the tax benefit wouldn't occur anyway.  But, I would want it to be on an area for office, and not to replace residential.

I wish I knew how to embed a photo, but my prediction for the next "Big" development is on the surface parking lots on Walnut Street just south of Central Parkway.  There is a small lot on the southwest corner of Walnut and CP, a huge Lot on the SE corner of Walnut and CP, then another large lot south of that.  I think those will be the first since it will be easiest to convert CP, and they could build a nice 8-12 story, 300 unit apartment on the SE Lot, maybe a taller, skinnier lot, say 12-16 story on the SW Lot, and then move down from there.  I think the CBD will be redeveloped before OTR.  In addition to that, in OTR I think the NW Corner of Main and Central Parkway will be redeveloped fairly soon as well, at least before areas further up the route are redeveloped.  Just my predictions!!

 

^ Would be an excellent site for a new UC College of Law. There are other plans for this site.

 

I've been told UC is strongly considering the Banks for law school.

 

Another justification for a streetcar route linking The Banks to UC.

The Uptown Connector should have two spurs - one to the Zoo and one to Ludlow.  Linking those assets would make the city a lot more tourist-friendly than terminating the Streetcar at U Plaza.

 

Cities with high-profile grow fast.

 

Because our rapid transit is being put together piecemeal, tourist-friendly routes with TOD can push the city to really hit its stride as an bubbling residential community.  Fortunately some of the most fruitful potential routes like the Uptown Connector and rail from CVG-Covington-Downtown are financially feasible in the near future.  Getting this city to a tourist-friendly status would do a 180º to Cincinnati's profile.

The 1132 Bar at 1132 Race Street has been a focal center for crack/heroin dealing for decades (even now dealers rule that corner).  The building (which is falling apart) is less than a half block from a streetcar stop.  However, the owner refuses to sell and his property value is in the gutter due to decades of neglect.  I have it on good authority that he has turned down at least two offers to buy his property.  He has no qualms that the bar and ghetto store that share the building have caused and are causing serious public safety issues in the area.  I hope once the streetcar goes online someone will offer him way more than the building is worth before the building crumbles any more or the crime gets any worse.

The owner, Carl is behind the counter every day, six days a week, 5am-5pm, you can go in and talk to him any time.  If a gate/fence could be installed where Baldwin Alley meets 12th Street, it would help a lot, even though the south end would still be open. 

The owner, Carl is behind the counter every day, six days a week, 5am-5pm, you can go in and talk to him any time.  If a gate/fence could be installed where Baldwin Alley meets 12th Street, it would help a lot, even though the south end would still be open. 

 

The final approval of the lease for Baldwin Alley to Tender Mercies (who is installing the gate) will be at a Planning Commission meeting tomorrow at 9am.  I'm taking time off work to be there in the way-off chance that there are any objections by anyone.  I'm not really sure what good it would do to walk in and talk to Carl.  He must be aware of the deterioration of his historic buildings as well as the non-stop drug dealing going on in front of his businesses.  I've talked with three high level policemen and they are very much aware of the negative affect his businesses have on that corner.  One even went out of his way to apologize for some occasional police union functions that are held at that bar.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you believe would be the benefit of talking one-on-one with Carl?  Do you think he would he start reporting drug dealing and work with police to clean up the crime?  Do you think he would he make long overdue repairs to his properties even though he has done so little up to this point?  Do you think he could be convinced to sell his properties to someone who would make needed repairs to the historic buildings?  Again, his properties on this corner are beautiful, historic buildings (albeit now in a serious state of disrepair) that will be within a half block of a streetcar stop.  His properties have served as a focal point for crime for decades.  In that time he has shown little concern for the community by letting his properties crumble and putting up with crime occurring on his front stoop.  What good would it do to sit down and chat with someone like that?

 

The trees on Central Parkway along the streetcar route look to be in terrible condition.  Can a tree expert comment on if they are at risk of dying or just dormant?  I assume the irrigation system has been out of service and that is why they are frail. 

They're all sycamore trees as far as I can tell, and those along with cottonwoods have already started changing color and dropping leaves throughout the region.  Not sure why, it hasn't been that terribly dry, but I don't think it's a problem specific to just the trees on Central Parkway. 

Not sure if the irrigation system was out of service during construction but there was crew working on it yesterday.

The owner, Carl is behind the counter every day, six days a week, 5am-5pm, you can go in and talk to him any time.  If a gate/fence could be installed where Baldwin Alley meets 12th Street, it would help a lot, even though the south end would still be open. 

 

The final approval of the lease for Baldwin Alley to Tender Mercies (who is installing the gate) will be at a Planning Commission meeting tomorrow at 9am.  I'm taking time off work to be there in the way-off chance that there are any objections by anyone.  I'm not really sure what good it would do to walk in and talk to Carl.  He must be aware of the deterioration of his historic buildings as well as the non-stop drug dealing going on in front of his businesses.  I've talked with three high level policemen and they are very much aware of the negative affect his businesses have on that corner.  One even went out of his way to apologize for some occasional police union functions that are held at that bar.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you believe would be the benefit of talking one-on-one with Carl?  Do you think he would he start reporting drug dealing and work with police to clean up the crime?  Do you think he would he make long overdue repairs to his properties even though he has done so little up to this point?  Do you think he could be convinced to sell his properties to someone who would make needed repairs to the historic buildings?  Again, his properties on this corner are beautiful, historic buildings (albeit now in a serious state of disrepair) that will be within a half block of a streetcar stop.  His properties have served as a focal point for crime for decades.  In that time he has shown little concern for the community by letting his properties crumble and putting up with crime occurring on his front stoop.  What good would it do to sit down and chat with someone like that?

 

 

Maybe he's making a cut off the activity, not unlike the owners of the Phoenix Café were rumored to have been. 

 

 

 

 

The owner, Carl is behind the counter every day, six days a week, 5am-5pm, you can go in and talk to him any time.  If a gate/fence could be installed where Baldwin Alley meets 12th Street, it would help a lot, even though the south end would still be open. 

 

The final approval of the lease for Baldwin Alley to Tender Mercies (who is installing the gate) will be at a Planning Commission meeting tomorrow at 9am.  I'm taking time off work to be there in the way-off chance that there are any objections by anyone.  I'm not really sure what good it would do to walk in and talk to Carl.  He must be aware of the deterioration of his historic buildings as well as the non-stop drug dealing going on in front of his businesses.  I've talked with three high level policemen and they are very much aware of the negative affect his businesses have on that corner.  One even went out of his way to apologize for some occasional police union functions that are held at that bar.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you believe would be the benefit of talking one-on-one with Carl?  Do you think he would he start reporting drug dealing and work with police to clean up the crime?  Do you think he would he make long overdue repairs to his properties even though he has done so little up to this point?  Do you think he could be convinced to sell his properties to someone who would make needed repairs to the historic buildings?  Again, his properties on this corner are beautiful, historic buildings (albeit now in a serious state of disrepair) that will be within a half block of a streetcar stop.  His properties have served as a focal point for crime for decades.  In that time he has shown little concern for the community by letting his properties crumble and putting up with crime occurring on his front stoop.  What good would it do to sit down and chat with someone like that?

 

 

Maybe he's making a cut off the activity, not unlike the owners of the Phoenix Café were rumored to have been. 

 

 

I doubt that is the case, but people I've seen dealing do go in there from time to time.  The best I can tell he's extremely cheap and cares more about making a buck than being a member of the community.

I've had people move onto my block and within a month of living here, they have called the building department to report maintenance items on the back of my building.  I thought this was very rude.  I have been here a long time and I do the best I can.  So my maintenance doesn't meet up to your standards.... that doesn't mean I am breaking the law. 

 

Carl has done everything that the building department asked of him.  He has been serving the same food and drink since the 60s.  He is not breaking any law and he is a blue collar immigrant trying to feed his family.  To me, if you want to correct problems, the best option is to talk first.  He's an old guy and he probably won't be able to single handed run the business much longer.  I know a lot of guys who go to his place because it is the only cheap place to get a cup of coffee and a fried egg sandwich.  He has never ever had any crime inside his business, and I really don't think the cell-phone store does either.  Heck, I take the kids there for cheap popsicles and the people are nice.  Every storefront doesn't need to be high-priced restaurants.

 

If people are dealing drugs outside, then the cops need to step up and make some arrests.  I see people smoking and shooting up in Baldwin Alley all the time and the police don't go back there.

I've had people move onto my block and within a month of living here, they have called the building department to report maintenance items on the back of my building.  I thought this was very rude.  I have been here a long time and I do the best I can.  So my maintenance doesn't meet up to your standards.... that doesn't mean I am breaking the law. 

 

Carl has done everything that the building department asked of him.  He has been serving the same food and drink since the 60s.  He is not breaking any law and he is a blue collar immigrant trying to feed his family.  To me, if you want to correct problems, the best option is to talk first.  He's an old guy and he probably won't be able to single handed run the business much longer.  I know a lot of guys who go to his place because it is the only cheap place to get a cup of coffee and a fried egg sandwich.  He has never ever had any crime inside his business, and I really don't think the cell-phone store does either.  Heck, I take the kids there for cheap popsicles and the people are nice.  Every storefront doesn't need to be high-priced restaurants.

 

If people are dealing drugs outside, then the cops need to step up and make some arrests.  I see people smoking and shooting up in Baldwin Alley all the time and the police don't go back there.

 

The Dunlap cafe is in OTR. is open early and closes early, serves cheap food and doesn't adversely affect the neighborhood. It's a rather nice place and the closest comparable business to the 1132 Race in the neighborhood.

Maybe he's making a cut off the activity, not unlike the owners of the Phoenix Café were rumored to have been. 

I doubt that is the case, but people I've seen dealing do go in there from time to time.  The best I can tell he's extremely cheap and cares more about making a buck than being a member of the community.

Back in the 80s & 90s, the 1132 was a popular lunch spot for the folks at 1st Lutheran. Dunno if it was Carl back then.

I'd be more worried about the guy having to pay protection.

The Uptown Connector should have two spurs - one to the Zoo and one to Ludlow.  Linking those assets would make the city a lot more tourist-friendly than terminating the Streetcar at U Plaza.

 

Cities with high-profile grow fast.

 

Because our rapid transit is being put together piecemeal, tourist-friendly routes with TOD can push the city to really hit its stride as an bubbling residential community.  Fortunately some of the most fruitful potential routes like the Uptown Connector and rail from CVG-Covington-Downtown are financially feasible in the near future.  Getting this city to a tourist-friendly status would do a 180º to Cincinnati's profile.

 

The politics is not favorable at the moment

We currently have 5 votes to plan for the uptown phase.  We need 6.  Cranley is going to veto until the sun comes

 

In favor of Phase 2 extension planning/construction

Mann

Simpson

Young

Sittenfeld

Seelbach

 

Against:

Flynn

Murray

Winburn

Smitherman

Cranley(Veto)

 

Never going to happen unless UC(Santa Ono) &/or the big time Uptown businesses step up.  That's the only hope we have of putting the pressure on cranley/black & planning an uptown extension

 

Flynn was/is our best shot to turn on council but he's said he wants to see how phase 1 does before even thinking about phase 2. 

 

Lets hope Winburn wins his senate seat & a streetcar supporter wins council's open seat in 2015

^ So vote for Winburn for senate?  :evil:

It looks like they are starting to lay track on Walnut St., South of Central Parkway.  There is a crane and big flat bed loaded with what appears to be rails on Walnut and Court.  They have official entered the CBD. 

It looks like they are starting to lay track on Walnut St., South of Central Parkway.  There is a crane and big flat bed loaded with what appears to be rails on Walnut and Court.  They have official entered the CBD. 

 

At or ahead of schedule and on-budget

 

 

Carl has done everything that the building department asked of him. 

 

Not entirely true.  A google search of code violations in the City show outstanding orders that are not completed and seem to be past due.  I'd assume he's been fined because the dates imply he didn't do the work in the allotted time.

 

If I see code violations, I report it.  Unfortunately, too many buildings have gone into shambles by people who "meant well" but didn't do the appropriate maintenance on their buildings.

 

 

Carl has done everything that the building department asked of him. 

 

Not entirely true.  A google search of code violations in the City show outstanding orders that are not completed and seem to be past due.  I'd assume he's been fined because the dates imply he didn't do the work in the allotted time.

 

If I see code violations, I report it.  Unfortunately, too many buildings have gone into shambles by people who "meant well" but didn't do the appropriate maintenance on their buildings.

 

Wow, talk about snitching...that is, unless it's your job.  How do you know these proprietors aren't in the process of correcting?  You're directly attacking people's wallets, but I guess you knew that.

 

 

Carl has done everything that the building department asked of him. 

 

Not entirely true.  A google search of code violations in the City show outstanding orders that are not completed and seem to be past due.  I'd assume he's been fined because the dates imply he didn't do the work in the allotted time.

 

If I see code violations, I report it.  Unfortunately, too many buildings have gone into shambles by people who "meant well" but didn't do the appropriate maintenance on their buildings.

 

Wow, talk about snitching...that is, unless it's your job.  How do you know these proprietors aren't in the process of correcting?  You're directly attacking people's wallets, but I guess you knew that.

 

It's one tool to either harass someone, or to get something corrected. I had to do that to get my former neighbor's residence into compliance. The owner was a slumlord who continuously rented out to the lowest of the low life. I would constantly be on the heels of the city, reporting for trash on the lawn, broken windows, leaking downspouts (excess water was going into my basement), uncut lawn, vicious dogs, property damage (vicious dogs broke through my wooden fence twice), etc.

Concrete poured in the diamond in Washington Park Junction

 

 

Streetcar enters the CBD

 

 

Power Substation Construction Site

 

^Man, Cincinnati has some grand structures....Central Parkway is going to be such an imposing boulevard in the not-too-distant future.  The Streetcar + the Parkway Subway (which I think will happen within 10 years) are really going to force the evolution of that street.

^Man, Cincinnati has some grand structures....Central Parkway is going to be such an imposing boulevard in the not-too-distant future.  The Streetcar + the Parkway Subway (which I think will happen within 10 years) are really going to force the evolution of that street.

 

For construction to begin on the Central Parkway subway in 10 years (I'm talking about beginning, not being built) there would need to be plans and design work actively starting now.  For the Cincinnati Streetcar, we started in 2007, It will open in 2016.  Were there delays? Yes.  Will those same attack tactics happen for rebuilding something in the Central Parkway Subway? Yes.  Hopefully, Phase 2 of the Streetcar has just opened 10 years from now.  Design work is at 30%, and there are no funds to move it forward.  I think Design gets finished, maybe by 2016.  Then there's a huge fight during the next mayoral election on how to fund uptown's connection.  Then maybe, if a pro streetcar mayor wins in 2017 (democrats are unlikely to run a major candidate against Cranley unless he really becomes a failure) Council will look at funding in 2018, maybe with work beginning in 2019 and taking 2+ years, opening revenue service n 2022.  That's a tight schedule that doesn't allow for referendum's etc. That's phase 2 for the streetcar opening in 8 years from now, which I think is the absolute best case you can hope for (I wouldn't put much money on that).  Central Parkway subway isn't going to happen in the near future.

I'm guessing the Uptown Streetcar happens sooner than that and the Central Parkway Subway never happens.

I'm guessing the Uptown Streetcar happens sooner than that and the Central Parkway Subway never happens.

 

Why don't you think the Parkway Subway will happen?

^Man, Cincinnati has some grand structures....Central Parkway is going to be such an imposing boulevard in the not-too-distant future.  The Streetcar + the Parkway Subway (which I think will happen within 10 years) are really going to force the evolution of that street.

 

For construction to begin on the Central Parkway subway in 10 years (I'm talking about beginning, not being built) there would need to be plans and design work actively starting now.  For the Cincinnati Streetcar, we started in 2007, It will open in 2016.  Were there delays? Yes.  Will those same attack tactics happen for rebuilding something in the Central Parkway Subway? Yes.  Hopefully, Phase 2 of the Streetcar has just opened 10 years from now.  Design work is at 30%, and there are no funds to move it forward.  I think Design gets finished, maybe by 2016.  Then there's a huge fight during the next mayoral election on how to fund uptown's connection.  Then maybe, if a pro streetcar mayor wins in 2017 (democrats are unlikely to run a major candidate against Cranley unless he really becomes a failure) Council will look at funding in 2018, maybe with work beginning in 2019 and taking 2+ years, opening revenue service n 2022.  That's a tight schedule that doesn't allow for referendum's etc. That's phase 2 for the streetcar opening in 8 years from now, which I think is the absolute best case you can hope for (I wouldn't put much money on that).  Central Parkway subway isn't going to happen in the near future.

 

I misspoke...I meant to say that I think it will be under construction within 10 years.  I wouldn't compare the timeline of Streetcar Phase I to anything because it's the initial reintroduction to real city transit in Cincinnati and the first fight is usually the toughest, like John Schneider is always saying.  I think it only gets easier from here to get a line from concept to reality.  The alternative to not using all of that tube we have in place underground is to file a streetcar along Central Parkway.  Either way, I think Central Parkway will be used for rail within 15 years because it's the easiest way to connect the West End with downtown.  All of that precious housing stock in the West End will not sit there and rot much longer, comparatively speaking.  OTR's renaissance is showing the City how to do business.

I'm guessing the Uptown Streetcar happens sooner than that and the Central Parkway Subway never happens.

 

Why don't you think the Parkway Subway will happen?

 

^ Just my considered guess.

I'm guessing the Uptown Streetcar happens sooner than that and the Central Parkway Subway never happens.

 

Why don't you think the Parkway Subway will happen?

 

^ Just my considered guess.

 

Do I smell inside information, sir?

You have to think about who each project will appeal to. The Central Parkway tunnel would need to be used as part of a light rail line, either up I-75 or up I-74. Some of the neighborhoods along that corridor are very unfriendly to transit.

I'm guessing the Uptown Streetcar happens sooner than that and the Central Parkway Subway never happens.

 

Why don't you think the Parkway Subway will happen?

 

^ Just my considered guess.

 

Do I smell inside information, sir?

 

No, just looking at the reality. Subways are only being constructed in principal cities of the world these days, not in cities with 300,000 people. In the U.S., the only subways under construction today are in NYC and SF, although I guess LA will extend its subway to Santa Monica one of these days. Plus a fair amount of tunneling in Seattle for its next LRT extension.

 

Surface-running rail is probably better for commerce in most cities. Underground systems are more expensive to operate due to the cost of elevators, and escalators, ventilation and safety. Travis is right - we might see the existing two miles of tunnels re-used in conjunction with an I-74 LRT, if someone reading this expects to live that long, but I don't see the current tunnels being extended.

We're not really talking about building a subway though. We're talking about running light rail through existing tunnels, the way St Louis did. Heck, even Pittsburgh (one of our closest peers) tunneled under a river to extend their light rail just a few years ago.

 

The rail corridor that makes the most sense to me, though feasibility might be a different issue, is running light rail through the tunnels, along 74/75, then following the rail ROW up through St Bernard, Elmwood Place, Carthage, Hartwell, Wyoming/Lockland, Woodlawn, Glendale, and Tri-County.

 

It's not beyond reason. I'll agree though, that politically it's not likely to happen soon.

We're not really talking about building a subway though. We're talking about running light rail through existing tunnels, the way St Louis did. Heck, even Pittsburgh (one of our closest peers) tunneled under a river to extend their light rail just a few years ago.

 

The rail corridor that makes the most sense to me, though feasibility might be a different issue, is running light rail through the tunnels, along 74/75, then following the rail ROW up through St Bernard, Elmwood Place, Carthage, Hartwell, Wyoming/Lockland, Woodlawn, Glendale, and Tri-County.

 

It's not beyond reason. I'll agree though, that politically it's not likely to happen soon.

 

This is effectively what I was suggesting could happen.  I am perfectly fine with surface rail on Central Parkway connecting to I-75's preserved ROW for LRT.  I don't want the City to even consider building a citywide subway.  Labor costs too much.  Even in Madrid, the expanding lines are surface rail.  I mentioned the Parkway Subway because the City of Cincinnati has already paid for those tunnels.  If they fit into a reasonable, affordable plan to expand transit along the spine of the city, they certainly should be used.

 

We're not really talking about building a subway though. We're talking about running light rail through existing tunnels, the way St Louis did. Heck, even Pittsburgh (one of our closest peers) tunneled under a river to extend their light rail just a few years ago.

 

The rail corridor that makes the most sense to me, though feasibility might be a different issue, is running light rail through the tunnels, along 74/75, then following the rail ROW up through St Bernard, Elmwood Place, Carthage, Hartwell, Wyoming/Lockland, Woodlawn, Glendale, and Tri-County.

 

It's not beyond reason. I'll agree though, that politically it's not likely to happen soon.

 

This is effectively what I was suggesting could happen.  I am perfectly fine with surface rail on Central Parkway connecting to I-75's preserved ROW for LRT.  I don't want the City to even consider building a citywide subway.  Labor costs too much.  Even in Madrid, the expanding lines are surface rail.  I mentioned the Parkway Subway because the City of Cincinnati has already paid for those tunnels.  If they fit into a reasonable, affordable plan to expand transit along the spine of the city, they certainly should be used.

 

 

Due to wealth along I-71, i'd expect to see an I-71 line before an I-75 line.  For various reasons everyone loves talking about the idea of kenwood to downtown, and honestly, it would make Evanston & Norwood BOOM in terms of housing rehab and redevelopment. Also, the amount of wealth already along the line is enormous.  I see no reason for an I-74 line at all unfortunately.  It's extreme sprawl out there.  The only stops beyond Northside would be massive park & rides semi near large strip malls.  An I-75 line would be huge for bringing transit options to people who really need them.  Areas like Lockland, Arlington Heights, etc. are poor and economically would benefit from increased transit options.  But because it's considered poor and there's less comparable development in the area, I don't see a major push by the movers and shakers to bring a billion line to that area to entice nonexistent development.  Notice, SORTA went for their BRT-lite route to be an east side to Kenwood option, and not a central corridor option.

 

 

And bringing us back on topic... Any kind of Major light rail option MUST be funded via a large area tax.  SORTA is preparing to put a quarter cent sales tax on the ballot, and it's not even considering rail. NONE!  Denver passed their massive multi-county tax in 2004 and the first new rail line opened in 2013.  We don't even have a tax passed.  That, in essence, was a huge part of why the City pursued the streetcar.  It's the only rail option we can build without a major dedicated tax.  Flynn & Mann will not push for building phase 2 of the streetcar unless a tax source to cover a chunk of operating costs has been identified.  At this point, no one is even close to figuring that out.

Hello all,

 

I revisited my Uptown Five route plan to analyze for stops and timing.  For reference, you can view it here , here , and here .  Once again, streets are reconfigured two way where necessary, and by the way, wouldn't "The Uptown Five" be a great name for a soul/classic R&B group?  Anyway I came away with this table showing it's so crazy it just might work.  In the table, "Linear Miles" means road miles, since for the most part these routes have tracks on both sides of the street, I multiply by two to get "Track Miles."  I did the something similar with my stops (sorry for not including map of where I think the stops will go at this time.) One "Linear Stop" would include a stop on both sides of the street, and then there is a single stop end of the route. "Track Stops" would be the total number of stops passed by a streetcar going out and back on the route from the Transit Center.  I then calculated stops per mile, which came out to be around 5 for each route, which happens to be the stops per mile number for the downtown route.  I then guessed at the number of streetcars needed to serve each route.  I assumed a speed of 8 mph (based off downtown route from the Banks to MOF taking 15 minutes; I also found other literature citing this number.)  Then, I calculated how long it would take from the Transit Center to the end of each route ("Linear Time") and the time a streetcar to go out and back on a route ("Track Time.")  Dividing Track Time by number of streetcars on each route I got frequency of service... which turned out to be under 15 minutes in each case! (in other words this would be the time in between streetcars at a particular stop.)

 

So, in summary, 4 of these routes would take 13 minutes or less to traverse end to end (with the exception of the longer Walnut Hills route taking 24 minutes) and there would be 15 minutes or less wait time in between each streetcar.  Sounds like this is in the appropriate range for this transit mode- thoughts?

 

 

Cincinnati streetcar did not receive the 5 million dollar grant it applied for.

 

Expect the usual wave of negativity/anger from the same characters.

 

Expect cranley, smitherman and murray on various am radio outlets to speak to the echo chamber

Here's the article about the federal funds denial:

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2014/08/18/exclusive-m-table-streetcar-operations/14232137/

 

I wonder if OKI could've said or done anything that lessened the chances of receiving the grant?  OKI's head, Mark Policinski isn't a streetcar fan.  I noticed in the comments on the Enquirer article that someone speculated there could be a link between this and SORTA head Terry Garcia Crews' abrupt resignation recently.

Cincinnati streetcar did not receive the 5 million dollar grant it applied for.

 

Expect the usual wave of negativity/anger from the same characters.

 

Expect cranley, smitherman and murray on various am radio outlets to speak to the echo chamber

CO has already posted.

Chris Smitherman said a vote to shut down the streetcar from council could happen again soon

 

http://www.700wlw.com/articles/local-news-119585/millions-in-federal-funding-unlikely-to-12683574/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

^could. Meaning it won't happen.

it's time to recall this clown.

My word.  It's Pavlovian.  Here's a wonderful idea:  Spend over $100MM on infrastructure and then seize on the first opportunity to shut it down.  This is called being a good steward?

 

 

My word.  It's Pavlovian.  Here's a wonderful idea:  Spend over $100MM on infrastructure and then seize on the first opportunity to shut it down.  This is called being a good steward?

 

Smitherman will literally say and do anything to advance his political career.

 

He's gone from one extreme politically to the other in less than a decade.  I've never seen anything like it. 

 

Smitherman has said in the past that if they don't find the operating money, they will just park the streetcar and never run it