April 6, 201510 yr Page 4 of this PDF shows an east west connection from Union Terminal to Broadway Commons will cost $50 million. (2012 dollars) http://www.oki.org/departments/transportation/pdf/2040plan/finalchapters/appendixE.pdf Look at how dumb so many of those projects are -- widen Harvey Ave.? Really? Make the hospitals pay for it if they're planning a giant expansion. Widen Blue Rock from Hamilton to Blue Rock? WHY? Union Terminal to Broadway Commons (casino) would be a bad streetcar route. First off I consider the casino to be on the existing streetcar line. Second off no one is going explicitly in between those two destinations. Any streetcar to Union Terminal, which I like the idea of more and more each day, should have just enough track to connect to the existing streetcar line. Then, streetcars should be dedicated to run up and down that portion of the line creating a high frequency so people can easily connect to it from the main line with a minimum wait time. If you added distance (such as to the casino,) that would reduce the frequency. If you had to wait for the Union Terminal-bound streetcar for twenty minutes after disembarking the north-south streetcar line it would be completely useless to everyone. Frequency is absolutely essential to the streetcar's success but it comes at a high operating cost. To maintain frequency over a longer distance drives up costs. If they do it this is how it should be. Probably cheaper too,unless there are more underground utility issues from the Charles St. substation. https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/126240533@N07/16355001098/ www.cincinnatiideas.com
April 6, 201510 yr Page 4 of this PDF shows an east west connection from Union Terminal to Broadway Commons will cost $50 million. (2012 dollars) http://www.oki.org/departments/transportation/pdf/2040plan/finalchapters/appendixE.pdf Look at how dumb so many of those projects are -- widen Harvey Ave.? Really? Make the hospitals pay for it if they're planning a giant expansion. Widen Blue Rock from Hamilton to Blue Rock? WHY? You're seeing the pulsating underbelly of the zombie road widening machine at work. Nothing to see here. Move along please.
April 6, 201510 yr Union Terminal to Broadway Commons would be a waste. However Union Terminal to Walnut Hills via Reading and/or Gilbert would not. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
April 6, 201510 yr Geez. $500 million for a new Ohio River bridge here: http://goo.gl/maps/kXWRE, for a new outer-outer bypass of the entire region.
April 6, 201510 yr Geez. $500 million for a new Ohio River bridge here: http://goo.gl/maps/kXWRE, for a new outer-outer bypass of the entire region. Imagine what impact a new local bridge on the east or west sides of Cincinnati could have. Linking west side neighborhoods directly to CVG, or linking Columbia-Tusculum with Dayton, KY. Either of those would have significant economic development impacts. Instead, we build more bridges linking rural outposts together.
April 6, 201510 yr related? http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/01/21/rebuild-brent-spence-go-around/22117547/
April 6, 201510 yr Obviously there is not enough funding for all those projects. But Cranley can't say he didn't know the cost of the Union Terminal connection.
April 7, 201510 yr Here is one of the old Cincinnati Transit Co. buses in the 2015 opening day parade. The paint scheme of the new CAF streetcars is based on these colors.
April 7, 201510 yr No, the streetcar will be Daffodil Yellow, which isn't found on that generation of vehicles. The colors of our new streetcar will be based on the old 1100s on the right in this pic: This is also where the three stripes in the logo come from:
April 7, 201510 yr No, the streetcar will be Daffodil Yellow, which isn't found on that generation of vehicles. The colors of our new streetcar will be based on the old 1100s on the right in this pic: I just emailed the person rumored to have picked the colors. She said we're both wrong. The color is yellow-orange but more orange than yellow, and is light. It does *not* match the color in the logo *or* any of the old streetcar or bus colors. She says it very closely matches the color in this rendering: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/streetcar/design-route/
April 7, 201510 yr No, the streetcar will be Daffodil Yellow, which isn't found on that generation of vehicles. The colors of our new streetcar will be based on the old 1100s on the right in this pic: I just emailed the person rumored to have picked the colors. She said we're both wrong. The color is yellow-orange but more orange than yellow, and is light. It does *not* match the color in the logo *or* any of the old streetcar or bus colors. She says it very closely matches the color in this rendering: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/streetcar/design-route/ The exact colors of the streetcar will be: Daffodil Yellow R - 253 G - 185 B - 19 #FDB913 Rail Gray R - 126 G - 128 B - 131 #7E8083 Modern White R - 255 G - 255 B - 255 #FFFFFF Asphalt Black R - 0 G - 0 B - 0 #000000
April 7, 201510 yr Ugh... Didn't realize the colors for that rendering were the official colors. I really don't like that yellow/orange. Would have really liked if they did a royal blue or purple since we're the queen city.
April 7, 201510 yr ^I like anything that makes a vehicle easy to spot in the distance. I wish they had mimicked the old streetcar yellow and black color scheme, but I like what they ended up choosing.
April 7, 201510 yr I think the yellow looks sharp. Just be thankful it's not December sky gray like Cleveland's Health Line vehicles. And be thankful your streetcar isn't called the "Health Line."
April 7, 201510 yr The rendering is definitely more "orange" than the daffodil yellow specified and shown above. I also think the paint job in the rendering is a bet bland, hopefully the actual scheme has been tweaked since then. I get that they're trying to call attention to the door locations, but I wish they would have incorporated the stripes and horizontal a bit more. The logo is a nice nod to the old streetcars, and I wish we could see some of that language make its way into the actual streetcar appearance.
April 7, 201510 yr The rendering is definitely more "orange" than the daffodil yellow specified and shown above. I also think the paint job in the rendering is a bet bland, hopefully the actual scheme has been tweaked since then. I get that they're trying to call attention to the door locations, but I wish they would have incorporated the stripes and horizontal a bit more. The logo is a nice nod to the old streetcars, and I wish we could see some of that language make its way into the actual streetcar appearance. I think a lot of the confusion surrounding the color scheme comes from how different the colors look on every monitor. Add to that that the variable perception of the color swatches caused by the colors surrounding them (such as the medium gray of Urban Ohio), then the greater issue of the actual installed color being reflected rather than backlit, and we're not going to know what the colors really look like until they're here. Paul Grether said that the decision to have all of the streetcars colored orange was made in order to insinuate that this first phase will be part of a larger citywide system, and that the varied candy-colored motifs seen in Portland and Seattle contribute to those systems being perceived as "toys". I don't really agree with that because in Portland it's kind of fun to see which streetcar happens to round the corner and come into view, and I'm a fan of the graffiti-era in NYC. It's pretty obvious when you visit the west coast systems that lime green and yellow are the best colors while colors like red, blue, and purple are too dark. There is also an orange streetcar in Portland that is too dark. The Oregon Iron Works streetcar that visited Cincinnati in 2010 was light blue and a more saturated red than the blue and red streetcars that have operated in Portland since 2001. In Seattle the purple streetcar might as well be brown-black in the dreary overcast setting.
April 7, 201510 yr No mention whatsoever of the streetcar in this report on Bob Castellini's comments regarding OTR revitalization by 3CDC: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/04/07/castellini-million-dollar-homes-otrs-future/25429065/
April 7, 201510 yr What's the dirt on a sponsor for the streetcar pulling out because of negativity surrounding the project? Per the (unofficial) Cincinnati Streetcar Facebook page.
April 8, 201510 yr The rendering is definitely more "orange" than the daffodil yellow specified and shown above. I also think the paint job in the rendering is a bet bland, hopefully the actual scheme has been tweaked since then. I get that they're trying to call attention to the door locations, but I wish they would have incorporated the stripes and horizontal a bit more. The logo is a nice nod to the old streetcars, and I wish we could see some of that language make its way into the actual streetcar appearance. I think a lot of the confusion surrounding the color scheme comes from how different the colors look on every monitor. Add to that that the variable perception of the color swatches caused by the colors surrounding them (such as the medium gray of Urban Ohio), then the greater issue of the actual installed color being reflected rather than backlit, and we're not going to know what the colors really look like until they're here. That's why I posted the color codes. You're right though, the sunlight will definitely have an effect. I was looking at the mockups of the coated exteriors just yesterday and thinking that they were more glossy than expected. They're hardly reflective though. I think it'll be a great look when they're out on the streets.
April 8, 201510 yr Yeah I have yet to visit a city where brightly colored buses livened up the street in the same way that similarly painted streetcars do. I don't have a good explanation for it other than I think people for some reason respond positively to the smooth movement and "happy" disposition of streetcars (both old and modern European-style) as compared to buses.
April 8, 201510 yr Yea I've never seen any streetcars or light rail in person. You guys are right, colors look different when its paint on metal in daylight vs a color swatch on a computer. I'll save my judgement for when I'm seeing the real thing.
April 8, 201510 yr Yeah I have yet to visit a city where brightly colored buses livened up the street in the same way that similarly painted streetcars do. I don't have a good explanation for it other than I think people for some reason respond positively to the smooth movement and "happy" disposition of streetcars (both old and modern European-style) as compared to buses. LA did a great job with their buses by branding them in bright colors, not sure what their streetcar will look like if/when it gets online: http://la.curbed.com/archives/2010/04/rebranding_metro_marketing_like_a_private_company.php
April 8, 201510 yr LA County has a 1/2 cent sales tax that funds a bus on every route every 10 minutes during the day and every 15 minutes off-peak. The goal was to have a bus system where you didn't need a schedule. They bought a ton of new buses to achieve that frequency, obviously. A few years ago I rode whatever the Wilshire Blvd express bus is from the last subway stop to Santa Monica, a distance of 12-15 miles, and it took well over an hour. It was a new bus bus still had the rough ride with rattling windows of any other bus I've ridden. This bus route is the future route of the Wilshire subway, incidentally, which will cut that trip time in half or less.
April 8, 201510 yr LA County has a 1/2 cent sales tax that funds a bus on every route every 10 minutes during the day and every 15 minutes off-peak. The goal was to have a bus system where you didn't need a schedule. They bought a ton of new buses to achieve that frequency, obviously. A few years ago I rode whatever the Wilshire Blvd express bus is from the last subway stop to Santa Monica, a distance of 12-15 miles, and it took well over an hour. It was a new bus bus still had the rough ride with rattling windows of any other bus I've ridden. This bus route is the future route of the Wilshire subway, incidentally, which will cut that trip time in half or less. I didn't say the bus was the best alternative, but I really like LAs method of incremental improvement, make what you have better first, while your working on making the system as a whole much more robust. I prefer riding a train too, but as a regular rider of the CTA that has to get to areas far from trains now and then by Bus having a bus that doesn't stop at every little side street a wonderful thing and for LA ridership as a whole is up due to these changes, which will in part help supercharge growth on the better form of transit when its done. I also really appreciate the branding because it helps set the identity of the city makes transit as a whole more attractive. I'm not using this as a crutch to say that the streetcar is not needed, because yes it is, and its going to be a good thing for Cincinnati, but I am saying that Cincinnati like LA a few years back (and still to some extent) has serious cultural barriers towards using transit. I did see a few tweets from someone I know from Price Hill who is most likely along a bus route still complaining about not finding parking on opening day when really with the amount of time she spent finding parking she could have easily just hopped on a bus and not had to have delt with it. Why didn't she ride transit when it was an option, and a viable one given the circumstances? These issues have to be addressed in order for better transit to exist.
April 8, 201510 yr The inside blue for the seats is really really sharp. It's hard to judge the "inside blue" in a vacuum until you see the completed, finished project in its entirety! #judgmentreserved
April 8, 201510 yr LA County has a 1/2 cent sales tax that funds a bus on every route every 10 minutes during the day and every 15 minutes off-peak. The goal was to have a bus system where you didn't need a schedule. They bought a ton of new buses to achieve that frequency, obviously. This is exactly what Cincinnati should do. The bus system will always do the heavy lifting in our transit system even with streetcar extensions and one or two light rail lines (which we don't even have currently.) Increase frequncies and add real time arrival data. This is how we can reduce auto dependence and enable density. www.cincinnatiideas.com
April 8, 201510 yr ^ Yes. And more cross-town routes that use Liberty or Findlay and drop off at streetcar stops for transfer to other points in downtown/OTR.
April 8, 201510 yr LA County has a 1/2 cent sales tax that funds a bus on every route every 10 minutes during the day and every 15 minutes off-peak. The goal was to have a bus system where you didn't need a schedule. They bought a ton of new buses to achieve that frequency, obviously. This is exactly what Cincinnati should do. The bus system will always do the heavy lifting in our transit system even with streetcar extensions and one or two light rail lines (which we don't even have currently.) Increase frequncies and add real time arrival data. This is how we can reduce auto dependence and enable density. LA county has a total of three 1/2 cent transit taxes passed since 1980, for a total of 1.5%. Each of those three taxes pays for something different but there is some overlap. It's pretty complex and the relationship between the taxes has dictated the shape of the county's rail system. For example, one of the taxes can pay for surface rail but not rail in subway tunnels, another has part dedicated for commuter rail, and another has part dedicated to HOV lanes and bus-only lanes and busways.
April 8, 201510 yr ^ Yes. And more cross-town routes that use Liberty or Findlay and drop off at streetcar stops for transfer to other points in downtown/OTR. Findlay is tough because it switches from two way to one way and is a bit crowded. McMicken though, is only 1 block from Henry and is a decent route to cross part of the urban basin
April 8, 201510 yr Regarding transit naming rights: The Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals will pay $6.25 million over 25 years to name the nine-mile Euclid Corridor route the HealthLine. http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2008/02/clinic_uh_pay_to_name_bus_line.html CSU is paying $150,000 a year to put the school's name on the upgraded 55 route, which begins service in November. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_state_university_buy.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 9, 201510 yr Track bed is cut from 4th street all the way to the stop at 5th on Walnut. Looks great to see the trench. They are in the process of vacuuming it out, then they will lay the base, rebar, steel, pour concrete, etc. When both that section of walnut and the 12th street curve on Main are completed, which should be in about 3 weeks, we will be 450 feet away from having 2.8 miles of contiguous rail. By the all star game (mid July) We should have 3.1 miles of contiguous rail (rail to about 7th Street on Main). Also, around mid-July the OTR loop will be completed. That means all wires up, power on (though it would likely be turned back off after testing), signals switched, streets repaved, etc. That will be a huge milestone to celebrate.
April 9, 201510 yr Yeah its crazy in only a few months the OTR loop will be done and we'll be seeing vehicles running for tests. Hard to believe we're almost there.
April 10, 201510 yr Author Metro is holding two public meetings for comments on fare structure and operating hours. Monday, April 20, 2015 from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Main Branch of The Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County in the Huenefeld Tower Room (100), 800 Vine Street, Cincinnati OH 45202, served by all downtown Metro routes Monday, April 27, 2015 from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. at the Over-The-Rhine Recreation Center meeting room, 1715 Republic Street, Cincinnati, OH 45201, served by Metro Rts. 46 & 78. You can also provide comments online here- http://www.go-metro.com/riding-metro/cincinnati-streetcar/streetcar-public-meetings
April 10, 201510 yr I was thinking the other day, what if COAST or someone in the Cranley administration hires someone to block the streetcar with broken down cars, etc. to create another firestorm? I have a feeling it may happen, and if it did it wouldn't surprise me at all!
April 10, 201510 yr I was thinking the other day, what if COAST or someone in the Cranley administration hires someone to block the streetcar with broken down cars, etc. to create another firestorm? I have a feeling it may happen, and if it did it wouldn't surprise me at all! If it does become a problem the city should look into more expensive parking infractions for blocking the streetcar. On top of the $50 ticket and whatever the towing/impound fee is, there should be a very large fine for impeding public transit or something along those lines. But, I don't think Cranley or even COAST (who has been basically non-existant since Cranley threw some cash their way in that settlement) would go so far as to collude to block the streetcar tracks.
April 10, 201510 yr ^^ That would be criminal to stop public transit on purpose. Hopefully Cranley has learned from Christie.
April 10, 201510 yr What was Christie's punishment? He seemed to get away with it. There was no evidence that Christie had any knowledge of that, but the aides responsible for it were either fired or resigned. Of course he could have told them what to do off the record, but none of those found responsible have said that was the case. The Cincinnati Streetcar version, probably consisting of Cranley sitting in a dark back room at a Gold Star, directing Kevin Osborne to push derelict cars onto the streetcar tracks would make for a good political cartoon though.
April 11, 201510 yr I was part of the panel that was involved in picking the colors. We were offered two choices of 'orange' of which the daffodil yellow was the lighter. The reason given was that it was in fact based on the heritage burnt orange color as originally noted above but not supposed to be exact. The panels (there were two sessions) actually picked the darker of the two which was closer to the original color scheme. That selection was overruled by Mayor Mallory as being too close to Bengals orange. So ultimately it was Mayor Mallory that made the final selection of Daffodil Yellow. We also selected the blue color for the seats and hand straps etc on the interior. They had color swatches painted on metal so we could see exactly what it would look like. There was a lot of deliberation. But we were never given the option of other exterior color beside the two shades of orange (yellow).
April 12, 201510 yr In daytime photos the Atlanta streetcar (green purple & blue) is beautiful. But transit vehicles are benefited by being more visible at night. Ours will be quite reflective/visible.
April 12, 201510 yr In daytime photos the Atlanta streetcar (green purple & blue) is beautiful. But transit vehicles are benefited by being more visible at night. Ours will be quite reflective/visible. I believe I heard that the logo will be retroreflective so it will help the streetcar be more visible at night.
April 13, 201510 yr I met a manager for one of the contractors (name and company withheld) on the streetcar project at a birthday party at a retirement home this weekend...said without any prompting from myself (keep in mind I had just met the guy) that he and the others working on the project hate Cranley and they are extra-focused on coming in ahead of schedule and under-budget to make him look bad. I asked him if they've had to break up any concrete or had any noteworthy setbacks and he said "no, everyone working on this project is good".
April 13, 201510 yr ^ There were like two minor sections where the concrete will have to be redone because people stepped in/wrote on the wet concrete. Other than that, they seem to be flying.
April 13, 201510 yr I was in Cincinnati on Saturday. The first time I had been there during the day since last year. I took a few shots of the streetcar construction. Including a stop that looks like it's already had some use.
April 13, 201510 yr Most of the stops are already pretty dinged and scraped. People who can't drive their cars seem to be running into them.
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