Very few are really there at that hour though. A good test would be to get up at 6 and just go stand around Washington Park (or somewhere else) and watch the level of traffic, pedestrian or otherwise. It's more or less nonexistent.

 

I guess I can see wanting to try to make sure you capture some of the programming along the line, but the question is whether this or better headways at peak hours is more important if we're working within a set operating budget.

 

The streetcar can't be everything to everyone and needs to be operated in such a manner that makes it successful as a system even if this means maybe missing out on some hours that could potentially have a small amount of customers.

I agree that there is no need for a 6am streetcar.  I don't see many people out on the street in OTR at that time.  I think option 2 makes the most sense assuming that most of the ridership will be coming from people out having fun.  It needs to stay open late on the weekends for sure

Additionally, I think the operating hours should be reviewed every 6 months or so for the first couple of years. SORTA should analyze when people actually use the streetcar and adjust accordingly. If the mornings are busier than expected, move the start time a little earlier. If the streetcars are crowded at lunch, increase the frequency to 10 minutes from 11-1.

Here's Tuscon's frequencies- http://www.sunlinkstreetcar.com/documents/route_map_new%20schedule.pdf

 

 

^At the same time, if we have city sponsored events at Fountain Square that end after the streetcar, and people who were relying on the streetcar can't get back to their cars on OTR (or reverse) they might choose not to ride the streetcar again.

 

Obviously you cannot be everything for everyone, and I understand the importance of increasing frequency, but I don't think a 15 minute headway on Sundays or a 12 minute headway during rush is going to turn people away who would accept a 10 minute headway at peak and 12 minute headway on Sundays.

 

I would be fine moving operations up to 7am on weekdays, but that doesn't seem like enough. Portland's streetcar starts at 5:30am. I understand they have a larger system that people rely on to get to work in the morning, but that would be a full 1.5 hours earlier than a 7am start time. Something tells me they aren't running empty streetcars at 6:30am and still opening at 5:30.

Firm selected to sell streetcar naming rights

Advertising Vehicles Inc. will sell naming rights and advertising on Cincinnati's streetcar, according to the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority.

Any revenue from advertising and naming rights will go into the costs to operate the streetcar, which is roughly $4 million in the first year.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/10/firm-selected-to-sell-streetcar-naming-rights.html

Portland's business world is also a lot less old fashioned and has a lot more variation in work hours from what I've seen/heard. Many (I'd say the vast majority even) of the non-service businesses Downtown and in OTR have start times in the 8-10 range and end times in the 4-6 range.

Week day opening time for streetcars in other cities are pretty varied:

 

Seattle: 6am/5am depending on which line

Portland: 5:30am

Tuscon: 7am

Atlanta: 6am

Dallas: 5am

Notice that Tuscon's frequencies go up to 20 minutes peak / 30 minutes off-peak on weekends. So they have decided to go for longer hours and less frequency. I don't think that's the ideal choice for us.

Portland's business world is also a lot less old fashioned and has a lot more variation in work hours from what I've seen/heard. Many (I'd say the vast majority even) of the non-service businesses Downtown and in OTR have start times in the 8-10 range and end times in the 4-6 range.

 

Some of that is just a function of being on the west coast.  My company's Portland office has MANY employees that start work at 5AM because they want to go home early and the east coast offices are opening around that time.  At our Cincinnati office, practically no one starts before 7AM.

Here's some video I took from this morning's test:

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this.  I love the sound of the horn and the bell!

The sound it makes before crossing Liberty Street has been officially nicknamed the "GFTOutta The Way Horn".

Talking about sound, on your video Travis it seems very quiet except for the bell and horn.  Maybe a bit of screetching because of the wheels but is that expected since it is all brand new?  It seemed like the cars were making more noise than the actual streetcar.  It also looked like it was moving a bit faster towards the end of the video and still very quiet.

The trains will spray oil around turns to keep them from screeching. I believe they said that aspect isn't functional yet so expect them to stay quiet even when in full speed operation.

 

There are videos from other cities of these trains operating at full speed. They don't make anymore noise than any other vehicle on the road and are far quieter than many, especially diesel buses.

Does it become too complex to alter the schedule based on events? If not, I like the idea of having it run X minutes after a special event (e.g., Reds game, Bengals primetime game, etc). That way you can cut the hours earlier (10 pm or so) and still cater to larger crowds past that time.

The oil-spray on the wheels is controlled by GPS which opens the valves right before the streetcar makes a turn.

There are videos from other cities of these trains operating at full speed. They don't make anymore noise than any other vehicle on the road and are far quieter than many, especially diesel buses.

 

True, but the ones in Portland make an audible hum.  It's definitely quieter than a bus, but it's there.  I can't tell from the video if our streetcar is quieter than the Portland ones, and if so, whether that's a function of the design or the slow speed of the train during testing.  Looking forward to seeing/hearing them at full speed.

That electrical hum you hear in other systems will be there but from all the videos I've seen of the CAF Urbos 3 trains they seem like they are pretty damn quiet which is nice.

 

 

This video does a good job of showing them operating in real world conditions.

^our interior layout is way more open.

Are there any plans for the Cincinnati Streetcar supporter group (simply CincyStreetcar[/member] on Twitter and Cincinnati Streetcar on Facebook) to relinquish their pages? I think it's really confusing when the official streetcar pages don't have the proper names. The group often posts very negative things about Cranley and generally is abrasive at times with other commentators. I imagine most people don't realize this isn't the official Cincinnati Streetcar page.

 

On Facebook the official one is "Cincinnati Streetcar 2016". Kinda clunky. I know that Derek is involved in the Facebook group as he sometimes posts identical messages on it and his personal FB profile. I appreciate the work everyone has done on it, but it seems like y'all should coordinate some transfer of ownership or name to the official page.

Are there any plans for the Cincinnati Streetcar supporter group (simply CincyStreetcar[/member] on Twitter and Cincinnati Streetcar on Facebook) to relinquish their pages? I think it's really confusing when the official streetcar pages don't have the proper names. The group often posts very negative things about Cranley and generally is abrasive at times with other commentators. I imagine most people don't realize this isn't the official Cincinnati Streetcar page.

 

On Facebook the official one is "Cincinnati Streetcar 2016". Kinda clunky. I know that Derek is involved in the Facebook group as he sometimes posts identical messages on it and his personal FB profile. I appreciate the work everyone has done on it, but it seems like y'all should coordinate some transfer of ownership or name to the official page.

 

The issue is that page is an absolute megaphone with a nationwide following at this point. I don't think that that should be given up. Also the "official" project can't advocate properly and forcefully for itself and its own expansion because it's a public entity. I think Derek does a good job of keeping things civil and clean. Most anti-streetcar comments are simply deleted instead of engaging in nasty arguments which I think is smart.

I have had similar thoughts. I think the best solution would be for the unofficial accounts to be given to / renamed Cincinnati Street Railway (the non-profit being formed to support and promote the streetcar), and the "CincyStreetcar" screen names given over to SORTA.

2 cars is roughly 15 minute service, 3 cars is roughly 12 minute service. 4 cars would be roughly 8 minute service. Like thebillshark just said, all times vary slightly due to the mixed-traffic nature of streetcars.

If this is the case, why do all the proposed schedules stop at just 3 cars running simultaneously? During morning rush, lunch, evenings and special events couldn't we get the fourth out on the loop as well to cut down headways?

Some issue with the track at Main & Central Parkway:

According to Chris Seelbach it was minor concrete error that they're accounting for.

2 cars is roughly 15 minute service, 3 cars is roughly 12 minute service. 4 cars would be roughly 8 minute service. Like thebillshark just said, all times vary slightly due to the mixed-traffic nature of streetcars.

If this is the case, why do all the proposed schedules stop at just 3 cars running simultaneously? During morning rush, lunch, evenings and special events couldn't we get the fourth out on the loop as well to cut down headways?

 

They don't. When they say Peak Hour that means 3 cars.  non-peak is 2 cars. 

I think he was asking why not run four trains for peak hours to get super quick headways? Beyond budget is there a reason we can't run 4 at rush hour?

You can add this 8000 sq. ft. 2-level downtown hardware store to the ever increasing list of businesses that cite the streetcar as a major reason for their investment.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/11/exclusive-full-service-hardware-store-coming-to.html

Does anyone have the list of the 41 businesses that opened last year in OTR? I came up WAY short of 41 when trying to think of everything that opened in 2015.

So so excited for Woods Hardware. That's going to be a great addition to downtown and OTR. It's a beautiful building.

After 9 years of volunteer effort building the CincyStreetcar[/member] brand, thousands of dollars in promoted posts to build our following and now with over 20k followers on Facebook and Twitter, the Admins of cincystreetcar Facebook and Twitter will absolutely not turn them over to any governmental agency. Frankly, without that advocacy and media channel for our activism, it's likely the streetcar wouldn't exist. We will continue to use it to advocate for the project, supportive businesses, and supportive leaders. The about sections are very clear that they're are citizen advocacy pages.

Does anyone have the list of the 41 businesses that opened last year in OTR? I came up WAY short of 41 when trying to think of everything that opened in 2015.

I saw the chamber printed a map that located and categorized the new businesses, but I never saw a listing.

I saw that map and could name a lot of them but there are a bunch that I just drew complete blanks on.

After 9 years of volunteer effort building the CincyStreetcar[/member] brand, thousands of dollars in promoted posts to build our following and now with over 20k followers on Facebook and Twitter, the Admins of cincystreetcar Facebook and Twitter will absolutely not turn them over to any governmental agency. Frankly, without that advocacy and media channel for our activism, it's likely the streetcar wouldn't exist. We will continue to use it to advocate for the project, supportive businesses, and supportive leaders. The about sections are very clear that they're are citizen advocacy pages.

 

I'm not arguing about the contribution of the group. I agree that without it we likely wouldn't have a streetcar today (no saying with certainty how a parallel universe would work out, but I would bet a lot of money on it). It's just a shame that the actual streetcar can't get the handle @ CincyStreetcar. There will undoubtedly be lots of people sending tweets to that account asking questions about operations and sending complaints like they do to SORTA's Twitter account.

 

I'm not saying you should decommission the page, but it would be nice to find a compromise where you can keep the page active under some other name that still advocates for expanded rail in Cincy. I understand what you say in the about section, but I don't know the last time I looked at an About section on Facebook. You only see that if you are looking for it. And quite frankly, I don't think the page would still need those monikers to promote expansion. A lot of people already follow the group on twitter and facebook. Changing the name (as taestelle pointed out) would probably be ok.

 

Hopefully the city can get those blue check marks or something next to their pages to show they are official. That will help some.

 

None of this was meant as a slight to the operators of the group. I just think it would be helpful for users of the streetcar to have the official account have the simplest name.

The supporters already turned the properties over once.... and the City/SORTA did basically nothing with them.

I noticed that SORTA started a new email list today for Streetcar news. So it looks like those communications will be handed over shortly from the City to SORTA. Hopefully this is good news and we will start to see more communication similar to what other cities with modern streetcars are doing, instead of just the pure "here's the facts" updates the City has done so far.

Once it gets running how much news can there possibly concerning this thing?  It would be like having a social media person just for two miles of the #17.

Once it gets running how much news can there possibly concerning this thing?  It would be like having a social media person just for two miles of the #17.

 

Service updates and temporary closures. That's about it. Maybe safety tips.

You can add this 8000 sq. ft. 2-level downtown hardware store to the ever increasing list of businesses that cite the streetcar as a major reason for their investment.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/11/11/exclusive-full-service-hardware-store-coming-to.html

 

I met Matt Woods on a streetcar tour in Portland a couple of months ago. He is very excited about the Cincinnati streetcar and how it will pass so close to his business.

Once it gets running how much news can there possibly concerning this thing?  It would be like having a social media person just for two miles of the #17.

 

Updates on future phases.

2 cars is roughly 15 minute service, 3 cars is roughly 12 minute service. 4 cars would be roughly 8 minute service. Like thebillshark just said, all times vary slightly due to the mixed-traffic nature of streetcars.

If this is the case, why do all the proposed schedules stop at just 3 cars running simultaneously? During morning rush, lunch, evenings and special events couldn't we get the fourth out on the loop as well to cut down headways?

 

We can not rely on having four streetcars running simultaneously. Right now our system is new, but imagine 10 years from now when we start needing to do routine maintenance on the streetcars. So one will be in the shop having repairs done, leaving four streetcars available. Three of those can be in service, and the fourth one needs to be ready to go as a "hot spare" in case of emergency -- let's say a drunk person vomits inside the streetcar. That one would be immediately taken out of service and the fourth streetcar would be put into service while the mess is cleaned up. If you rely on four streetcars operating, you may not have a spare available and headways will suffer.

It's not just the maintenance needed. Every vehicle also requires a driver and power, and that adds to an operating budget that is sort of wishfully constructed already.

^ Sure. But let's say the business community realizes that the streetcar is a successful project in 5 years and offers to put up the funding to run 4 streetcars at peak times to get 10 minute headways. We won't even be able to do that until/unless they're willing to put up more funding to buy an additional streetcar. And it would take about 2 years from the time we placed the order and the time it arrives in Cincinnati.

Everyone seems to be forgetting we own 5 cars. We will never ever ever ever operate 5 and almost never operate 4.  At any given time 3 are in service (peak hour), one is available to immediately be brought into service, and one is getting maintenance work done.

I think they will operate five streetcars during some events, assuming the vehicles and the route are reliable.

I could see mpmf paying for that during that event.  Shame Oktoberfest seems to not want to change...

Resistance isn't so much from Oktoberfest managers as from Cincinnati Parks not wanting it on the riverfront.

Would it be feasible for 3CDC to step in and put it in Washington Park?  OTR seems like a rational place to have Oktoberfest...

 

What would be reasons for the parks board to be opposed?

 

It seems like establishment folks in Cincy are their own worst enemy sometimes...

^ Probably not enough parking to do it in OTR, though the streetcar could ferry people from the garages in the CBD. Dunno what Parks' problem is, just that they don't want events down there.

Wasn't that kind of the point of the riverfront park...?

 

Hopefully people could push for it to move there enough for them to actually consider it. It would just make so much more sense from both a logistics standpoint and an enjoyment standpoint. The events on 5th are way too crowded and bottlenecked to be fun.