Developer cites streetcar as motivation for midrise condo towers on Main St.:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/10/50m-condo-towers-planned-for-downtown-cincinnati.html#i1

 

If this project goes forward I really hope the City tries to get it built with no parking.  It's right on the Streetcar line in heart of downtown.  Doing something like that is far more important than getting the streetcar up the hill.  The rendering looks like the ground for levels will be parking garage though.

Ground level is retail and amenity space for the condos above. Floors 2-3 are parking. Floors 4-14/15 are condos in the 600k-900k range. Meaning not having parking as an available option would be very challenging to get these built.

^I'm okay with some parking.  I like that they are selling the parking independently of the condos though.  That way, instead of forcing everyone to take one spot, buyers can choose to buy zero, one, or two, depending on what they actually need.

Developer cites streetcar as motivation for midrise condo towers on Main St.:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/10/50m-condo-towers-planned-for-downtown-cincinnati.html#i1

 

If this project goes forward I really hope the City tries to get it built with no parking.  It's right on the Streetcar line in heart of downtown.  Doing something like that is far more important than getting the streetcar up the hill.  The rendering looks like the ground for levels will be parking garage though.

 

It would be nearly impossible to have financing approved on a condo tower with no parking. One of the primary reasons people advocate for parking maximums -- going above and beyond simply abolishing parking minimums -- is to eliminate banks' power to set their own minimums for financing.

I agree.  The parking seems to be very in line with where we are right now as far as development matching desired lifestyle choices. The Cincy metro has deplorable mass transit, and we are no where near approaching a place where mass numbers of high priced condos can sell without available parking.

At this price range in Cincy, and who the target market probably is, these buyers expect to have available parking.  Of course parking could be fulfilled in neighboring buildings, but as a new build, there's no reason to not include it in the structure.

That and the ground levels are still commercial/occupiable space. The ground level interaction will still be nice with only the ramp entrances off 8th being the exception.

 

The second and third floors being fully parking means there won't be a ton of life in those two levels, but if they're at the very least detailed nicely it will still make for a comfortable, pedestrian addition to Main Street.

That and the ground levels are still commercial/occupiable space. The ground level interaction will still be nice with only the ramp entrances off 8th being the exception.

 

The second and third floors being fully parking means there won't be a ton of life in those two levels, but if they're at the very least detailed nicely it will still make for a comfortable, pedestrian addition to Main Street.

 

Detailing is key, and the next level would be building flat decks so the condo or retail portions of the building could be expanded to the parking levels, should that be feasible and desired in the future.

That and the ground levels are still commercial/occupiable space. The ground level interaction will still be nice with only the ramp entrances off 8th being the exception.

 

The second and third floors being fully parking means there won't be a ton of life in those two levels, but if they're at the very least detailed nicely it will still make for a comfortable, pedestrian addition to Main Street.

 

Detailing is key, and the next level would be building flat decks so the condo or retail portions of the building could be expanded to the parking levels, should that be feasible and desired in the future.

 

YES!  Designing the garage spaces for further expansion of the living spaces would be smart.  The new Dunhumby USA building, (I never remember the stupid coordinate based name), was designed in such a way to allow expansion of the office spaces in the future if need be.

That and the ground levels are still commercial/occupiable space. The ground level interaction will still be nice with only the ramp entrances off 8th being the exception.

 

The second and third floors being fully parking means there won't be a ton of life in those two levels, but if they're at the very least detailed nicely it will still make for a comfortable, pedestrian addition to Main Street.

 

Detailing is key, and the next level would be building flat decks so the condo or retail portions of the building could be expanded to the parking levels, should that be feasible and desired in the future.

 

YES!  Designing the garage spaces for further expansion of the living s[aces would be smart.  The new Dunhumby USA building, (I never remember the stupid coordinate based name), was designed in such a way to allow expension of the office spaces in the future if need be.

 

Eighty Four point Fifty One Degrees

Testing on 12th Street the other day:

 

Testing on 12th Street the other day:

 

 

Man, that thing looks good!

Kathump-kathump-kathump?  Time for the wheel lathe already? 

Kathump-kathump-kathump?  Time for the wheel lathe already? 

 

Intentionally doing speed tests and emergency stops can cause flat spots; fortunately the wheel truing machine is installed and working well.

Wth? Someone ran in-front of the streetcar and almost got hit in that video.

Another project along the streetcar line!!

http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/14/exclusive-tom-neyer-jr-to-redevelop-building-along.html

I hope that's not the "major development news" they mentioned last week.

 

Regardless, this proves the previous plan for this building has fallen through. If anyone doesn't recall it was going to get a 5 story addition and entirely new facade along with ground level retail space. Decent program but really terribly ugly, early 90s postmodern looking execution.

 

Hopefully some sort of addition happens here and the ground level is opened up. This building has terrible street presence as it stands but wouldn't take a ton of effort to become a structure that activates its surroundings.

 

I hope that's not the "major development news" they mentioned last week.

 

Regardless, this proves the previous plan for this building has fallen through. If anyone doesn't recall it was going to get a 5 story addition and entirely new facade along with ground level retail space. Decent program but really terribly ugly, early 90s postmodern looking execution.

 

Hopefully some sort of addition happens here and the ground level is opened up. This building has terrible street presence as it stands but wouldn't take a ton of effort to become a structure that activates its surroundings.

 

Not sure if that is the news or this:

 

http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/14/exclusive-70m-redevelopment-planned-for-historic.html

I just saw that. Now I don't know what to think haha. So much new development announced in a short period!

Since, for a statewide forum, a pretty absurd number of forumers here live in precinct 17-B (a few blocks around Washington Park), I'd like to remind everyone that Sean M. Lee is running for Democratic Party precinct executive, he is involved in Believe in Cincinnati and is a streetcar supporter. He is running against a Cranley PAC backed candidate.

Crossing over from another thread...

 

For those of you scoring at home, each new $1m of development generates $4,617 a year in VTICA funding for commercial, office or apartments (does not apply to single family homes or condos without a commercial element).

 

So essentially, all $250 M of proposed downtown development actually happens, that will result in $1,154,250 coming in annually for streetcar operations. (I'm also assuming that SkyHouse will be within the boundary that pays VTICA for the streetcar.)

 

If new development continues at this pace, it'll only take a few years before the streetcar is "paying for itself" (which is, as you all know, a ridiculous standard that we don't hold any other type of transportation project to).

Every time I'm in a city that has light rail (which is, at this point, every medium to large American city), I pay close attention to bikes near the tracks to see if there are any problems. In the span of 5 minutes, I saw all of these people biking between or around the tracks in Sacramento's downtown transit mall:

 

 

 

 

So, it's not a big deal. All of the whiners who insist Cincinnati's streetcar tracks are death for cyclists need to grow up.

Every time I'm in a city that has light rail (which is, at this point, every medium to large American city),

 

Bzzzt! Guess which city in that category doesn't have it.

I ride next to the MAX tracks in Portland constantly. It's no biggie as long as you aren't being careless.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/03/16/ono-bring-streetcar-uc/81859896/

 

This is pretty amazing news. News we all hoped would come, but a big deal now that it's official.

Every time I'm in a city that has light rail (which is, at this point, every medium to large American city),

 

Bzzzt! Guess which city in that category doesn't have it.

 

Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Las Vegas, Jacksonville, Orlando. 

I ride next to the MAX tracks in Portland constantly. It's no biggie as long as you aren't being careless.

 

The Cincinnati tracks are different.  The gap for the flanges seems to be wider and deeper, and then the tracks swoop across the street more times in a smaller area.  One of those land shifts is of course for the Uptown Connector that would be operational as we speak if not for the election of John Kasich. 

Santa Ono's (and thus University's) endorsement of the streetcar is huge. It means they will be putting pressure on City Council for the expansion. When one of the city's largest employers says they need it, I hope Cranley will listen (but probably not). I really didn't expect this from Ono until after operations had started.

The newly elected Board of Trustees chair likely was a part of a much larger effort to put people in place to push for an Uptown expansion.

I know the student body is in favor of getting the streetcar up the hill. They hang out in OTR and Downtown and would love to be able to take the streetcar there. This is a big change even from a few years ago when very few UC students were spending much time in those neighborhoods.

The current crop of students at UC has only ever known OTR/Downtown as cool places to go out (unless they grew up in Cincy and are still holding onto old mindsets) so it makes sense they'd be more on board (PUNS!) with expanding the streetcar. The areas they've always known as entertaining and fun are so close to being easily reached from UC. That wasn't the case when I started college in 2007 since very little was happening in the core.

Here's the full video. I thought you could start the video at a specific point. It doesn't seem to work.

 

25.25 - Cincy #1 in Ohio (by a wide margin) for graduating CEOs

 

26.39 - Bring the Streetcar uptown

 

Here are ridership stats in Boston, where you can see that Harvard, which has half the student population as UC, has the third-busiest station in the system.  Mayor Cranley went to Harvard and almost certainly did not have a car while a student there.  He knows this stuff but can't help but lie.  It would be like Neil Armstrong saying the moon doesn't exist. 

 

The current crop of students at UC has only ever known OTR/Downtown as cool places to go out (unless they grew up in Cincy and are still holding onto old mindsets) so it makes sense they'd be more on board (PUNS!) with expanding the streetcar. The areas they've always known as entertaining and fun are so close to being easily reached from UC. That wasn't the case when I started college in 2007 since very little was happening in the core.

 

It's been pretty amazing to watch the shift in attitude of students over my past five years at UC. People hardly ever wanted to even leave Calhoun Street, and this was when USquare was still a tailgate lot. No one would want to leave campus, and friends' parents would always warn about how we were guaranteed to get mugged. The only way I was able to get my friend to walk from Fountain Square to Findlay Market was by conveniently forgetting to mention that we were actually in OTR, because as a lifelong Cincinnatian she had no idea what OTR was actually like. And to think that back then Washington Park was still a hole in the ground! I can't imagine an entire generation of concertgoers only ever seeing the backside of Music Hall when they went to the CSO because they wouldn't dare cross Central Parkway.

 

Everyone I talk to really wants the streetcar to come to Uptown. People have either experienced good transit in other cities and want to see it work here in Cincinnati, or they just see it as an easier way to get down to Vine Street. Either way, there's definitely been a shift and it's been truly incredible to watch such dramatic changes.

 

Now if we can get people to stop driving three blocks and either walk or take the streetcar between places  :wink:...

Here are ridership stats in Boston, where you can see that Harvard, which has half the student population as UC, has the third-busiest station in the system.  Mayor Cranley went to Harvard and almost certainly did not have a car while a student there.  He knows this stuff but can't help but lie.  It would be like Neil Armstrong saying the moon doesn't exist.

 

I asked him that very question several years ago, whether he used the T at Harvard.  He said he did and it was great.  I followed up about the streetcar and he just claimed that the two were totally different without making any specific distinctions.

To be fair, they are very different. Now, Cranley would have less wiggle room is a serious discussion evolved regarding boring a tunnel under Mt Auburn to create a 1 or 2-stop connection to UC. That would be much more similar to a traditional subway experience, like in Boston.

The thing that is so annoying is Cranley's response to this.  "They can pay for it if they want, we don't have the money".

 

It's just such a turn off for so many people.  Come on Mr. Cranley, we know that the money is tight, but sit down and look for ways to make it happen if you are truly progressive.  I know he isn't, but it just looks bad.  It's like your Dad saying when you are growing up "Sorry son, we can't afford to go to the baseball game, we don't have the money", while he fills the fridge up with another case of beer.

Sorry if this has been talked about before but I surely can't believe this would be true (see link below) about the current streetcars not being able to make it up the hill?

 

http://csnbbs.com/thread-774435-post-13115380.html#pid13115380

 

Untrue. We evaluated five vehicles for their ability to climb Vine Street. Only one of them, the Siemens S-70, was rejected because the engineers doubted it's ability to make the grade with a full load of passengers

Thanks John, that's what I figured. It's amazing the amount of false crap that is spewed by people.

Do our cars have electromagnetic track brakes or is that just an option? 

They do in fact have electromagnetic track breaks for last resort, emergency stopping.

What do people know about this proposed ordinance? I don't think public transportation should be stopped (for example Oktoberfest would halt operations from Friday-Sunday). Why can't Oktoberfest or the Taste of Cincinnati take place around the Banks or Smale Riverfront Park?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/proposed-law-would-mean-cincinnati-streetcar-wont-disrupt-oktoberfest-other-heritage-events

That proposed ordinance is ridiculous and I hope it fails. We should stick by the original plan, “No special event will be permitted to…disrupt or infringe upon streetcar service.”

That proposed ordinance is ridiculous and I hope it fails. We should stick by the original plan, “No special event will be permitted to…disrupt or infringe upon streetcar service.”

 

Agreed. This was discussed way back when, in this thread, probably. Hopefully logic will prevail and the events will be moved to Smale so we can take full advantage of the new and improved infrastructure we have and I don't just mean the streetcar.

 

EDIT: After looking at the list of events (below), I can see it's more complicated than just relocating...see Opening Day Parade. Where does that go if not Race or Elm?

 

- Flying Pig Marathon

- Taste of Cincinnati

- Opening Day Parade

- Oktoberfest-Zinzinnati

- Thanksgiving Day 10K

- Heart Mini Marathon

- Health Expo

I also think that the city should work with the organizers and offer to shut down for very specific time periods.

 

It's incredibly difficult to schedule the Flying Pig Marathon because you have to have a very precise distance. I think if the streetcar is operating during the Flying Pig, they should just stop running the streetcar in the Downtown loop whenever it interferes (I think only at the beginning). But the streetcar is supposed to move people around, and if Oktoberfest can't see the benefit of changing their layout, that's a shame.

The thanksgiving day race crosses the streetcar route once at 0.73 miles into the route; you could start the system 30 minutes late that day and avoid any conflicts

Things like the marathon would interfere much less than Oktoberfest or Taste. Shutting down service for a few hours is much different than shutting off service for 3 days.

I just spent a minute with the google earth measure tool to compare the Mt. Auburn Tunnel concept, with an extension of streetcar tracks beginning at Central Parkway, to several other concepts.  The point of this is to show how far the current Henry St. terminus is to various points as compared to Central Parkway at Walnut/Main.

 

Mt. Auburn Tunnel concept

5,000 feet: Christ Hospital

10,000 feet: Jefferson/MLK

15,000 feet: Reading/MLK

20,000 feet: just short of Xavier University on disused CL&N ROW

 

Clifton Ave. Tunnel (extend track north from Henry to McMicken St. tunnel portal, surface near Deconess Hospital)

5,000 feet: McMicken Hall

10,000 feet: Skyline Chili at Clifton & Ludlow

15,000 feet: Cincinnati State

20,000 feet: Hamilton Ave. at Pullen (north of Chase Ave.)

 

 

I did this to illustrate that the east/west track on CP & 12th + the norh/south running to Findlay Market is a lot more track than it appears.  Getting to Northside via Clifton & Ludlow would permit elimination of the #17 bus south of Northside, a huge savings for Metro.  U of Michigan is justifying its proposed $700 million light rail system in part because operations cost of large light rail trains will be about the same as current shuttle buses on the same (actually slightly longer -- the light rail line will have a short dedicated ROW that will shortcut the roads that the shuttles use) route today. 

 

 

That proposed ordinance is ridiculous and I hope it fails. We should stick by the original plan, “No special event will be permitted to…disrupt or infringe upon streetcar service.”

 

Agreed. This was discussed way back when, in this thread, probably. Hopefully logic will prevail and the events will be moved to Smale so we can take full advantage of the new and improved infrastructure we have and I don't just mean the streetcar.

 

EDIT: After looking at the list of events (below), I can see it's more complicated than just relocating...see Opening Day Parade. Where does that go if not Race or Elm?

 

- Flying Pig Marathon

- Taste of Cincinnati

- Opening Day Parade

- Oktoberfest-Zinzinnati

- Thanksgiving Day 10K

- Heart Mini Marathon

- Health Expo

 

What exactly is the Health Expo? When does it take place? How is it considered a Heritage event?

Also, from what I recall, the Heart Mini does not cross the streetcar course.  The streetcar would be an excellent way to shuttle participants to their cars, if they wanted.