March 23, 20169 yr Yeah. If at the meetings people are worried about that, I'll try to quell their fears. But the more names we get on the letter the better. I've already sent it to someone in the Mt. Auburn Community Council and will do the same for the OTR Community Council. Does anyone want to shop it to Downtown Residents Council, OTR Chamber, Main Street OTR, CUF Neighborhood Association, or West End Community Council? Or any other organizations who might be interested in supporting this and have standing in the community? Preferably someone who lives in the community would push this for the organization they ask to cover. I've attached the pdf document for you to use if you do. But if you're going to do it, let me know so that I know what groups are covered.
March 23, 20169 yr I really wish they would just move the festivals. I love attending them, but I just hate the wall-to-wall crowd.
March 23, 20169 yr Here's an idea: If Oktoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati want to shut down the downtown loop of the streetcar, they should pay SORTA for the loss in ridership of the streetcar. Similar to how you can reserve parking meters by paying for the parking spot the entire time to reimburse the city for its lost revenue. Do you really think those weekends will be high ridership weekends? People going to the festivals are not going to park and take the streetcar 2 blocks to the festival (At least I hope they would not be that lazy) nor will they take it on a joyride through OTR. Yes, it will inconvience some downtown residents who want to ride to Oktoberfest or the Taste, but the weekends will probably be slower times for the streetcar anyway.
March 23, 20169 yr Considering the average streetcar rider only takes it between 1-2 stops in other cities and visitors to these events are mostly from the suburbs, yes, it is likely that many would be using it to get around small distances.
March 23, 20169 yr Around Christmas time I've seen people taking the southbank shuttle from Fountain Square to the banks. I'm pretty sure people will use the streetcar in a similar way...
March 24, 20169 yr I bet they don't realize the tons of lost advertisement on the streetcar they lost for the events.
March 25, 20169 yr These event organizers have had over 2 years to plan their 2016/17 events around the streetcar and failed to do so. That's on them. It's not on them. They were there first. This applies to any project, not just the streetcar. If you want someone else to move to accomodate your project, you can ask them politely, but you can't expect them to move out of your way, at their cost, every time.
March 25, 20169 yr Incorrect. Festivals organizers must go to the city each year to ask for permission to close the streets to hold their festival. They do not have some intrinsic right to shut down the street. The city can lay out conditions and the organizers must comply with those conditions.
March 25, 20169 yr Eighth and State, still living in blissful ignorance after all these years. If the city wanted to run the streetcar during the events, they could've. Instead, we got this. I pray the event planners will see the significance of having the streetcar open and how many more people it will bring it.
March 25, 20169 yr These event organizers have had over 2 years to plan their 2016/17 events around the streetcar and failed to do so. That's on them. It's not on them. They were there first. This applies to any project, not just the streetcar. If you want someone else to move to accomodate your project, you can ask them politely, but you can't expect them to move out of your way, at their cost, every time. Really? You do realize buses have been at Government square since what seems like the beginning of time at this point. Yet somehow, along comes a street festival that closes it down each year. This has everything to do with what this region sees as a priority. Clearly, transit isn't one of them.
March 25, 20169 yr Sometimes I think Ohio exists in a whole different world. Here's how other places do things.
March 25, 20169 yr There is no debate to this issue at all. It is simply the mayor trying to stifle the success of the transit project in any way he still can. Reality is against him, though. As soon as the thing starts operating and people see how it fits into city life, logical roles for it like moving people during events will be so self-evident that nobody will ever remember that for the first 2 years of operation they shut it down during Octoberfest.
March 25, 20169 yr ^Exactly my point. One of the main purposes of a streetcar is to move large crowds of people in and out dense activity areas safely and efficiently. To say 'let's not run the streetcar when downtown is too crowded' is like saying...well, 'the flood gates are great but let's not use them when the river stage is high'?Lol! My point in posting about Toronto^^ I remember riding to the Exhibition on streetcars that were navigating thru large meandering crowds just fine. Study what other cities do to interface crowds with streetcars and copy!
March 25, 20169 yr These event organizers have had over 2 years to plan their 2016/17 events around the streetcar and failed to do so. That's on them. It's not on them. They were there first. This applies to any project, not just the streetcar. If you want someone else to move to accomodate your project, you can ask them politely, but you can't expect them to move out of your way, at their cost, every time. As others have mentioned, this statement is about 180 degrees from correct. The festival organizers rely on citizens granting them the use of our public property each year, and as such, have absolutely no authority to dictate how public transit will be operated to accommodate their event. In fact, they really don't even have a right to be involved in the discussion, much less a right to be asked politely. A street festival does not take priority over a several hundred million dollar transit system merely because it was 'there first'. We built a public transit system on public roads, and if you'd like to organize a street festival in a way that may interfere with the operation of our transit system, your street festival should be working around the public institution. You don't get grandfathered into anything that negatively affects a system that exists to serve the greater public. In a world beyond the 275 loop, I guess.
March 26, 20169 yr The festival organizers rely on citizens granting them the use of our public property each year, and as such, have absolutely no authority to dictate how public transit will be operated to accommodate their event. In fact, they really don't even have a right to be involved in the discussion, much less a right to be asked politely. Technically, this is true, but traditionally, the festival organizers have an unwritten right to use the streets at a certain time and location. Yes, they have to apply for a permit each year, and yes, the city could deny that permit, but the organizers have political clout. Imagine if the City of Boston tried to shut down the Boston Marathon for some reason. That event is over 100 years old, and attracts runners from all over the world. Yes, the city has the power to do it, but is it good for the city? A street festival does not take priority over a several hundred million dollar transit system merely because it was 'there first'. We built a public transit system on public roads, and if you'd like to organize a street festival in a way that may interfere with the operation of our transit system, your street festival should be working around the public institution. You don't get grandfathered into anything that negatively affects a system that exists to serve the greater public. The key here is the greater public good. Who says that the streetcar is more important? Obviously, streetcar supporters want the streetcar. Festival organizers want the festival.
March 26, 20169 yr In what world is this an either/or situation? That's the problem. Pretending one can't function without the other is idiotic and a purely fabricated fear by some of Cincy's politicians, not an actual problem that is insurmountable without precedent.
March 27, 20169 yr Never once have I heard the Taste of Cincinnati or Oktoberfest called a "heritage event" prior to Cranley's attempt to label them as such. This whole idea of "the event was here first, so they get to assume rights to the same location for the rest of time" is ridiculous. As a side note, this is exactly why a lot of people are opposed to building the Wasson Way bike trail in a way that prevents rail from being built in the future... because as soon as its built, people will use Cranley's logic and label it a "heritage trail" that can not ever be modified in the future. The thing is, at some point, the streetcar will be running during these festivals and events. The first year that happens, people are going to be nervous because it's something new. The only question is, do we rip off the band-aid and do it in 2016, or do we keep saying, "We need more time to figure this out, let's wait until next year..." Every year that you put off the inevitable, you're reducing the streetcar's ridership by shutting it down on the days that ridership would be highest.
March 28, 20169 yr Sometimes I think Ohio exists in a whole different world. Here's how other places do things. RIP Rob Ford :angel:
March 29, 20169 yr Streetcar supporters should patronize their establishments en masse and let the GM's know their support brought them there. 4EG operations are: IGBY'S KEYSTONE BAR & GRILL LACHEY'S THE LACKMAN LOW SPARK BAR MOUNT ADAMS PAVILION RIGHTEOUS ROOM THE ST CLAIR THE SANDBAR
March 29, 20169 yr I'm using Igby's for a pre-wedding cocktail event. So, I sent an email saying how happy I am that they are supporting the streetcar and that I'll be using them in the future.
March 29, 20169 yr It may be of interest that I first saw 4EG info late last night on twitter. Then expecting it to be headline news this morning and only the Business Courier has a story. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/29/cincinnati-streetcar-lands-1st-sponsorship.html
March 30, 20169 yr @RoadmapCincy tweeted a photo of the treatment the transit-only lane is getting. ^ A good start!
March 30, 20169 yr Author They need to make the lane on Race street that flows into that a right turn only lane. Also saw streetcar 1177 out today, much quieter around the turns than I'd heard before.
March 30, 20169 yr ^They really need this around Banks/Main St. People are always in the streetcar only lanes.
March 30, 20169 yr ^They really need this around Banks/Main St. People are always in the streetcar only lanes. They painted these at the Banks yesterday. It seems like they are doing it everywhere.
March 30, 20169 yr In Portland the original MAX light rail line travels in a lane paved with fairly rough stone. So it's still a functional lane, but it discourages cars from traveling in it.
March 30, 20169 yr In Portland the original MAX light rail line travels in a lane paved with fairly rough stone. So it's still a functional lane, but it discourages cars from traveling in it. There are some MAX lanes (particularly N, across the river) where the lane actually rises about a foot above the rest of the road as an indication that you aren't supposed to drive on it. My cousin didn't get the memo. He drove on it and tried to just merge into the proper lane OFF the raised portion. The bottom of his car did not like that.
March 31, 20169 yr I heard that they might also install white bollards on the double-solid white lines (similar to the Central Parkway bike lanes). Does anyone know if that's still the plan? Also, I assume they're going to do this on the Central Parkway transit-only lane at Walnut as well?
March 31, 20169 yr Streetcar supporters should patronize their establishments en masse and let the GM's know their support brought them there. 4EG operations are: IGBY'S KEYSTONE BAR & GRILL LACHEY'S THE LACKMAN LOW SPARK BAR MOUNT ADAMS PAVILION RIGHTEOUS ROOM THE ST CLAIR THE SANDBAR Also if you are in Chicago they own these places: AliveOne, Easy Bar, Esetell's and The Owl. I wish they'd open a keystone up here - love the mac & cheese.
March 31, 20169 yr So what's the rule? Is it "you may not drive in this lane at all"? Correct. These lanes are restricted to transit vehicles only. Trains, buses and Metro designated vehicles for use by street supervisors and admin. Basically "don't use this lane unless you know you're allowed to." I'm hoping they strike Henry Street similarly. People seem to have no idea they're driving illegally when they drive down that block to go south from Rhinegeist.
March 31, 20169 yr I heard that they might also install white bollards on the double-solid white lines (similar to the Central Parkway bike lanes). Does anyone know if that's still the plan? I sure hope not. That would be overkill.
March 31, 20169 yr ^Perhaps, but so far I see no difference on 2nd Street. Driver are still turning south into The Banks garage and Main Street from this lane. With the start of baseball season, it'll be interesting to see if drivers pay attention to the striping and if CPD does any enforcement. Speaking of baseball, I'd like to see the four streetcars parked on Second Street for Opening Day. Get crowds used to seeing them. Have Metro / City employees there to answer questions. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
March 31, 20169 yr I heard that they might also install white bollards on the double-solid white lines (similar to the Central Parkway bike lanes). Does anyone know if that's still the plan? I sure hope not. That would be overkill. I hope not so that it doesn't set a precedent.
March 31, 20169 yr Speaking of baseball, I'd like to see the four streetcars parked on Second Street for Opening Day. Get crowds used to seeing them. Have Metro / City employees there to answer questions. Park 3 there, have the other one in the parade on Race Street
March 31, 20169 yr ^They can't have the lines electrified during the parade. Too many risks of electrocution.
March 31, 20169 yr Could the streetcar be pulled by truck, or is the cost too high? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
March 31, 20169 yr Could the streetcar be pulled by truck, or is the cost too high? I think that would send the wrong message.
March 31, 20169 yr So what's the rule? Is it "you may not drive in this lane at all"? Correct. These lanes are restricted to transit vehicles only. Trains, buses and Metro designated vehicles for use by street supervisors and admin. Basically "don't use this lane unless you know you're allowed to." The city putting down the big white stripes is also a sign that these lanes are permanent and here to stay. I had heard some rumors that the Reds weren't too happy about the transit-only lanes and wanted them removed, which would obviously cause chaos because of the way the track is designed in that area.
March 31, 20169 yr I'm hoping they strike Henry Street similarly. People seem to have no idea they're driving illegally when they drive down that block to go south from Rhinegeist. The current striping on Henry Street makes no sense to me. There's a single solid white line painted down the middle of the street. Does that mean traffic must stay to the left of that line? To the right of it? (I realize that the street is marked "transit and local deliveries only", so technically nobody should be driving there.)
March 31, 20169 yr About DC streetcar... 7 things Washington DC's $200m streetcar taught us about public transport http://www.citymetric.com/transport/7-things-washington-dcs-200m-streetcar-taught-us-about-public-transport-1962
March 31, 20169 yr About DC streetcar... 7 things Washington DC's $200m streetcar taught us about public transport http://www.citymetric.com/transport/7-things-washington-dcs-200m-streetcar-taught-us-about-public-transport-1962 Come on. That short streetcar line is intended to be part of a very large network of 30+ miles. Their first segment didn't get built in their downtown because the subway is already there. If the system is built-out and they can stop running buses, they will have operational savings.
Create an account or sign in to comment