May 3, 20169 yr Lots of good discussion at this morning's Cincinnati Business Courier Power Breakfast. Follow Chris Wetterich on Twitter for the minute-by-minute updates. Basically, Dan McCarthy of Carter (developer of The Banks) was talking very positively about the streetcar. Tenants are saying that the streetcar "brings Findlay Market to my front door." McCarthy also said "don't kid yourself" that Phase 1 will be the only phase, insisting that it needs to go up the hill to UC. Another great comment he made was, "the days of showing people a cornfield and saying, 'this is the future of your business' are over." In other words -- sprawl is out, urban development is in. For retail: They passed on Starbucks. Hmm.
May 3, 20169 yr Also, I haven't seen anyone mention here yet, our fifth and final streetcar will arrive tomorrow!
May 3, 20169 yr Just saw the last streetcar heading south on I-71 at I-76, couldn't get a photo though. That puts its arrival in Cincy around... 7:00 or so? “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
May 3, 20169 yr Lots of good discussion at this morning's Cincinnati Business Courier Power Breakfast. Follow Chris Wetterich on Twitter for the minute-by-minute updates. Basically, Dan McCarthy of Carter (developer of The Banks) was talking very positively about the streetcar. Tenants are saying that the streetcar "brings Findlay Market to my front door." McCarthy also said "don't kid yourself" that Phase 1 will be the only phase, insisting that it needs to go up the hill to UC. Another great comment he made was, "the days of showing people a cornfield and saying, 'this is the future of your business' are over." In other words -- sprawl is out, urban development is in. For retail: They passed on Starbucks. Hmm. The Banks passed on Starbucks, but said yes to....every other place down there?
May 4, 20169 yr Can somebody who has been following the City-Duke lawsuit explain the implications of this? http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/04/ohio-supreme-court-makes-ruling-on-duke.html
May 4, 20169 yr ^I get that... but my question is more broadly about the implications of how public infrastructure projects are handled in the future. Wasn't the issue here that the City argued that many of the utilities were at/near their end of life, so Duke needed to spend the money to replace them anyway? I haven't followed this case super closely, so I could be way off base on the particulars. I'm mostly interested to understand what this means for future projects. I want to see the the City and Duke find a way to work together, so my main interest is in understanding how/if they can cooperate better (for example: burying utilities during streetscape projects without City being responsible for 100% of utility costs).
May 4, 20169 yr ^I get that... but my question is more broadly about the implications of how public infrastructure projects are handled in the future. Wasn't the issue here that the City argued that many of the utilities were at/near their end of life, so Duke needed to spend the money to replace them anyway? I haven't followed this case super closely, so I could be way off base on the particulars. I'm mostly interested to understand what this means for future projects. I want to see the the City and Duke find a way to work together, so my main interest is in understanding how/if they can cooperate better (for example: burying utilities during streetscape projects without City being responsible for 100% of utility costs). I suspect that all cities in Ohio are pretty much screwed if this decision stands
May 4, 20169 yr As I understand it, the underlying issue is that Ohio law regulates streetcars as a "utility" rather than as a transportation system. This dates back to the era when private companies built and ran the streetcar systems. So, much like Time Warner Cable couldn't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense, the Cincinnati Streetcar also can't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense. Meanwhile, road projects are regulated differently, so if ODOT needs Duke to move an entire power substation to make room for the new Brent Spence Bridge (which actually happened), Duke has to pay the cost of doing so.
May 4, 20169 yr As I understand it, the underlying issue is that Ohio law regulates streetcars as a "utility" rather than as a transportation system. This dates back to the era when private companies built and ran the streetcar systems. So, much like Time Warner Cable couldn't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense, the Cincinnati Streetcar also can't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense. Meanwhile, road projects are regulated differently, so if ODOT needs Duke to move an entire power substation to make room for the new Brent Spence Bridge (which actually happened), Duke has to pay the cost of doing so. On account of the prior ruling, I bet Duke and other utilities will try to widen the instances where they don't have to move utilities for other municipal projects
May 4, 20169 yr You either pay through your utility bill or through your property taxes for utility relocation for streetcars. You might pay somewhat more or somewhat less depending on your specific home ownership and utility bill situation, but either way everyone will pay something either way. Unfortunately Duke has interfered with Ohio's affairs in more than one realm -- they were apparently instrumental in getting Kasich to change the solar panel laws that mean you can't sell excess power back to Duke. Instead, excess power causes your meter to run backward and Duke gets to sell the power your house generates for much more than the savings you're getting by having your meters run backward. It's a joke, and emblematic of how there are seemingly zero advantages whatsoever to having for-profit electric and gas utilities. The south has the non-profit TVA and they're doing just fine.
May 4, 20169 yr As I understand it, the underlying issue is that Ohio law regulates streetcars as a "utility" rather than as a transportation system. This dates back to the era when private companies built and ran the streetcar systems. So, much like Time Warner Cable couldn't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense, the Cincinnati Streetcar also can't force Duke Energy to move their power lines at Duke's expense. Meanwhile, road projects are regulated differently, so if ODOT needs Duke to move an entire power substation to make room for the new Brent Spence Bridge (which actually happened), Duke has to pay the cost of doing so. Actually, for road projects "it depends", sometimes the utility can be reimbursed for moving their facilities for road projects, and other times they need to foot the bill themselves. It all rests on how (and when) the utility resides in the road right of way. If they are there in the R/W after the road is built, or by permit then they are under the expectation that they will need to move for any road improvement or maintenance activities at their own cost. If they have to move out of the way for a new road relocation and/or from brand new R/W then ODOT pays for the relocation. Or the utility predates the road dedication or improvement from way back in the day, then ODOT pays for relocations also (even if the utility line has been upgraded and expanded roughly in the same location). I am sure there are more complexities to this issue I am glossing over, for road projects.
May 4, 20169 yr For the MLK widening project that's about to begin, ODOT will pay for the city-owned Water Works utility relocation. All of the other utilities (Duke, TWC, Cincinnati Bell) will pay for their own utility relocation.
May 4, 20169 yr So Duke doesnt pay anything? Not even a depreciated amount? The taxpayers simply hand over brand new utility infrastructure to a for-profit entity??? This makes no sense that they don't have some cost burden for life of the utility that has already been "used" by Duke.
May 4, 20169 yr Back to good news... New OTR theater beats out competition for event But the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company already has a big booking for its new home coming to 12th and Elm streets: The 2018 Shakespeare Theatre Association Conference. [...] The conference committee cited the company's new Over-the-Rhine facility, as well as the city's art scene, urban renaissance, walkability and streetcar development as the reasons why the Queen City topped that list.
May 5, 20169 yr Streetcar #1177 has completed the required 500 km of testing and is ready for revenue service. Four more to go...
May 5, 20169 yr Streetcar #1177 has completed the required 500 km of testing and is ready for revenue service. Four more to go... This might be a dumb question, but why does the burn in period need to be so long? 500km just seems like a lot (to this uneducated observer).
May 5, 20169 yr It's a federal approval process. I think that should more than cover the explanation as to why this level of overkill is deemed "necessary."
May 5, 20169 yr Author Streetcar #1177 has completed the required 500 km of testing and is ready for revenue service. Four more to go... This might be a dumb question, but why does the burn in period need to be so long? 500km just seems like a lot (to this uneducated observer). If you ran the car in simulated normal service, you'll get the burn in done in a week or less
May 5, 20169 yr jmicha[/member] are you saying that the federal government requires 500km of track testing for every new streetcar vehicle in the US? Is that regardless of the manufacturer and regardless of the city? Seems like a weird rule. To be clear, I'm not opposed to safety standards or regulation... just not clear on what the actual requirement is.
May 5, 20169 yr Unfortunately Duke has interfered with Ohio's affairs in more than one realm -- they were apparently instrumental in getting Kasich to change the solar panel laws that mean you can't sell excess power back to Duke. Instead, excess power causes your meter to run backward and Duke gets to sell the power your house generates for much more than the savings you're getting by having your meters run backward. It's a joke, and emblematic of how there are seemingly zero advantages whatsoever to having for-profit electric and gas utilities. The south has the non-profit TVA and they're doing just fine. And public utlilites don't charge their customers $31 a month for merely existing. Granted, this was 1999, but one month my gas bill from the Lancaster Municipal gas company was $7. Lancaster is the only place I've had public natural gas service. I almost just typed "public gas" for that...
May 5, 20169 yr As far as I know, yes. Which is part of why several opened late since it can take awhile to hit that mark with every train if you encounter problems with the trains.
May 5, 20169 yr For the MLK widening project that's about to begin, ODOT will pay for the city-owned Water Works utility relocation. All of the other utilities (Duke, TWC, Cincinnati Bell) will pay for their own utility relocation. ODOT must pay for relocation of any publicly-owned facilities, typically these are limited to water and sanitary sewers -- but in the case of Hamilton and Columbus, for example, publicly owned power as well.
May 5, 20169 yr And only certain parts of Columbus have public electric service, so a project could easily snake in and out of AEP and Columbus city power.
May 5, 20169 yr Unfortunately Duke has interfered with Ohio's affairs in more than one realm -- they were apparently instrumental in getting Kasich to change the solar panel laws that mean you can't sell excess power back to Duke. Instead, excess power causes your meter to run backward and Duke gets to sell the power your house generates for much more than the savings you're getting by having your meters run backward. It's a joke, and emblematic of how there are seemingly zero advantages whatsoever to having for-profit electric and gas utilities. The south has the non-profit TVA and they're doing just fine. And public utlilites don't charge their customers $31 a month for merely existing. Granted, this was 1999, but one month my gas bill from the Lancaster Municipal gas company was $7. Lancaster is the only place I've had public natural gas service. It's also illegal to live off the grid in a house in many areas with for-profit utility companies like Duke. So if you want to live exclusively off of solar panels and a wood-burning stove, they're going to fine you if they find out.
May 5, 20169 yr jmicha[/member] are you saying that the federal government requires 500km of track testing for every new streetcar vehicle in the US? Is that regardless of the manufacturer and regardless of the city? Seems like a weird rule. To be clear, I'm not opposed to safety standards or regulation... just not clear on what the actual requirement is. I don't think it's purely federal requirements. I think it's also part of the contract between CAF and the city -- the streetcar will be tested for 500 km to ensure there are no major issues before the ownership transfers from CAF to the city. Or something like that.
May 6, 20169 yr Apparently, according to the business courier the banks is voicing the desire to get the streetcar uptown.
May 6, 20169 yr jmicha[/member] are you saying that the federal government requires 500km of track testing for every new streetcar vehicle in the US? Is that regardless of the manufacturer and regardless of the city? Seems like a weird rule. To be clear, I'm not opposed to safety standards or regulation... just not clear on what the actual requirement is. I don't think it's purely federal requirements. I think it's also part of the contract between CAF and the city -- the streetcar will be tested for 500 km to ensure there are no major issues before the ownership transfers from CAF to the city. Or something like that. This makes sense. I can imagine the contract saying that any defects found within first 500km are covered by CAF, but wouldn't cover any damage from passengers... so the City has an incentive to test the vehicles thoroughly before letting passengers ride.
May 6, 20169 yr Cincinnati streetcar reaches major milestone May 6, 2016, 6:46am EDT One of Cincinnati’s streetcars is a step closer to being ready for passengers, Local12 reports. The first new streetcar, dubbed Streetcar 1177, has completed its “burn-in period” required to ensure it’s running properly. That means the vehicle has logged more than 311 miles of required service on Cincinnati’s streets. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/05/06/cincinnati-streetcar-reaches-major-milestone.html
May 6, 20169 yr I can picture some WLWer getting cranky if they were told the break-in period was measured in kilometers.
May 6, 20169 yr Down at Rhinehaus the other night, a bunch of us from Die Innenstadt (an FC Cincinnati supporters group) got together to watch the away games as is tradition now. I got down there early and snagged some video of the streetcar running by. I love the way the vehicles fit into the environment. Can't wait till it's just normal to have them running in the background. Here's the video: People in local bars, drinking local beer, supporting soccer, and soon to be using rail transit. 700 WLW hosts must be dying inside.
May 6, 20169 yr People in local bars, drinking local beer, supporting soccer, and soon to be using rail transit. 700 WLW hosts must be dying inside. And measuring distances in kilometers instead of miles!
May 7, 20169 yr Down at Rhinehaus the other night, a bunch of us from Die Innenstadt (an FC Cincinnati supporters group) got together to watch the away games as is tradition now. I got down there early and snagged some video of the streetcar running by. I love the way the vehicles fit into the environment. Can't wait till it's just normal to have them running in the background. Here's the video: People in local bars, drinking local beer, supporting soccer, and soon to be using rail transit. 700 WLW hosts must be dying inside. Are the hosts on WLW still fear-mongering and telling people that OTR is scary, no one goes downtown, etc.? I wouldn't be surprised if they were and many of their listeners actually believed them. It's funny how out of touch with reality they are.
May 7, 20169 yr Considering I still get a lot of, "are you scared living down there?!" from older people, it wouldn't surprise me. I generally scoff at that statement to show how stupid it is.
May 7, 20169 yr Most of the time when I tune into WLW they are talking about the Reds. At least now that the season is in.
May 7, 20169 yr Today I watched a streetcar making a lot of noise making the turn from Walnut bridge over FWW to The Banks stop. That curve appears to travel uphill pretty significantly, somewhere between 6 inches and a foot, and is the cause of a lot of ugly noise in the wheels and in the articulated joints. The streetcars don't appear to make the same sorts of noises while drifting downhill on the curve onto Main. Also, I don't think that in 700+ pages of conversation anyone has brought this up, but it appears to me that use of this track by longer light rail trains would be limited by the length of the FWW overpasses, which appear to be between 150 and 160 feet long. This is the shortest block on the entire route. Use of a longer train would require a light signal sequence permitting any train leaving The Banks stop to get all the way to 4th St. without sometimes stopping at 3rd., and I don't think that's realistic given the bad behavior of drivers in that area during big events.
May 9, 20169 yr Streetcar #1177 has completed the required 500 km of testing and is ready for revenue service. Four more to go... This might be a dumb question, but why does the burn in period need to be so long? 500km just seems like a lot (to this uneducated observer). Also why is it 500 km... and not 300 miles? This is 'Murricah..
May 10, 20169 yr FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE May 10, 2016 IT’S ALL ABOUT SAFETY -- DON’T ENTER STREETCARS IN TESTING CINCINNATI – The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority and Transdev, SORTA’s contractor for operations and maintenance of the Cincinnati Streetcar, are reviewing safety procedures with all streetcar staff today after a person boarded a streetcar in Over the Rhine on Sunday and shot cellphone video inside the vehicle. SORTA is investigating the incident, in which the streetcar was briefly left unattended while the operator took a restroom break. The streetcar was parked next to the streetcar maintenance facility at the time. All doors on the streetcar have “Do Not Enter” signs on all doors. No one was injured and the streetcar was not harmed. The safety procedure for leaving a streetcar unattended is to secure the streetcar against movement and remove the key. The streetcars are not currently in operation but are being tested. “This incident has given us the opportunity to impress on our team the importance of following all safety procedures,” said Paul Grether, Director of Rail Services for SORTA. “All Transdev personnel are being retrained on proper safety protocols related to leaving the streetcar unattended, and we are confident that this will not happen again.” About The Cincinnati Streetcar: Scheduled to open in September 2016, the Cincinnati Streetcar is intended to expand transportation options, stimulate development, and enhance livability by connecting downtown, the riverfront and Over the Rhine. The Cincinnati Streetcar is owned and funded by the City of Cincinnati, managed by the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority, and operated by Transdev. See attached for formatted news release and door decal image. Contact Sallie Hilvers at 632-7681 with questions. Brandy L. Jones, APR External Affairs Manager Cincinnati Metro Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority 602 Main St. Ste. 1100, Cincinnati, OH 45202 Office: 513-632-7527 Mobile: 513-254-2587 Email: [email protected] Website: www.go-metro.com Social Media: Facebook l Twitter l YouTube
May 10, 20169 yr Here is the video they're referencing... It's on WLW. Yay. http://www.700wlw.com/onair/scott-sloan-226/want-to-take-the-cincinnati-streetcar-14696170/
May 10, 20169 yr Here is the video they're referencing... It's on WLW. Yay. http://www.700wlw.com/onair/scott-sloan-226/want-to-take-the-cincinnati-streetcar-14696170/ Yeah, Chris Smitherman is appearing on 700 WLW as a guest as we speak.
May 10, 20169 yr Apparently Cincinnati Zoo's Thane Maynard is also calling for the Streetcar to come Uptown.
May 10, 20169 yr taestell[/member] - has Maynard said something publicly? Or are you just hearing that he's talking privately about it?
May 10, 20169 yr There was some sort of lunch today where both Thayne Maynard and Santa Ono spoke. It may have been an Uptown Consortium event but I'm not sure. Maynard teased Ono about the streetcar and basically said to bring it to the Zoo as well as UC.
May 10, 20169 yr The article headline should be re-titled, "Lost suburbanite trespasses on streetcar." Accidental tourism at its finest! “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
May 10, 20169 yr http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/10/streetcar-update-illegal-ride-new-details-opening/84180900/ This report claims that the streetcar was left "running". Electric vehicles don't idle like anything with an engine, be it a bus or a weed whacker.
May 10, 20169 yr Streetcar #1177 has completed the required 500 km of testing and is ready for revenue service. Four more to go... This might be a dumb question, but why does the burn in period need to be so long? 500km just seems like a lot (to this uneducated observer). To be fair, 500 km is equal to 86 loops of our system. It's not a little, but I don't know that it's a massive amount. Also, re: the video being posted, I'm just happy she got on and said "huh, it's pretty nice!".
May 11, 20169 yr From The Enquirer's comments: Jon V Diebold · Works at Self-Employed If a streetcar were stolen, it seems we would have a fairly good idea of where to find it, eh? And, shutting down the over-head power would make that even easier. Furthermore, should some scofflaw abscond with one of the steel beasts, black market opportunities would be slim, to turn it into cash.
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