July 7, 20168 yr For those of us who have been keeping up the streetcar project for 8+ years, we have seen some pretty ridiculous anti-streetcar arguments from the opponents. I'd like to take a moment to reflect on one of the most ridiculous anti-streetcar arguments from the history of this project. Michael Earl Patton, an engineer who sometimes wrote for the now-defunct Cincinnati Beacon, insisted that it would be impossible to build the streetcar without acquiring new ROW along the route. COAST even picked up this argument and insisted that the streetcar would result in the demolition of historic buildings along the route. (We all rolled our eyes while they pretended to actually care about OTR for 30 seconds.) Anyway, here are some of the drawings he made (on graph paper, so you know it's legit!) to "prove" it wouldn't work: The first drawing appears to be based on the idea that the streetcar would traveling in the parking lane on 12th Street instead of the regular traffic lane where the track was actually built. I'm not sure if this was an error on Patton's part, or if planners were originally considering using the parking lane on 12th but later changed the plans. Either way, this was a non-issue. A very small portion of the sidewalk was pushed back so that the streetcar could make this turn. No additional ROW needed to be acquired and the world did not come to an end. The turn from Elm to McMicken would have been the trickiest curve of the route. The best option probably would have been to have the streetcar make a right turn from the left lane, similar to what it does at the intersection of Central Parkway and Walnut. Of course, the route was shortened by one block at the north end, and now makes a simple 90 degree turn at Henry Street instead of continuing to McMicken.
July 13, 20168 yr Sounds like the Chamber has made a decision -- the streetcar will be closed during Oktoberfest this year.
July 13, 20168 yr Sounds like the Chamber has made a decision -- the streetcar will be closed during Oktoberfest this year. Did Cranley tell Harry Black to tell his staff to cut their staff a check as a reward for shutting it down?
July 13, 20168 yr Sounds like the Chamber has made a decision -- the streetcar will be closed during Oktoberfest this year. Where are you getting this info?
July 13, 20168 yr ^ John Schneider[/member] is posing updates from today's streetcar community meeting on Twitter. Apparently the opening ceremony will start at 10:30 am on 9/9.
July 13, 20168 yr Author Here's the box score of the last Reds game you could have taken a Cincinnati streetcar to- http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN195104250.shtml next opportunity is September 12th versus the Brewers
July 14, 20168 yr Late night testing of the streetcar tonight. It just passed by our home a moment ago. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
July 14, 20168 yr Somebody trying to get $1.5 million for 2 apartments over a storefront at 1439 Elm St.: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1494557/1439-Elm-St-City-OH-45202
July 14, 20168 yr That property was valued at 69,570 in 2014. Good look trying to sell it for $1.5 million and have to do renovations. The owner has had the property since the 70's. That's way over priced for this market. IF the streetcar can make properties sale for 1.5 million more than it's worth. You might as well rename the street Rodeo drive(LA).
July 14, 20168 yr There are a handful of building owners in OTR who are delusional and think their buildings are worth 10x more than they actually are. Many of them appear to be landlords that don't actually know much about the neighborhood's current real estate market, so they just say, "OTR is popular these days, I shall list my building for... 100 billion dollars."
July 14, 20168 yr There are a handful of building owners in OTR who are delusional and think their buildings are worth 10x more than they actually are. Many of them appear to be landlords that don't actually know much about the neighborhood's current real estate market, so they just say, "OTR is popular these days, I shall list my building for... 100 billion dollars." Not only that, they have no concept of construction/renovation costs.
July 14, 20168 yr There are a handful of building owners in OTR who are delusional and think their buildings are worth 10x more than they actually are. Many of them appear to be landlords that don't actually know much about the neighborhood's current real estate market, so they just say, "OTR is popular these days, I shall list my building for... 100 billion dollars." There are a lot of knucklehead property owners out there who improperly maintain and illegally rent their properties who nevertheless present themselves as the hubs and saviors of an area and spread preposterous neighborhood rumors. When they make money in spite of themselves it emboldens their belief that they alone possess exceptional insight into the business.
July 18, 20168 yr UC's business school teams up with streetcar The streetcar's Queen City ties keep strengthening as a new advertising plan with the University of Cincinnati was announced Tuesday. Advertising Vehicles — which is contracted with the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority to sell the naming rights and advertising on the Cincinnati Streetcar — announced a advertising contract with the UC’s Carl H. Lindner College of Business via a Monday news release. The contract includes large exterior ads on three streetcars and interior ads on all five vehicles, the release stated. Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
July 18, 20168 yr A recent two-year commitment on all five streetcars by the Over-the-Rhine brewer Rhinegeist put ad sale totals for the streetcar above $300,000, according to a previous news release. So even before the UC advertising was announced the advertising revenue already surpassed the $140,000 budget. At $300,000 sold, net ad revenue is $186,000. Still waiting for the naming rights announcement...
July 18, 20168 yr A recent two-year commitment on all five streetcars by the Over-the-Rhine brewer Rhinegeist put ad sale totals for the streetcar above $300,000, according to a previous news release. So even before the UC advertising was announced the advertising revenue already surpassed the $140,000 budget. At $300,000 sold, net ad revenue is $186,000. Still waiting for the naming rights announcement... Naming rights would be cool, but I'd love a company to step up and sponsor free rides for the first week or first month of service.
July 19, 20168 yr There are a handful of building owners in OTR who are delusional and think their buildings are worth 10x more than they actually are. Many of them appear to be landlords that don't actually know much about the neighborhood's current real estate market, so they just say, "OTR is popular these days, I shall list my building for... 100 billion dollars." must be hooked up with shady agents who list them...
July 19, 20168 yr Surprising news coming tomorrow! Hmm... John London: "Location of major Oktoberfest announcement -- deck of Blind Pig at 24 west 3rd -- suggests possible shift of festival from 5th street. 11am" "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
July 19, 20168 yr Oktoberfest will be held on 2nd and 3rd Streets this year. So far, the announcement hasn't mentioned the streetcar, spinning it as "now the party is on two streets."
July 19, 20168 yr ^smart not to mention the streetcar. People will be irrationally upset it is moving because tradition.
July 19, 20168 yr 2nd and 3rd Streets?? So everyone can enjoy all the highway noise from FWW? Sounds dumb to me.
July 19, 20168 yr Is it only on West 2nd and 3rd? Otherwise won't it have the same issue? I was expecting Freedom Way as the announcement to avoid all the conflicts. I am sure Fountain Square will still hold some events as well, to keep 3CDC happy.
July 19, 20168 yr We will need to wait until the street closure plan is released, but I view this as a good move for a couple of reasons: - Obviously, the streetcar and Metro buses will now be able to run normally during the festival. - Downtown businesses will not be negatively impacted by the closure of Fifth Street. - ODOT is about to close the ramp from I-71 South to Third Street for construction for a full year. So that traffic will already be detoured to Eighth Street. - Hopefully The Banks garages can still be accessed from Elm Street and Mehring Way. - New location will encourage people to check out The Banks and Smale Park who may not have seen them before - OTR Brewery District and OTR Chamber should encourage people to ride the streetcar between The Banks and the various breweries in OTR - Makes it very easy for visitors to park in the various garages in downtown and OTR and ride the streetcar to the festival.
July 19, 20168 yr If they ever capped FWW this would would a perfect location for Taste and Octoberfest
July 19, 20168 yr Author We will need to wait until the street closure plan is released, but I view this as a good move for a couple of reasons: - Obviously, the streetcar and Metro buses will now be able to run normally during the festival. - Downtown businesses will not be negatively impacted by the closure of Fifth Street. - ODOT is about to close the ramp from I-71 South to Third Street for construction for a full year. So that traffic will already be detoured to Eighth Street. - Hopefully The Banks garages can still be accessed from Elm Street and Mehring Way. - New location will encourage people to check out The Banks and Smale Park who may not have seen them before - OTR Brewery District and OTR Chamber should encourage people to ride the streetcar between The Banks and the various breweries in OTR - Makes it very easy for visitors to park in the various garages in downtown and OTR and ride the streetcar to the festival. There are also four Reds games that weekend
July 19, 20168 yr 2nd and 3rd Streets?? So everyone can enjoy all the highway noise from FWW? Sounds dumb to me. And full sunlight. If it's really hot, it's going to be painful. Also, there was a particular way the sound of the music bounced off the buildings, and now that's going to be washed out by the highway noise. Although I think a lot of the noise heard in that area is actually traffic on 2nd and 3rd.
July 19, 20168 yr We will need to wait until the street closure plan is released, but I view this as a good move for a couple of reasons: - Obviously, the streetcar and Metro buses will now be able to run normally during the festival. - Downtown businesses will not be negatively impacted by the closure of Fifth Street. - ODOT is about to close the ramp from I-71 South to Third Street for construction for a full year. So that traffic will already be detoured to Eighth Street. - Hopefully The Banks garages can still be accessed from Elm Street and Mehring Way. - New location will encourage people to check out The Banks and Smale Park who may not have seen them before - OTR Brewery District and OTR Chamber should encourage people to ride the streetcar between The Banks and the various breweries in OTR - Makes it very easy for visitors to park in the various garages in downtown and OTR and ride the streetcar to the festival. But won't the streetcar still have to go through the festival? Idk, I guess this is a step in the right direction of eventually getting Oktoberfest down at the riverfront park, but 2nd and 3rd streets are some of the worst in the CBD in terms of ambiance and pedestrian friendliness. They are so wide, which will probably be good for accommodating the large crowds, but the lack of tall buildings and trees makes for a very bright, hot environment. Not to mention that there will be a giant loud trench in the middle of it all. I'd rather see Octoberfest move to Central Parkway than 2nd and 3rd streets. But I still don't really understand the need to move it off 5th street at all, as I think the current set up works pretty well. You have Fountain Square on 5th, and all of the tall buildings lining 5th create a really cool atmosphere for an urban festival, imo. The little plazas, like the one outside of the First Financial building are also great for providing little shady areas to rest or get away from the crowds. As far as businesses that are on 5th street, I have to ask...what businesses? Other than Currito and the liquor store at Walnut and 5th, there aren't that many businesses on 5th that would be open on the weekend anyways. Graeters and the other businesses directly on the square seem to do great during Taste and Oktoberfest. Maybe Tiffany and Macys take a hit that weekend? Regardless, businesses on 2nd and 3rd would presumably 'suffer' as much as those on 5th supposedly do with this new alignment, right?
July 19, 20168 yr 2nd and 3rd Streets?? So everyone can enjoy all the highway noise from FWW? Sounds dumb to me. With all of the people, tents, and music going on, I doubt it will even be noticeable. We'll see, though. Also, Central Parkway can't really happen now (unless it's the N/S part) because the streetcar interferes at Main, Walnut, and Race, and it travels on Central Parkway for 2 blocks. That would really get in the way. Hopefully it moves to the river next year.
July 19, 20168 yr And full sunlight. If it's really hot, it's going to be painful. Also, there was a particular way the sound of the music bounced off the buildings, and now that's going to be washed out by the highway noise. Although I think a lot of the noise heard in that area is actually traffic on 2nd and 3rd. The direct sunlight is the only legitimate downside to the new location that I have heard so far.
July 19, 20168 yr When this issue first came up I remember emailing ideas to Jill Meyer and she responded quickly and was very interested and friendly. I am extremely happy that they worked something out and were able to accommodate changes at all. Any complaints we have on this forum I'm sure pale in comparison to the complaints we would have had if they decided to shut the streetcar down for one of the busiest weekends in downtown each year.
July 19, 20168 yr We will need to wait until the street closure plan is released, but I view this as a good move for a couple of reasons: - ODOT is about to close the ramp from I-71 South to Third Street for construction for a full year. So that traffic will already be detoured to Eighth Street. - Hopefully The Banks garages can still be accessed from Elm Street and Mehring Way. I would presume that Elm Street will remain open at 2nd Street for traffic exiting both 75S & 71/75N. This would allow access to both the CBD and the riverfront garages/lots. From purely a traffic perspective, this will be quite the challenge for event set-up on Friday. I'm also curious how the Riverfront Transit Center will be used. Other than for escaping the sunlight... "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
July 19, 20168 yr And full sunlight. If it's really hot, it's going to be painful. Also, there was a particular way the sound of the music bounced off the buildings, and now that's going to be washed out by the highway noise. Although I think a lot of the noise heard in that area is actually traffic on 2nd and 3rd. The direct sunlight is the only legitimate downside to the new location that I have heard so far. Can someone explain how the streetcar will be able to operate at this location, given that it will still presumably need to pass through to reach the southern terminus of the line/turn around location? Will Oktoberfest be moved to the west and end at Walnut Street? With 4 Reds games scheduled for that weekend, it's going to be really busy down on 3rd, 2nd, and the riverfront. What's the benefit of having Oktoberfest there, beyond the very real benefit of keeping the bus system going with minimal interruption.
July 19, 20168 yr The new location is between Elm and Walnut (likely not including those streets). The streetcar travels from Walnut to Main on 2nd, so it would not be interrupted.
July 19, 20168 yr Oktoberfest and Taste have gotten too big for 5th St. The festivals are way too crowded and it's a struggle to even move down the street. I hope Taste follows Oktoberfest and they never go back to 5th. For those of you that want the festivals on the riverfront where exactly do you want them? On Mehring Way? Actually in the park? Just curious how it would be set up in that area.
July 19, 20168 yr And full sunlight. If it's really hot, it's going to be painful. Also, there was a particular way the sound of the music bounced off the buildings, and now that's going to be washed out by the highway noise. Although I think a lot of the noise heard in that area is actually traffic on 2nd and 3rd. The direct sunlight is the only legitimate downside to the new location that I have heard so far. Maybe we install some type of tent/covering that the original Oktoberfest uses:
July 19, 20168 yr I like this idea ... it's getting way too freakin crowded for 5th St. This move is way overdue. - Do you really think FWW traffic would drown out bands/music, etc.? - This will be great advertising for drivers passing through Cincy on I71/75.
July 19, 20168 yr Also, this may revive the idea in the heads of voters that FWW needs to be capped. I don't care what goes on top as long as it's not an ugly visible highway canyon.
July 19, 20168 yr I was originally for moving it to the park, but idk ... over 600,000 people wouldn't be good for the grass, plants, trees.
July 19, 20168 yr I don't think any Reds games will be impacting this very much. Attendance has been dismal, and is likely to be even worse in those waning days of the season, and the team solidly entrenched in last place.
July 19, 20168 yr These festivals are no bigger now than they were in the 80s when I was a kid. It was shoulder-to-shoulder people on 5th for 5 blocks back in 1985~ just like it is now. The Taste was on Central Parkway for many years which had more room, but then it sort-of felt like nobody was there. I went to Taste of Chicago about fifteen years ago in Grant Park on a 95 degree day. That park has mature trees but everybody got burnt up anyway and frankly the whole thing was kind of boring. If people want a big, boring family-oriented festival, then put it in a big city park.
July 19, 20168 yr Oktoberfest and Taste have gotten too big for 5th St. The festivals are way too crowded and it's a struggle to even move down the street. I hope Taste follows Oktoberfest and they never go back to 5th. For those of you that want the festivals on the riverfront where exactly do you want them? On Mehring Way? Actually in the park? Just curious how it would be set up in that area. I suggested to the Chamber to put it on Mehring between Elm and Main (could go all the way from Central Ave to Broadway), with festival tents and concert venues in the park, up on the Schmidlap event lawn, on Freedom way etc. But, yes, I think the best spot for the main trunk of the festival is on Mehring Way between the two stadiums. I do agree that this location, if it lasts a couple years, will definitely reinvigorate the FWW cap conversation. I'm pretty indifferent to the caps, and think money could go somewhere better, but if we want a great festival location and this spot proves successful I could see how the caps could be seen as an asset worth re-discussing.
July 19, 20168 yr Given Kansas City's huge weekend ridership (it flirts with 10,000 rides every Saturday), it doesn't seem unreasonable that we could have 10,000+ rides on the Saturday of Oktoberfest.
July 19, 20168 yr Absolutely. Oktoberfest attracts something like 600,000 visitors each year. If one percent of Oktoberfest visitors ride the streetcar, that's an extra 6,000 rides that weekend on top of normal ridership.
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