^I think streetcar haters can't handle the fact that people a lot smarter than them designed the damn thing. 

"F-ing magnets--how do they work? "

"F-ing magnets--how do they work? "

 

I get it.  The funniest youtube comment I ever read was below one of the Gathering preview videos that promised, along with helicopter rides and a cameo by Tilla Tequilla, "seminars".  The comment was simply "Seminars?  Like how magnets work?"

 

 

 

 

 

That'd be clever if they did, but Cincinnati Bell hasn't offered cell phone service since 2014 and even then I don't think they had their own chime all Verizon/AT&T

 

 

Maybe Cincinnati Bell will commission a song that appears on all of their commercials and the streetcar will buzz around all day putting it out like an ice cream truck jingle. 

 

 

I have also seen a few people commenting that they have "seen the streetcar run red lights". Again, if you see something like this, please do your best to educate the person that there are some intersections where all car traffic is stopped and the streetcar has the right of way. Some guy on Twitter yesterday was claiming that the streetcar made a left turn from the right lane while car traffic had a green light. That's completely false. It turns out, traffic engineers are pretty smart. They would never give two conflicting movements the right-of-way at the same time.

 

Feel free to use this GIF when you're educating people...

 

 

 

 

For the uninitiated among us. What do the two mean?

Horizontal means stop, vertical means go.  I saw them flashing too once, is that equivalent to "yellow"? 

Yeah, what I was trying to point out is that the streetcar has it own signal while cars (are supposed to) obey their red stop signal. The white horizontal is "stop" for transit, white vertical is "go" for transit, and flashing white vertical is equivalent to yellow for cars. Some cities do use three separate signals for transit with a white triangle in the middle. It looks like Cleveland uses the three signal version for the Health Line:

 

 

I have also seen some cities that use colored bars instead of white bars for transit. But I think that's falling out of favor since drivers might misinterpret a green bar for their "go" light. I also seem to remember one city that used the white letter "T" as their go signal but can't remember where I saw it.

Those are used for buses and an older system is used for the green/blue rapid trains on the east side, with a red horizontal line replacing the white line. It's LED, so I'm sure it was grandfathered in.

Funny story, I was with my girlfriend whom I've dated for almost 2 years now.  She is a native Cincinnatian.  We were in OTR for the first time in a while waiting to cross the street and the streetcar went by.  She asked, "what is that train?", and I said that's the streetcar!  And she said something along the lines of "OMG I thought it was just an old time trolley train, that looks awesome!". 

 

Suffice to say, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they see it the first time.  It is crazy to me a lot of people out in the near burbs, etc. still probably think it is sometime old time trolley train, and not an uber modern light rail vehicle.

 

Also on another note, always amazing how much OTR is changing so fast.  I know a lot of the people on this board live down there so it is harder to tell because you see it every day, but for someone who doesn't get down there so much (mostly because we are both in student loan repayment mode and don't eat out so much at the moment), the changes are crazy fast.

 

I lived down there from Nov. 13-Nov.14 and the changes even since then are crazy.

You know Cincinnati Bell will be touting the streetcar in their commercials ... if that's the case, that'd be sweet for people unfamiliar!

Also on another note, always amazing how much OTR is changing so fast.  I know a lot of the people on this board live down there so it is harder to tell because you see it every day, but for someone who doesn't get down there so much (mostly because we are both in student loan repayment mode and don't eat out so much at the moment), the changes are crazy fast.

 

I was gone two months in NYC before I came back to move my things out of my condo before it closes and even in that time there were noticeable changes. Buildings being constructed are much further along, a couple buildings painted, a few new stores, new murals, etc. Two months is hardly any time at all and yet there were plenty of, "oh that's new!" moments in my 36 hours I was in the city.

It really is crazy how fast it is changing.

 

Something else that is cool about OTR is you can go from Vine Street which has a bustle even at 2 pm on Saturday, then walk over to Race Street where it is very quiet, almost like you aren't in a city at all, yet people in restaurants, etc.

 

Once these big downtown projects start popping up on the surface lots I think OTR is going to expand even faster with the retail moving faster and faster up Vine Street to accomdate all the new residents downtown.

Funny story, I was with my girlfriend whom I've dated for almost 2 years now.  She is a native Cincinnatian.  We were in OTR for the first time in a while waiting to cross the street and the streetcar went by.  She asked, "what is that train?", and I said that's the streetcar!  And she said something along the lines of "OMG I thought it was just an old time trolley train, that looks awesome!". 

 

Suffice to say, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they see it the first time.  It is crazy to me a lot of people out in the near burbs, etc. still probably think it is sometime old time trolley train, and not an uber modern light rail vehicle.

 

Also on another note, always amazing how much OTR is changing so fast.  I know a lot of the people on this board live down there so it is harder to tell because you see it every day, but for someone who doesn't get down there so much (mostly because we are both in student loan repayment mode and don't eat out so much at the moment), the changes are crazy fast.

 

I lived down there from Nov. 13-Nov.14 and the changes even since then are crazy.

 

My young brother, who has lived in Northern Kentucky his entire life/schooling, picked me up from an interview downtown last week, and had no idea that the streetcar was being constructed, much less a few weeks from opening to the public. "I'd heard about it, but didn't know it was actually moving forward." The level of ignorance is stunning.

 

(By the way, got the job, moving back to the area the week of the streetcar opening! It's already in the win column for population growth!)

(^Congrats!!!)

My young brother, who has lived in Northern Kentucky his entire life/schooling, picked me up from an interview downtown last week, and had no idea that the streetcar was being constructed, much less a few weeks from opening to the public. "I'd heard about it, but didn't know it was actually moving forward." The level of ignorance is stunning.

 

In a way, it's a good thing. Most of these people missed the last 8 years of intense political debate and will get to experience it for the first time by seeing it for themselves and riding it. We just need to do a good job of promoting it once it's here.

Lest we not forget ...

 

From 2008(?)...the second or third public streetcar debate:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ Second from the bottom ... so much more hair & no grey either back then!

So whatever happened to the self-named Dean of Cincinnati, Jason Haap?

I was just talking about this debate the other day. As I recall, Jake was heckling The Dean. Good times.

I was just talking about this debate the other day. As I recall, Jake was heckling The Dean. Good times.

 

Who remembers the Dean's cape that he wore around from time-to-time?

I completely forgot about him! No where to be found, eh??? He's still rocking the old lady glasses ...

 

I think both Jason Haap and Justin Jeffre went on to write for Street Vibes. They let the Cincinnati Beacon domain expire. Some of the old articles can still be accessed on archive.org which is how I found the awesome graph paper drawings from Michael Earl Patton where he "proved" that the streetcar could not be built! Jeffre has been pretty silent about the streetcar recently, which may have something to do with the fact that his pal Nick Lachey has emerged as a major streetcar supporter.

 

I filmed the debate in Jake's pictures above and have it on DVD.

I was just talking about this debate the other day. As I recall, Jake was heckling The Dean. Good times.

 

The best Jake heckle was at the COAST press conference on the steps of City Hall, where he asked, "If it is about the streetcar, why do you have a picture of a bus on your signs?" To which Tom Luken responded, "Signs? We can't afford signs!"

https://www.youtube.com/embed/muwA5wtVu4E

Who is and where is this dude with the anti-bus tired trolley sign today? Thanks for this link as it provides my lunch entertainment.

 

Those were the fun days.  That was Jeff Cappel, who I thought for the most part operated out of his mother's basement in Blue Ash, although I could be mistaken.

Those were the fun days.  That was Jeff Cappel, who I thought for the most part operated out of his mother's basement in Blue Ash, although I could be mistaken.

 

    ^ Jeff Cappel, Sad Sack

Yeah, the second video is great. I've watched that a few times and it never gets old. I mean, what sort of shortcoming in life do you have to be a victim of to have that much aggression pent up?

He's always "gotta get something off his chest" like a nu-metal singer or untalented white rapper

Jeff Cappel was the one who sued the City of Blue Ash in 2012 over the purchase of the airport from the City of Cincinnati.  He was used, of course, by Chris Finney.  That whole incident was pretty incredible because COAST orchestrated a whisper campaign by illegally putting flyers on people's doors and harassing Blue Ash councilmembers with phone calls to their homes and places of business.  It all built up to a huge city council meeting (standing room only, at least 200 people in attendance) where Finney whipped up the crowd during the public comment section (which preceded the meeting) and then slipped out the back door as the councilmen waited for their turn and one-by-one told all assembled that they had been swindled. 

Take it easy on Jeff, guys. I've bet him before and he's been very civil to me. I'm also 99% sure he reads this thread on a daily basis. (Hi Jeff!)

More good news: JACK Casino purchased the naming rights for the Court & Main station, while the Stough Group (owners of the Hanke Exchange) purchased the rights for 12th & Main.

Will the naming rights operate similar to how they do in Portland—where the streetcar pulls up to the stop and announces "Next stop is..12th and Main. Sponsored by Jack Casino. Doors to your right."? Just want to be sure they aren't actually replacing the street names of the stop (aka Next Stop, the Jack Casino Station).

The press release calls them "JACK Casino station: Court & Main" and "Hanke Exchange station: 12th & Main."

The naming rights seem a bit too much IMO, though if we're going this route we need to start selling exit ramps and intersections. The "Great American 3rd Street Exit" has a nice ring to it, for example.

I agree, but on the other hand, I think streetcar has made way more money from advertising than expected. Maybe double the amount. The streetcar haters are really going to be running out of arguments when the project is "paying for itself" ten years from now, purely from fares, advertising revenue, and VTICA money from new development along the route.

More good news: JACK Casino purchased the naming rights for the Court & Main station, while the Stough Group (owners of the Hanke Exchange) purchased the rights for 12th & Main.

 

Remember when project opponents kvetched over how the streetcar did not serve the casino? Seems as though the casino disagrees, and is putting their money where their mouth is.

The naming rights seem a bit too much IMO, though if we're going this route we need to start selling exit ramps and intersections. The "Great American 3rd Street Exit" has a nice ring to it, for example.

 

Idk what it is about streetcar projects that attracts all the need for station sponsoring. But, like Travis said, I'm happy that it's going to be in great financial position. Just don't want it to feel gimmicky.

I was just looking at the original streetcar feasibility study and it turns out, they estimated our ridership for a bunch of different fares. They estimated that upon opening, if the fare was $1, we could expect 3,700 riders daily, and if it were free, we would get about 5,550 riders daily.  By the fifth year of operations, that would increase to 5,000 riders at a $1 fare or 7,900 riders if it were free.

 

I bring this up because a number of people have said, "the Kansas City Streetcar is only popular because it's free." Well, there is definitely a big increase in ridership if you make it free (50-60% more than if it's $1), but that's not the only factor.

 

Jake, it's pretty funny that the color you used for the background of these photos (which you took from the color of the wall) ended up being almost the same color as the streetcars.

Updpated:

The naming rights seem a bit too much IMO, though if we're going this route we need to start selling exit ramps and intersections. The "Great American 3rd Street Exit" has a nice ring to it, for example.

 

Idk what it is about streetcar projects that attracts all the need for station sponsoring. But, like Travis said, I'm happy that it's going to be in great financial position. Just don't want it to feel gimmicky.

 

I think it all goes back to that for some reason, people feel the need for justifying public transit as a money maker rather than a public service. How many times has someone questioned the cost and revnue while never giving a new freeway expansion a second thought? Like the 3C for example, people clamored that it "would never make any money," but you never hear a peep about the current I-75 construction.

 

To note though, State Farm does sponsor highway raodside assistance and has their corporate logo on standard government highways signs in Ohio.

Does anyone know if there are any pub crawls on that Friday?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does anyone know if there are any pub crawls on that Friday?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Derek is hosting a party that evening at Pi Pizzeria. Pretty sure he said he was buying drinks and food for everyone.

Does anyone know if there are any pub crawls on that Friday?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Derek is hosting a party that evening at Pi Pizzeria. Pretty sure he said he was buying drinks and food for everyone.

 

Awesome! Thanks Derek Bauman[/member]!

Derek Bauman[/member] is also covering everyone's Uber. Oh wait, now that we have transportation options we don't need Uber to move around TBX/CBD/OTR!

This Clifton route is a good route. It is a much better route than the proposed OASIS commuter line. It's a better route than the Kingsport Corridor, and a dozen other routes proposed by paid professionals. It has a better chance of getting built than the Over-the-Rhine and Downtown loop. I would use it. I know lots of folks would. Why so much hatred?

 

Throwback!

 

Oh, and, 8th and State if you're still with us, I hope you're not a betting man. Looks like the chances weren't as good as you thought. 30 days!

This Clifton route is a good route. It is a much better route than the proposed OASIS commuter line. It's a better route than the Kingsport Corridor, and a dozen other routes proposed by paid professionals. It has a better chance of getting built than the Over-the-Rhine and Downtown loop. I would use it. I know lots of folks would. Why so much hatred?

 

Throwback!

 

Oh, and, 8th and State if you're still with us, I hope you're not a betting man. Looks like the chances weren't as good as you thought. 30 days!

 

Yes, I'm still here. I just saw this post today.

 

There are a few folks on this board that entertain themselves by drawing lines on maps. I admit that I am one of them. I mentioned a possible route from Clifton and Ludlow along Clifton to Hughes Corner. I imagined a straight alignment in an exclusive right of way along the west side of Clifton Avenue, with a single rail vehicle moving back and fourth. The existing parking lane would either be eliminated or relocated about 12' east.

 

I have often taken the 17 along this route. It is typically crowded, and stops at every bus stop. I think it is a good candidate for rail, so I mentioned it on this board. I was immediately criticized by several formers who were opposed. Why so?

 

No, it didn't get built, because no one promoted it, but I still say that it would have been an easier route to construct, and a good starter route, with a very strong ridership. My question is, why are there so many haters on this board?

Throwback

 

My prediction for about a year now has been testing begins very late 2014, line opens February/March 2015.

 

I saw someone else say 2015 a while back and get laughed at. I'm betting "full on" construction starts LATE this year or early next year.

 

The city hasn't even put out bids yet for contractors.

I don't have time to search through 800+ pages of this thread. Anyone who has the time is welcome.

 

I made a prediction that the streetcar would not open for revenue service before 1-1-2017. I think this was around 2012 that I posted this, but I can't remember for sure. I based my prediction on a 10-year schedule, starting with the 2007 feasibility schedule.

 

Anyway, I was wrong, but not by much; I only missed by 4 months. This was YEARS ago, when others on this board were calling for 2015, 2014, 2013, etc.

 

I also called the whole Duke Utility conflict before it happened. This issue added at least a year to the schedule. Duke won the lawsuit and there was hardly a peep about it on this board. I wasn't rooting for or against the streetcar; I just thought that the city made a mistake when the city assumed that Duke was going to pay to have the utilities moved. In Ohio, streetcars are UTILITIES and have essentially the same legal status as other utilities. The city can force Duke to move it's pipelines and wires for a road widening, but not for a streetcar project, because that's the law. You heard it here first, and some of you disagreed with me.

 

I've also said on this board that I was never opposed to the streetcar, just skeptical of it. My very first impression of the 2007 feasibility study was that while this project would be politically challenging, this was a project that actually had a chance of being constructed, unlike Metro Moves, the Kingsport Corridor, the OASIS line, light rail to Dayton, and other such ideas that have been proposed from time to time. I feel like I offered a realistic viewpoint on certain issues, and I also learned a lot.

 

 

 

 

Refresh my memory- What was the Kingsport Corridor again?