The Kingsport Corridor was a proposal from the 1990's to build Light Rail from the Greater Cincinnati airport (CVG) to Kings Island amusement park. It would have travelled on streets downtown, in an alignment not much different than part of the current streetcar loop.

Saw the streetcar running for my first time today (I don't live in Cincinnati).  I was at Rhinegeist and Findlay Market.  Seemed like there was a constant battle waged by Parking Enforcement to keep delivery trucks from stopping on the tracks.  Also surprised at how quiet and smooth running the CAF cars are.  The other makes (like PCC's) I'm more familiar with, in other cities, seem clanky and rumbling by comparison (of course they're much older).  Here's a view from Rhinegeist 3rd floor tasting room.

 

The Kingsport Corridor was a proposal from the 1990's to build Light Rail from the Greater Cincinnati airport (CVG) to Kings Island amusement park. It would have travelled on streets downtown, in an alignment not much different than part of the current streetcar loop.

 

^ Never heard of it before tonight

 

 

I think the Kingsport Corridor study is the fifth study in the second row, beneath Metro Moves. Some consultant probably made a lot of money putting that binder together. I picked that binder out of a garbage can, which I guess says something about how it was accepted.

 

 

 

Saw the streetcar running for my first time today (I don't live in Cincinnati).  Seemed like there was a constant battle waged by Parking Enforcement to keep delivery trucks from parking on the tracks.  Also, compared with other streetcars that I am more familiar with (like PCC's for example) I am amazed at how quiet the CAF is.  In other cities the older cars can be rumbling clanky things. Here is a view from Rhinegeist 3rd floor tasting room.  (Not sure if the pic posted, I can see it on my macbook but not my i phone).

There's some utility work on Main Street that's completely unrelated to the streetcar right now. My Uber driver tonight made a comment about how the "rail car" is being renovated already even though "they just put it in." It's shocking how uneducated some people are.

Are you talking about Main in front of the Courthouse? It makes me mad that about a year after the street gets repaved, it's then torn up again. Why couldn't the utility work have been done prior to the paving? Now we're gonna pay for it twice.

Utility companies are responsible for the cost of repairing the street, and Cincinnati also has an ordinance where if the street is less than two (or maybe three) years old the utility has to pay even more, sometimes requiring a full width repaving.  Doesn't mean we don't still pay for it through higher utility rates as opposed to taxes, but it seems like the penalty isn't harsh enough to discourage this practice. 

I suspect that the work on Main right now is related to the utilities going into the Courthouse. They did upgrade or replace all of the utilities under the streets during streetcar construction, but we're still going to get curb cuts any time there is work done specific to a building along the route. It's actually going to make it easy to see what development has happened since the streetcar went in. There have already been several cuts on Elm and Race as new buildings are going up along the route.

Utility companies are responsible for the cost of repairing the street, and Cincinnati also has an ordinance where if the street is less than two (or maybe three) years old the utility has to pay even more, sometimes requiring a full width repaving.  Doesn't mean we don't still pay for it through higher utility rates as opposed to taxes, but it seems like the penalty isn't harsh enough to discourage this practice. 

 

I think it's a lot easier for the utilities to just pay to pave the street than try to coordinate with the city, particularly if that coordination is with MSD or GCWW who seemingly have trouble coordinating between various groups in their own departments.

 

There are a few folks on this board that entertain themselves by drawing lines on maps. I admit that I am one of them. I mentioned a possible route from Clifton and Ludlow along Clifton to Hughes Corner. I imagined a straight alignment in an exclusive right of way along the west side of Clifton Avenue, with a single rail vehicle moving back and fourth. The existing parking lane would either be eliminated or relocated about 12' east.

 

I have often taken the 17 along this route. It is typically crowded, and stops at every bus stop. I think it is a good candidate for rail, so I mentioned it on this board. I was immediately criticized by several formers who were opposed. Why so?

 

No, it didn't get built, because no one promoted it, but I still say that it would have been an easier route to construct, and a good starter route, with a very strong ridership. My question is, why are there so many haters on this board?

 

I think this route would be an excellent idea for the uptown connection, when it is built. I think Jake has talked about a route like this before - if a tunnel is required for ideal operation, as a lot of people have suggested, we no longer need to consider the Vine Street corridor the only feasible route. Clifton should be considered because it serves the busier side of UC's campus, and entertainment/business districts at both Calhoun/McMillan and Ludlow.

 

It made sense to treat the first phase of the Streetcar as a tool to encourage redevelopment, but future phases really should be focused on improving transit options, particularity along busy bus corridors, and eventually along busy highways as light rail lines.

It made sense to treat the first phase of the Streetcar as a tool to encourage redevelopment, but future phases really should be focused on improving transit options, particularity along busy bus corridors, and eventually along busy highways as light rail lines.

 

Honestly, I don't think these things are mutually exclusive.

 

But I do think that transit should always be considered in concert with redevelopment.  The technologies available need to complement what is trying to be done.

 

The bus system and the Redbike system strike me as the two main ways to guarantee access.  Sort of a basic way for every citizen in the City to get around. No section of the City should be cut off from transportation access, and these are the two ways to make sure there is a basic level of equality.

 

The streetcar system is about recreating density.  Naturally it is going to be limited to the Basin and Central hills area. I think expansion of the system should be based around higher property taxes for affected properties, if that is possible.

 

Finally, a faster, grade separated light rail type line would be about both redevelopment around the line (like they do with rail lines in Asia) and alternatives to the highways for quick access around and through the City.

 

All these different systems have to be able to interact well with one another. Can people take bicycles on the Streetcar?

I think it's grade-separated between OTR and UC and grade-separated again along the south side of the east campus, then somewhere in Avondale picking up the Blue Ash Line to Xavier, and from Xavier on to the Mill Creek Valley, to Mason and to Milford, say. So, in a built-out regional system here, not much street-running. Seattle's the model for Cincinnati

Can people take bicycles on the Streetcar?

 

They do in Portland, so I imagine they can here as well.

It made sense to treat the first phase of the Streetcar as a tool to encourage redevelopment, but future phases really should be focused on improving transit options, particularity along busy bus corridors, and eventually along busy highways as light rail lines.

 

Honestly, I don't think these things are mutually exclusive.

 

But I do think that transit should always be considered in concert with redevelopment.  The technologies available need to complement what is trying to be done.

 

The bus system and the Redbike system strike me as the two main ways to guarantee access.  Sort of a basic way for every citizen in the City to get around. No section of the City should be cut off from transportation access, and these are the two ways to make sure there is a basic level of equality.

 

The streetcar system is about recreating density.  Naturally it is going to be limited to the Basin and Central hills area. I think expansion of the system should be based around higher property taxes for affected properties, if that is possible.

 

Finally, a faster, grade separated light rail type line would be about both redevelopment around the line (like they do with rail lines in Asia) and alternatives to the highways for quick access around and through the City.

 

All these different systems have to be able to interact well with one another. Can people take bicycles on the Streetcar?

Yes bikes are allowed on the street car and should be able easily get on/off with the level door loading plan.

 

 

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I think the obvious phase 3 route would be to have a light rail line that specifically connects CVG to downtown Cincinnati, and potentially one for Lunken Airport as well.

 

Also, I'm not sure how feasible this, but one day I'd love to see a high speed monorail line that can climb to Mt. Adams and Price Hill. I just don't think a sky tram, or a funicular is the answer really (mostly due to the speed factor). Especially if there's potential for these 2 areas to have more density, and a larger business presence.

 

I think the obvious phase 3 route would be to have a light rail line that specifically connects CVG to downtown Cincinnati, and potentially one for Lunken Airport as well.

 

Also, I'm not sure how feasible this, but one day I'd love to see a high speed monorail line that can climb to Mt. Adams and Price Hill. I just don't think a sky tram, or a funicular is the answer really (mostly due to the speed factor). Especially if there's potential for these 2 areas to have more density, and a larger business presence.

 

 

Seems like I remember some pretty hard evidence on here that a CVG line would have very low ridership as opposed to a commuter-centric Florence/Union line with a CVG spur. A much more needed Southbank river-cities connector should be the priority.

 

I'd also respectfully disagree on a Mt. Adams tram. I'm thinking a hanging tram that provides views and access for leisure and business commuters alike. The distance for Mt. Adams is so short that high-speeds are not critical. I seem to remember thebillshark[/member] maybe having something like this?

A line to the airport is a bad idea.  It's a small airport now and the line can't also serve DHL or the suburbs south and southwest of the terminal without tunneling under the airfield, a $100 million prospect.  A terminal station plus a station at DHL or beyond maybe gets 3,000 rides per day, or a fraction of what a much cheaper line could get in a dozen other areas of the city. 

 

A line to the airport is a bad idea.  It's a small airport now and the line can't also serve DHL or the suburbs south and southwest of the terminal without tunneling under the airfield, a $100 million prospect.  A terminal station plus a station at DHL or beyond maybe gets 3,000 rides per day, or a fraction of what a much cheaper line could get in a dozen other areas of the city. 

 

 

Even when Delta had 600+ flights a day here in 2001, we could never get the airport ridership to prove out. Needs to serve the KY valley towns principally with the airport at the end of the line

Several cities that have recently opened rail lines to their airports are charging high fares for those routes. Denver RTD charges $9. Toronto opened their new airport rail link and originally charged $27.50 but eventually lowered it to $9. I think that's a pretty good strategy. Rail to the airport is nice to have, but usually doesn't have very high ridership unless you can also hit some big residential areas on the way or on the other side. A $9 rail ride to the airport is still a good deal for business travelers that would otherwise pay for a $60 cab ride or pay $9/day to park at the airport.

A line to the airport is a bad idea.  It's a small airport now and the line can't also serve DHL or the suburbs south and southwest of the terminal without tunneling under the airfield, a $100 million prospect.  A terminal station plus a station at DHL or beyond maybe gets 3,000 rides per day, or a fraction of what a much cheaper line could get in a dozen other areas of the city. 

 

 

Even when Delta had 600+ flights a day here in 2001, we could never get the airport ridership to prove out. Needs to serve the KY valley towns principally with the airport at the end of the line

 

You could have a rail line out to the West Side that would turn south and cross over a new rail & car bridge near the Anderson Ferry. I could see this as being the type of project that might actually get some support from westsiders. They would be getting direct rail links to Downtown Cincinnati and the airport, in addition to a new bridge for cars.

Several cities that have recently opened rail lines to their airports are charging high fares for those routes. Denver RTD charges $9. Toronto opened their new airport rail link and originally charged $27.50 but eventually lowered it to $9. I think that's a pretty good strategy. Rail to the airport is nice to have, but usually doesn't have very high ridership unless you can also hit some big residential areas on the way or on the other side. A $9 rail ride to the airport is still a good deal for business travelers that would otherwise pay for a $60 cab ride or pay $9/day to park at the airport.

 

Depends.

 

If the said business traveler lives close to one of the rail stops along the rail line to CVG, I could see them taking it.  But otherwise, if the said business traveler lives in the suburbs away from the rail line, it likely wouldn't be worth it to drive to a rail stop, pay to leave their car there for xx days, and then take the rail line to CVG.   

The needs of business travelers and suburban commuters only represent a fraction of transit rides.  That's why slow street-running streetcars and light rail are such surprising successes.  They have much higher ridership on the weekends and off-peak hours than any commuter or airport-oriented transit line. 

 

The real winning concept for Cincinnati would be a regional plan connecting each of the four major colleges -- UC, Xavier, NKU, and Cincinnati State.  But the big trick here is that everyone thinks XU is #2 but it's actually dead last, by a longshot.  UC has 40,000 students, NKU is #2 at 15,000, Cincinnati State has 10,000, and XU has just 6,000. 

 

I'd love to see a study of light rail from the Covington riverfront south to Latonia, KY, then crossing the Licking to NKU and a park & ride on US 27.  The Covington basin neighborhoods, including Latonia, are no doubt where the highest ROI potential exists in Kentucky.  The C&O tracks bisect Covington perfectly and head right into Latonia's business district.  The housing is similar to Norwood and insanely cheap. 

 

 

 

That's what the people who say that the streetcar "doesn't go anywhere" clearly don't understand. Light rail systems are multi-billion dollar investments that serve a single purpose for most riders -- getting them to and from work, and maybe the occasional trip to a downtown event or the airport. Streetcar systems are a much cheaper investment that serve all the other trips that people take every day, like going to the grocery store, going to the gym, going to the park, going out to eat, going to a bar, etc. Light rail and commuter rail can still make sense as one part of the transportation network, especially when compared to the costs of highways, but streetcars generally have a higher ROI.

^Station locations matter much more than top or average speed.  Also, surface running transit means riders see all of the businesses along the line.  If they're on a former freight ROW, they don't see the businesses districts. 

New "Cincinnati Bell Connector" paint scheme to be unveiled tomorrow, Aug 30, at 10:30am. 

Until the Streetcar ad buy i never even noticed the logo change. Are these trucks out in the wild already? Wonder if they will stick with the same theme (dots & waves)?

Oh god I hope not...

Several cities that have recently opened rail lines to their airports are charging high fares for those routes. Denver RTD charges $9. Toronto opened their new airport rail link and originally charged $27.50 but eventually lowered it to $9. I think that's a pretty good strategy. Rail to the airport is nice to have, but usually doesn't have very high ridership unless you can also hit some big residential areas on the way or on the other side. A $9 rail ride to the airport is still a good deal for business travelers that would otherwise pay for a $60 cab ride or pay $9/day to park at the airport.

 

Depends.

 

If the said business traveler lives close to one of the rail stops along the rail line to CVG, I could see them taking it.  But otherwise, if the said business traveler lives in the suburbs away from the rail line, it likely wouldn't be worth it to drive to a rail stop, pay to leave their car there for xx days, and then take the rail line to CVG. 

 

Depends on the company, but I don't think most business travelers are really all that worried about a $60 cab ride they can expense. To me, it seems far more enticing to target local flyers.

The value of better public transportation is hardly saving the middle and upper class cab fares to the airport.  It's about reducing the expense and unpredictability of one of nearly every Americans' highest budget items, encouraging a sedentary population to get up and move, to encourage better regional land use, to reduce pollution, to keep more money spent on transportation in the region in the region rather then giving it away as dividends to the shareholders of multinational companies, etc. 

Until the Streetcar ad buy i never even noticed the logo change. Are these trucks out in the wild already? Wonder if they will stick with the same theme (dots & waves)?

That figure 8 / infinity symbol would actually make sense on the streetcar since the route is a crooked figure 8 shape. I wouldn't be surprised if that logo and some of those dots and colors end up on the streetcar similar to that van.

There was a Cincinnati Bell trailer set-up on Fountain Square a few weeks back with the dots leading to the new logo... There is also 'Connect Cincinnati', their citywide WiFi that is free to FiOptics customers:

 

Odd that the orange didn't totally go away... From @UrbanCincy:

 

Fugly, IMO.  Sheesh.

 

Before anyone asks, the last bit of yellow-orange will be covered by other ads.

Eh, not so bad.  I liked the old better, but this will be okay considering they are covering up that last bit of orange.  Hopefully the ads have colors close to the Cincinnati Bell color scheme.

Plus, I don't know if it's true or not but I've heard the streetcars are going to "talk" too -- i.e., promotional announcements.  Jeez, we finally seem to have gotten rid of talking buses that virtually shouted their routes from early morning until late at night, which created a disturbance for downtown residents along their routes.  I hope the streetcars won't be blaring their messages, but judging from what's been done to their appearance, it's a vain hope.

 

I blame those on city council who opposed the streetcar plus the mayor.  If opponents would've done the right thing and funded the operating expense from the budget we could've avoided this. 

Yeah obviously not as sleek as the unbranded version, but not terrible. Though everyone here is going to complain for about 3 pages about it.

I liked how visible the orange was in the urban environment as this blends into the background more, but that isnt necessarily a bad thing. We could have had this theme...

^^Indeed. Cincinnati is lucky to have a streetcar at all but too many will let a green band at the top that most people won't even notice spoil it for them.

FYI: These shirts are still available for purchase.

 

 

https://allscreen.co/collections/frontpage/products/official-cincinnati-streetcar-t-shirt?variant=17008647873

FYI: These shirts are still available for purchase.

 

 

https://allscreen.co/collections/frontpage/products/official-cincinnati-streetcar-t-shirt?variant=17008647873

 

I finally pulled the trigger on one of these the day the Cincinnati Bell Connector branding was announced. I didn't want the old logo to die. I didn't get one before because I'm not thrilled with the grey-on-grey color scheme. They probably would have sold a lot more if they had different colors available.

Yeah I just bought mine. I would have liked the logo to be the orange/yellow scheme with the heathered gray shirt.

Cincy Shirts carries the orange/yellow scheme on a grey shirt

 

 

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Good to know. Thanks

 

Are you talking about this one? http://www.cincyshirts.com/index.php/cincyshirts/about-to-get-rail-cincinnati-streetcar-t-shirt.html

No, I bought a shirt there that has the official streetcar logo with the appropriate colors. I got it at the store on Main.

 

 

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Hopefully the ads have colors close to the Cincinnati Bell color scheme.

 

Call Mr. Roof For the Proof!

JYP[/member] no. I can't deal with that.

JYP[/member] no. I can't deal with that.

Ha!

You can charter a streetcar:

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/streetcar/charter-a-cincinnati-streetcar/

Oh jeez, I wish I wouldn't have clicked on your link Jake.  When I did, I also clicked on the link "how to advertise on the Cincinnati Bell Connector".  Not a pretty sight.