Also, the real-time arrival information is borderline irrelevant.  When I was a kid, my dad used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe. 

 

 

In 2007, I used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe.

I hate to admit it, but I understand the anti street crowd a little bit now. We created a really expensive system, that is slow, and has incredibly long intervals.

 

 

Um, do you not understand that that is simply a matter of appropriately funding operation of the system?  That Cranley succeeded in getting as few streetcars running as possible under the guidelines of the federal grants?  If we can get him out of there, then this thing can be adequately funded and we can 3-4-5 streetcars all the time.  This thing could have the #1 ridership of any new streetcar system in the country, and there could be a push to buy a sixth car so that we can run 5 more often.

 

Also, the real-time arrival information is borderline irrelevant.  When I was a kid, my dad used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe.  Metro didn't even have those route markers with the bus numbers on them that they have now.  If people can see a streetcar coming, then they know it's almost there.  If it's out of sight, then they're waiting at least 5 or 10 minutes.  Not hard to figure out.

 

No the real time tracking is INCREDIBLY relevant. People want to know whether they should say screw it and wait it out, or just walk. If I knew a street car was coming at such and such time, I might go and grab a coffee at a nearby cafe in OTR. I'll keep myself occupied at the very least. But not knowing when the street car coming is incredibly frustrating. It makes the wait feel that much longer.

 

 

Also, the real-time arrival information is borderline irrelevant.  When I was a kid, my dad used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe. 

 

 

In 2007, I used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe.

 

It's funny. It's 2016, and I still can catch some Muni buses at poles with a yellow stripe on them... granted, the yellow stripe also has the route number stenciled on, but still...

^-That's something that shocked me when I went to San Fran - I remember that being a major complaint in Cincy and while most of SF is pretty well marked, there are oddball spots where they just have the orange mark still laying around (middle of Chinatown was where I saw one).

No the real time tracking is INCREDIBLY relevant. People want to know whether they should say screw it and wait it out, or just walk. If I knew a street car was coming at such and such time, I might go and grab a coffee at a nearby cafe in OTR. I'll keep myself occupied at the very least. But not knowing when the street car coming is incredibly frustrating. It makes the wait feel that much longer.

 

It's going to get fixed. We're going to have it. When? I don't know. Maybe next week. Maybe next month. Maybe not until 2017. Doesn't matter. We will not see a ridership spike when they get this working. 

 

 

I told some reporters yesterday that we haven't had trains on our streets in 65 years, so we're not going to be perfect after six and a half days. I'm with Jake.

I hate to admit it, but I understand the anti street crowd a little bit now. We created a really expensive system, that is slow, and has incredibly long intervals.

 

 

Also, the real-time arrival information is borderline irrelevant.  When I was a kid, my dad used to catch the bus next to a telephone pole with an orange stripe.

Spare me. And how's that transit system been working for ya all this time?

It's amazing how many successful transit systems there are in the world without real time tracking. What did people do before smartphones?

Lack of information (such as timetables) is made up for by frequency.  Lack of frequency is made up for by strict adherence to a schedule.  With neither, then the systems are mostly relegated to use by only those who have no other option.  Online connectivity and tracking is the new normal today.  Saying that real-time arrival information is unnecessary is no different than saying wi-fi or cell service is unnecessary.  People got along just fine dialing from home or using a payphone on the street corner after all, amirite?  What did people do before wheelchair ramps, level-boarding, or kneeling buses?  Life just sucked for those people unfortunate enough to have a disability.  What about computers?  People still wrote letters before computers.  They did it by hand or had a typing pool and secretaries took dictation.  Try selling that workflow to any business nowadays.  Ignore technological advances at your peril, that's true in pretty much everything.  What was a luxury just a decade or two ago is now the bare minimum expectation, and if it's not provided then people won't bother. 

It's amazing how many successful transit systems there are in the world without real time tracking. What did people do before smartphones?

 

They smoked cigarettes

Especially since the streetcar's biggest competition might be Uber, and Uber lets you stare at a dot on a map representing your driver's precise location.

Lack of information (such as timetables) is made up for by frequency.  Lack of frequency is made up for by strict adherence to a schedule.  With neither, then the systems are mostly relegated to use by only those who have no other option.  Online connectivity and tracking is the new normal today.  Saying that real-time arrival information is unnecessary is no different than saying wi-fi or cell service is unnecessary.  People got along just fine dialing from home or using a payphone on the street corner after all, amirite?  What did people do before wheelchair ramps, level-boarding, or kneeling buses?  Life just sucked for those people unfortunate enough to have a disability.  What about computers?  People still wrote letters before computers.  They did it by hand or had a typing pool and secretaries took dictation.  Try selling that workflow to any business nowadays.  Ignore technological advances at your peril, that's true in pretty much everything.  What was a luxury just a decade or two ago is now the bare minimum expectation, and if it's not provided then people won't bother. 

 

You nailed it.  I did ride Chicago buses before tracker and uber was around, it sucked particularly in the winter.  Not every bus line in Chicago runs frequently and sometimes even the frequent ones fall behind.  Tracker has been a godsend for me and its allowed me to use transit more frequently and more strategically than I would have otherwise.

 

Btw maybe this is better for the SORTA thread but there are grumblings of a deficit for the whole bus system any thoughts on this?  - http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/15/revenue-woes-prompt-sorta-downsizing/90353302/

Streetcar's ridership Mon-Thurs (first four days of paid service) was an average of 3,185 per day. Total ridership of 12,740 for those four days.

Streetcar's ridership Mon-Thurs (first four days of paid service) was an average of 3,185 per day. Total ridership of 12,740 for those four days.

 

Since we compared opening weekend numbers... KC had 18,556 total, 4,639 average of the first four days of non-opening weekend service. Of course, it is free.

My comment was more snarky and sarcastic but off-the-shelf technologies do exist and can be implemented with relative ease. It just perplexes me that a system that works pretty well for buses can't be duplicated on the streetcar.

 

It must be a different system than what RTA uses on their 55 and Healthline buses in Cleveland, because both "real time" counters are notoriously unreliable. The one in front of my old apartment always displayed the same "real time" information despite the bus being 5 to 10 minutes late.

Can I get you guys to agree to help staff the stops in 3-4 hour shifts this weekend? If so, message me at [email protected] with a preferred time-window. I'm building a spreadsheet and will be back in touch. Especially need people tonight and tomorrow afternoon. thanks.

^ Staff the stops to do what?

^ Staff the stops to do what?

 

email me and I'll tell you

Ease any confusion/chaos that will arise from thousands of people trying to use ticket vending/validation machines that are apparently a hot mess to operate, even for those familiar with transit ticketing machines from other cities.

 

As for the ridership numbers, wasn't there a projected growing/stabilization period expected before we hit a truly accurate daily usage number to work with? What was that? I'd imagine that early on people haven't really had the opportunity to get used to it in their daily routine and therefore ridership will grow in the coming months. That and the ironing out of any oddities.

^ Staff the stops to do what?

 

email me and I'll tell you

^ LOL. Just saying, people might be more inclined to step up and volunteer if they had an idea of what they were getting into. Don't see a purpose on being short on details when you're trying to recruit volunteers. Just my $.02

Ok fine, here's what I'm sending out in a few minutes. Email me at [email protected]

 

 

 

Dear Friends,

 

Thanks for giving up some time to work streetcar stops this weekend. The attached spreadsheet has your name associated with one or more of the several time blocks, some of which are still open. If you haven't picked a slot -- pick two if you can - please do that now by responding to this email.

 

I'll build this spreadsheet as I hear from others through today and Saturday. Metro will send me a list of what it believes will be the busiest stops.

 

The objective is familiarizing Cincinnatians with the streetcar. Here's a very short video on the ticket machine. Keep it on your phone.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTnXzIoWuRg

 

The things we are trying to emphasize during the event:

People should buy a $2.00 Day Pass and avoid the lines on their return or other subsequent trips - only one transaction!  There may be big crowds at the Banks and other downtown stations

Better yet: Show people how to download the Cincy EZRide app!  You get one free Metro ride with a download and it will import your information if you already use Cincy EZPark. Skip the lines and the ticket machines!

Make sure people validate their tickets when they are ready to ride - this is something Metro is trying to get the word out on

Suggestions for volunteers:

Wear colors that emulate the livery of the streetcar - teal, or blue and green

If asked, say you're just a citizen volunteer with no affiliation

Do not touch anyone or anyone's money, credit cards or phones - let them insert the cash themselves

If you see something/say something - if there is an emergency, dial 911

Metro customer service is 513-621-4455

Passengers should not be on the platform edge (red area) when a Cincinnati Bell Connector is approaching the platform

What I'll do: I'll be in touch with Metro throughout the weekend, passing along info by email about which stops are being jammed and where we need help.

 

We're gonna need more people. Can you recruit others? Have them contact me by email with a general idea of when they want to work. I'll add them to the list and re-broadcast this email and the spreadsheet from time-to-time. Please don't forward the spreadsheet.

 

The top of the spreadsheet has the most important stops to cover, ranked by importance. I'm not assigning stops. Just observe and use your best judgment as to where to go. If a stop isn't busy, move on to somewhere else.

 

Thanks again,

 

John Schneider

513-470-1300

 

^ Excellent! I will pass this message on to some friends who I think might be interested and available.

How does validation work?  Is that for tickets bought elsewhere?  Do the kiosks print tickets that aren't already validated?  In much of Europe there's tiny validation machines on the vehicles themselves (they're just time stampers really), so you can buy a ticket anywhere and the clock only starts ticking when you actually board. 

When you purchase a ticket, it is not yet validated. You have to validate it before you ride. So you could purchase 5 all-day passes at once and validate one each day. I agree that there should be validators on board each streetcar. Just install one in the center section of each vehicle.

 

It appears they print unvailidated and there's a validation slot right there in the machine with the intention being that you can buy tickets for anytime in the future and just validate right there when ready.

 

But there needs to be a one step "purchase+ validate" option that's clear. Someone trying to buy a ticket for right then shouldn't need to immediately reinsert the ticket the moment they receive it. The default should just be printing validated tickets with an option you have to seek out to print an unvalidated ticket.

Well they are adding signage on the machine that makes it much more clear that you have to validate before you ride.

The TVMs for Norfolk's TIDE light rail have an option to Purchase & Validate along with the purchase to just Purchase. Clearly this is something the TVMs can do.

 

The problem with having validators on-board is that some shady folks will buy an unvalidated pass/ticket and then only validate it iff they see a fare enforcement official.

The Business Courier has some information about the traffic signal changes that are being made to help speed up the streetcar.

Can't wait to see the Enquirer headline about this that says "Streetcar slows down Traffic on Downtown Streets".

Anyone know anything about an accident, not involving the streetcar, at 5th and Walnut?

Anyone know anything about an accident, not involving the streetcar, at 5th and Walnut?

 

Car struck a pedestrian at 5th & Walnut, traffic completely closed at that intersection. Streetcar service was stopped but will resume momentarily.

I drove the route in my car tonight, through the crowds.  I wish the streetcars had an active brake light like a regular car or truck...you don't know when it is braking.  Also, the streetcar I drove behind had its rear window shade pulled in the dark, which made it a little harder to see than it should have been. 

 

I looked at as many of the station displays as I could and all of them had the wrong time.  For example, I saw a streetcar heading north on Elm at Findlay Market but the Race St. station said 15-minute wait when the next streetcar was just 3-4 minutes away.  Then the next southward station at Liberty and Race said 2-minute wait.  Other stations said "delayed" when the streetcar was most certainly running.  Perhaps the stations are mixed up in the system, with station 10 getting station 15's info, or something like that. 

 

 

More observations:

-There is no reason for "Route 100" to appear on the stations screen.  There is no reason for every line of the board to be consumed with text at every instant. 

-The Music Hall station is very dark without the lighting from the typical station canopy.  Perhaps some lighting can be added, or at least a general sidewalk light.

-The streetcar sign boards endlessly scroll "OTR - The Banks" whether traveling north or south.  It would make much more sense if they switched at the endpoints between "Northbound -- Over-the-Rhine" (spell out entire neighborhood name) and "Southbound -- Riverfront". 

-The transit-only lanes on Second St. and the FWW bridges appeared to work very well during Oktoberfest, or at least for the one streetcar I watched roll through.  I followed it in my car and it got back to Fourth St. before I did. 

-Streetcar throws off a pretty impressive spark as it passes the junction at 12th & Race. 

 

The bus passes on the left side of the screen are the most confusing aspect of the ticket vending machines.

 

The options should be down the left hand side:

2 hour pass - ride now (comes out validated)

2 hour pass - ride later

Day pass - ride now (comes out validated)

Day pass - ride later

 

The button used for the streetcar now on the lower right should say bus passes.

 

You have a machine that is plastered with "Cincinnati Bell Connector" why wouldn't one assume the passes presented are for the streetcar?? It is completely unclear you re really buying a bus pass.  The layout used suggests the primary purpose of the machine is to sell bus passes and streetcar tickets is the secondary purpose.  Add this to the list of METRO operations grievances. It shouldn't take a video to explain it.

 

 

 

-Streetcar throws off a pretty impressive spark as it passes the junction at 12th & Race. 

 

When I rode and was watching the operator, he switched to the power/voltage view on the info screen for a minute or two.  The catenary voltage was swinging wildly between 770 and 830 volts.  I was surprised to see it fluctuate so quickly, and we were just waiting for the light to turn at Race and Central, so I guess it was all the other cars on the line.  I would have assumed the fluctuations would be more gradual as cars accelerate, decelerate, etc.  Regardless, with all five cars out on the line and all with the a/c on full blast, it shows there's still plenty of overhead in the electrical system.  That's only a couple blocks from the Court Street substation.  I wonder how much voltage drop there is at the "low" points, which would be around 14th/15th in OTR and 5th/6th downtown.

-There is no reason for "Route 100" to appear on the stations screen.  There is no reason for every line of the board to be consumed with text at every instant. 

 

I totally agree with this, I know it's done so it can be tracked as a route on the app, but it causes more confusion than its worth. I have had to answer many people's questions asking if there was more than one route, if they were getting on the right route, does one route go to Clifton does one route go to the banks etc. There are no routes, it's a loop that is either going southbound toward the river or northbound to otr and that's it but people not from here or who haven't been downtown in a while get freaked out by seeing route numbers and being asked to pay $70 for a pass.

 

On the bright side, I took it up to Findlay market at lunch today with coworkers and it was great. There were a ton more people up at Eli's and Findlay than normal at lunch and while riding I heard one guy say to another that he didn't think anyone would use it but that as we stood on the crowded car he had to admit that he was wrong.

Here is a photo of the crowd leaving Oktoberfest:

I drove the route in my car tonight, through the crowds.  I wish the streetcars had an active brake light like a regular car or truck...you don't know when it is braking. 

 

They don't have those?  I haven't driven behind one yet, but I thought that was a legal requirement for any vehicle on the road.  They do have orange and red lights.  Are those just on/off?

Lack of information (such as timetables) is made up for by frequency.  Lack of frequency is made up for by strict adherence to a schedule.  With neither, then the systems are mostly relegated to use by only those who have no other option.

I wish that I could have said it so well and succinctly.

 

We have "high enough" frequency for this to be convenient, but not high enough to rest solely on it. 12-15 minute headway is good, because it means 6-7.5 minutes average wait, but it's not nice when you are on the 12-15 minute end, which you will be. And, that's after the traffic light priority / preemption / timing issues are worked out.

 

A few of you seem to imply that when we finally solve the "bunching" problem, then everything will be OK - i.e either that the frequency is then high enough and regular enough, or maybe you're implying that we'll actually achieve "strict adherence to a schedule." Personally, I don't think that the frequency alone will be high enough to meet the demands of the consumers that we're targeting. And thinking that we'll ever run this in the southern loop traffic and achieve "strict adherence to a schedule" is folly.

 

The current situation is made worse than it ever needed to be, because SORTA made the decision to post what I guess is the "schedule" for the next three streetcars on the reader board, and tried really hard to make it look like real time information. I'd have thought they would recognize that people respond differently to flashing / scrolling electronic text compared to, say, a paper schedule in a yellowed piece of plastic tacked to a post. In my experience every single person who is new to the streetcar and looks up at that board assumes it is the word of the streetcar God and is amazed when it turns out to be wrong. The reactions I've observed are totally consistent with "you just lied to me." I personally felt that way, which is probably why I'm spewing vitriol here on this issue, despite being amongst the most fervent streetcar supporters.

 

The good news is that technology is slowly replacing "strict adherence to a schedule" with "I'll tell you the approximate frequency, plus accurate information about when the next car will arrive, at zero cost to you" - i.e. on smartphones, web browsers, and the reader board. Its a better option for both the agency and the customer.

 

Some of you have implied that real time tracking is more-or-less a luxury and that demanding it be done, as a priority item, is being overly "dramatic." You are wrong. Yes, it's true that transit systems all over the world continue to operate without this technology. But when transit systems are invented that are viewed as better, they win. That's why cars reduced our transit systems in the US to miserable systems for people who "have no other option." This is about building and operating a system that competes with cars, and slowly wins over those folks, not one that is "as good as" anything that we had before. Real time tracking is not just some weeny and badly applied software tech, like being able to see inside my refrigerator before I open it - it's fundamental and enabling technology that is an important part of the solution that allows transit to compete with cars.

 

And, nobody has implied that implementing this technology will change things "overnight." That assumption would be about as stupid as any COAST argument against the streetcar that I can remember. People are not computers that integrate over an ensemble of previous trips and calculate that the median wait time is 7.2 minutes and that the risk of being late by 15 minutes is acceptably low; they're emotional beings that are made to sit for 20 minutes one time, are late for lunch with their friends, conflate that experience with everything else about government that they like to bitch about, and then live to tell about it, over and over and over again. And it takes us a long time to get them back.

 

This is about slowly winning these folks back through an unrelenting standard of excellence in design, construction (both already achieved), and operations that shocks them so much, it starts to fracture their (wrong) underlying world view that "everything about transit sucks." That's what I've always thought this streetcar was about, and I know I'm far from alone.

 

So, yeah, I'm all for the hard work to win over DOTE on signaling issues, supporting SORTA with operating rules that try to reduce bunching, cause that's all good and rowing in the right direction. But I won't be convinced that realtime transit tracking is somehow a luxury that comes after these issues. I'll think about all of these as pieces of a bridge where until we achieve each of them we won't get to where we need to be.

 

Practically, I also get that SORTA is resource constrained, and all of this urgent talk about realtime arrivals can end up as a big rope-pushing exercise. Not fun. SORTA probably can't do this alone. We should be lobbying friends at the City to help. Councilman Sittenfeld is chairing a "smart cities workgroup" that would be perfect to take this up, and I'll be suggesting just that. Maybe others can do the same.

SORTA removed schedule info from reader boards. [emoji106]

I still saw "DELAYED" on the boards yesterday though. So it still seems like it's using the scheduled arrival times to some extent.

I drove the route in my car tonight, through the crowds.  I wish the streetcars had an active brake light like a regular car or truck...you don't know when it is braking. 

 

They don't have those?  I haven't driven behind one yet, but I thought that was a legal requirement for any vehicle on the road.  They do have orange and red lights.  Are those just on/off?

 

No, not in the obvious way that Metro buses do.  And what's weird is that because you can't see any turning wheels and the streetcars don't jostle around like how a bus or truck does, it's hard to tell both when they get moving and when they slow down.  I also think it would be beneficial if the streetcars had turn signals that indicate that they're either turning or shifting lanes.  Obviously they can't turn off of their track, but almost nobody is familiar enough with the track layout to know when those shifts and turns are coming.  This stuff isn't as important during the day as it is at night because the concrete track base is much more visible during the day. 

 

I still saw "DELAYED" on the boards yesterday though. So it still seems like it's using the scheduled arrival times to some extent.

Yeah but I just saw this a few minutes ago at Findlay and Race

 

I also think it would be beneficial if the streetcars had turn signals that indicate that they're either turning or shifting lanes. 

 

They do. 

I have always seen the streetcars properly use their turn signals every time they turn or change lanes.

Are we sure they are running 4 today?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure but I would assume yes. Walnut is still the choke point, bumper to bumper traffic.

Not sure but I would assume yes. Walnut is still the choke point, bumper to bumper traffic.

 

Take a lane on Walnut and make it transit-only, then add a southbound lane to Vine Street making it two way through Downtown.

Another choke point during the week is Central Parkway and Main. Lots of traffic movements, lot of peds

They can't really do that.  The main problem seems to be the Aronoff block.  The Aronoff itself has a front plaza that consumes a lane.  During big downtown events like this and when the Aronoff has events they could simply block off this block to all but transit and taxis and handicapped drop-offs.  GPS keeps directing people down Walnut when they could make their way through the grid in a number of different ways.