I want to say John Schneider[/member] that having this information is, in my opinion, really valuable. I hope that we can distribute it widely. It's just totally different to acknowledge that there are problems, and we're not getting it done as quickly as we'd all like, but we are working through it -- than to have silence that breeds conspiracy theories of incompetence. I only wish that the good folks at SORTA could take the lead in getting this information out in effective ways (like, for instance, Cincy EZRide! :clap:), so that more than our rather insulated urbancincy community could know there are good people on the hunt for solutions.

This TV news story is pretty interesting in its portrayal of the streetcar:

http://www.wlwt.com/article/will-new-development-fit-into-historic-over-the-rhine-community/8413646

 

It inevitably ties the minds of longtime streetcar opponents in a knot since the innocent b-roll of the streetcar passing this empty lot can't help but insinuate that it had some roll in motivating this development, yet that development is found to be controversial by some.  Yet if the development hadn't met some opposition, most TV viewers would have no idea that it is happening. 

I think it's pretty safe to say that the Cranley administration is going to do everything in their power to prevent the streetcar from getting signal priority. Cranley's Chief of Staff tweeted:

 

@ChrisCinciBiz The novelty is wearing off. Commuters realize it's not convenient, which led to 11 days in Nov w less than 1000 rides.

 

@ChrisCinciBiz Elitism of streetcar: Disrupt traffic for 10s of thousands of drivers to accommodate hundreds of streetcar riders.

 

@ChrisCinciBiz You don't think that giving the streetcar a constant green light will disrupt traffic?

 

@ChrisCinciBiz The novelty is wearing off. Commuters realize it's not convenient, which led to 11 days in Nov w less than 1000 rides.

 

No it has nothing to do with the fact that it's colder and there's less people on the street in general. Lol.

 

 

@ChrisCinciBiz The novelty is wearing off. Commuters realize it's not convenient, which led to 11 days in Nov w less than 1000 rides.

 

 

 

Remember, COMMUTES ARE THE ONLY TRIPS THAT EXIST!

Part of the irony in this is that signal priority would make the streetcar MORE a convenient and attractive to people, which should theoretically boost the numbers being complained about here.

 

@ChrisCinciBiz The novelty is wearing off. Commuters realize it's not convenient, which led to 11 days in Nov w less than 1000 rides.

 

No it has nothing to do with the fact that it's colder and there's less people on the street in general. Lol.

 

Well weekend ridership is going to go back up next summer and September will be big with Riverfest and Oktoberfest.  So this is bit of a losing strategy by Cranley. 

 

But he realizes that he has Simpson and Richardson in a pinch.  The 2017 mayoral race will be yet another referendum on the streetcar.  As long as there are no improvements and low ridership on Mondays-Wednesdays, Cranley can say the streetcar is only for tourists and that they have no interest in riding to other parts of town. 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

The streetcar has avoided scrutiny in the fall due to Trump overload.  So while one might think Cranley and the anti-streetcar crowd might get drowned-out in 2017, Trump's unprecedented level of craziness might inspire Cranley and COAST to go berserk.  If the president can get away with it, so can they.

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

 

In Kansas City the rides are free. That also helps to inflate ridership. 2000 people per day paying $1 per ride is better than 4000 people per day riding free

Define "better".

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

 

In Kansas City the rides are free. That also helps to inflate ridership. 2000 people per day paying $1 per ride is better than 4000 people per day riding free

 

 

Kansas City has a special taxing district that pays for streetcar operations.  Here the casino revenues were going to pay for the streetcar until Cranley was elected and intentionally screwed up everything.  Truthfully the city could easily pay for free streetcar rides out of the general fund but COAST, etc., would go absolutely nuts. 

 

 

Psssshhhhh, no doubt Cranley is going to crank that ish up again.  Let's push it to the limit to get signal prioritization, which is damn well needed anyways for all vehicles, get everything running in sync, and then we will see how convenient it is.

 

Of course the admin would do anything they could to make it look bad, it's all politics.

Define "better".

 

Better is that there needs to be some sort of user fee to use it. It needs to be cheap (and there is nothing wrong with the city subsidizing it) but the users need to carry some of the burden.

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

 

In Kansas City the rides are free. That also helps to inflate ridership. 2000 people per day paying $1 per ride is better than 4000 people per day riding free

 

 

Kansas City has a special taxing district that pays for streetcar operations.  Here the casino revenues were going to pay for the streetcar until Cranley was elected and intentionally screwed up everything.  Truthfully the city could easily pay for free streetcar rides out of the general fund but COAST, etc., would go absolutely nuts. 

 

 

Don't you think it is reasonable that the users should at least have to pay something. For such a limited service area, it would be unfair to tax the entire city for what only a small portion of the city can truly benefit from.

Downtown Cincinnati generates over 50% of all of the income and property tax revenue the city collects.  It subsidizes everything that goes on in every other corner of the city. 

Enquirer is reporting on this now too:

 

Streetcar ridership numbers way short of projections

 

http://cin.ci/2gOwiOx

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

 

In Kansas City the rides are free. That also helps to inflate ridership. 2000 people per day paying $1 per ride is better than 4000 people per day riding free

 

 

Kansas City has a special taxing district that pays for streetcar operations.  Here the casino revenues were going to pay for the streetcar until Cranley was elected and intentionally screwed up everything.  Truthfully the city could easily pay for free streetcar rides out of the general fund but COAST, etc., would go absolutely nuts. 

 

 

Don't you think it is reasonable that the users should at least have to pay something. For such a limited service area, it would be unfair to tax the entire city for what only a small portion of the city can truly benefit from.

 

A $1 fare is not expensive but it adds friction to the process of riding. It makes people spend 45 extra seconds at the fare box or using Metro's app.

 

Anybody who works with analytics knows that adding a single extra step to a checkout process will result in more people abandoning the transaction. Every second that you add to a website's loading time results in some percentage of people saying "screw it" and leaving.

 

So if we want people to actually ride the streetcar, spend more money at businesses along the route, we should make riding as easy as possible.

 

Kansas City didn't even buy fare boxes so they saved a couple of million dollars in capital costs up front.

Enquirer is reporting on this now too:

 

Streetcar ridership numbers way short of projections

 

http://cin.ci/2gOwiOx

 

 

Only 365 riders on Thanksgiving Day, the lowest ridership day so far.  So we're going to be paying the staff 2X on the two lowest ridership days of the year, Thanksgiving and Christmas.  This is dumb. 

 

I don't ride the streetcar often because, frankly, I don't go out that much these days, but the last few times I have used it the wait was a joke.  I was out with my family the day before Thxgiving and we went to dinner at Taqueria Mercado on 8th and Walnut.  After dinner we thought it would be fun to hop on a streetcar and ride up to OTR to go to a bar.  We walked over to the stop at 7th and Walnut  We looked at the sign and the estimated wait was 20 minutes!  I wanted to wait regardless just to see if it really would take that long, but 2 of my family members said "screw that I'm walking" and just walked.  We waited, and waited, and waited, and waited!  It took over 20 minutes to finally arrive!  This was a Wednesday night around 7pm. 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Cranley's plan all along.  Make it so inconvenient that no one wants to ride it, then throw up your hands and say "see, told you so." 

I am a long time supporter of this system and campaigned with the rest of you to make this a reality, but this system IS GOING TO FAIL miserably if they don't immediately find a solution to the wait times.  No one wants to wait more than 10 minutes to get on a streetcar.  That should be the maximum amount of time anyone should wait IMO.  Waiting any longer than that is pointless because most places downtown can be walked to in 15 minutes or less, unless you're literally walking from the Banks to Findlay Mkt.

I don't ride the streetcar often because, frankly, I don't go out that much these days, but the last few times I have used it the wait was a joke.  I was out with my family the day before Thxgiving and we went to dinner at Taqueria Mercado on 8th and Walnut.  After dinner we thought it would be fun to hop on a streetcar and ride up to OTR to go to a bar.  We walked over to the stop at 7th and Walnut  We looked at the sign and the estimated wait was 20 minutes!  I wanted to wait regardless just to see if it really would take that long, but 2 of my family members said "screw that I'm walking" and just walked.  We waited, and waited, and waited, and waited!  It took over 20 minutes to finally arrive!  This was a Wednesday night around 7pm. 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Cranley's plan all along.  Make it so inconvenient that no one wants to ride it, then throw up your hands and say "see, told you so." 

I am a long time supporter of this system and campaigned with the rest of you to make this a reality, but this system IS GOING TO FAIL miserably if they don't immediately find a solution to the wait times.  No one wants to wait more than 10 minutes to get on a streetcar.  That should be the maximum amount of time anyone should wait IMO.  Waiting any longer than that is pointless because most places downtown can be walked to in 15 minutes or less, unless you're literally walking from the Banks to Findlay Mkt.

 

The usual suspects are going crazy with this ridership data on The Enquirer's politics page.  None are taking any of these temporary and fixable issues into account, nor are any aware of any of the new construction and rehabs on almost every block along the streetcar route in long-desolate Over-the-Rhine. 

 

 

 

I don't ride the streetcar often because, frankly, I don't go out that much these days, but the last few times I have used it the wait was a joke.  I was out with my family the day before Thxgiving and we went to dinner at Taqueria Mercado on 8th and Walnut.  After dinner we thought it would be fun to hop on a streetcar and ride up to OTR to go to a bar.  We walked over to the stop at 7th and Walnut  We looked at the sign and the estimated wait was 20 minutes!  I wanted to wait regardless just to see if it really would take that long, but 2 of my family members said "screw that I'm walking" and just walked.  We waited, and waited, and waited, and waited!  It took over 20 minutes to finally arrive!  This was a Wednesday night around 7pm. 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Cranley's plan all along.  Make it so inconvenient that no one wants to ride it, then throw up your hands and say "see, told you so." 

I am a long time supporter of this system and campaigned with the rest of you to make this a reality, but this system IS GOING TO FAIL miserably if they don't immediately find a solution to the wait times.  No one wants to wait more than 10 minutes to get on a streetcar.  That should be the maximum amount of time anyone should wait IMO.  Waiting any longer than that is pointless because most places downtown can be walked to in 15 minutes or less, unless you're literally walking from the Banks to Findlay Mkt.

 

The usual suspects are going crazy with this ridership data on The Enquirer's politics page.  None are taking any of these temporary and fixable issues into account, nor are any aware of any of the new construction and rehabs on almost every block along the streetcar route in long-desolate Over-the-Rhine. 

 

 

 

 

^ They will, once again, get out over their skis in their criticism of the streetcar.

Yeah, when I saw the headline I didn't even click on the article because I didn't want to read the comments or give the enquirer extra clicks.

 

I don't ride the streetcar often because, frankly, I don't go out that much these days, but the last few times I have used it the wait was a joke.  I was out with my family the day before Thxgiving and we went to dinner at Taqueria Mercado on 8th and Walnut.  After dinner we thought it would be fun to hop on a streetcar and ride up to OTR to go to a bar.  We walked over to the stop at 7th and Walnut  We looked at the sign and the estimated wait was 20 minutes!  I wanted to wait regardless just to see if it really would take that long, but 2 of my family members said "screw that I'm walking" and just walked.  We waited, and waited, and waited, and waited!  It took over 20 minutes to finally arrive!  This was a Wednesday night around 7pm. 

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this was Cranley's plan all along.  Make it so inconvenient that no one wants to ride it, then throw up your hands and say "see, told you so." 

I am a long time supporter of this system and campaigned with the rest of you to make this a reality, but this system IS GOING TO FAIL miserably if they don't immediately find a solution to the wait times.  No one wants to wait more than 10 minutes to get on a streetcar.  That should be the maximum amount of time anyone should wait IMO.  Waiting any longer than that is pointless because most places downtown can be walked to in 15 minutes or less, unless you're literally walking from the Banks to Findlay Mkt.

 

The usual suspects are going crazy with this ridership data on The Enquirer's politics page.  None are taking any of these temporary and fixable issues into account, nor are any aware of any of the new construction and rehabs on almost every block along the streetcar route in long-desolate Over-the-Rhine. 

 

 

 

 

^ They will, once again, get out over their skis in their criticism of the streetcar.

You might be reading "fake news" when a headline states "Streetcar ridership numbers way short of projections" and then a paragraph into the article you find out that actually "Overall, ridership is 53 percent above expectations."

But aren't overall numbers up because of the inflated first week ridership?

But aren't overall numbers up because of the inflated first week ridership?

 

They were running five streetcars and was free on the opening weekend.  They haven't run more than three since, except for Oktoberfest when I believe they ran four. 

 

If the real-time arrival signs were working, we had some signal prioritization, and they were running four streetcars peak and three off-peak, ridership would be much higher.  If Qualls had been elected mayor, that would be happening. 

 

 

 

Praise the Lord someone at SORTA has finally figured out how to turn off the "real time tracking" signs. This alone will give ridership a bump.

 

 

 

Don't you think it is reasonable that the users should at least have to pay something. For such a limited service area, it would be unfair to tax the entire city for what only a small portion of the city can truly benefit from.

 

Doesn't this describe nearly every residential street in the city?

 

Shall we install the toll machines tomorrow?

I'd also argue that the street car is irrelevant because it serves no purpose outside of big game days/festivals & events.

 

The few residents who actually live in the CBD/OTR may use it for work. I suspect the street car is most popular for CBD workers who want to use it for lunch gatherings in OTR. But I'm sure the wait time might make them say screw it all together and just eat somewhere nearby within a minute or so walking distance.

 

It was a HUGE missed opportunity not to extend this to UC. This could have easily been a hit with the students who enjoy drinking/eating in OTR but didn't have a car/or didn't use there car much. Same goes for the opportunity of perhaps creating a new sector of student housing in OTR as well. Not to mention attracting new possibilities of residents in OTR for the professors and the doctors who work uptown.

 

Right now, your basically catering to two crowds. The 1st crowd are people who actually live and work in the urban core. The 2nd crowd are the suburban tourists who come maybe once a weekend. The problem with this is that our urban core population is a ghost town (seriously just drive around downtown around 5pm when all the workers leave for home, and our downtown is so dead. Yes, it's winter, but that doesn't stop from other major cities to keep bustling during the cold). So your really catering to a select niche crowd.

 

The 2nd crowd your catering to have no use for the street car. The people who go to the banks don't normally care for OTR. An the people who go to OTR normally don't care for the banks. Add to the fact that the banks at it's current state is a major flop. There is no real draw. No real entertainment district aside from a couple of bars and restaurants. It's just, there more or less.

 

The people who want to go to OTR willl easily find there nearest parking garage like the Washington Park garage, park there car, walk a few blocks over to Vine St and sit down and eat, and drive back home.

 

The people who want to go to Findley Market will park in the nearby parking lot. Get out of their car. Shop and eat, and go home.

 

Adding the fact that the wait times are horrid doesn't help either. The street car right now, for the majority of people, is utterly pointless and useless (outside of major game days or events/festivals).

 

Unless we connect this to Newport/Covington and UC I believe this project will be a massive failure. This needs to cater to more areas. Right now, the biggest supporter of the street car at one time, agrees with the masses, this current route (and the system and it's wait times) is just pointless.

^There is some truth in what you say, but as for downtown being a "ghost town" at 5:00 p.m. compared to other cities, I'm not sure who you are comparing it to.  New York?  Chicago?  Sure.  But as compared to what I would consider Cincinnati's peer cities, we're not any worse (and I'd say probably ahead of the curve in terms of CBD activity in the evening). 

I'd also argue that the street car is irrelevant because it serves no purpose outside of big game days/festivals & events.

 

I'd argue that highways are irrelevant at 3am because no one is using them at that time! Lets roll them up!

 

The few residents who actually live in the CBD/OTR may use it for work. I suspect the street car is most popular for CBD workers who want to use it for lunch gatherings in OTR. But I'm sure the wait time might make them say screw it all together and just eat somewhere nearby within a minute or so walking distance.

Just over 13,000 residents in downtown and OTR must be your definition of few. Okay...

 

It was a HUGE missed opportunity not to extend this to UC. This could have easily been a hit with the students who enjoy drinking/eating in OTR but didn't have a car/or didn't use there car much. Same goes for the opportunity of perhaps creating a new sector of student housing in OTR as well. Not to mention attracting new possibilities of residents in OTR for the professors and the doctors who work uptown.

Sure. And it was going to get extended until the $$ was pulled by Kasich meddling with the TRAC board.

 

Right now, your basically catering to two crowds. The 1st crowd are people who actually live and work in the urban core. The 2nd crowd are the suburban tourists who come maybe once a weekend. The problem with this is that our urban core population is a ghost town (seriously just drive around downtown around 5pm when all the workers leave for home, and our downtown is so dead. Yes, it's winter, but that doesn't stop from other major cities to keep bustling during the cold). So your really catering to a select niche crowd.

I wouldn't call out two crowds and say its one niche crowd. We were getting tourists before the streetcar opened. Now that it is open, their reach is extended. Its the easiest way to hit many of the attractions in downtown. Sure, currently the population directly along the route is not maximized however that will change in a couple of years as the Model development at Findlay, 8th and Sycamore and others come online. This is a 40 year investment. It doesn't make sense to give up in year 0.3.

 

The 2nd crowd your catering to have no use for the street car. The people who go to the banks don't normally care for OTR. An the people who go to OTR normally don't care for the banks. Add to the fact that the banks at it's current state is a major flop. There is no real draw. No real entertainment district aside from a couple of bars and restaurants. It's just, there more or less.

Sure, and this may change with GE opening in the development. The Banks has yet to "mature" into something other than an entertainment district.

 

The people who want to go to OTR willl easily find there nearest parking garage like the Washington Park garage, park there car, walk a few blocks over to Vine St and sit down and eat, and drive back home.

Yeah sure there are people like that. You'd really have to go to Vine street and then want to go to something else on the line. Eat dinner at Senate, take in a show at the Aronoff. Most people try to combine trips and once a car is in the garage thats a sunk cost. Budget minded people are not going to park in the garage, eat, then drive their car to another garage to pay again.

 

The people who want to go to Findley Market will park in the nearby parking lot. Get out of their car. Shop and eat, and go home.

See above.

 

Adding the fact that the wait times are horrid doesn't help either. The street car right now, for the majority of people, is utterly pointless and useless (outside of major game days or events/festivals).

I wouldn't go that far. Its useful when it is timely. This is why we need the signal study and retiming.

 

Unless we connect this to Newport/Covington and UC I believe this project will be a massive failure. This needs to cater to more areas. Right now, the biggest supporter of the street car at one time, agrees with the masses, this current route (and the system and it's wait times) is just pointless.

So what do you suggest we do about it? We spent about $150 million to build it and countless years studying it and advocating for it.

 

Its our responsibility, as a city to figure out ways to make this work. Instead we are still squabbling over whether its a failure or not. Get over it. It's here to stay, lets make it work. If you want it to expand to UC, then you have to help make the "pointless" loop work better.

 

^There is some truth in what you say, but as for downtown being a "ghost town" at 5:00 p.m. compared to other cities, I'm not sure who you are comparing it to.  New York?  Chicago?  Sure.  But as compared to what I would consider Cincinnati's peer cities, we're not any worse (and I'd say probably ahead of the curve in terms of CBD activity in the evening). 

 

I remember walking around downtown on a workday in 2007 and people literally disappeared at 5pm. It was bizarre. Does that still happen? Sure, but the pedestrian count is improving. Not "bustling urban center" yet, but not "ghost town abandoned" either.

I'd also argue that the street car is irrelevant because it serves no purpose outside of big game days/festivals & events.

 

I'd argue that highways are irrelevant at 3am because no one is using them at that time! Lets roll them up!

 

The few residents who actually live in the CBD/OTR may use it for work. I suspect the street car is most popular for CBD workers who want to use it for lunch gatherings in OTR. But I'm sure the wait time might make them say screw it all together and just eat somewhere nearby within a minute or so walking distance.

Just over 13,000 residents in downtown and OTR must be your definition of few. Okay...

 

It was a HUGE missed opportunity not to extend this to UC. This could have easily been a hit with the students who enjoy drinking/eating in OTR but didn't have a car/or didn't use there car much. Same goes for the opportunity of perhaps creating a new sector of student housing in OTR as well. Not to mention attracting new possibilities of residents in OTR for the professors and the doctors who work uptown.

Sure. And it was going to get extended until the $$ was pulled by Kasich meddling with the TRAC board.

 

Right now, your basically catering to two crowds. The 1st crowd are people who actually live and work in the urban core. The 2nd crowd are the suburban tourists who come maybe once a weekend. The problem with this is that our urban core population is a ghost town (seriously just drive around downtown around 5pm when all the workers leave for home, and our downtown is so dead. Yes, it's winter, but that doesn't stop from other major cities to keep bustling during the cold). So your really catering to a select niche crowd.

I wouldn't call out two crowds and say its one niche crowd. We were getting tourists before the streetcar opened. Now that it is open, their reach is extended. Its the easiest way to hit many of the attractions in downtown. Sure, currently the population directly along the route is not maximized however that will change in a couple of years as the Model development at Findlay, 8th and Sycamore and others come online. This is a 40 year investment. It doesn't make sense to give up in year 0.3.

 

The 2nd crowd your catering to have no use for the street car. The people who go to the banks don't normally care for OTR. An the people who go to OTR normally don't care for the banks. Add to the fact that the banks at it's current state is a major flop. There is no real draw. No real entertainment district aside from a couple of bars and restaurants. It's just, there more or less.

Sure, and this may change with GE opening in the development. The Banks has yet to "mature" into something other than an entertainment district.

 

The people who want to go to OTR willl easily find there nearest parking garage like the Washington Park garage, park there car, walk a few blocks over to Vine St and sit down and eat, and drive back home.

Yeah sure there are people like that. You'd really have to go to Vine street and then want to go to something else on the line. Eat dinner at Senate, take in a show at the Aronoff. Most people try to combine trips and once a car is in the garage thats a sunk cost. Budget minded people are not going to park in the garage, eat, then drive their car to another garage to pay again.

 

The people who want to go to Findley Market will park in the nearby parking lot. Get out of their car. Shop and eat, and go home.

See above.

 

Adding the fact that the wait times are horrid doesn't help either. The street car right now, for the majority of people, is utterly pointless and useless (outside of major game days or events/festivals).

I wouldn't go that far. Its useful when it is timely. This is why we need the signal study and retiming.

 

Unless we connect this to Newport/Covington and UC I believe this project will be a massive failure. This needs to cater to more areas. Right now, the biggest supporter of the street car at one time, agrees with the masses, this current route (and the system and it's wait times) is just pointless.

So what do you suggest we do about it? We spent about $150 million to build it and countless years studying it and advocating for it.

 

Its our responsibility, as a city to figure out ways to make this work. Instead we are still squabbling over whether its a failure or not. Get over it. It's here to stay, lets make it work. If you want it to expand to UC, then you have to help make the "pointless" loop work better.

 

 

  ^ Excellent. Important to call BS on stuff like this

Meanwhile, over in Kansas City, they're talking about expansion plans and the amount of development happening along its route.  Cincinnati talks about how many accidents it's been in.  Progressive thought has yet to reach Ohio when it comes to urban thought.

 

In Kansas City the rides are free. That also helps to inflate ridership. 2000 people per day paying $1 per ride is better than 4000 people per day riding free

 

 

Kansas City has a special taxing district that pays for streetcar operations.  Here the casino revenues were going to pay for the streetcar until Cranley was elected and intentionally screwed up everything.  Truthfully the city could easily pay for free streetcar rides out of the general fund but COAST, etc., would go absolutely nuts. 

 

 

Don't you think it is reasonable that the users should at least have to pay something. For such a limited service area, it would be unfair to tax the entire city for what only a small portion of the city can truly benefit from.

 

A $1 fare is not expensive but it adds friction to the process of riding. It makes people spend 45 extra seconds at the fare box or using Metro's app.

 

Anybody who works with analytics knows that adding a single extra step to a checkout process will result in more people abandoning the transaction. Every second that you add to a website's loading time results in some percentage of people saying "screw it" and leaving.

 

So if we want people to actually ride the streetcar, spend more money at businesses along the route, we should make riding as easy as possible.

 

Kansas City didn't even buy fare boxes so they saved a couple of million dollars in capital costs up front.

 

We want people to ride the streetcar but it also has to be economically feasible. Budweiser wants people to drink their beer too, but it is not giving that away for free.

A public service is not equivalent and should not be compared to a beer company. Better comparisons would be roads, trash collection, etc.

Keep in mind that 22% of all streets in Cincinnati are dead-ends.

^There's a guy on Youtube who goes in and investigates those dead ends, why they are dead, where they used to connect and all that on his bicycle. He does NKY as well.

Link?

Tim Brown? He's a riot.

 

Also, pooing is cool.

 

--

 

neilworms[/member] : http://www.bunkerblast.info/roadpics/

I've always thought the notion that business people would ride the streetcar at lunch time was a bit spurious. The streetcar is a North-South circulator, and the vast majority of CBD activity (offices, restaurants, services, etc) are clustered between 3rd and 7the Streets.  With the small blocks we have, it's really nothing to walk 4 blocks.  If you're on the southern end of that zone, getting to the Banks is easy, and if you're on the northern end of that zone, getting to Court street and other parts of the northern CBD is easy too. Most people don't have time to go from the CBD to Findlay Market or OTR for lunch, so that leaves very few weekday daytime users. I've always worried about this aspect of the streetcar. It just doesn't seem to go far enough to make sense for the vast majority of trips people will be taking. Waiting 20 minutes (or even really 10) for a streetcar to take you ~5-6 blocks just doesn't make sense, when the walk time would be much less than just the waiting time.

^It would work well for those business types during lunch if they had a 100% accurate, real time arrival screen for people to look at in their office and take their break 5 minutes before it arrives, go eat for 30 mins, and hop back on when it is ready to arrive again. 

 

I was thinking about this, it's almost as if they got the streetcar finished, everything, then were just like OK drivers just go ahead and drive around now!

I think some of the people here are missing the larger point here, which is that a lot of people love the streetcar. Even with all of the flaws (which are fixable) people are going out of their way to ride it. They are making more trips to the urban core which means there're spending more money here and adding more life to our streets, which were two of the primary goals of this project. Now, if we can make it more reliable and faster with signal priority, and get the real-time GPS data working, we will win over more people who aren't necessarily "streetcar lovers" but would take it when it makes sense for them.

 

I also can't overstate how important it is for the city and Metro to implement a monthly streetcar pass. I have been out of town most of this month for work so I'm not at home to ride the streetcar. But if Metro offered the option, I would have a streetcar pass on auto-renew and happily paying more than my fair share towards operating expenses.

I used to work next to a subway station in Boston and we very rarely did anything other than walk to nearby restaurants.  People don't go far from their office for lunch, streetcar or no streetcar, but people will ride it to meet people at a bar or restaurant in another neighborhood after work. 

Lunches in the USA are too short for exploration. You don't want to try something new when the clock is ticking or deal with some weird ordering protocol that all these fast-causal places seem to have.

I've always thought the notion that business people would ride the streetcar at lunch time was a bit spurious. The streetcar is a North-South circulator, and the vast majority of CBD activity (offices, restaurants, services, etc) are clustered between 3rd and 7the Streets.  With the small blocks we have, it's really nothing to walk 4 blocks.  If you're on the southern end of that zone, getting to the Banks is easy, and if you're on the northern end of that zone, getting to Court street and other parts of the northern CBD is easy too. Most people don't have time to go from the CBD to Findlay Market or OTR for lunch, so that leaves very few weekday daytime users. I've always worried about this aspect of the streetcar. It just doesn't seem to go far enough to make sense for the vast majority of trips people will be taking. Waiting 20 minutes (or even really 10) for a streetcar to take you ~5-6 blocks just doesn't make sense, when the walk time would be much less than just the waiting time.

 

First of all, 5th and Main is the centroid of the office district, where most downtowners work. The center of lunchtime dining in OTR is 13th and Vine. That's not 5-6 blocks, that's 10 blocks, roughly a mile.

 

Second, people are definitely using it to go to lunch. I took it to Findlay today @ Noon, and several people got off there to go to lunch.

 

Sorry this doesn't comport with your "thought" on this.

Why so defensive? I've been a huge supporter of the project since day 1, so you can miss me with the attitude.

 

The numbers don't lie. Your anecdote aside, weekday usage is poor and it's declining. The vast majority of office workers don't have time to go to a sit down restaurant at lunch. Even fewer have time to travel the 10 blocks (by foot or streetcar) and then go to a sit down restaurant, which is essentially all that Vine in OTR has. People will walk a few blocks from their office to grab something to eat at the myriad of fast, office worker oriented types of places in the CBD, mostly south of 6th. After work, it would seem to be a much more popular way to get around. Leave your car where it's parked and go up to OTR for happy hour? Sounds great, and I do think this will become a popular time for people to ride the streetcar. The repopulation of OTR should help with morning ridership, assuming those folks moving in work in the eastern CBD. I think ridership will build, especially as (if) the system works out some of the operational kinks.

The lack of signal prioritization is bad

The vast majority of office workers don't have time to go to a sit down restaurant at lunch. Even fewer have time to travel the 10 blocks (by foot or streetcar) and then go to a sit down restaurant, which is essentially all that Vine in OTR has.

 

Do most of the OTR restaurants offer carryout?  If I worked in the CBD, I would definitely order takeout from somewhere like Senate or Bakersfield, then hop on the streetcar, pick it up, and then hop back on to head back to the office.

Funny how somewhat lower weekday ridership but robust weekend and event ridership after just three months of operations and thus not much time for people to move jobs/homes/etc. constitutes a "massive failure." 

"I want to move closer to the streetcar but my lease isn't up yet." - dude