Per Metro's press release...

 

Friday May 26: 2,709

Saturday May 27: 5,010

Sunday May 28: 3,215

Monday May 29: 2,479

 

 

 

 

Kansas City

 

Friday May 26: 9,206

Saturday May 27: 10,729

Sunday May 28: 13,704

Monday May 29: 5,553

^I'm not panicking about it.  Numbers will continue to grow, it hit a low but will keep moving up.  We need more of these big projects downtown for apartments to get online.  There is a lot of stuff going on around the line that is going to continue to pick up numbers, especially as the area around Findlay Market starts to re-populate, and then the big downtown projects like 309 Vine and the other stuff possibly coming around on 4th Street, it's going to move up.

 

Wasn't the deal always 3,100 ppl per day average, even say 10 years from now?  3 years from now I bet it will hit that mark consistently and 10 years from now it could be 5,000 per day with all the added residents at that time, which will push it through the tunnel to uptown with the help of a new president who actually cares about the common people

I think the goal was 3,100/day average after the second year of operating? They knew it would likely have an adjustment period in which ridership is lesser until people integrate it into their daily routine which makes sense.

 

It would still be great if it could be free. If ridership-induced development and spending is the goal (which it is) then the small amount collected from fares could be offset by increased ridership. It would be so much easier if people could just hop on and off without paying.

I know a lot of downtown/OTR residents avoid Taste like the plague and hang out in other neighborhoods. That may have had an impact on the ridership numbers vs. Oktoberfest. Also keep in mind that Oktoberfest happened right after the system opened so a lot of people were just checking out the new thing.

 

Ideally the Chamber and the city could partner to pay Metro/Transdev and make the system free during both of those events.

Why would folks living in Downtown and OTR avoid Taste 'like the plague'? That makes zero sense to me.

The downtown crowd isn't exactly Taste's market. It's the same obnoxious crowd that goes to Oktoberfest, but it revolves around eating "small plates" from local restaurants which IMO isnt that appealing when you're surrounded by those same restaurants at Taste on a daily basis and not making the trip down from Applebeesland for a day to try "tasting menus".

Why would folks living in Downtown and OTR avoid Taste 'like the plague'? That makes zero sense to me.

 

Most people I know have always thought of it as "suburbanites gone wild"

Taste is stupid, plain and simple. Walk on hot asphalt, stand in lines, get tiny plates of food on paper plates, and eat while standing and being jostled by a crowd.  What exactly is the attraction?

when I was a kid living in the south chicago suburbs, we'd venture into the big city a few times a year for events. One would always be "Taste of Chicago" held on Navy Pier. Navy Pier is a, well, pier - a long narrow street, basically, that juts into Lake Michigan.

 

In retrospect it was awful. Same as Taste here. But at the time we loved it. It was such a "city thing" and a big difference from our ordinary days.

Why would folks living in Downtown and OTR avoid Taste 'like the plague'? That makes zero sense to me.

 

Most people I know have always thought of it as "suburbanites gone wild"

 

Right. Taste (and to some extent Oktoberfest) are days where downtown is jam packed full of people. For many people who live in Cincinnati's suburbs, it might be the one day per year that they actually come downtown. It's wall to wall people, it's hot, there are loud cover bands playing everywhere, and you stand in 15 minutes to buy small portions of food.

Why would folks living in Downtown and OTR avoid Taste 'like the plague'? That makes zero sense to me.

 

Most people I know have always thought of it as "suburbanites gone wild"

 

Right. Taste (and to some extent Oktoberfest) are days where downtown is jam packed full of people. For many people who live in Cincinnati's suburbs, it might be the one day per year that they actually come downtown. It's wall to wall people, it's hot, there are loud cover bands playing everywhere, and you stand in 15 minutes to buy small portions of food.

 

Really, the portions aren't even that small these days.  You can only try two or three things before you're filled up.  As mentioned earlier, you might as well just go to the restaurants.

wow, that's really amazing that Taste of Cincinnati attracts over half a million people. I think the biggest outdoor food event in New York--which I believe is the 9th Avenue Food Festival in Hell's Kitchen the weekend before Memorial Day--gets about that many people. But I can't help but point out the hypocrisy. Everyone wants big events with tons of people to come downtown (whether it's the 3C's or other cities), but then complain that it's just a bunch of suburbanites ruining the "urban" ambiance. Similarly when boosters of their particular city like to boast of the population statistics of their metro area, then deride the very suburban residents who make up more than half the people as a bunch of narrow-minded hicks.

I have lived downtown for years and I go to these events. Yes, a lot of the people are from the surrounding areas or tourists from other cities/states, but I think that's a good thing. Many people who live in the suburbs haven't been downtown in years. If an event like "Taste" might make them finally come down and see the transformations happening in the urban core, that's a good thing. Maybe they'll come back without the event at some other time. Maybe they'll take the streetcar. Even if it's only 5% of those who come down, it's still a win. Too many people who live in the periphery still have the idea of what downtown was in 2001.

I think the complaint isn't so much that "downtown dwellers don't want suburbanites coming to their neighborhood", it's that they come in and go out for the one event and trash other peoples' home without really going out and patronizing the neighborhood. They eat, make a mess of Fifth Street, and then leave never to think about downtown until next year or until Oktoberfest. It's a different crowd than if that crowd actually dispersed throughout the basin and would spend some time at Smale and then maybe go up the Carew Tower and ride over to Rhinegeist before getting dinner at Senate. I do agree that it's a pretty fine line though, and honestly it's kind of impossible to try and demonized an event or group of people so large that will be filled with many different sorts of folks with different motives for visiting. As Josh said, even a tiny bit of exposure can be a good thing.

If speculation regarding the proposed soccer stadium stays in the news all summer and fall (attracts the ire of COAST, etc.), it will take the media's attention away from the streetcar.  if the Lindners really want to, they could maneuver this soccer stadium saga in such a way as to screw with Cranley, assuming they want him gone. 

I think the complaint isn't so much that "downtown dwellers don't want suburbanites coming to their neighborhood", it's that they come in and go out for the one event and trash other peoples' home without really going out and patronizing the neighborhood. They eat, make a mess of Fifth Street, and then leave never to think about downtown until next year or until Oktoberfest. It's a different crowd than if that crowd actually dispersed throughout the basin and would spend some time at Smale and then maybe go up the Carew Tower and ride over to Rhinegeist before getting dinner at Senate. I do agree that it's a pretty fine line though, and honestly it's kind of impossible to try and demonized an event or group of people so large that will be filled with many different sorts of folks with different motives for visiting. As Josh said, even a tiny bit of exposure can be a good thing.

 

That's funny. It happens in every city! After moving to CLE I even feel the same way about suburbanites/exurbanites taking the train into downtown and littering the streets while they're at Cav's games at nearby bars/restaurants during the  NBA finals, leaving the whole place a trashy mess. It's not their day-to-day stomping grounds so they don't give a sh!t. They don't have to deal with it the next day.

 

I was talking to a woman up here who was purely in Cleveland on business, as her company just opened a new location up here -- a large grocery store concept. When she mentioned she was from Cincinnati, we really hit it off and were talking about all things Cincinnati for probably 45 minutes. She obviously had a lot of hometown pride and with how nostalgic I am for Cincinnati, I'm hard pressed to shut up about it it made for a lot of interesting conversation that I fueled.

 

I found out she's a west-sider, though. She lives in Delhi. I also lived on the west side for a while and know how narrow-minded and set in their ways, west siders can be. I brought up the street car with a lot of enthusiasm and asked her how that was going and spoke of what all I knew of the project and what all it has done for OTR and asked if she had a chance to take it yet. She said she hadn't ridden it and just immediately went on about all the 'controversy surrounding it.' This was only about a month and a half ago! I thought that so weird; it seems like a complete success and I'm convinced it is. But it seems like a lot of west-siders still aren't receptive to the idea for some reason and maybe still don't go downtown much and are oblivious to the obvious dramatic and positive changes that the street car has caused for OTR and Downtown. It's weird that ten years later, certain people still just don't get it.

 

Do a lot of people still compare Cincinnati to Detroit, avoid downtown and OTR and think that OTR is skid row?  :wtf: I'm sure it's gotten a lot better in terms of people's perception compared to 2007 when I last lived there but it's unbelievable to me that at this point, there would be any doubt in anyone's mind!

There's still a huge population that believes downtown Cincinnati is in Mad Max conditions. I have a friend (originally from Ghana but has lived in Ohio for 13 years, the past 3 in Cincy) who was told by people at work hat if he should avoid downtown at all costs. They said his car will get broken into, if he tries to take money from an ATM he will get mugged, and to never ever be there past dark. This past Saturday I took him on a walking tour from Smale to Liberty and he loved it. He's already looking into moving downtown into an apartment and is going to be sure to correct the people who say how awful it is. I still can't believe he lived he for 3 years and had no idea what the urban core was actually like due to the negative input from people he figured knew what they were talking about.

To be clear, I'm still glad Taste happens, it's just not for me. I don't live in the direct impact zone of Taste. I'm about a mile north, so it doesn't affect me directly unless I actually go to Taste.

 

In my opinion, Taste should have small bites that are all $2 or something. I would be more likely got to if I could try things from 5 or 6 different places, but instead it's all meals or main courses. I'm not going to go to the chain places like Montgomery Inn, Skyline, or Larosa's. If I really wanted to try something from one of the smaller vendors, I would probably just go to the actual restaurant.

 

That being said, I had family in town from Chicago, and we didn't take them south of Central Parkway or ride the streetcar because they had a similar opinion of events like Taste. It definitely affects the regular riders, but I am surprised the figures weren't better. It does seem that unless there is a Reds game, most Taste visitors don't venture outside of Fifth Street except to park.

Streetcar bosses to city: We need more money

The agency that runs the Cincinnati Bell Connector is asking the city for more streetcar money next year, saying they need to run more streetcars to keep the time between stops at the promised 10 minutes.

 

The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority is requesting a 6 percent increase in the streetcar's budget, or $225,000 more than the $4.2 million allocated to the project this year.  Streetcar planners had originally said it would need an additional $150,000 next year. It's not clear if any extra money would come from taxpayers or other sources.

 

The request comes as the April revenue report, the most recent available, shows a $15,000 operating deficit. That's the first time since the September opening the streetcar has run in the red.

 

Cont

The $225,000 request will consume 0.0006% of the city's annual operating budget. 

can we get a uo former photo thread up on here of the streetcar in action around town?

Kroger announces a new building grocery store & apartment tower at Central Parkway & Walnut and cites the streetcar as one of the motivating factors for choosing that site:

 

“You have Over-the-Rhine. You have downtown. You have a location that’s an easy traffic pattern to get to. It’s along the streetcar line. It brings a lot of pieces together,” McMullen said. “To me, it’s really building on all of the things the city has done.”

 

Expect more cognitive dissonance from the streetcar haters who will keep saying it's having no impact on development within the city...

I was trying to help a grandfather and his little grandson get on the streetcar yesterday to do a loop before the Reds game and it was a complete disaster.  The machines are still extremely difficult to use and if you use a credit card it rarely works.  After waiting almost four minutes for the machine to accept his credit card (kept saying "processing") the grandfather finally just gave up.  I'm not sure why at this point we haven't gotten our money back for the machines and real-time notification system since neither seems to really work.

Kroger announces a new building grocery store & apartment tower at Central Parkway & Walnut and cites the streetcar as one of the motivating factors for choosing that site:

 

“You have Over-the-Rhine. You have downtown. You have a location that’s an easy traffic pattern to get to. It’s along the streetcar line. It brings a lot of pieces together,” McMullen said. “To me, it’s really building on all of the things the city has done.”

 

Expect more cognitive dissonance from the streetcar haters who will keep saying it's having no impact on development within the city...

 

 

 

Cranley wanted the 40s-and-ramen Vine St. Kroger to last forever.

I was trying to help a grandfather and his little grandson get on the streetcar yesterday to do a loop before the Reds game and it was a complete disaster.  The machines are still extremely difficult to use and if you use a credit card it rarely works.  After waiting almost four minutes for the machine to accept his credit card (kept saying "processing") the grandfather finally just gave up.  I'm not sure why at this point we haven't gotten our money back for the machines and real-time notification system since neither seems to really work.

 

At least part of the high ridership in KC can be attributed to having none of these problems. 

 

The Banks, I believe, is the only stop with two kiosks.  It might cost $1 million to put a second kiosk at every station, but it might be worth it. 

 

I was trying to help a grandfather and his little grandson get on the streetcar yesterday to do a loop before the Reds game and it was a complete disaster.  The machines are still extremely difficult to use and if you use a credit card it rarely works.  After waiting almost four minutes for the machine to accept his credit card (kept saying "processing") the grandfather finally just gave up.  I'm not sure why at this point we haven't gotten our money back for the machines and real-time notification system since neither seems to really work.

 

At least part of the high ridership in KC can be attributed to having none of these problems. 

 

The Banks, I believe, is the only stop with two kiosks.  It might cost $1 million to put a second kiosk at every station, but it might be worth it. 

 

I just think if they get machines that actually work that might solve the majority of the issues.

What I'm hearing is that basically many of the remaining streetcar issues (TVMs having credit card issues, real time arrival signs not being accurate) are due to poor connectivity. The city value-engineered the streetcar project and opted for cheaper wireless systems rather than more expensive hard-wired ones. And we are now paying the price.

What I'm hearing is that basically many of the remaining streetcar issues (TVMs having credit card issues, real time arrival signs not being accurate) are due to poor connectivity. The city value-engineered the streetcar project and opted for cheaper wireless systems rather than more expensive hard-wired ones. And we are now paying the price.

 

upgrade the wireless systems...hellooooo....Cincinnati Bell Connector????  A streetcar named Irony...

^totally agree with all of the comments above.  The ticketing machines, especially when using a credit card are a disaster. The idea for a circulator route is that you can quickly hop on and hop off, but too many times people see the train coming down the street and begin a long process of trying to purchase tickets and cannot get it done by the time the streetcar arrives, and end up finding the whole process frustrating. 

 

Of course if you use the app on your smart phone, it is easy, but for tourists and first-time users, the machines are a bad first impression.

Why do we not have the fare machines on the streetcars like they do in Portland?  The ones in Portland are incredibly easy to use.  They only have four buttons on them.

What I'm hearing is that basically many of the remaining streetcar issues (TVMs having credit card issues, real time arrival signs not being accurate) are due to poor connectivity. The city value-engineered the streetcar project and opted for cheaper wireless systems rather than more expensive hard-wired ones. And we are now paying the price.

 

upgrade the wireless systems...hellooooo....Cincinnati Bell Connector????  A streetcar named Irony...

 

Cincinnati Bell wanted to install wifi at the stations and in the streetcars, but the city didn't let them, because they are currently bidding out a wi-fi network that covers the city. So ironically we may end up with a Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable) wifi network covering the city.

Why do we not have the fare machines on the streetcars like they do in Portland?  The ones in Portland are incredibly easy to use.  They only have four buttons on them.

 

That was the original plan. When we were value engineering the system, we cancelled those and instead decided to let Metro install their standard TVMs at each station. I believe the TVMs were funded half by a federal grant and half by Metro, but none of the money came from the city/the streetcar project's budget.

^Haha, Spectrum mailed people so much spam and called people on their cell phones so often last month that nobody paid their bills. They thought that everything that came from them was spam.

What I'm hearing is that basically many of the remaining streetcar issues (TVMs having credit card issues, real time arrival signs not being accurate) are due to poor connectivity. The city value-engineered the streetcar project and opted for cheaper wireless systems rather than more expensive hard-wired ones. And we are now paying the price.

 

upgrade the wireless systems...hellooooo....Cincinnati Bell Connector????  A streetcar named Irony...

 

Cincinnati Bell wanted to install wifi at the stations and in the streetcars, but the city didn't let them, because they are currently bidding out a wi-fi network that covers the city. So ironically we may end up with a Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable) wifi network covering the city.

 

And by currently bidding you mean not bidding on at all and stalling it out forever!

Two things anecdotally in the last two days I've noticed with the Enquirer:

 

1.) On their hit piece (Streetcar Boss - We Need More Money) or whatever it was exactly, they completely changed the story from when it was originally sent out then took it off their front page, showing that it really isn't a budget crisis, it is actually less money than what they originally needed in the contract, and that the funds from the development deal capture tax looks to more than make up for it

 

2.) Today, there was a really good quote from the Kroger CEO from the Bizjournal Cincy mentioning how it is directly on the streetcar line and will connect downtown and OTR.  The Enquirer makes no mention of this quote except for a small note by the author at the end stating "It is on the streetcar line".  I figured the quote came from the presser they had, but maybe it was a one on one with the Bizjournal

^^^Someone at the Enquirer has a sense of humor (and good timing) on the streetcar issue. Haha.

Enquirer's way of saying we didn't complete our research and we rushed an article out (because it was a negative streetcar article and those get clicks!):

 

We did the math on the streetcar budget

 

he Cincinnati Bell Connector won’t run at a deficit next year.

 

A budget request released earlier this week and reported on by The Enquirer was incomplete. It suggested funding woes, but a closer look shows that's not the case.

 

The Enquirer has spent two days since then sorting out streetcar math.

 

Cont

^ They try to blame the city and SORTA for not answering their questions quickly enough, and spend a few paragraphs pointing out that Mann was confused, as if that's an excuse for their misprint. The Enquirer always seems like it's trying to pass the buck like that - it's thinly veiled, here, though. They could have waited for the city to answer questions and confirm there was no deficit, but they didn't, and they published their own incorrect assumptions based on incomplete information. That's entirely on them, IMO.

^Not so long ago, when writers and editors made mistakes like that, they were fired and never worked in journalism again.  During my few years working for papers, we had a writer fired for incorrectly identifying a pair he interviewed for some sort of sci-fi movie club as a couple.  I recall that he said the two were joking around as if they were a couple but because he never asked them and assumed they were he was axed. 

The reporter was called out on this, being told she should have known that VTICA was missing from the revenue figures and would more than make up for it. Her response? Oh of course I knew and I asked the city for those figures but didn't get them in time to include in the print story. Bullshit. And you could also have included the fact that this large revenue source was missing, but still ran with incorrect information anyway.

No one at the Enquirer, to this day, takes the streetcar seriously and will put in the time and effort to consider that, you know, maybe the planners of this thing got most of the details right... and maybe the people running the system know what they're doing, and if we had better leadership in the Mayor's office, the remaining problems could be easily fixed... and maybe people are investing more along the streetcar route because that's where the streetcar goes... and maybe it's not bankrupting the city and resulting in tax increases...

They might understand it, but their core readership doesn't. They tell them what they want to hear first then "fix it" later.

And do we even have a final cost for the MLK interchange?  Where's all the headlines over that?

Get ready to see this all over the blogs where people dont understand how important the permanent nature of the tracks are to driving redevelopment and confidence in urban transportaion. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-4565992/China-unveils-track-train-runs-virtual-rails.html. More, "if it doesnt work we just sell it" and  spend the money on potholes talk too.

Get ready to see this all over the blogs where people dont understand how important the permanent nature of the tracks are to driving redevelopment and confidence in urban transportaion. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-4565992/China-unveils-track-train-runs-virtual-rails.html. More, "if it doesnt work we just sell it" and  spend the money on potholes talk too.

 

Maybe it can race this- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37020906

Cincinnati streetcar maker expected to step up repairs

 

The company that made the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcars is expected to attempt to make more-permanent fixes to problems that have plagued the vehicles, a process that could ramp up in the coming months.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/09/cincinnati-streetcar-maker-expected-to-step-up.html

can we get a uo former photo thread up on here of the streetcar in action around town?

 

From the Central Parkway and Walnut Development thread:

 

More details on the financing for this project

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-twin-tifs-and-a-streetcar-kicker-how-taxpayers-will-finance-the-store

 

"Developers of a Kroger-anchored residential tower are seeking $30.7 million in taxpayer support for the project, including the diversion of about $95,000 a year in property taxes that would otherwise flow to the streetcar, a WCPO analysis shows.

 

Details of the financing plan were not finalized when the Kroger Co. and the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., or 3CDC, announced the $90.5 million project at Court and Walnut streets June 6. City officials and 3CDC are still tinkering with contract terms. But WCPO pieced together the plan in several interviews over the last two weeks.

 

It’s a complicated deal that makes the Kroger store itself the first Downtown development to be exempted from a two-year-old policy requiring tax-break recipients to share 15 percent of their proceeds with the Cincinnati Bell Connector. It also includes some profit-sharing language that enables the city to recover some of its investment if the project exceeds expectations."

City Council needs to reject this deal unless the VTICA money is there. If we start making exemptions and letting developers get out of their obligations, we're going to find out very quickly that the streetcar funding package falls apart.

There's a good discussion happening on Reddit about the streetcar right now. I think we've gotten far enough away from the political football aspect of the streetcar, and people are starting to finally look at it objectively. The consensus in that thread seems to be that it could be much better if the city administration put effort into fixing the problems. I really enjoyed this comment:

 

Just wanted to add something in case someone on Cranley's campaign is reading this: I voted for him last election because I thought there was no way he was going to get the streetcar canceled and I agreed with many of his non-streetcar views. However, he is not fulfilling his duty as mayor by actively obstructing the streetcar and I will absolutely NOT be voting for him in the upcoming election for this reason.