Users have to manually turn URLs into links before posting now. It is no longer automatic.

 

Thanks for the explanation.  Is that something that can be fixed to be automatic?

I don't know, but I would imagine there is just probably a long list of things that need to be put back to the way they were before, and it's probably a lot of work. We can probably start a thread to document suggestions etc.

I've fixed the link, old habits die hard.

Streetcar divorce from the city? Some SORTA board members want to explore what it takes

 

At least three members of the board that runs the local bus system and oversees operations of the Cincinnati Bell Connector want to look at how to sever the relationship with the city of Cincinnati when it comes to the streetcar.

 

Attorney Gary Greenberg, a member of SORTA’s finance committee, asked the agency’s administration to outline what it would take for SORTA to withdraw from the operations and maintenance agreement with the city on the streetcar. Other members of that committee, including Ron Mosby, Daniel St. Charles, and Heidi Black concur with it.

 

Under the agreement, the city owns the streetcar system, SORTA oversees its operations and a third-party contractor, Transdev, runs it on a daily basis.

 

At the board’s regular meeting on Tuesday, the agency’s administration indicated it would prepare a report for the committee. The full SORTA board took no action.

 

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If that were to happen it could set the precedent where the city has its own rail while the county pays for bus service like has been talked about elsewhere on here.

All this would do is push the narrative that the streetcar is a "ride" and not a real form of transportation. Metro should be looking at ways to better integrate the streetcar into its overall system. Instead they are doing the opposite and trying to push it away. Our region never misses an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

It's because Cranley is so shitty.

All this would do is push the narrative that the streetcar is a "ride" and not a real form of transportation. Metro should be looking at ways to better integrate the streetcar into its overall system. Instead they are doing the opposite and trying to push it away. Our region never misses an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

Yeah, but, note that the three board members pushing this were nominated by the last Republican controlled Ham County commission, and their appointments are up January 20.

[move]1000 pages![/move]

[move]1000 pages![/move]

 

We were at about page 880 before the shut-down.  So were the missing pages from 2012-2012(??? date of the last crash ???) recovered?

No comment!

Did the number of posts per page change when the forum was restored?

No comment!

 

So apparently when you type 3 ?'s in a row you get ???

At quick glance, it looks like those missing pages from 2012 may have been restored back into this thread (hence the bump to 1000 pages).

Did the number of posts per page change when the forum was restored?

 

I don't believe so.  It's always been 30 per page, that I remember.

I noticed recently that John Schneider appears to no longer post on here.  He seemed to be such a big contributor on here to this thread, but I don't think he's posted here since January.  Anybody know why that may be?

I noticed recently that John Schneider appears to no longer post on here.  He seemed to be such a big contributor on here to this thread, but I don't think he's posted here since January.  Anybody know why that may be?

 

Not sure. People tend to come and go from this forum as different issues spring up or die down. I'm sure he'll be back next time there's a big debate about streetcar funding or possible extensions.

Overheard a YP couple at Taft's Ale House today talking about how much they would love it if Cincinnati had commuter rail and high speed rail, as they love taking trains when they visit other countries. However they complained that the streetcar is too infrequent, saying, "the city only runs one or two streetcars at a time, so by the time it gets to you, you could have already walked downtown."

 

So while I think the traffic signal retiming is very important, another thing we need to focus on in the coming years is getting more streetcars running. We really need to get a third streetcar running on weekends when demand is highest, and actually plan to have 4-5 cars in service during special events. Even though more money is coming in from VTICA and parking meter revenue, there is no guarantee that the city will actually use that revenue to fund the streetcar. (Remember that Kevin Flynn cut the streetcar's advertising and police/fare inspection budget this year for absolutely no reason, just because he could.) We will need to write council and make sure that this money is actually used for that purpose next time it comes up.

Guessing by the trailer (http://variety.com/2017/film/news/emilio-estevez-the-public-to-open-santa-barbara-international-film-festival-1202631574/) it looks like the streetcar makes a cameo in "The Public", a movie starring Alec Baldwin and Emilio Esteves that was primarily shot in the downtown public library.  I couldn't find a release date for theaters but it is screening at a film festival on Jan 31.   

 

As Omaha ponders a streetcar, Cincinnati looked at as example of how NOT to do it

 

As the city of Omaha, Neb. ponders whether to build a streetcar line,  city leaders and advocates are looking at other cities for lessons.

 

The city that did it right? Kansas City.

 

The city that did it wrong? Cincinnati, according to Omaha.com.

 

Describing the Cincinnati Bell Connector as "the little engine that couldn't," Omaha.com notes the streetcar has fallen short of the ridership predicted, suffering service delays and other headaches.

 

Cont

This sucks Cranley will certainly cite this as a reason not to expand.

I don’t think the streetcar’s shortcomings stem from it not going where people want to go, as the professor from Florida State claims in the article. It hits the majority of points of interest in downtown and OTR, minus the convention center and main hotel area, which is a big omission. I do think a more central and easy to understand loop would have been preferable to what we have now.  A loop using Race and Walnut, or a dedicated lane both directions on Vine probably would have been more successful. KC uses that linear approach, and it seems to serve its purpose well as a pedestrian accelerator. The Cincy streetcar zig zags east-west, gets stuck at way too many lights, cuts across lanes of traffic, has too many stops, and just generally doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do.

 

If the city can find a way to give the streetcar prioritization at traffic signals, that should help. I do think that some stations should be removed for the sake of expedience. Increased development at the poles of the line is also key. The Banks and Findlay Market areas are key sources or ridership, I think, and it sounds like the Findlay area is kind of booming right now, so that’s good news for the streetcar. Make some fixes, speed the thing up, run more streetcars when it’s politically possible so frequency can go up, and let development take root along the line, and the streetcar will prove very successful, I think.

It's also important to remember that if your primary goal is as a development driver, that takes time, so you're not going to see big numbers right at the start.  Could Cincinnati's streetcar be more of a slow burn that ends up surpassing some of these other systems in the long term?  The question then becomes why do some other systems have higher ridership out of the gate?  Is it because of a lack of other viable transportation options that their systems also solved?  Is it SO novel that people take it just because they can even if they don't have to?  Of course no fares is a big one too.  Specifics of the route, schedule, and reliability are certainly factors, which are also multiplied by the fare situation.  How about resistance versus support for larger scale or higher density infill construction?  Strength or weakness of the existing transit system, and the amount of parking, along with the culture that surrounds the availability and use of those transportation resources? 

I dont think the streetcars shortcomings stem from it not going where people want to go, as the professor from Florida State claims in the article. It hits the majority of points of interest in downtown and OTR, minus the convention center and main hotel area, which is a big omission. I do think a more central and easy to understand loop would have been preferable to what we have now.  A loop using Race and Walnut, or a dedicated lane both directions on Vine probably would have been more successful. KC uses that linear approach, and it seems to serve its purpose well as a pedestrian accelerator. The Cincy streetcar zig zags east-west, gets stuck at way too many lights, cuts across lanes of traffic, has too many stops, and just generally do what its supposed to do.

 

If the city can find a way to give the streetcar prioritization at traffic signals, that should help. I do think that some stations should be removed for the sake of expedience. Increased development at the poles of the line is also key. The Banks and Findlay Market areas are key sources or ridership, I think, and it sounds like the Findlay area is kind of booming right now, so thats good news for the streetcar. Make some fixes, speed the thing up, run more streetcars when its politically possible so frequency can go up, and let development take root along the line, and the streetcar will prove very successful, I think.

 

from a ridership perspective, the streetcar really does not touch the key destinations or enough of them. It does not go to the Casino or convention center or all the major hotels. An NKY link would be beneficial too.  There are just not enough key points that spur ridership. In addition, given the fact that with traffic, it crawls, it is easier to walk in most cases. I know when I go to lunch during the day from my office at 5th Street, I would never take the streetcar to the Banks or in my case back from the Banks because it is quicker to walk (and better exercise). If I go to OTR for happy hour, it is sometimes more preferable to walk or move my car if it is going to be a later evening. Also, a quick Uber ride is sometimes more appealing too. Ultimately, from a ridership point, it just does not connect enough people to places of interest. adding some spurs to NKY and up to Clifton and around uptown would remedy this, but this is also pretty expensive for a non-regional transportation plan.

Yeah I agree with edale, a lot of this stuff is fixable, but just no political will right now.  They really need to speed it up somehow in certain spots and get the run times to 10 minutes during peak times. 

 

It seems though as jjakucyk mentioned, it will be a slow burn and IMO as development increases more and more, and we get more jobs downtown in addition to more housing at the poles, then ridership will increase too. 

 

As others have said, it will really be a great option once they fix the issues of speed and reliability by making the tunnel feasible to Uptown and then possibly cut over to MLK and Reading Road intersection.  That way, people who live downtown but work in Uptown can use it, and vice versa, it would make development in between uptown and downtown more feasible in certain areas.

I hate the argument that it doesn't go anywhere, especially when they fail to cite that it got chopped by Kasich and the state funding. The Omaha route from the College World Series stadium, through the old market to the zoo would be 2.7 miles (5.4 round trip). The original streetcar plan from the Banks to the zoo was 3.5 miles (7 round trip).

 

That said I think linear routes are more successful because they are so much simpler to use and understand for users. A linear route in Omaha on 10th street connecting their major tourist attractions would be a great idea.

Attempt to divorce SORTA from Cincinnati streetcar fails

 

A move to try to sever the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority’s management of the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar was killed Tuesday by the agency’s board.

 

Board member Gary Greenberg introduced a motion that attempts to unwind SORTA’s responsibility to manage the streetcar, saying it was a necessary move if the agency is going to convince Hamilton County voters to approve a sales tax levy to bolster the agency’s finances and expand service.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/12/attempt-to-divorce-sorta-from-cincinnatistreetcar.html

Absolutely idiotic article from the enquirer.  I truly believe half of the reason so many people hate the streetcar is because of the constant crapping on it that the enquirer does.

 

PX: 3 ways to change Cincinnati's negative streetcar perception

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics-extra/2017/12/12/px-3-ways-potentially-change-cincinnatis-negative-streetcar-perception/945128001/

The more clicks idiotic articles get, the more idiotic articles will be produced.

Anyone want to save me a click and share what his 3 ways are

1. Let the city run the streetcar.

 

2. Run the streetcar only on weekends, special events.

 

3. Sell a streetcar vehicle or two.

 

It ends with: "PX knows some streetcar backers will take offense to these suggestions. These aren't meant as a slight. But nonetheless, PX will now go stand in the middle of Vine Street and prepare to take on the Streetcar Mafia's predictable social media fire."

More idiotic than I could have imagined.

It's painfully obvious that he is:

 

1) an idiot or

 

2) clearly trolling to get clicks.

 

Either way, it's embarrassing for the Enquirer.

Wow, that's a moronic list.  Totally reaffirms my image of that rag.

1. Let the city run the streetcar.

 

2. Run the streetcar only on weekends, special events.

 

3. Sell a streetcar vehicle or two.

 

It ends with: "PX knows some streetcar backers will take offense to these suggestions. These aren't meant as a slight. But nonetheless, PX will now go stand in the middle of Vine Street and prepare to take on the Streetcar Mafia's predictable social media fire."

 

Letting the city run the streetcar won't save a dime (since they have to spin up and staff up it will almost certainly cost more). Selling two streetcars might net us $2-4 million dollars once, maybe. And running only on the weekends and special events will breach our agreements with the Haile Foundation ($9m), the FTA ($49m), Transdev ($38m) and our advertising contracts (approx $4m). Throw in the fact you'll likely lose most if not all of your staff and have to retrain drivers and mechanics who will have a two day work-week and the flexibility to work other random days that are thrown in, assuming you can find such employees, and you've just spent a lot of money to make streetcar service worse. 

It's painfully obvious that he is:

 

1) an idiot or

 

2) clearly trolling to get clicks.

 

Either way, it's embarrassing for the Enquirer.

 

You should hear him on WVXU.  He just doesn't get it.  He was a sports reporter and has no business doing political reporting.  It would be like assigning the restaurant critic to cover politics or vice verse. 

It's painfully obvious that he is:

 

1) an idiot or

 

2) clearly trolling to get clicks.

 

Either way, it's embarrassing for the Enquirer.

 

It's worth it for the libruhl tears from the trolley mafia!

I would hope he is trolling but by the comments on the articles and more, it isn't unplausible to think he is simply an idiot.

 

I would never let that guy run any of our day to day operations at our business, he wouldn't know how to figure out a landed cost per lb. of product from Europe and would probably sell it at a loss

Ever since he became the Enquirer click-bait politics reporter, coming off of his click-bait streetcar assignment, he has developed this odd habit of referring his thoughts to the inanimate agency "PX" (Politics Extra). Like "PX thinks..." or "PX has heard...". As if "PX" was scouring the landscape for local insights and information, and not just existing wholly within Jason's tiny brain.

^Oh, he's becoming mysterious like "-Ed." from Car and Driver or Rondo Talbot.

I was just in Tucson this past week, and I think their streetcar was successuful. It connects the downtown bar/restaurant area to Arizona University, and even during winter break had pretty good usage.

 

One thing I noticed is that there is actual frequency (theirs was about 8-10 minutes on a weekday), and perceived frequency. Since their streetcar is going both directions on the same street, it felt like streetcars were more frequent, since they were driving by every 4-8 minutes. In Cincinnati, if you are on Walnut, you can't see streetcars going by on Main Street so it feels like they aren't as frequent. Because of this perception issue, even if we get our headways to a consistent 10 minutes, they still won't feel as frequent as on a two way street because they aren't buzzing by going both directions when they are separated by a full city block. Just a thought.

^Ours are so infrequent that if you're standing at the Race St. Washington Park station, you're probably going to have to wait for the one you just saw curve north onto Elm to make it all the way back around. 

Just got word that Earl Clark, Jr. who rode the last streetcar on April 29, 1951 and the first new streetcar on September 9, 2016 passed away this morning at the age of 94. 

Can anyone explain to me why the arrival time and announcement system is still so 5#!^ after all this time?  At least in the mornings the arrival time is only populated about half the time.  Even when it is populated the announcements are more often than not over two stops behind.  I text them all the time to report the issues, but never get a response back and never see an improvement.

Just got word that Earl Clark, Jr. who rode the last streetcar on April 29, 1951 and the first new streetcar on September 9, 2016 passed away this morning at the age of 94. 

 

That's a shame.  A huge amount of knowledge is leaving us when the last of these guys die. 

Can anyone explain to me why the arrival time and announcement system is still so 5#!^ after all this time?  At least in the mornings the arrival time is only populated about half the time.  Even when it is populated the announcements are more often than not over two stops behind.  I text them all the time to report the issues, but never get a response back and never see an improvement.

 

The system is fundamentally flawed because it's based on unreliable radio wave technology. The best way to fix it would be to replace it with a wifi-based or LTE-based system instead. Cincinnati Bell has offered to do this, but the city is dragging its feet because it is trying to bid out a citywide public wifi network. So we may end up with, for example, Spectrum running the wifi network that the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcars use.

^ Is there anything special or more difficult about implementing this on a streetcar versus a bus? Here in Columbus in the last year COTA upgraded their radios to 4G (from T-mobile IIRC), which has dramatically improved the real-time tracking (from ~60 second updates to ~15 seconds) and allowed fleet-wide free wifi to be made available on board all vehicles.

Nope, the technology would be the same whether it's a streetcar or a bus. The only "challenge" I can imagine is that streetcars spend about 50% of their time in the CBD where GPS data is slightly less accurate due to high rise buildings, whereas buses spend a lot more time in less dense areas where GPS data is more accurate. However, the 4G or LTE link should be the same everywhere.

The thing about GPS accuracy downtown is that it should never be off by THAT much.  A few hundred feet at most I would think.  That shouldn't have any bearing on arrival times.  Look at this Strava map of downtown:  https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#15.95/-84.51321/39.10132/bluered/ride  These tracks are mostly from Garmin bike computers and smartphone GPS apps, not dedicated GPS receivers, and they still do a pretty good job staying on the streets.  Walkers and runners are more all over the place, but they can also GO more places, like sidewalks, Fountain Square, inside buildings, plazas, etc.  Downtown Chicago's GPS map is much fuzzier, but it's still not that bad. 

The GPS on my phone always puts me easily within one hundred feet of where I am regardless of the part of downtown I'm at.  It just makes sense that the streetcar would at least be accurate to one block, but it's often many blocks off, or the arrival signs are completely blank.