Former city council member, mayor, and congressman Tom Luken has passed away at age 92. People who have followed the streetcar debate for the past decade may remember Luken as the man who once claimed, at a COAST press conference, that the streetcar project would end up costing the city "2 or 3 billion dollars when Parsons Brinkerhoff is done with it" (the actual cost ended up being around $145 million).

 

Luken wasted much of his career harassing SORTA and calling for the abolishment of OKI.  Just like how Republicans always call for the abolishment of the EPA. 

 

In the 1970s, various cities were awarded huge money for heavy rail transit systems.  Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore.  Cincinnati didn't even apply because Tom Luken was mayor.  20 years later he mentored a teenager from a rich family named John Cranley.  What does Cranely do for a living today?  Harass SORTA, refuse to apply for federal transit grants. 

 

 

 

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

 

So mid-sized cities do not deserve to have high-frequency transit?

 

The circulator bus that runs along Denver's transit mall comes every 1 minute. Yes, every 1 minute.

 

Cities that build high quality, high frequency transit get high ridership. Cities that don't, don't.

Also all of OC17's concerns have been addressed about 50 times in this thread already.

 

Sorry, just haven't been able to read up on a 1,003 page streetcar thread.

 

Close the thread then if it's controversial for anyone to enter the discussion yet the thread continues to update...constantly.  This streetcar thread may be the longest of all the Cinci threads.

 

What I have been enlightened on though is that the lackluster use and national bad press on ''how not to start a streetcar'' is strictly due to political conspiracies and sabotage.

 

 

This thread is THE largest thread on this site. It's going nowhere.

 

As for the other things. Many of the people commenting on these threads have lived through the planning, advocacy, political drama and referendums of the streetcar for years. They are trying to help you. Attacking them and pointless back and forth about your city spelling preferences do not help and may inspire the admins to action.

 

Wouldn't call a post related to ''these OC17 topics have been discussed 50 times in this thread'' helpful.  Because I'm not directly familiar with Cinci,  I can't have a discussion about a Cinci topic that's in the national press; that isn't exactly helpful.

 

The only ''help'' was about using Cincy instead of Cinci; you know, something really integral to the streetcar topic in issue.

 

Still don't know where my ''attacks'' are. 

 

However, this whole thread and streetcar topic were, for me, fully explained when the lead Cinci rail proponent compared the Bell Connectors with Boston and Toronto's systems.

So mid-sized cities do not deserve to have high-frequency transit?

 

The circulator bus that runs along Denver's transit mall comes every 1 minute. Yes, every 1 minute.

 

Cities that build high quality, high frequency transit get high ridership. Cities that don't, don't.

 

Well, this post is generally considered to be a given.  Again, can't compare Denver transit to Cincinnati but not nearly as ridiculous as comparing Cincinnati to Boston and Toronto systems.

The shorter the distance one intends to travel, the higher the frequency needs to be.  An intercity train is not competing with walking or cabs for riders.  A commuter-distance ride is competing with cabs.  A streetcar is competing with cabs and walking.  The frequency must be very high or people with those other options will take them. 

So mid-sized cities do not deserve to have high-frequency transit?

 

The circulator bus that runs along Denver's transit mall comes every 1 minute. Yes, every 1 minute.

 

Cities that build high quality, high frequency transit get high ridership. Cities that don't, don't.

 

Well, this post is generally considered to be a given.  Again, can't compare Denver transit to Cincinnati but not nearly as ridiculous as comparing Cincinnati to Boston and Toronto systems.

 

Okay, so if that comparison still doesn't work for you, how about this one?

 

Columbus recently redesigned their entire bus system to emphasize frequency. Columbus is just the latest in a series of cities, most notably Houston, to do this. The reasoning is simple. Frequency is perhaps the single most important indicator of how successful your transit will be. If transit comes every 30 minutes or less, the only riders will be people that have no other alternative. The more frequent you make your transit, the more people will choose to ride it over other options. If you want more people to ride, increase the frequency. (For circulator routes like the streetcar, increasing speed also increases frequency, since the same vehicles are making loops.)

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

OK, so run more and more frequency on the Connector to handle that eventual commuting crush.

 

Jarrett Walker; what a shock, he's in Portland.  What does Mr. Walker opine on issues related to wearing-out transit vehicles on empty runs?  Does he discuss the cost aspects of repairing, replacing, or upgrading transit equipment and vehicles that will be needed to keep up with the 5 minute frequency ghost-runs?

 

Even with 5 minute frequency, how many riders would be on this thing during an average weekday?  The projected 3,000 or more?

 

Okay, well you seem to be convinced that no matter what changes Cincinnati makes, the Streetcar is a bad idea and will never have any riders, and that Cincinnati does not deserve to have high-quality, high-frequency transit like many of our peer cities have. So I guess there's nothing more that either of us can add to this conversation. Have a good night.

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

OK, so run more and more frequency on the Connector to handle that eventual commuting crush.

 

Jarrett Walker; what a shock, he's in Portland.  What does Mr. Walker opine on issues related to wearing-out transit vehicles on empty runs?  Does he discuss the cost aspects of repairing, replacing, or upgrading transit equipment and vehicles that will be needed to keep up with the 5 minute frequency ghost-runs?

 

Even with 5 minute frequency, how many riders would be on this thing during an average weekday?  The projected 3,000 or more?

 

 

Wearing them out? Wear is very minimal on modern streetcars. They aren't Kias.

Okay, well you seem to be convinced that no matter what changes Cincinnati makes, the Streetcar is a bad idea and will never have any riders, and that Cincinnati does not deserve to have high-quality, high-frequency transit like many of our peer cities have. So I guess there's nothing more that either of us can add to this conversation. Have a good night.

 

Actulaly in my limited appearance here, I promoted extending the streetcar. 

 

I guess you didn't like my Jarrett Walker points and you keep confusing the Connector with transit.

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

OK, so run more and more frequency on the Connector to handle that eventual commuting crush.

 

Jarrett Walker; what a shock, he's in Portland.  What does Mr. Walker opine on issues related to wearing-out transit vehicles on empty runs?  Does he discuss the cost aspects of repairing, replacing, or upgrading transit equipment and vehicles that will be needed to keep up with the 5 minute frequency ghost-runs?

 

Even with 5 minute frequency, how many riders would be on this thing during an average weekday?  The projected 3,000 or more?

 

 

Wearing them out? Wear is very minimal on modern streetcars. They aren't Kias.

 

I guess the ''wearing-out'' issue wouldn't be on the table since there are current operational issues with this modern streetcar. Get the thing running on a regular 12-15 minute frequency first before jumping to 5 minute frequencies. But the wearing-out issue will be on the horizon, especially with every 5 minute ghost-runs.  You'll see.

 

Also, if the Connector wasn't coordinated with ''green lights'', what the hell were people thinking before this thing opened?  It can't even handle 12-15 minute frequency yet. 

 

Good night indeed.

The biggest problem with the streetcar for commuters (or workday lunches) is that it's not reliable. Which has nothing to do with the size or shape of the route. If people could park in a lot and reliably catch a streetcar to their office, we'd see if it catches on with commuters. But currently, for all the reasons listed above, it's simply not reliable when time matters. So it's primarily useful when time doesn't matter as much, i.e. good-weather weekends.

 

How can this streetcar be up and running for 15 months in a one-way loop (3.6 miles) and not be reliable?  It's such a short-run line.  How can this be?

 

Perhaps I keep forgetting about that political conspiracy to destroy a $150 million investment.

 

Maybe I'll ride the Connector on a weekday and will, of course, provide my review.  Until then, get on board your streetcar Cinci.

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nations great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldnt let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

 

Lol, thanks for sharing that. I had friends in from Chicago last month. We went down to the Christmas City Flea. The streetcar was obviously packed that night. I was explaining to them that a lot of people, especially those outside of the city hate the streetcar. It was hard for them to understand why anyone would have such anger towards the project, I should have shown them this letter. I also have a friend from Lexington who visits a few times a year and he always wants to go downtown and ride the streetcar. The streetcar has problems, we all know them and we all know how to fix them. In time they'll be fixed and 5 years from now we'll roll our eyes at all this nonsense and hopefully we'll be ready to talk about expanding it uptown.

^I remember when all the stuff with Cranley's election and the streetcar happening, just how absolutely silly it was and how I just had to laugh about it.  I agree, 5 years from now, it is a non-issue, and hopefully by that time anyways even if some of these things aren't fixed, we'd have a large influx of new jobs, etc. into the city with more redevelopment in OTR and downtown, more riders, and people will finally say, let's elect someone who will fix this simple stuff, and move on.  And build a light rail in the subway and take it to Northside and beyond  8)

The biggest problem with the streetcar for commuters (or workday lunches) is that it's not reliable. Which has nothing to do with the size or shape of the route. If people could park in a lot and reliably catch a streetcar to their office, we'd see if it catches on with commuters. But currently, for all the reasons listed above, it's simply not reliable when time matters. So it's primarily useful when time doesn't matter as much, i.e. good-weather weekends.

 

How can this streetcar be up and running for 15 months in a one-way loop (3.6 miles) and not be reliable?  It's such a short-run line.  How can this be?

 

Perhaps I keep forgetting about that political conspiracy to destroy a $150 million investment.

 

Maybe I'll ride the Connector on a weekday and will, of course, provide my review.  Until then, get on board your streetcar Cinci.

 

There is no excuse for it, other than Cranley's attempt at sabotage. I guess you can call it a conspiracy, but that just sounds like you're throwing shade at the people giving you the explanation, given that word's connotations.

Is it a conspiracy when they're so open about their efforts at sabotage?  It's just like Cranley's declaration that no bike lanes will be maintained.  It's not widely known, but it's not a secret either. 

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

 

Good ol' Clive from Franklin was probably actually Chris Finney or one of the other pathetic Coasters.

Is it a conspiracy when they're so open about their efforts at sabotage?  It's just like Cranley's declaration that no bike lanes will be maintained.  It's not widely known, but it's not a secret either. 

 

 

debris don't lie!

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

 

Did Clive not realize that we had ~250 miles of communist streetcar track that was built by our forefathers? This quote is at the same time hilarious, sad, and deeply disturbing.

 

 

How can this streetcar be up and running for 15 months in a one-way loop (3.6 miles) and not be reliable?  It's such a short-run line.  How can this be?

 

Perhaps I keep forgetting about that political conspiracy to destroy a $150 million investment.

 

Maybe I'll ride the Connector on a weekday and will, of course, provide my review.  Until then, get on board your streetcar Cinci.

 

You got a thread locked in the Cleveland development section with your aggressive and untactful arguing and here you are doing it again.  Aren't you a relative newcomer to this forum?  Perhaps you should debate respectfully and then you wouldn't feel so persecuted.  Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nations great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldnt let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

 

Lol, thanks for sharing that. I had friends in from Chicago last month. We went down to the Christmas City Flea. The streetcar was obviously packed that night. I was explaining to them that a lot of people, especially those outside of the city hate the streetcar. It was hard for them to understand why anyone would have such anger towards the project, I should have shown them this letter. I also have a friend from Lexington who visits a few times a year and he always wants to go downtown and ride the streetcar. The streetcar has problems, we all know them and we all know how to fix them. In time they'll be fixed and 5 years from now we'll roll our eyes at all this nonsense and hopefully we'll be ready to talk about expanding it uptown.

It has been six years since the Enquirer published this incredible letter-to-the-editor:

 

Streetcar is a Communist Idea

 

'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system.

 

Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen.

 

Clive Johnson

 

Franklin

 

We may never know why Mr. Johnson of Franklin, who does not live within and most likely does not work within the City of Cincinnati and therefore does not pay taxes to it, was so concerned about Cincinnati building a streetcar system.

 

There is a person of the same name on facebook from Morrow and after reading his page it is either a put on or we found our man. Pretty funny (and brief) read. Terrell is in BIG trouble if facebook steals his identity!!    https://www.facebook.com/clive.johnsoniii

 

^ Looks fake to me, and the letter reeks of trolling. An image search on the profile pic leads to the "old black man meme" and a bunch of meme generators with that same pic. Signs point to an alt-right 4channer type.

 

Edit: The man in the picture's real name is Jessie Little, and he's from NYC, not Morrow.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/90-year-old-man-vows-payback-punks-captured-camera-mugging-attack-article-1.470307

^ Looks fake to me, and the letter reeks of trolling. An image search on the profile pic leads to the "old black man meme" and a bunch of meme generators with that same pic. Signs point to an alt-right 4channer type.

 

Edit: The man in the picture's real name is Jessie Little, and he's from NYC, not Morrow.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/90-year-old-man-vows-payback-punks-captured-camera-mugging-attack-article-1.470307

 

Glad we got to the bottom of that six year old mystery

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

OK, so run more and more frequency on the Connector to handle that eventual commuting crush.

 

Jarrett Walker; what a shock, he's in Portland.  What does Mr. Walker opine on issues related to wearing-out transit vehicles on empty runs?  Does he discuss the cost aspects of repairing, replacing, or upgrading transit equipment and vehicles that will be needed to keep up with the 5 minute frequency ghost-runs?

 

Even with 5 minute frequency, how many riders would be on this thing during an average weekday?  The projected 3,000 or more?

 

 

Wearing them out? Wear is very minimal on modern streetcars. They aren't Kias.

 

I guess the ''wearing-out'' issue wouldn't be on the table since there are current operational issues with this modern streetcar. Get the thing running on a regular 12-15 minute frequency first before jumping to 5 minute frequencies. But the wearing-out issue will be on the horizon, especially with every 5 minute ghost-runs.  You'll see.

 

Also, if the Connector wasn't coordinated with ''green lights'', what the hell were people thinking before this thing opened?  It can't even handle 12-15 minute frequency yet. 

 

Good night indeed.

 

Just happened to see this tweet:

 

From “Indianapolis Railways: A Complete History...” (J. Marlette).

 

The frequency of service on Indianapolis’s streetcars and trolley buses in 1950 were amazing. College Ave. every 5 minutes, Washington Street every 4 minutes (at peak).

 

I give up using the streetcar unless it's a necessity.  Real time arrival wasn't working at any of the stops this morning, so trudged through the snow in ten degree weather.  About half way to work one of the signs went into a scrolling marque mode at the top to say streetcars arrive every THIRTY minutes.  What exactly is the point of a system that 18 months in is still so plagued with issues?

I give up using the streetcar unless it's a necessity.  Real time arrival wasn't working at any of the stops this morning, so trudged through the snow in ten degree weather.  About half way to work one of the signs went into a scrolling marque mode at the top to say streetcars arrive every THIRTY minutes.  What exactly is the point of a system that 18 months in is still so plagued with issues?

 

That's exactly the response the Cranley administration wants. 

That's exactly the response the Cranley administration wants. 

 

True, but what's the solution.  He's in office for a few years longer now.  I supported the streetcar because of it's value to the community.  Regardless of why the streetcar is a hot mess it is so.  I just can't support something that's been perpetually broken for 18 months.

In the most recent historic conservation board package (Jan 22, 2018), the staff is recommending to deny an application for 1536-1540 Race st (by 3CDC). From the staff analysis:

 

"Eating and Drinking Establishments are a high intensity use with a high parking demand. Staff and the Historic Conservation Board has been consistent in our decisions that parking needs to be managed and that applicants need to work to find solutions to the parking demand that they are creating and only minor variances will be considered. This has been true in both the north and south parts of Over-the-Rhine."

 

and also, incredibly, the streetcar is a net negative:

 

"In the case of this application, the application is on the street car which already reduces the amount of on street parking available."

 

When will Cincinnati Council direct staff to connect the dots between healthy economic development, parking demand, and efficient streetcar operations? When will 3CDC recognize the obvious -- that the streetcar is sitting there waiting to be used to solve a problem that directly impacts their core business?

 

Fix the streetcar and create an efficient parking system along the route utilizing existing assets and strategic new ones. Let's quit this piecemeal crap, looking at each and every project in isolation. It's killing us.

I've noticed the real time info on the Transit App works really well

 

In the most recent historic conservation board package (Jan 22, 2018), the staff is recommending to deny an application for 1536-1540 Race st (by 3CDC). From the staff analysis:

 

"Eating and Drinking Establishments are a high intensity use with a high parking demand. Staff and the Historic Conservation Board has been consistent in our decisions that parking needs to be managed and that applicants need to work to find solutions to the parking demand that they are creating and only minor variances will be considered. This has been true in both the north and south parts of Over-the-Rhine."

 

and also, incredibly, the streetcar is a net negative:

 

"In the case of this application, the application is on the street car which already reduces the amount of on street parking available."

 

When will Cincinnati Council direct staff to connect the dots between healthy economic development, parking demand, and efficient streetcar operations? When will 3CDC recognize the obvious -- that the streetcar is sitting there waiting to be used to solve a problem that directly impacts their core business?

 

Fix the streetcar and create an efficient parking system along the route utilizing existing assets and strategic new ones. Let's quit this piecemeal crap, looking at each and every project in isolation. It's killing us.

 

I read that as well and it is frustrating how many projects get delayed to the point where the financing falls apart or downsized with the reason always being "well there is not enough parking". A small restaurant cannot afford to lease spaces from a private lot owner or somehow magically create spaces that do not exist in a neighborhood that was designed when cars did not exist. I understand there needs to be a balance but are we just going to have buildings sit empty until they fall down because there is not enough parking? The streetcar was supposed to enable patrons to park elsewhere and take transit or walk to the destination thus lessening the zoning restrictions in place.

^^How many people go to OTR and even expect to park anywhere near where they are going anyway?!? I go expecting to leave my car and walk to my destination or if i have more than one stop and it is possible  ill ride the streetcar. We need to make the entireity of the area the destination and not treat each spot as and island like what was said above. What could be the reason the Historic board is doing this anyway? Is it to protect the area or keep it from becoming gridlocked with cars? seems we already have an expensive solution to that problem already and just need to build a parking garage ABOVE the streetcar line somewhere perhaps at the Maintenance Facility as i think Jake suggested and drop the parking requirement entirely, Is there a legal reason they cant drop it or a city policy of some sort stopping this? The historic board should not even weigh in on parking matters anyway ands should focus on the building and its look and use. Let those with a broader view who see the ENTIRE picture work on the 'people moving' issue. Ugh why do we even seem to make our successes into problems.

 

I get the impression that when people go OTR for an evening out they are treating the neighborhood as the destination and not the specific bar/restaurant/event they are going to and generally can understand there is not going to be a parking lot directly in front of where they are going. Having the same zoning restrictions in OTR (and all NBDs in general) is really choking something that should be capitalized on.

HCB really shouldn't be making any decisions based - even partially - on availability of parking. Leave that up to the Planning Commission. It drives me nuts.

^ I think the HCB does this because they have responsibility for not only historic, but also zoning. They are thus hamstrung by the zoning code. Which means, the zoning code needs to be fixed, as part of a systematic approach to economic development of downtown and OTR, which includes transportation and other public infrastructure decisions that solve problems and make the area work.

 

The truly incredible thing is how few people we have on City Council who can, or want to, see the forest and not the trees. You can get the feeling they think that, after decades of decline and neglect, a place like OTR with incredible potential for economic growth, will just fix itself in good time. You know, because the current economic growth conditions we're lucky to have, will just continue forever.

The City's zoning administration has been taking a very hard line on parking over the last few years. Requiring leases to adjacent parking garages or lots as proof to satisfy parking requirements and demands. In most cases, this is the city enforcing its laws better.

 

What is needed is a more holistic parking strategy for the urban basin, one that takes into account the streetcar, RedBike, ride share, Metro and walkablity into account. As it stands right now we are building an urban core that will be more of a suburban and regional entertainment district than a true urban neighborhood. A great place to visit and show tourists but a less attractive place to live.

As it stands right now we are building an urban core that will be more of a suburban and regional entertainment district than a true urban neighborhood. A great place to visit and show tourists but a less attractive place to live.

 

Bingo. It’s a carefully curated “just enough” to show off. But that’s not going to be good enough to keep all these new businesses afloat.

I give up using the streetcar unless it's a necessity.  Real time arrival wasn't working at any of the stops this morning, so trudged through the snow in ten degree weather.  About half way to work one of the signs went into a scrolling marque mode at the top to say streetcars arrive every THIRTY minutes.  What exactly is the point of a system that 18 months in is still so plagued with issues?

 

Apparently the streetcars are getting hit hard by the cold weather. Only one is running right now because the others are all experiencing issues due to the cold weather. The solution is that City Council needs to hold CAF's feet to the fire and get them to fix these mechanical issues.

I give up using the streetcar unless it's a necessity.  Real time arrival wasn't working at any of the stops this morning, so trudged through the snow in ten degree weather.  About half way to work one of the signs went into a scrolling marque mode at the top to say streetcars arrive every THIRTY minutes.  What exactly is the point of a system that 18 months in is still so plagued with issues?

 

Apparently the streetcars are getting hit hard by the cold weather. Only one is running right now because the others are all experiencing issues due to the cold weather. The solution is that City Council needs to hold CAF's feet to the fire and get them to fix these mechanical issues.

 

They've been having various issues with the streetcars for 18 months.  If they haven't done anything by now to hold CAF's feet to the fire it's highly unlikely they ever will.

I mean, expecting the Cranley administration to competently run the streetcar is like expecting the Trump administration to competently run the Affordable Care Act. They're going to neglect it and do everything possible to try to make it fail, and then say, "see, I told you that was a bad idea."

^ I seem to remember reading in a recent article that the City Manager had sent a letter to CAF stating that they need to fix these issues asap.

 

Of all the things that could go wrong with the streetcars, shutting down in cold weather has to be one of the worst things for optics and media narratives. I can just hear people calling into 700 WLW complaining about how the city spent $150 million on a 'transit' system that can't even operate in cold weather. For a new system, these issues are completely absurd.

I sure hope Seattle is paying attention since they just bought CAF streetcars for their new Center City Connector streetcar project.

I mean, expecting the Cranley administration to competently run the streetcar is like expecting the Trump administration to competently run the Affordable Care Act. They're going to neglect it and do everything possible to try to make it fail, and then say, "see, I told you that was a bad idea."

Is not City Council complicit in this neglect? It seems that our system still puts a lot of power in their hands. What can they do, if Cranley can't be expected to initiate anything from the administration side?

Is not City Council complicit in this neglect? It seems that our system still puts a lot of power in their hands. What can they do, if Cranley can't be expected to initiate anything from the administration side?

 

Couldn't agree more. It's one thing to have a mayor with a few allies proclaiming to be against the project, but when the so called "supporters' failed to do anything worthwhile to help, it's even worse. Typical Cincinnati.

I mean, expecting the Cranley administration to competently run the streetcar is like expecting the Trump administration to competently run the Affordable Care Act. They're going to neglect it and do everything possible to try to make it fail, and then say, "see, I told you that was a bad idea."

Is not City Council complicit in this neglect? It seems that our system still puts a lot of power in their hands. What can they do, if Cranley can't be expected to initiate anything from the administration side?

 

Yes, City Council is complicit. For Cranley's first term, we did not have a majority on City Council willing to override Cranley. It's extra ironic that Amy Murray is the one tweeting about streetcar issues today and saying "this is unacceptable" since she was the Chair of the Transportation Committee for four years and was the person with the ability to fix these problems. Hopefully Council will be more willing to override Cranley this term.

I also think it's very telling that the city has outfitted all of the snow plows with GPS trackers and launched a website where people can view the location of the snow plows on a live map; and yet, they haven't fixed the GPS issues with the streetcar. Apparently it's important that people sitting in the warmth of their home, in front of their PC, can see where the snow plows are; but less important that people standing in the cold waiting for transit should know how far away the streetcar is. I bet the city is using 3G/LTE cellular modems on the salt trucks, so why not upgrade the streetcars to use the same technology?

I really don't mind the streetcar being a bit slow in the CBD if I knew when/if it was arriving.  As it is I'm fighting close to zero degree temperatures or getting soaked in the rain because I don't want to just stand at a station hoping that a streetcar will arrive.

 

Since the beginning, the streetcars have run 3/peak 2/off-peak.  And since the beginning that should have been increased to 4/peak and 3/off-peak.  12-15 minute waits are too long.  Nobody who has options waits that long. 

 

Between running more streetcars and getting teh green light priority we could get frequency down to 5-6 minutes during peak periods.  That's how often the streetcars run in places like Toronto and Boston.

 

So Cinci's streetcar schedule should be on par with massive transit cities like Toronto and Boston?  Are you kidding? 

 

Just in Boston about 780,000 ride the T on an average weekday and another 226,500 ride the most heavily used light-rail system in the U.S..  That's about 780,000 daily local rail commuters in Boston.

Combined it's about 241,000,000+ annual ridership just on those local rail systems. 

 

How many people would be commuting on the Connector every 5-6 minutes, given Boston's level of riders. 

 

This is crazy-delusional.  No wonder I'm getting hounded out of this forum.

 

Yeah, have you not read Jarrett Walker? Frequency is one of the most important aspects of transit. It doesn't matter if its Boston, Cincinnati or the Middletown bus system. If you want people to ride it, you want to minimize those wait times.

 

 

In other high frequency = high ridership news:

 

Toronto Cleared Cars Off Its Biggest Transit Street, and Ridership Soared Almost Overnight

 

Before Toronto banned through traffic on King Street, the streetcar carried 65,000 daily trips. Ridership is now up 25 percent at peak hours, according to the Toronto Transit Commission [PDF]. The city will have to run more streetcars to keep up with demand. [...]

 

Without car traffic getting in the way, transit is moving much faster, the city reports. Rush hour trips take about four minutes less from end to end, an improvement of about 16 percent. Reliability is up too — the number of trips with delays has fallen 33 percent.

The streetcar started out this morning with 1 car in service, and it has since broken down. Service is currently suspended. It was also suspended last night: