Just what are the issues the cars are having?

Something with breaks and air compressors.

 

This trend of going in and out of service does not make them look good. I think they would better off saying "we're going to shut the system down for a week and get these problems resolved." That way, there aren't people waiting for the streetcar in the freezing cold, who then find out that we're going down to just 1 streetcar in service so the wait will be 30 minutes.

Something with breaks and air compressors.

 

This trend of going in and out of service does not make them look good. I think they would better off saying "we're going to shut the system down for a week and get these problems resolved." That way, there aren't people waiting for the streetcar in the freezing cold, who then find out that we're going down to just 1 streetcar in service so the wait will be 30 minutes.

 

Well that is what a competent group of people would do.............lets see if the City leaders choose that path or go for the way that causes the most drama. Any bets on the way they choose? I think everyone needs to make this a failure of leadership issue and quit letting these whiners who have the means to fix things get away with this on every issue. Fix it or get out of office is my new mantra for 2018.

 

Have KCMO's vehicles been having these issues? I'd like to assume that our maintenance guys are in conversation with their maintenance guys, but who knows.

In other high frequency = high ridership news:

 

Toronto Cleared Cars Off Its Biggest Transit Street, and Ridership Soared Almost Overnight

 

Before Toronto banned through traffic on King Street, the streetcar carried 65,000 daily trips. Ridership is now up 25 percent at peak hours, according to the Toronto Transit Commission [PDF]. The city will have to run more streetcars to keep up with demand. [...]

 

Without car traffic getting in the way, transit is moving much faster, the city reports. Rush hour trips take about four minutes less from end to end, an improvement of about 16 percent. Reliability is up too — the number of trips with delays has fallen 33 percent.

 

In that vein, would shutting off 12th street (at least westbound) to auto traffic help the streetcar be a little more efficient? Obviously this would need to coincide with signal prioritization for it to maximize any potential gains.

Main and Walnut downtown are still the biggest bottlenecks. These are also the streets that would highly benefit from transit-only lanes since dozens of Metro bus routes also use these streets to get to Government Square.

 

12th Street westbound doesn't need to be transit only IMO. What would be nice is better signal timing so that when the streetcar pulls out of the 12th & Vine station, it gets green lights at Vine, Race, and Elm, allowing it to quickly zoom over to the Washington Park stop.

How far should Main and Walnut be transit only? From 5th St to Central Parkway? Or would it make sense to take it all the way down to 3rd St?

^In my experience, the streetcar moves pretty quick south of the 5th/Walnut stop. It has its own lane south of 3rd and on 2nd. Not sure Main is as bad as Walnut either. Walnut between 9th and 5th seems to be the worst part of the whole thing. It could probably speed up by several minutes by giving it better signal timing and transit only lanes.

Something with breaks and air compressors.

 

This trend of going in and out of service does not make them look good. I think they would better off saying "we're going to shut the system down for a week and get these problems resolved." That way, there aren't people waiting for the streetcar in the freezing cold, who then find out that we're going down to just 1 streetcar in service so the wait will be 30 minutes.

 

This is the streetcars' first "real winter". Last winter was 60 degrees and sunny nearly every day. So potential issues that should have been discovered last year got pushed back.

^ It had the same issues a few times last winter. It seems that any time we have several days in a row below freezing, the same issue occurs. The Enquirer has some more details now:

 

The streetcar doesn't work in the cold. Now what?

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/18/streetcar-doesnt-work-cold-now-what/1044102001/

 

The Enquirer has been told CAF has a team working in Cincinnati. It bills the city for work, but the city has refused to pay over $4 million in invoices since November 2016.

 

...

 

Several failures have been identified; the most typical problem is water seeping into the cylinder. It freezes and blows into the piston or breaks a rod. And that makes it impossible to operate.

 

...

 

There was trouble from the start, with delayed delivery. And now, with so many problems, the city has refused to take ownership of the cars, which is part of the contract. This is important because that would signify the city and manufacturer were happy with the cars and start the clock running on a two-year warranty.

 

 

^In my experience, the streetcar moves pretty quick south of the 5th/Walnut stop. It has its own lane south of 3rd and on 2nd. Not sure Main is as bad as Walnut either. Walnut between 9th and 5th seems to be the worst part of the whole thing. It could probably speed up by several minutes by giving it better signal timing and transit only lanes.

 

The trouble is the signal prioritization though.  It usually has to wait for the lane crossover on Walnut between 5th and 4th, and it hits every...single...stoplight until it's back to 4th Street at least.  Those special phases at 2nd/Walnut and 2nd/Main mean it's sitting there waiting for the signal to turn for a long time even though it has its own lane.  Then there's the other crossover between 5th and 6th on Main.  Those should never require waiting, and if I recall they already have preemption/priority systems installed (as well as at Central Parkway and Liberty too if I recall) but the city won't let them enable those. 

Via Twitter:

 

SERVICE ALERT: service will be suspended until at least Jan. 22 to allow work on correcting numerous issues related to manufacturing and design defects. Metro buses will operate streetcar route until streetcars are back in service. More information: http://bit.ly/2Bd6qCA

^ It should be of little surprise that the streetcar is not being seen as a means to reduce parking requirements when it can totally be out of service for 5 days to correct issues caused by cold weather. I'm not saying I agree with the city or historic conservation board requiring parking for all developments in OTR, but given the large operational challenges with the streetcar, can it really be relied on to serve as a viable substitute for proximate parking?

^ It should be of little surprise that the streetcar is not being seen as a means to reduce parking requirements when it can totally be out of service for 5 days to correct issues caused by cold weather. I'm not saying I agree with the city or historic conservation board requiring parking for all developments in OTR, but given the large operational challenges with the streetcar, can it really be relied on to serve as a viable substitute for proximate parking?

 

Kansas City has the same streetcars and isn't having all of these problems.  It's pretty obvious that Cranley is intentionally sabotaging our operations for political gain. 

 

 

^ It should be of little surprise that the streetcar is not being seen as a means to reduce parking requirements when it can totally be out of service for 5 days to correct issues caused by cold weather. I'm not saying I agree with the city or historic conservation board requiring parking for all developments in OTR, but given the large operational challenges with the streetcar, can it really be relied on to serve as a viable substitute for proximate parking?

 

Ideally, these kind of kinks wouldn't have happened, but unfortunately they did. They're not the biggest hindrance to reliability, though. "12-15" minute headways, lack of signal timing or prioritization, and poor leadership from the city are.

^ It should be of little surprise that the streetcar is not being seen as a means to reduce parking requirements when it can totally be out of service for 5 days to correct issues caused by cold weather. I'm not saying I agree with the city or historic conservation board requiring parking for all developments in OTR, but given the large operational challenges with the streetcar, can it really be relied on to serve as a viable substitute for proximate parking?

 

Ideally, these kind of kinks wouldn't have happened, but unfortunately they did. They're not the biggest hindrance to reliability, though. "12-15" minute headways, lack of signal timing or prioritization, and poor leadership from the city are.

 

Those are, or contribute to, operational challenges. If you can't rely on a system to reliably work, so much so that it adversely impacts ridership, how could that system then be used to justify a major departure from zoning standards, as they apply to parking? I get frustrated with parking requirements and the like too, but they exist for a reason. Without a viable alternative source of transportation, people will drive and need places to park. While the streetcar didn't really move the needle on creating a viable source of regional transportation, I did buy into the notion that it would allow for car free movement throughout the core. I still think there is potential for this scenario to eventually unfold, but as it stands now, it would be kind of silly for the city to waive parking requirements for developments along the streetcar line, as it doesn't function how it was intended for a myriad of reasons. To give that sort of advantage to development in OTR would be unfair to other neighborhoods with frequent bus service, especially because many bus lines carry far larger number of passengers per day. Now, maybe the city should look into reducing parking requirements along major bus corridors, too. But they don't, and I see no reason why the streetcar should be treated differently just because it runs on rails instead of rubber wheels.

^The major bus corridors no longer have frequent service.  The #17, #18, and #19 used to travel on Clifton Ave. south from Ludlow to Over-the-Rhine.  There was 10-minute frequency during much of the day.  Now only the #17 travels that route and a bus comes along every 40 minutes. 

Jason Williams blames the streetcar for Cincinnati not making the Amazon HQ2 cut:

 

Indianapolis, Columbus and Pittsburgh are making great strides with transit. Indy's city-county council passed a transit tax hike last year, injecting $54 million a year into the bus system. Columbus has received a $50 million federal grant to test driverless vehicle and improve infrastructure for electric cars. Pittsburgh is a test market for Uber's driverless vehicles.

Meanwhile, Cincinnati has a broken-down streetcar.

 

The argument could be made the streetcar is a hindrance to moving forward with fixing the public transportation system. As long as the transit authority continues to run the buses and streetcar, it's going to be tough to convince trolley-loathing suburbanites to pass a transit tax. It'll take a PR miracle to convince them their money isn't going to the streetcar.

 

 

This idiot is blissfully unaware that Pittsburgh has various bus-only busways and a subway that was extended across the river with $500 million in stimulus funds.  Also, there is no such thing as a driverless car and whenever they do exist they won't be public transportation. 

 

 

 

^The major bus corridors no longer have frequent service.  The #17, #18, and #19 used to travel on Clifton Ave. south from Ludlow to Over-the-Rhine.  There was 10-minute frequency during much of the day.  Now only the #17 travels that route and a bus comes along every 40 minutes.

 

Didn’t know that. Damn, that sucks.

I know Cranley wants to devote a lot of time to public transportation but I feel like The only things he’s wanting to improve is more bus routes. To me in my opinion that is not going to be as beneficial as doing something like light rail like Pittsburgh and many other cities have. I think that’s one thing that Cincinnati is lacking and would be a major boost if it would happen.

I know Cranley wants to devote a lot of time to public transportation but I feel like The only things he’s wanting to improve is more bus routes. To me in my opinion that is not going to be as beneficial as doing something like light rail like Pittsburgh and many other cities have. I think that’s one thing that Cincinnati is lacking and would be a major boost if it would happen.

 

If Cranley is successful in improving bus service over the next four years, I would consider that a huge win. Across the board, we just don’t have the proper pro-growth mentality around here to justify building a rail line right now. As I mentioned earlier in another thread, this stuff is path-dependent, and the first step is this: https://cincinnatiideas.com/2017/04/20/cincinnati-needs-people-vision-10000/

The streetcar hate brigade was out in full force yesterday on AM radio. It would not surprise me if there are people on a payroll that bubble to the surface whenever possible. It’s like the “Thanks, Obama” meme.

 

“Oh darn! My cereal is soggy! Thanks, Cincy streetcar!”

 

It’s almost like the narrative yesterday was to deflect attention from the failure to even make the first cut on AMZ HQ2 to the streetcar and even blame the streetcar for it.

 

The discussion should be centered around the administration’s obvious lack of support for the system.

I know Cranley wants to devote a lot of time to public transportation but I feel like The only things he’s wanting to improve is more bus routes. To me in my opinion that is not going to be as beneficial as doing something like light rail like Pittsburgh and many other cities have. I think that’s one thing that Cincinnati is lacking and would be a major boost if it would happen.

 

If Cranley is successful in improving bus service over the next four years, I would consider that a huge win. Across the board, we just don’t have the proper pro-growth mentality around here to justify building a rail line right now. As I mentioned earlier in another thread, this stuff is path-dependent, and the first step is this: https://cincinnatiideas.com/2017/04/20/cincinnati-needs-people-vision-10000/

 

Hi Billshark,

 

I agree, very important and would be a huge win for Cranley if he could get the bus lines figured out especially with a big increase in spending from Metro.

 

I was just thinking of ways to sell this, and I feel like Metro (SORTA) isn't doing a good job, and they need a professional sales person in there to sell it.  Heck, get Jeff Berding to do it.  They need to look quantitatively at rapid lines and other important lines they are looking to boost, look at the car ownership % along those lines, look at research (I am certain there is a ton of research) on the economic benefits to the people who live there already of having reliable bus service, look at the % it would take off of food stamps / welfare / whatever by the economic benefits, and look at how much that saves.  I can almost guarantee that is a positive ROI right there.

 

Then, on top of that, you can start to sell it as a NEW economic development and job creator for outsiders to the region.  I just get this feeling it won't sell by saying "It will attract millenials", that never flies here in the Cincy area among the majority of electorate.

I was at a real estate roundtable that Cranley attended this morning.  Someone asked him about public transit and he talked about increasing the county sales tax, while lowering the city's income tax.  He also mentioned that there's going to be a press conference with Uber next week for some sort of investment/partnership with Metro.  I thought they already formed some kind of partnership, so maybe this is financially related.  It'll be interesting to see how that works.  No mention of the streetcar or light rail, of course. 

 

I was going to ask about building a west side bridge as an alternative to a new BSB, but they didn't get to me.

Out-of-service streetcar hit by car and derailed at Elm & Liberty:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/car-strikes-derails-out-of-service-streetcar

I witnessed the derailed streetcar this evening. The damage to the streetcar overall was pretty minor. They'll be able to replace that panel and have it running again soon. Once they got it back on the tracks, it drove itself back to the maintenance facility (it did not need to be towed). Still, we're pretty lucky that the first time an incident like this happened, there were no passengers aboard the streetcar, only staff on a test run.

Whaaaaat? It derailed?

 

I really want to see the footage, lol

Out-of-service streetcar hit by car and derailed at Elm & Liberty:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/car-strikes-derails-out-of-service-streetcar

 

Oh, so Channel 9 is where that anchor went after the huge Columbus TV news shakeup of 2017.

Was Cranley or Dusty driving the car?

Streetcar service to resume Monday, Jan. 22, at 6:30 a.m. Buses continuing coverage until 11 PM Sunday night: http://www.cincinnatibellconnector.com/news/58/35/STREETCAR-SERVICE-TO-RESUME-MONDAY-MORNING-Jan.-22-at-630-a.m.

I wonder if the streetcars are fixed, or "fixed" in the sense that they'll be fine until the next period of very cold weather. 

Massive number of fire ladder trucks and fire SUVs around 8th and Walnut this morning causing the streetcar to shut down.  Traffic was nearly at a stop anyway with Metro buses and cars at a near standstill.

New golf cart shuttle service comes to Downtown and OTR

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/01/22/new-golf-cart-shuttle-service-comes-downtown-and-otr/1053378001/

 

While several Cincinnati streetcars were shut down for repairs over the weekend, a local couple launched an alternative form of transportation in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine:  golf carts.

 

GEST, a new golf cart transportation company headed by local entrepreneurs Patrick Dye and his wife, Lauren, began offering free shuttle service from The Banks to OTR and from JACK Casino to Music Hall.

New golf cart shuttle service comes to Downtown and OTR

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/01/22/new-golf-cart-shuttle-service-comes-downtown-and-otr/1053378001/

 

While several Cincinnati streetcars were shut down for repairs over the weekend, a local couple launched an alternative form of transportation in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine:  golf carts.

 

GEST, a new golf cart transportation company headed by local entrepreneurs Patrick Dye and his wife, Lauren, began offering free shuttle service from The Banks to OTR and from JACK Casino to Music Hall.

 

What a hair-brained idea  ::)

How much are they paying the drivers?  Probably similar to what the streetcar operators are paid, and with a fraction of the potential riders, this thing is hemorrhaging money. 

http://www.gestcarts.com/

 

I'm suspicious that Cranley got buddies to fund this operation.  Look at how glowingly positive all of the coverage is. 

New golf cart shuttle service comes to Downtown and OTR

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2018/01/22/new-golf-cart-shuttle-service-comes-downtown-and-otr/1053378001/

 

While several Cincinnati streetcars were shut down for repairs over the weekend, a local couple launched an alternative form of transportation in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine:  golf carts.

 

GEST, a new golf cart transportation company headed by local entrepreneurs Patrick Dye and his wife, Lauren, began offering free shuttle service from The Banks to OTR and from JACK Casino to Music Hall.

 

Not to be confused with the OTHER golf cart ride sharing service in OTR: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/12/12/exclusive-cincinnati-entrepreneurs-launching-ride.html

How much are they paying the drivers?  Probably similar to what the streetcar operators are paid, and with a fraction of the potential riders, this thing is hemorrhaging money. 

 

I doubt it's close to what streetcar operators are paid. They are given benefits like health and dental.

There's six golf carts which can hold five people each driving around Downtown and OTR with no clear route, schedule or frequency that you can only hire by hailing them down.

I doubt it's close to what streetcar operators are paid. They are given benefits like health and dental.

 

Are they tipped?  What if we had a tip jar for the streetcar operators?

There's six golf carts which can hold five people each driving around Downtown and OTR with no clear route, schedule or frequency that you can only hire by hailing them down.

oh i get it - a taxi!

There's six golf carts which can hold five people each driving around Downtown and OTR with no clear route, schedule or frequency that you can only hire by hailing them down.

oh i get it - a taxi!

 

Thanks Jim...

 

Two vacant lots facing the streetcar tracks on Elm St. are poised to shatter OTR land prices. 

 

1538 Elm, a 20x90 lot, is listed for $135k:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1564152/1538-Elm-St-Cincinnati-OH-45202

 

One block closer to Music Hall, a smaller 20x70 lot 1437 Elm is listed for $149k, or $100/sq foot:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1564152/1538-Elm-St-Cincinnati-OH-45202

The streetcar driver was warning people this morning to not stand so much (I didn't hear the message too well as I was playing pretend games with my daughter).  Later as we were disembarking the driver noted that for the second day in a row the City of Cincinnati sprayed the tracks with beet juice making them slippery/dangerous.  It seems the Administration is really doing everything it can to make the streetcar fail.  I just wish there were something we could do about it over then next few years, but sadly elections are far away.

for the second day in a row the City of Cincinnati sprayed the tracks with beet juice making them slippery/dangerous.

I don't mean to be snarky... but how are the tracks supposed to be treated in cold weather? Does salt cause a problem? Is it too cold for salt to work effectively? How does Toronto handle their streetcar tracks in the winter?

This Wikipedia article mentions some winter challenges that Toronto faces with their older vehicles, but apparently their newer vehicles use electronic braking and don't have problems in cold weather: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system#Winter_operational_issues

There is no call for snow in the forecast and I'm not sure why they couldn't just use salt instead of a liquid that sticks to the tracks.

I doubt this one is deliberate malice.  There's three deicing techniques generally used:  salt, calcium chloride, and beet juice.  Salt is the easiest to spread, but it needs to be crushed into place to work well and becomes a lot less effective in temperatures below 20.  It also is the most corrosive.  Calcium chloride is less corrosive, and works better at lower temperatures, but it tends to form stripes and may not work well for tracks, plus it washes off pretty fast.  Beet juice is not corrosive (at all?) and also works at very low temperatures, plus it seems to spread better, or at least it's cheap enough that they can lay more down to get good coverage so it doesn't wash away so fast.  I think calcium chloride and beet juice can be less expensive than salt, especially if salt is in short supply, but they require more expensive and dedicated tank/spreader trucks.  Sometimes beet juice is mixed with salt too (the beet juice helps improve salt's effectiveness and stickiness).

 

So my guess is that beet juice is used because it won't corrode the rails, switches, or the rubber gaskets under the rails.  It *IS* a liquid that sticks to the tracks, but sticky substances can be slippery as well under the right circumstances.  Salt probably does nothing since it won't stick to the top of the rails, while being the most corrosive where it sits next to the rails.  Calcium chloride is probably not very effective either since it seems to wash off quickly and is still corrosive.  Either way, the streetcars have sand applicators for just this reason.  Back in the day they just used sand and sweeper cars, but no deicing.  Also, the stuff was put down for the expected snow and dropping temperatures yesterday afternoon and into the evening which ended up being just some light snow showers and flurries.

The city is also supposed to use a special type of plow on streetcar streets to avoid damaging the rail. I really hope they have actually done this and are not using a plow that is going to scrape up the tracks, make the ride less smooth, and require that infrastructure to be replaced sooner than what would otherwise be necessary.

 

I believe salt has the potential to damage the rubber boot under the tracks, which is why the beet juice is used.

From the beginning beet juice was planned. This is not an attempt by the administration to destroy the streetcar.

 

I have seen a John Deere-like vehicle plowing the streetcar tracks in the past, so it appears they are doing that differently.

Apparently there must be issues with the streetcars again today.  I noticed the arrival time signs at lunch were no longer showing actual times and noted that the streetcars will arrive every thirty minutes.  It's embarrassing, but my daughter and I are going to be picked up in a car to go home to OTR after work since we cannot depend on the streetcar showing up for our commute.  I'm looking forward to the day that the streetcar lives up to its service promised 18 months ago.