^you'd probably get 5x more ridership on a Newport spur than the Ezzard Charles spur. 

Sure, but the cost (and political cooperation) will put this at the bottom of the list of most likely extensions.  The Ezzard Charles spur is just the most likely to happen next given the political climate.  (Low cost and those on the fence may be supportive with the FCC stadium there)

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by 10albersa

1 hour ago, thomasbw said:

^you'd probably get 5x more ridership on a Newport spur than the Ezzard Charles spur. 

 

 

Yes, but what is the cost of it?

 

You probably increase the cost significantly just going over the bridge. YOu can probably get a lot of synergies using the existing grid. Plus, there is a huge benefit connecting it to outer parking lots and getting more vehicles off the street in the core. Also, for OTR residents or other apartment residents, if you can then park your car affordably at a garage that is accessible from the streetcar line, it makes it easier to construct units without on site parking (because they can get there with a short walk or street car ride.

Hopefully they will move the streetcar's Court St. transformer into new construction at some point.  They saved maybe $1 million dollars with this ugly improvisation, but it needs to be moved if Court St. is going to be improved.  Perhaps they could move it into the basement of new construction on the lot to the south, when and if it occurs.  

 

Also, here is a shot from the new Kroger garage of the streetcar tracks on Central Parkway:

 

Not sure where else to post this but the city actually is closing a lot of roads for blink. The streetcar route will be almost all be closed to cars and only open to buses. Really glad and surprised they actually went through with this. It will make blink run much more smooth then 2017. 

^ It looks like they aren't half-assing this, which is great and unexpected. It also appears park & ride is being pushed for getting people into the basin. IDK how successful it is reasonable to expect that to be, but combining that with the free streetcar and the street closures, transit is the background star of this event. Hopefully the news agencies pick up on the P&R emphasis.

 

https://www.wvxu.org/post/cincy-chamber-dont-blink-and-drive

4 hours ago, Robuu said:

^ It looks like they aren't half-assing this, which is great and unexpected. It also appears park & ride is being pushed for getting people into the basin. IDK how successful it is reasonable to expect that to be, but combining that with the free streetcar and the street closures, transit is the background star of this event. Hopefully the news agencies pick up on the P&R emphasis.

 

https://www.wvxu.org/post/cincy-chamber-dont-blink-and-drive

The streetcar basically has to be free to be used for large events. If every machine at every stop sold 1 ticket a minute for the four hours that Blink is underway that's only 4560 tickets. 

^ I know this is the streetcar thread, but the park & ride I was referring to was bus service in & out of the basin, as referenced in the article I linked:

 

Quote

"We're working really closely with Metro and TANK to make sure their routes are optimized," and Cull says the transit authorities will release information about the best way to get into the city's center by using park and ride facilities.

 

16 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Not sure where else to post this but the city actually is closing a lot of roads for blink. The streetcar route will be almost all be closed to cars and only open to buses. Really glad and surprised they actually went through with this. It will make blink run much more smooth then 2017. 

 

What I wonder is: will all of the traffic lights along the streetcar route be put into flashing yellow mode during the closures, so the streetcar can freely travel along the route, only needing to stop at streetcar stops and the few cross-streets that will remain open? Or will the streetcar still have to frustratingly stop at every intersection for no reason?

19 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

What I wonder is: will all of the traffic lights along the streetcar route be put into flashing yellow mode during the closures, so the streetcar can freely travel along the route, only needing to stop at streetcar stops and the few cross-streets that will remain open? Or will the streetcar still have to frustratingly stop at every intersection for no reason?

 

I would imagine that it will only have to stop at the intersections where there will actually be cross-traffic. That's Liberty, Central Parkway, Sixth, Seventh, Third, and Second. So it can sail right through Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, Ninth, and Court downtown, plus all the intersections in OTR aside from Liberty. 

The 26x90 vacant lot at 217 Wade St. just closed for $155,000.  It sold for $2,300 in 2003.  

 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1125572,-84.5199665,3a,75y,178.27h,97.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s71PmiZmu68hv1gu9q69fOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/0810002015200/2018/summary

 

 

12 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The 26x90 vacant lot at 217 Wade St. just closed for $155,000.  It sold for $2,300 in 2003.  

 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1125572,-84.5199665,3a,75y,178.27h,97.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s71PmiZmu68hv1gu9q69fOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/0810002015200/2018/summary

 

Good to hear that individual lots are able to command that kind of price!

In my observation the streetcar system was overwhelmed during Blink.  The streetcars were forced to stop at every stop for hours and hours - a situation that doesn't occur during other large events like Riverfest or Taste of Cincinnati.  That slowed their laps and significantly lowered the capacity of the system.  

 

Our peak ridership day is a normal peak Saturday in Kansas City.  We really need a sixth streetcar so we can dependably run 5 during large events.  

The reason our peak is average daily for KC is because probably 85-90% of the ridership on Thursday-Sunday was during a 4 hour window instead of spread out all day.

 

There are so many more things we need before a sixth streetcar. Signal prioritization (preemption, delayed green, etc) as well as better enforcement of transit only lanes and streetcar blockages. 

 

After that, fare elimination should be the #1 priority. If it gets a surge in ridership after all of that, then we can talk about sixth streetcar.

5 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

 If it gets a surge in ridership after all of that, then we can talk about sixth streetcar.

 

Robert Smyjunas' commission on the crooked Millennium Hotel Deal is the cost of a streetcar.  

3 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Robert Smyjunas' commission on the crooked Millennium Hotel Deal is the cost of a streetcar.  

 

It doesn't matter. There is no political will for a sixth streetcar. We need to push to make the existing cars run as efficiently as possible.

Did they even run all five during Blink?  Have they ever run all five other than on opening day? 

They ran 4. I don't believe they have ever run all 5 since opening weekend.

I'm sure that the streetcar worked better for Blink 2019 than it did for Blink 2017, but closing off the streets to cars may have backfired in a way. Since there were no cars on those streets, people felt safe walking in the middle of the street (including on the streetcar tracks) which is why the city needed to have a "police escort" driving in front of each streetcar, simply clearing people off the tracks so the streetcar could get through. I think a simple fix would be to put cones down on both sides of the streetcar lane and have the police officers on the streets tell people to stay off of the tracks. And of course, all of the COASTers are coming out of the woodwork today, demanding to know where the funding for the police escorts came from, as if the cost of 4 police officers driving the route was even a significant percentage of the total cost of putting on this event...

Kansas City just added their sixth streetcar:

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2019/08/15/kc-streetcar-fleet-will-grow-on-monday.html

3 minutes ago, taestell said:

.Since there were no cars on those streets, people felt safe walking in the middle of the street (including on the streetcar tracks) which is why the city needed to have a "police escort" driving in front of each streetcar, simply clearing people off the tracks so the streetcar 

 

Yeah it was chaotic.  Again, Blink is not a large event like any other, since there was unpredictable pedestrian behavior for the entire length of the line, not just a focus on the Riverfront or 5th St. or Washington Park.  

 

 

 

 

 

Streetcar ridership for Blink 2019 smashes 2017 numbers

 

 

The Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar had more than 43,000 rides in downtown and Over-the-Rhine during the four-day Blink festival, far exceeding the numbers from the 2017 version of the festival.

 

The streetcar’s 43,205 rides compared with the 26,955 during the four-day 2017 Blink festival. The city of Cincinnati charged no fares after 4 p.m. in 2019. It charged a fare all day, at least officially, during Blink in 2017. The streetcar was closed for more than 3½ hours in 2017 because of a traffic incident and during the Blink parade.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/10/14/streetcar-ridership-for-blink-2019-smashes-2017.html

Some damage from back in July:

 

...and stuck in the Main St. bar traffic:

So the Transit app charges a $0.20 service fee for purchases under $2.00, effectively making the standard 2-hour fare $1.20 if you only buy one. 

28 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

So the Transit app charges a $0.20 service fee for purchases under $2.00, effectively making the standard 2-hour fare $1.20 if you only buy one. 

 

Just buy 2 and the $0.20 charge disappears. I don't think it's a big issue. There are still ticket machines at the stations where you can get $1 tickets alone. Pretty much anyone who downloads the app is going to use it more than once, so I don't think this is that big of an issue.

You have to buy the 2-pack.  It would be nice if you could add multiple single fares to your cart and then the fee just drops off, but that's not how it works. 

That is unacceptable. Our TVMs are so complicated that we've been telling people to download the app, now we're telling people they can't actually buy a single fare in the app without paying an additional fee?

Yep bullsh*t.

So if you buy the two-pack in the app, activating only activates one ticket.  That's fine, but it shows the activated ticket as "CBC Streetcar 2-Hour $2.00" which looks like both tickets because of the $2.00.  I was using a second ticket to cover someone who didn't have the app yet, and I was struggling to figure out if it had activated one or two.  The only way I could really tell was by going back to my ticket queue and seeing that I had another one left that was unactivated.  Then getting both to show up for verification (fortunately no cops inspecting fares that day) requires going into the settings menu and cycling through them.  

 

Can we just make it free already?  I still see people missing a streetcar because they're struggling with the vending machine.  With the crap frequency (thanks Cranley) it's all that much worse since that's pretty much a guaranteed extra 10 minutes minimum.  The Transit app is a worse experience than Cincy EZRide, which I wouldn't consider great either.  Drilling down through non-obvious menus to get to your previously-purchased tickets is rather bone-headed.  

Only 2 more years until we can make this thing fare free and let it build some positive momentum and headlines for once.

Not if Slitherman wins.

The city is continuing, albeit at a snails pace, to make progress on the downtown signal re-timing and some signal changes for the streetcar. Current ETA is to have the fiber signal system in place mid 2020 and the all the signals re-timed, along with "hold greens" for the streetcar by end of next year.

 

https://city-egov2.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/fyi/public/fyi_docs/Blob/4653.pdf?rpp=-10&w=doc_no%3D'3989'&m=1

I don't remember the exact quote, but on the That's So Cincinnati podcast Jason Williams asked Landsman if we'd see any movement on making the streetcar free before the end of the year and Landsman kind of acted coy and said something to the effect of "stay tuned." Don't know if that's a sign that we'll be getting a Christmas present in the form of free fares? 

Cincinnati streetcar will be free for the holidays

 

Weekend visitors to downtown Cincinnati during the holiday season will receive an extra gift this year.

 

The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. and Downtown Cincinnati Inc. have given a donation that will provide free rides on the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar on Saturdays following Thanksgiving until Christmas.

 

Free rides will be offered 8 a.m.-1 a.m. on Nov. 30 and Dec. 7, 14 and 21.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/19/cincinnati-streetcar-will-be-free-for-the-holidays.html

Streetcar divorce finalized by SORTA; agency gets new CEO

 

The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority’s board approved three measures on Tuesday aimed at handing over day-to-day management of the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar to the city. 

 

The board also made Darryl Haley the permanent CEO of the region’s largest transit agency effective Dec. 1, removing the word “interim” from his title. Haley has served in that role since the departure of Dwight Ferrell about 11 months ago.


 

“I have passion for what we bring to this community and the region,” Haley said.   


 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/19/streetcar-divorce-finalized-by-sorta-agency-gets.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/21/2019-was-a-year-of-additions-expansion-in-otr.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

Quote

 

According to the Over-the-Rhine Chamber of Commerce, more than 400 jobs have been created by the 57 companies that added operations in the neighborhood just north of the Central Business District this year.

 

In addition to the new businesses that opened, 13 OTR businesses expanded in 2019 in part due to the chamber’s investment of more than $500,000 in grant funds since 2007.

Much of the growth in OTR has been near Findlay Market and particularly centered around Model Group’s Market Square development.

 

 

Er, where the streetcar goes.  There is still absolutely nothing going on on Vine St. from Liberty St. north to the hill, or on Walnut, or on McMicken east of Vine with the exception of the beer garden that just broke ground this past Monday.  

 

 

 

On 11/18/2019 at 8:10 AM, JYP said:

The city is continuing, albeit at a snails pace, to make progress on the downtown signal re-timing and some signal changes for the streetcar. Current ETA is to have the fiber signal system in place mid 2020 and the all the signals re-timed, along with "hold greens" for the streetcar by end of next year.

 

https://city-egov2.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/fyi/public/fyi_docs/Blob/4653.pdf?rpp=-10&w=doc_no%3D'3989'&m=1

 

I just cannot believe that the effort to re-time the traffic lights along the streetcar route is taking this long. Detroit had their traffic signals re-timed within 2 weeks of their streetcar opening. Cincinnati is on track to have our streetcar running for 4 years before we make similar changes.

And please, please do not let the city get away with calling the "hold greens" thing "signal priority". It is not signal priority.

43 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/11/21/2019-was-a-year-of-additions-expansion-in-otr.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

 

 

Er, where the streetcar goes.  There is still absolutely nothing going on on Vine St. from Liberty St. north to the hill, or on Walnut, or on McMicken east of Vine with the exception of the beer garden that just broke ground this past Monday.  

 

 

 

 

Jake, you should post this on city-data and sees what happens. I'll get the popcorn ready

49 minutes ago, taestell said:

And please, please do not let the city get away with calling the "hold greens" thing "signal priority". It is not signal priority.

 

Are these efforts even going to help?

My understanding is this change will make it so that if the light is already green and it detects that the streetcar is approaching, it will hold the green light for a few seconds longer. That's fine, but it's a pretty minor change. It might help out in certain scenarios but it's not going to make the streetcar significantly faster. The city needs to make the streetcar run at 12 minute headways like originally promised. What the streetcar really needs is true signal priority, that will cause a red light to turn green as the streetcar approaches. A former Metro employee involved in the streetcar told me that all of the necessary equipment for this is already in place, and the city could turn it on today if they wanted to. But they don't want to.

 

Additionally, the city should really rethink the entire downtown traffic light timing plan to give significantly more green light time to Main and Walnut at all times. There are so many transit vehicles that use those streets, adding more green light time would drastically improve the experience for tens of thousands of bus and streetcar riders.

"Hold Green" will actually anger non-riders because it could throw off other signals much in the way ambulances and fire trucks rob you of your green. Then you sit there through two full 4-phase cycles as traffic stacks up behind you and can even block other intersections behind you. By this point the fire-breathing suburbanites have burned their steering wheels off. Real signal priority comes with a coordinated light timing scheme throughout the vicinity.

1 minute ago, GCrites80s said:

"Hold Green" will actually anger non-riders because it could throw off other signals much in the way ambulances and fire trucks rob you of your green. Then you sit there through two full 4-phase cycles as traffic stacks up behind you and can even block other intersections behind you. By this point the fire-breathing suburbanites have burned their steering wheels off. Real signal priority comes with a coordinated light timing scheme throughout the vicinity.

Heaven forbid the automobile drivers are even slightly inconvenienced with an extra signal phase!!

1 hour ago, taestell said:

 

I just cannot believe that the effort to re-time the traffic lights along the streetcar route is taking this long. Detroit had their traffic signals re-timed within 2 weeks of their streetcar opening. Cincinnati is on track to have our streetcar running for 4 years before we make similar changes.

Not to mention fixing the unnecessary signal light at Green and Race and adding a streetcar exception to the stop sign at Henry and Race. Things that literally can happen today. 

4 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

"Hold Green" will actually anger non-riders because it could throw off other signals much in the way ambulances and fire trucks rob you of your green. Then you sit there through two full 4-phase cycles as traffic stacks up behind you and can even block other intersections behind you. By this point the fire-breathing suburbanites have burned their steering wheels off. Real signal priority comes with a coordinated light timing scheme throughout the vicinity.

 

Well right now the traffic signals are full optimized for traffic on east-west streets. For example, if you get off I-75 South at Seventh Street and drive east through the downtown street grid, you will never hit a single red light. Everything is prioritized so that people can get off the highway and pull into their parking garage without stopping in the morning, and pull out of the parking garage and get on the highway without stopping in the evening. Coincidentally most transit routes use north-south streets so they're forced to stop at more red lights so that car drivers don't have to. It's really quite classist and I wish that a group like BBC would put pressure on the city to change this.

9 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

"Hold Green" will actually anger non-riders because it could throw off other signals much in the way ambulances and fire trucks rob you of your green.

 

The downtown signals haven't been re timed in so long it doesn't really matter. They're not efficiently timed as is.

 

 

Edited November 21, 20195 yr by DEPACincy

11 minutes ago, JYP said:

Heaven forbid the automobile drivers are even slightly inconvenienced with an extra signal phase!!

 

As much glee as it would bring us to see them miserable, if they get too filled with rage we'll wind up with Cranely and Slitherman in the White House

51 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

 

Jake, you should post this on city-data and sees what happens. I'll get the popcorn ready

 

 

I was kicked off of that site several years ago for posting stuff like this.  Same with the Enquirer - I was a paid subscriber but was banned when I wrote to them concerning bots in the comments section.  

 

1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

 

I was kicked off of that site several years ago for posting stuff like this.  Same with the Enquirer - I was a paid subscriber but was banned when I wrote to them concerning bots in the comments section.  

 

 

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