I've heard that what finally caused Seattle voters to start to invest in light rail, and then defend that vote against a repeal attempt, was the feeling that they were being eclipsed by Portland and Vancouver -- Portland with its LRT and streetcar and Vancouver with its SkyTrain.

 

Maybe the majority of Cincinnatians won't come around until Columbus, Indianapolis, and every other city in America has light rail, streetcars, and intercity rail. :(

Just to give people an idea this is where the D.C. streetcar system is starting.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102871512541366209360.00046554cb856a4d84bad&t=h&z=16

 

Its a very rough neighborhood with some redeeming qualities not nearly as significant as OTR

I've heard that what finally caused Seattle voters to start to invest in light rail, and then defend that vote against a repeal attempt, was the feeling that they were being eclipsed by Portland and Vancouver -- Portland with its LRT and streetcar and Vancouver with its SkyTrain.

 

Maybe the majority of Cincinnatians won't come around until Columbus, Indianapolis, and every other city in America has light rail, streetcars, and intercity rail. :(

 

Then they'll complain about how Cincinnati isn't progressive enough and can't get anything done, when they were the ones holding it back in the first place.

Just to give people an idea this is where the D.C. streetcar system is starting.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102871512541366209360.00046554cb856a4d84bad&t=h&z=16

 

Its a very rough neighborhood with some redeeming qualities not nearly as significant as OTR

 

How the hell did they decide on that location?  I dont think that will get much use...

>was the feeling that they were being eclipsed by Portland and Vancouver

 

Seattle has a suburban Libertarian streak similar to Cincinnati's with a very anti-city attitude.  I suspect that it developed there in part because of the metro's very complicated physical layout with individual neighborhoods that are quite isolated.  For example Mercer Island is...an island. 

 

There appears to be a Portland-Seattle rivalry, with the Portlanders being more smug and confident despite Seattle being the much bigger city.  I don't really sense that Portland is striving to be a "world" city and is content with its low-key status. 

How the hell did they decide on that location?  I dont think that will get much use...

 

The location was decided on by DC City Council, and they chose the least already-advantaged neighborhood up for streetcar service.  Anacostia is Marion Barry's Ward, and he (as well as others) lobbied for it.  It was a very political decision. 

 

 

I read a story the other day that Connex Veolia is being sued over the deadly commuter train crash last year that may result in fiancial troubles for the company.  I believe they were leading one of the streetcar vendors for the City's RFP.

 

Anybody know the details?

I read a story the other day that Connex Veolia is being sued over the deadly commuter train crash last year that may result in fiancial troubles for the company.  I believe they were leading one of the streetcar vendors for the City's RFP.

 

Anybody know the details?

The City of Cincinnati has narrowed the list of teams to design, build, operate and maintain the Cincinnati Streetcar to two from four. The remaining candidates include the Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners and URS Washington Divison.

 

Source - http://www.protransit.com/Happening-Right-Now/

^

Veolia is on the Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners team, which is competing to design, build and operate the Cincinnati Streetcar.

 

Who is "Ghost Tracks"?

 

Who employs "Ghost Tracks?"

 

Is the employer of "Ghost Tracks" also competing to design, build and operate the Cincinnati Streetcar?

this article has a list of all of the firms competing for the contract

 

Former Metro leader boards Cincinnati streetcar effort with proposal

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

The former CEO of Cincinnati’s Metro bus system has assembled a team of local contractors to build and operate a proposed new streetcar line.

 

Michael Setzer, who left Metro last March to become regional vice president for Chicago-based Veolia Transportation, is listed as the lead contact person for Cincinnati Streetcar Development Partners.

 

It’s one of four groups that responded to a city of Cincinnati request for streetcar proposals.

this article has a list of all of the firms competing for the contract

 

Former Metro leader boards Cincinnati streetcar effort with proposal

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

“We’d consider the Veolia group our primary competition, in part because of Mike’s experience locally,” said Dave Warmald, senior project engineer in URS’s downtown office.

 

 

They got the spelling of Dave Wormald's last name wrong.

 

 

How the hell did they decide on that location?  I dont think that will get much use...

 

The location was decided on by DC City Council, and they chose the least already-advantaged neighborhood up for streetcar service.  Anacostia is Marion Barry's Ward, and he (as well as others) lobbied for it.  It was a very political decision. 

 

 

 

While the location is within Anacostia (above description is certainly accurate) and within Marion Barry's council district (Ward 8), the streetcar, originally planned as light rail, was in the works before Barry got back onto the Council (2004).  The Anacostia Waterfront Initiative was in the works well before 2004 - see

http://www.planning.dc.gov/planning/cwp/view,a,1285,q,571105,planningNav_GID,1708.asp

for the November 2003 plan.

 

Of course given Barry's power in that city (he definitely represents "his people") it's possible he was pulling some strings to get this thing done, but I really think that this was the work of a very progressive planning department (at least at the time) that saw an opportunity to remake an underutilized resource.

If that Anacostia streetcar connected to say, the new ballpark or the capitol, I would say there's hope for it, but right now I just don't see how this will work.

^

At one point there was a plan to build a new stadium for DC United over there, but I haven't heard much about that recently.  The AWI does, however, have some pretty substantial plans, likely turning the area into a new destination.

 

But yes, as of now, it's a long way from much of anything...

^It's also about the only place in DC that hasn't been gentrified (and I don't typically use that term, but it is appropriate for the District).  I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the calculation as well.

some observations on the parties from a friend involved in Charlotte:

 

“Veolia and Herzog both are good operators – I’m not sure either operate streetcars in the US, but both operate bus and commuter rail systems.  Herzog also is a large contractor, so they may be the best integrated team.  URS and HDR are the primary engineering consultants around the country on streetcar projects.  Both claim Portland as successes and both have good streetcar teams. In Charlotte, HDR has hired away many of URS’ employees who worked on the Charlotte Streetcar conceptual engineering.  Looks like HDR (which is engineering the North Corridor here) is part of the Veolia team.  My question for that team would be how well they all work together, given the sheer number of partners.

 

Bombardier is an equipment manufacturer, so I assume if you hire them, you get their equipment.  I would be curious who they are using as a construction contractor.

 

Not sure this is very helpful.”

I think Boeing was even going to build the rail cars.

 

In the 1970s (which our era is starting to resemble) Boeing did indeed get into this business.  Boeing-Vertol actually manufactured light rail cars (the first in the US since the PCC), but they apparently where poorly engineered, and Boeing left the business.

 

 

Brad, here is the route superimposed on the photo you had.  There has to be a better photo out there than this one because the line looks pretty diminutive on this one.

 

try this one

http://www.urbanohio.com/SWOhio/Cincinnati/Aerial/CincinnatiAerials78.jpg

 

 

 

NAACP Pushing For New Amendment

Last Update: 3/21 10:18 pm

 

Cincinnati's NAACP and the Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes, also known as COAST, are teaming up with hopes to pass an amendment that will create a way to push out a mayor.

 

This is if the amendment passes a vote by NAACP members next week.

 

NAACP President Christopher Smitherman told the Enquirer that he hopes he can get the charter amendment on the November ballot.

 

Smitherman said the plan is not directed at Mayor Mark Mallory, even though last month the organization announced a no confidence vote in the mayor.

 

But not everyone agrees with the amendment.

 

"We don't need Mayor Mallory or any mayor worrying about some special interest group that doesn't get their way leading a recall effort and sucking all the energy and all the progress of our city when we have a very expensive battle over whether or not to recall the mayor.  That's an awful idea.  California does things like that.  We don't need that here in Cincinnati," said Cincinnati councilman Jeff Berding.

 

9 News tried to reach Smitherman Saturday, he wasn't available.

 

Supporters say if the amendment doesn't get on the November ballot, they'll continue to work on it for 2010.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/NAACP-Pushing-For-New-Amendment/r_LAVOQqVUSwBv6Yz4f6zg.cspx

Can we trade him to some other city, we'll take a case of shingellosis in return.

According to his bio, his prime credential for a life in politics is his 7 years as an RA at Bowling Green University's dorms.  Maybe he should have taken a break from confiscating alcohol, calling pointless meetings, and making new rules to hit up the campus writing tutor. 

 

Also, Smitherman has been attempting to extort city money for his brother's concrete company.  If Smitherman was familiar with modern streetcars, he'd know that miles of beautiful new concrete will be necessary, and he might be able to get his brother in on the contract.   

According to his bio, his prime credential for a life in politics is his 7 years as an RA at Bowling Green University's dorms. Maybe he should have taken a break from confiscating alcohol, calling pointless meetings, and making new rules to hit up the campus writing tutor.

 

7 years?  How long was he in school?  I'm assuming that most freshmen can not be RAs, so maybe 8 years?

Brad, here is the route superimposed on the photo you had. There has to be a better photo out there than this one because the line looks pretty diminutive on this one.

 

 

This is not going to be a fast, comfortable ride.

Brad, here is the route superimposed on the photo you had.  There has to be a better photo out there than this one because the line looks pretty diminutive on this one.

 

 

This is not going to be a fast, comfortable ride.

 

What do you mean?

Not sure if this is streetcar related though I am pretty sure it is.  I saw a few contractors installing a test strip ( vehicle counter) in the left lane on Elm at Green about an hour ago. Would the left lane be the streetcar right of way?

 

Update: Looks like I go too excited. They are putting tests strips on Vine, sycamore and mulberry...

 

I like the idea of going up Gilbert rather than vine, It hits so many more areas and is much straighter

 

 

Brad, here is the route superimposed on the photo you had.  There has to be a better photo out there than this one because the line looks pretty diminutive on this one.

 

 

This is not going to be a fast, comfortable ride.

 

What do you mean?

 

Without putting words in John's mouth I believe he is referring to the steepness of the route pictured.

^

 

I just have a well-formed bias that modern streetcars and light rail need to run flat and straight. There are too many turns and grades on this route. It's possible, just undesirable.

^

 

I just have a well-formed bias that modern streetcars and light rail need to run flat and straight. There are too many turns and grades on this route. It's possible, just undesirable.

 

I've never been a fan of the route up Vine, preferred Clifton but understand the feasibility problems, and feel that Gilbert would be a bit out of the way (while it would hit some nice places, as a resident of University Heights I still think I'd take the bus down Clifton over a Gilbert Ave. Streetcar).  The hill on Vine seems like it'd make it tough to stand up/not get sick if it were taken at any speed.

 

Of course, any development along Gilbert could easily change my mind.  The beautiful art-deco theater at the corner of McMillan is the first thing that comes to mind.  I have no idea what renovations over the years have done, but a small theater with a few bars below could be a hit. 

I'm a bit surprised to see they're not putting a line along Calhoun, seems a route along that street would be very successful.

I'd love to see it go up Gilbert, but I'm not unbiased - that would bring it within a few minutes' walk of my house!

 

At this point with stimulus dollars clearly going elsewhere (Metro), have we determined that there will be no streetcar stimulus money?

Because they're mutually exclusive...  :roll:

Newport's on board

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090323/NEWS01/303230081&s=d&page=#pluckcomments

Brad, here is the route superimposed on the photo you had.  There has to be a better photo out there than this one because the line looks pretty diminutive on this one.

 

 

This study is so great. To me it suggests that the Downtown/OTR streetcar loop wants to keep going west on McMicken to Central Parkway in the first phase. And from there, to the West Side or Northside or both. You want to be running with the grain of where the buildings are.

 

This illustration explains the logic of the Mount Auburn Tunnel. Imagine going from Fountain Square (about where the black-walled 580 Building is to the south) up Main through OTR and under Mount Auburn to the green loop at University Plaza -- in eight minutes!

 

Building the tunnel is the only way to get a one-seat ride to UC. Otherwise, you're getting off light rail on Gilbert or Reading and getting on something else for the last mile. People won't like it.

 

Christ Hospital could host a station in its basement. Three light rail lines -- the Central, Northeast, and Eastern Corridors -- could all use the tunnel. There would be a train every three or four minutes at rush hour between UC and Downtown. It would be a different kind of city.

 

Newport's on board

 

 

And Covington votes tonight!

Have there been any studies on the cost of a Mount Auburn Tunnel?

http://www.wlwt.com/money/18996181/detail.html

 

"One stimulus project that appears to be moving forward, but on a separate track, is the streetcar proposal.

 

Mayor Mark Mallory conveyed that the $12 million project is a priority for Cincinnati when he met with the Obama administration a few weeks ago. Mallory could hear any day now whether the project is a go.

 

But what happens if the streetcar proposal makes it onto the November ballot and voters reject it?

 

"The projects stands on its own," said Stiles. "Council has given us direction to move forward with it. We think it's a tremendous economic development project. We don't have to apologize to anybody for it.""

WOW!  I didn't know Covington and Newport were even considering these resolutions.  I know it doesn't mean much, but by alligning themselves with Cincy, it creates a unified basin.  And that is a BIG DEAL!!!!

 

I'm guessing a future Covington connection would have to use the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge?

Soapbox story on the Streetcar:

 

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/streetcar0324.aspx?utm_campaign=New%20view&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_term=Dohoney%3A%20Streetcar%20would%20help%20create%20%27a%20city%20that%20people%20choose%27

WOW!  I didn't know Covington and Newport were even considering these resolutions.  I know it doesn't mean much, but by alligning themselves with Cincy, it creates a unified basin.   And that is a BIG DEAL!!!!

 

I'm guessing a future Covington connection would have to use the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge?

 

Agreed... This is great news.

 

Clay Wade Bailey would be the most logical choice, although if the Brent Spence is retained and converted for use by local traffic (with I-71/75 using a new span), that could also be an option.

Proposals for a streetcar network in NKY has been floated for years. The Clay Wade Bailey was once a suggested routing of the streetcar into Cincinnati, but the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet all but killed the idea since there is not adequate room for two streetcar tracks. A new bridge would need to be constructed.

Wasn't the transit center under 2nd Street constructed in a way that it could be reconfigured to handle light rail/streetcars that could exit the tunnel and still have room to make the turn onto the Bailey Bridge?

http://www.wlwt.com/money/18996181/detail.html

 

"One stimulus project that appears to be moving forward, but on a separate track, is the streetcar proposal.

 

Mayor Mark Mallory conveyed that the $12 million project is a priority for Cincinnati when he met with the Obama administration a few weeks ago. Mallory could hear any day now whether the project is a go.

 

But what happens if the streetcar proposal makes it onto the November ballot and voters reject it?

 

"The projects stands on its own," said Stiles. "Council has given us direction to move forward with it. We think it's a tremendous economic development project. We don't have to apologize to anybody for it.""

 

12 Million?

 

I love the attitude from Stiles though.

Wasn't the transit center under 2nd Street constructed in a way that it could be reconfigured to handle light rail/streetcars that could exit the tunnel and still have room to make the turn onto the Bailey Bridge?

 

It was designed for light/heavy rail usage, but it was not designed for the Bailey Bridge. By the time the Fort Washington Way project was under construction, it had been decided that the bridge could not be used.

Proposals for a streetcar network in NKY has been floated for years. The Clay Wade Bailey was once a suggested routing of the streetcar into Cincinnati, but the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet all but killed the idea since there is not adequate room for two streetcar tracks. A new bridge would need to be constructed.

 

If that's the case, then it seems sensible that the Brent Spence Bridge be kept intact and adapted for transit use once the new span is built to carry I-71 and I-75. Brent Spence's lower level could be used for streetcars and light rail to Covington, and the upper level for local street traffic. From everything I've read about the Brent Spence replacement project, it seems as if the bridge is still structurally sound despite the capacity issues. It would be a shame to knock down a perfectly good bridge that could be adapted for transit use.

 

Alternately, the new Brent Spence replacement bridge could be designed to include provisions for future streetcar / light rail tracks... I'm not sure how much I trust the local politicians to do the sensible thing, though.

Amazing news about Newport!  I hope that Covington follows suit tonight.

 

"The projects stands on its own," said Stiles. "Council has given us direction to move forward with it. We think it's a tremendous economic development project. We don't have to apologize to anybody for it.""

 

Strong language by Stiles.  I love it!

 

 

Proposals for a streetcar network in NKY has been floated for years. The Clay Wade Bailey was once a suggested routing of the streetcar into Cincinnati, but the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet all but killed the idea since there is not adequate room for two streetcar tracks. A new bridge would need to be constructed.

 

Why couldn't it just run in a one directional loop from Cincy, over one of Newport's 2 bridges, across the 4th Street bridge from Newport to Covington, and then back across the Clay Wade Bailey to Cincy?

^

 

The problem is, you have to travel out-of-direction a lot, probably half the time. Say traffic goes south through Newport and north through Covington back to Cincinnati. If I'm in Covington and want to go to Newport, I have to travel through Cincinnati to get there.

 

I'm pretty sure you want two-way travel if it's really going to be useful to people other than tourists.

Why couldn't it just run in a one directional loop from Cincy, over one of Newport's 2 bridges, across the 4th Street bridge from Newport to Covington, and then back across the Clay Wade Bailey to Cincy?

 

It would be fine for people using the streetcar to travel from Newport to Covington, but it wouldn't make sense for people going the other way to have to go all the way through Cincinnati and cross the river twice (or vice-versa if the streetcar ran in the opposite direction). Any streetcar loop encompassing that large of an area would need to be two-way and double-tracked. Any single-track portion would be a huge bottleneck, and would make the streetcar less convenient for riders.

Look here to see an example of an inconvenient trip from Covington to Newport.  A streetcar route would have to be planned better, and it would be. 

 

John S's comment regarding the housing density on a western uptown connector vs Vine or Gilbert was spot on.