I thought UC shut down its power plant a few years ago due to inefficiency and the relative cost to purchasing.  Is it up and running again?  Would the relatively little electricity the Streetcar would require to run be nearly enough to justify using it again?

At this point you could power the streetcar with all the hot air from the COAST crowd.

But here's another possible solution: What if UC generated the extra power required to run the Streetcar at its Corryville natural gas power plant?  That would completely eliminate "environmental sustainability" argument.  UC supports the Streetcar so they might actually go along with it and sell the power to the City at the same cost as Duke, and I'm sure they have the capacity to generate the negligible amount of power required

 

That is a fantastic idea!  Natural gas is the cleanest of all non-renewables

At this point you could power the streetcar with all the hot air from the COAST crowd.

 

Isn't that the truth!

When all of the energy prices started to rise a couple years ago, UC did shut down the plant even though they had just finished a big expansion. It was a part of the numerous budget 'crisis' of the decade as well.

When all of the energy prices started to rise a couple years ago, UC did shut down the plant even though they had just finished a big expansion. It was a part of the numerous budget 'crisis' of the decade as well.

 

Which begs the question, why didn't The Cincinnati Beacon blast UC for shutting down the plant and becoming a "coal-burning university in disguise" ?

No way the power for this project comes from anyone but Duke with their existing contribution to the project.

^ I was going to say that as well.

If it was workable, you could probably do some sort of deal with Duke, UC, and the streetcar to make it work, i.e. UC puts enough power into the Duke grid to power the streetcar and they both claim credit for it as an in kind donation.

^^^Good point, but just for the sake of argument, new development in and around OTR would use a lot of Duke Energy-supplied power that wouldn't otherwise be needed.

No way the power for this project comes from anyone but Duke with their existing contribution to the project.

 

If UC isn't currently using the plant at all, perhaps a deal could be reached where UC would contract Duke and its employees to run the plant.

local Libertarian talking points:

Chris Finney from COAST came to the April 9th Hamilton County meeting to present the case for explicit voter approval for any city funds going to the proposed street car initiative. Several quick points:

1) The city could end up spending a lot of money on preliminary studies and planning, and not get a dime of federal stimulus money to implement this. Federal funding has not been confirmed and the city council has no right to gamble with the peoples tax dollars.

2) If you think that the inner city neighborhood that this passes through will be positively impacted by this, be advised that the NAACP is against the project.

3) If you think that this has any potential to significantly reduce pollution by getting cars off the streets and expanding mass transit be advised that the Green Party is against this.

4) The city is facing declining revenues from the recession and is certain to face budget shortfalls. Any money wagered on this would be better spent on the general budget and necessary services.

When all of the energy prices started to rise a couple years ago, UC did shut down the plant even though they had just finished a big expansion. It was a part of the numerous budget 'crisis' of the decade as well.

Which begs the question, why didn't The Cincinnati Beacon blast UC for shutting down the plant and becoming a "coal-burning university in disguise" ?

They didn't know.

The Beacon gets it's info from the rumors on the street. The majority of what they talk about is probably best described as "urban myth".

Think: Alex Jones.

local Libertarian talking points:

Chris Finney from COAST came to the April 9th Hamilton County meeting to present the case for explicit voter approval for any city funds going to the proposed street car initiative. Several quick points:

1) The city could end up spending a lot of money on preliminary studies and planning, and not get a dime of federal stimulus money to implement this. Federal funding has not been confirmed and the city council has no right to gamble with the peoples tax dollars.

2) If you think that the inner city neighborhood that this passes through will be positively impacted by this, be advised that the NAACP is against the project.

3) If you think that this has any potential to significantly reduce pollution by getting cars off the streets and expanding mass transit be advised that the Green Party is against this.

4) The city is facing declining revenues from the recession and is certain to face budget shortfalls. Any money wagered on this would be better spent on the general budget and necessary services.

 

1) By that logic, no city project would get off the ground, ever. (This is the unspoken aim of the BANANA crowd: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone)

2) The local NAACP seems to be run by self-aggrandizing idiots who seem more interested in political posturing than in seeing any real progress being made.

3) Ditto the Green Party. They won't be happy unless the streetcar is powered by hemp and operated by vegans. Even then they'd probably find some reason to oppose it.

4) "Necessary services" include effective public transit. An economic downturn is exactly the right time to be investing in public infrastructure. Construction costs are lower, people need jobs, and the city will be more attractive for investment when the economy improves.

 

COAST = FAIL

It should be noted that the much more respected environmental group Sierra Club is in favor of the proposed streetcar project.

BANANA crowd: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone)

 

Ohhhh haha, that is a good one!  Haven't heard that before! I will be using that quite a bit this weekend.  Thanks!

They're an extreme version of the more common NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) crowd... I think the people who would actually have the streetcar in their "back yard" are overwhelmingly in favor of the project.

I think I've captured most, if not all, of the light rail discussion. I've gone ahead ahead and created a separate thread for it given this thread's huge size and scope. You can find the newly created "Cincinnati Light Rail News" thread here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9.0.html

^

 

I wouldn't separate them. They're similar discussions, similar issues, probably the same people interested in both.

Next the Beacon will raise this danger of streetcar catenary

Charlie Winburn is a lunatic.

 

This streetcar system is not sustainable for public safety and security. This is a major issue facing our city. Over-the-Rhine is our number one crime neighborhood. Out of the 10 most violent blocks in Cincinnati, five of them are in Over-the-Rhine. Too many people just don’t feel safe coming downtown. So it’s naïve and wishful thinking to expect the streetcar will be overflowing with riders who want to ride this 3.9-mile track to and from downtown, while it travels through Over-the-Rhine. Who wants to ride a choo-choo train to a land of rape, murder, robbery and aggravated assault? Yeah, let’s go!

 

I find it unfortunate that every time I try to comment on the Beacon's posting of this article, I am told that "I didn't enter the word verification exactly as shown". 

 

I guess Im blind

The same failed arguments that have been raised against almost every mass transit project for the past 70 years. Translation: "The [train/metro/subway/light rail/streetcar] won't work because white people won't ride with those other people who aren't white."

The same failed arguments that have been raised against almost every mass transit project for the past 70 years. Translation: "The [train/metro/subway/light rail/streetcar] won't work because white people won't ride with those other people who aren't white."

 

Problem is that it's mostly true in Cincinnati

I had a few people request a map with Portland's streetcar route superimposed over Cincinnati.  If you haven't been there, it's tough to really picture how and why Portland's route curves around the way it does.  Also the map below does not differentiate between sections where two tracks run on a single street and the two short sections where there is single-track operation.  Wikipedia states that a round-trip in Portland is 7.8 miles, although the total amount of track is probably around 7.2 miles due to the two short single-track sections. 

 

Portland's route between the South Waterfront and the Pearl District "elbow" is 2.6 miles.  The elbow itself is 3/4 mile long. In the third example I straightened the elbow to illustrate that Portland's existing system is almost long enough to travel between The Banks and Xavier University. 

 

Here is Portland's route map:

 

Here is a literal overlay:

 

Here I flipped the track route so as to cover more of the uptown area:

 

Here I straightened the elbow and you can see that it stretches just past Forest Ave. in Avondale:

 

http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDetail.htm/2009/04/17/Portland-gets-federal-transportation-kudos-But-will-the-city-get-stimulus-money-to-fund-its-streetca

 

Cincinnati has funding for about half of the roughly $130 million project, said Michael Moore, director of the city's transportation and engineering department. Federal stimulus money "would be a huge boost to us," he said.

 

 

John how many times has the Portland streetcar been extended to reach this length?

Four phases, with construction starting in 1999. The first two phases opened together in 2001. The last phase probably opened in 2007. Now they are taking it across the Willamette - another 3.3 miles on top or the 7.9 miles on the ground now. They have plans for about fifty miles of streetcar lines throughout the city. Except in Southwest Portland -- too hilly.

http://thephonyconey.blogspot.com/

 

Discuss.

Heh... I think I like this "Provost" guy.

 

If I move back to Cincinnati, I guess I'll have to start calling myself The Chancellor of Cincinnati.

 

In related news, I got into a minor pissing match with The Dean™ of Cincinnati over on Daily Kos.

phoneyconey = hilarious.

 

http://theblackfistblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/tbfb-investigates-smitherman-scares.html

 

Here's a report on Chris Smitherman's antics:

The Black Fist Blog (TBFB) has received many reports over the last several days that Christopher Smitherman (As of today known on this blog with the expressed combined permission from the administrators of the Cincinnati Black Blog and The Black Fist Blog to be renamed "SillySnake" . A combination of "Sillyman" and "The Snake in a Suit") has been slithering around area Senior Citizen Centers/Facilities scaring the living daylights out of our precious senior citizens regarding Cincinnati City Councils proposed building of a Streetcar in downtown Cincinnati. A Streetcar the NAACP likes to cleverly call (yawn...) the "Choo-Choo Train".

 

TBFB has also learned that the language used by SillySnake in his rhetorical aim at our senior citizen in an attempt to get them to sign the NAACP Streetcar Petition is downright out-of-control, if not (as has been reported) flat-out frightening!!!

 

To think that SillySnake is slithering in and out of area Senior Citizen Facilities/Centers and comparing the building of a proposed Streetcar to "The Great Depression", and to (as has been reported) outright tell to our precious senior citizens that to NOT sign the NAACP Streetcar Petition would be something close to signing on to one of the "Greatest Economic Tragedies" since "The Great Depression" is at the least irresponsible, and at the most could be classified as (mental) elder abuse.

 

Some of these fragile senior citizens that Sillysnake is lecturing to were grown men and women during the ACTUAL great depression. They lived through some of the worse economic times that only you & I can imagine. And for Sillysnake to compare his vindictive personal agenda against The Democratic Party, Mayor Mark Mallory and Cincinnati City Council, i.e. the proposed building of the Streetcar shows just how low this klown has sunk.

 

The lowdown antics, rhetoric and personal vindictiveness of The Sillysnake is playing itself out before the eyes of Cincinnati, Hamilton County, The State of Ohio and The National NAACP.

 

We here at The Black Fist Blog are just incredibly sorry that one of our most precious resources, our senior citizens, are now caught up, bullied, terrorized and frightened by a Sillysnake's Web of Personal Vindictiveness.

Happy Earth Day Streetcar Supporters!!

 

Keep up the great work!  :-)

I'm really starting to be believe that Smitherman is on someone's payroll to cause trouble. Sadly, the GOP would seem the most likely. Rizzo did this during the 1970s in Philly (Hardy Williams for the Philly politics geeks).

You're probably right... Smitherman is certainly acting as if he's a shill for somebody who doesn't have the community's best interests at heart. I wonder if the national NAACP has any authority to step in and clean house at the Cincinnati chapter?

 

The Dean™ of Cincinnati, on the other hand, seems more concerned about his own self-promotion as a perpetual gadfly than he does about any greater cause. Given The Dean™ of Cincinnati's track record with every other issue he's taken on, though, I'm actually rather hopeful about the streetcar project... He seems to have sort of a reverse Midas touch. I'd be far more worried about the streetcar if The Dean™ of Cincinnati was on our side.

^The Dean would be in favor of the streetcar proposal if Smitherman was.  They support light rail because Smitherman claims he does.  When Smitherman was originally elected to city council, he claimed to be in support of the Eastern Corridor plan.  Well, there really isn't too clear of a plan for the eastern corridor either for the new highway or a light rail or commuter rail component. 

Pawns!

^The Dean would be in favor of the streetcar proposal if Smitherman was. They support light rail because Smitherman claims he does. When Smitherman was originally elected to city council, he claimed to be in support of the Eastern Corridor plan. Well, there really isn't too clear of a plan for the eastern corridor either for the new highway or a light rail or commuter rail component.

 

I don't see how anyone in favor of this amendment can honestly claim they support light rail

Just when things were getting boring: http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/04/local-black-community-turning-on.html

The plot thickens...

I ran into a COAST petitioner at Mt. Lookout Square last night around 2:30.  They seem like they are trying to get people to sign after a few drinks late at night.  Very underhanded tactics!  The guy asked my friends and I if I wanted to sign a petition about the "Trolley"  I told them not to sign it and told him to take a hike.  It worries me that this is their strategy.

The Cincinnati Blog is reporting that COAST got a $3000 contribution from the local NAACP chapter.

The "Streetcar wedding" couple just informed me that their guests' contributions, totaling $6700, have now been deposited in the city's account.  This means that there is probably about $10,000 in the Streetcar private donations account right now.

That won't even pay a weeks overtime necessary for the extra police to keep the homeless from moving in!

That won't even pay a weeks overtime necessary for the extra police to keep the homeless from moving in!

 

Please...indulge me...how would the streetcar allow the homeless to move in?

So what's the big deal?  How credible is that source anyway?  Is that Portland's version of our Beacon?

Daily readership of what.......22 people?

 

Looking at Portland's ridership numbers, it doesn't seem to be a problem that is keeping people from riding.

 

 

DanB, your slippin!! :-D      That sounds like a very Happ-ish argument or fear!

I'd just like to point out that it doesn't appear that Cincinnati would have a "fareless square", so the odds of someone getting on without paying a fare would be much slimmer.  If someone does pay the fare and they aren't bothering anyone, that should be all that matters.

The Beacon in fact posted that blurb a few months ago. 

 

>which serves about 12,600 riders a day

 

So DanB, how many more riders would the Portland Streetcar attract if the homeless were kicked off?  How many riders are necessary for you to consider the Portland Streetcar a success?  The Cincinnati Streetcar?

Incidentally The Beacon claimed they were going to contact Skoda to get the specs on the cars, insinuating that that they can't climb the Vine St. hill, despite the city's feasibility study stating clearly that they were chosen partly for this very reason.  Well, we haven't heard back from The Beacon, which leads me to believe they got an answer from the manufacturer that they didn't like. 

Hey, I'm not the one who has posted the reasons why people won't ride busses.  Sounds the same to me.