October 30, 200915 yr Good lord. Today's press announcement at city hall was a joke. I hope the film crew got the spat. ??? Was someone spat upon?
October 30, 200915 yr What are we talking about? I haven't seen any news from the presser in any of the usual sources yet.
October 30, 200915 yr it was pretty unbelieveable.... Wait, you were there? Who were you?? Didn't see you there! :( (I was the guy with the camera and the yellow bag.)
October 30, 200915 yr Can someone please explain what happened instead of talking around it.... please??
October 30, 200915 yr (...pauses a moment to look up the word "obstreperous"... Ok, done.) That's pretty rich, considering the source.
October 30, 200915 yr Tom Luken, along with Issue 9 supporters, held a press conference on the steps of City Hall at noon. Questions were asked, and Luken pretty much did not answer any of them, short of telling us to shut up because we were grandstanding. I asked a question regarding his definition of a transportation need and investment, and he rattled on about spending and something totally irrelevant. As I was getting ready to put my gear away, a spat occurred. A "pro-9" individual was pressing his sign against an "anti-9" individual, who then turned to push the sign away. The "pro-9" guy then shouted of abuse and shouted that he was going to call for a lawyer. All the while the film crews were running right in front of him.
October 30, 200915 yr I was deemed "obstreperous" by former Congressman Luken Oh! You are the guy from Soapbox?
October 30, 200915 yr I was deemed "obstreperous" by former Congressman Luken Oh! You are the guy from Soapbox? yup
October 30, 200915 yr One of the three speakers at the "Yes on 9" news conference today was Tom Luken, who tried to establish his street cred with the reporters by telling them that he once served as Chairman of the House Transportation Committee during his sixteen years in Congress. If I were Luken, I wouldn't be bragging about his former stewardship of our nation's transportation policy, such as it was. I mean, think about it, the Seventies and Eighties was the period when sprawl in America was supercharged by the acts of Congress. That's when suburban and exurban development that has robbed our cities of their people and wealth really started to take flight. Even the rail systems built during that period were pretty marginal by today's standards. Watching him up there on the steps of City Hall today, where he once served as one of Cincinnati's least memorable mayors, I felt sorry for him.
October 30, 200915 yr Author Please anyone who was there correct me if I am wrong on any of these points, but Mr. Luken also stated: *the streetcar would cost between $3-4 billion *the yes on nine people didn't have any signs despite the fact there were a half dozen signs directly behind him *he didn't know the difference between direct and representative democracy.
October 30, 200915 yr Luken made a bigger fool of himself today than he did on Newsmakers. He asked questions from the audience and refused to answer any of them. There was also a funny moment when COAST got called out for having a bus on their "anti-streetcar" sign. When asked if the picture on the sign was a bus or a streetcar, the COASTers started chanting "streetcar, streetcar". Sure looks like tires to me.
October 30, 200915 yr Why are people making a big deal out of "it's a bus not a streetcar?" It's looks like an old fashioned streetcar to me, but not a bus.
October 30, 200915 yr This is what COAST has on their signs: That's a bus, not a trolley or a streetcar.
October 30, 200915 yr To ride on rails, a vehicle needs flanged steel wheels. The picture on COAST's signs is clearly a rubber-tired tourist bus.
October 30, 200915 yr Author Why are people making a big deal out of "it's a bus not a streetcar?" It's looks like an old fashioned streetcar to me, but not a bus. Because Cincinnati is planning on building modern streetcars, not old fashioned streetcars and not decorated buses as the sign depicts. The sign is intentionally deceptive.
October 30, 200915 yr Why are people making a big deal out of "it's a bus not a streetcar?" It's looks like an old fashioned streetcar to me, but not a bus. Except that it clearly has rubber tires.
October 30, 200915 yr But it's a bus made to look like an old streetcar. I think it's more that COAST couldn't find anyone with any graphic ability, so they used a piece of clip art or something, rather than a mistake or intent of some kind.
October 30, 200915 yr Author But it's a bus made to look like an old streetcar. I think it's more that COAST couldn't find anyone with any graphic ability, so they used a piece of clip art or something, rather than a mistake or intent of some kind. Last yard sign post. They're yard sign is the same concept as this:
October 30, 200915 yr Whether those trolley buses are called streetcars or buses is irrelevant. It's all about definitions. On the other hand, the irony is that the text of issue 9 says "rail", and the anti-9 signs have a picture of a vehicle that is clearly not a rail vehicle. Under the Ohio Revised Code, bus companies and streetcar companies are distinguished by whether or not they are confined to fixed routes. Trolley buses, which are vehicles that run off of overhead wires but have rubber wheels, are known as "Trackless Trolleys" and are treated the same as streetcars that run on rail.
October 30, 200915 yr Tempers rise in rail/street car debate The hardest-fought local race on Cincinnati's ballot nearly ended in a fight Friday when one side in the Issue 9 campaign ambushed the other's news conference, triggering shouting and a brief scuffle. The combustible scene outside Cincinnati City Hall came as Issue 9 adversaries made their final pitches over the proposed charter amendment to require public votes before the city spends any money on a streetcar or future passenger rail plans
October 30, 200915 yr Enquirer's "coverage" of today's City Hall events. *Edit - Didn't see Sherman's post ^... "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 30, 200915 yr Enquirer's "coverage" of today's City Hall events. this is the same thing as Shermie posted (the post before yours). Is there something I'm missing?
October 30, 200915 yr "We've never gone to any of their events, not once," said Mark Miller of the Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes. "If they hadn't shown up at ours, this wouldn't have happened." Yes, blame Cincinnatians for Progress for the fact that a We Demand A Vote member pushed a "Yes on 9" sign in front of CfP.
October 30, 200915 yr Please anyone who was there correct me if I am wrong on any of these points, but Mr. Luken also stated: (...) *he didn't know the difference between direct and representative democracy. I was deemed "obstreperous" by former Congressman Luken
October 30, 200915 yr Author Everybody come down to neons right now (7PM till 1am) for the no on 9 party
October 31, 200915 yr Tom Luken says that the streetcar proposal is bad because it's taken too long to study, and council has been "kicking it around for years". Maybe he should've asked Mark Miller, who explained that any rail transportation plan that's "any good" will "take years to get off the ground." It's also funny that part of Luken's speech is drowned out by a passing bus. You would still be able to hear him if a nearly-silent modern streetcar was passing by.
October 31, 200915 yr Please anyone who was there correct me if I am wrong on any of these points, but Mr. Luken also stated: (...) *the yes on nine people didn't have any signs despite the fact there were a half dozen signs directly behind him
October 31, 200915 yr Please anyone who was there correct me if I am wrong on any of these points, but Mr. Luken also stated: *the streetcar would cost between $3-4 billion
October 31, 200915 yr Thanks Travis for putting those together. Looks like only one news channel aired a story on the press conference, and it's very mild: http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story/Issue-9-Cincinnatians-Consider-Right-To-Vote-On/YAMxEu_euUi20aZS73eZbQ.cspx
October 31, 200915 yr Videos from Travis: COAST can't get their facts straight! Tom Luken doesn't know the difference between a direct democracy and a representative democracy Tom Luken lies about the cost of the Cincinnati Streetcar proposal Tom Luken doesn't know what a "sign" is My photos from the event. Help me ID these people! 1 2 God bless, amen. *nods head, smiles* 3 4 Tom Luken 5 Guy holding the "Don't Tread On Me" banner. 6 Tom Luken 7 The guy who was yelling for a lawyer and for this guy to get off of him. Even Mark Miller was backing away and calling on COAST to get him out of the spotlight. 8 Jim something, former Vice Mayor of Cincinnati 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Tom Luken 16 AMEN!
October 31, 200915 yr Gotta love the diversity of that COAST gang. They've got middle-aged white guys from Anderson Township, West Chester, Sharonville, Fairfield, and Hyde Park!
October 31, 200915 yr ^The guy in 1 and 9 is Bobby Maly, co-chairman of CFP. I have no clue who any of the COAST people are.
October 31, 200915 yr Gotta love the diversity of that COAST gang. They've got middle-aged white guys from Anderson Township, West Chester, Sharonville, Fairfield, and Hyde Park! ...and how many of those people can actually vote on Issue 9?
October 31, 200915 yr I'm convinced this amendment is doomed to pass. I was talking with a "friend" today who had just voted by absentee Friday. She said these two sentences... "The streetcar is going to cost a billion dollars!" "I want to be able to vote anytime the government wants to spend tax money." *sigh* "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 31, 200915 yr Mob Rule Ochlocracy (Greek: οχλοκρατία or okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) is government by mob or a mass of people, or the intimidation of constitutional authorities. In English, the word mobocracy is sometimes used as a synonym. As a pejorative for majoritarianism, it is akin to the Latin phrase mobile vulgus meaning "the fickle crowd," from which the term "mob" originally derives. As a term in civics it implies that there is no formal authority whatsoever, not even a commonly accepted view of anarchism, and so disputes are raised, contended and closed by brute force − might makes right, but only in a very local and temporary way, as another mob or another mood might just as easily sway a decision. It is often associated with demagoguery and the rule of passion over reason. It may be considered an ad hoc democracy. The framers of the Constitution knew what they were doing when they crated a representative republic instead of a direct democracy. It's unfortunate that Ohio state law doesn't take those lessons into account.
October 31, 200915 yr ...and how many of those people can actually vote on Issue 9? Gotta love the diversity of that COAST gang. They've got middle-aged white guys from Anderson Township, West Chester, Sharonville, Fairfield, and Hyde Park! And the NO group has you, a middle age somebody from Northern Kentucky via NYC who can't vote either!
October 31, 200915 yr ^ You forget the time I spent living in Chicago. As such, I have a number of deceased Cincinnati relatives casting "No on 9" votes on my behalf.
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