Question. Why did Boise get 65 million and Cincinnati get 25 million? Is their other additional funds Cincy can get next year?

^ Boise didn't get $65 million from the Feds. There's really no firm plan or consensus there. Supported by the mayor but otherwise a lot of opposition including from the newspaper, especially the newspaper.

Sheriff Leis supports the streetcar- http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100726/EDIT02/7270358/Sheriff-Leis-I-support-streetcars

 

Holy crap ... That was a great article. The reason is, he doesn't try to sound overly intelligent on the issue and doesn't blabber on about overly used terminology.

 

Leis gets straight to the point - no B.S. ... he states he went to Portland, it's very similar with Cincy, and he liked it because of this, this, and this.

 

Good stuff!

Maybe if Leis leads, the rest of the Bombers involved in running in Cincinnati will come around. 

Leis is a folkhero to Hamilton County conservatives.  His endorsment may make some rethink their opposition.

^ This is why we take people to Portland, though Sheriff Leis was already out there for a law enforcement convention when I met up with him. He was Visitor # 402. Seeing is believing.

^ I think Leis lost some following after his proposed jail tax, ala the COAST comment. 

 

If it was Sheriff Jones of Butler County, on the other hand, coming out and complimenting Cincinnati's plan, he'd bring a hoard of supporters. 

Portland is such a strange city to visit for Cincinnatians.  It immediately strikes you as incredibly similar to Cincinnati, yet they are doing so much better.  Cincinnati's enormous potential is so clear when you are in Portland.  I havent been there in about 5 years, but will be making two trips there over then next 3 months.  I am excited.

^ I've been going there long enough to remember when it wasn't such a great place. Turned around totally in fifteen years.

Visited PDX in Nov. of 2008...just thought of Cincy's potential the whole time as it related to PDX's progress.

Mr. Luken's response to Sheriff Leis' streetcar op-ed http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/07/27/leis-streetcar-nostalgia-ignores-some-facts/

Mr. Luken's response to Sheriff Leis' streetcar op-ed http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/07/27/leis-streetcar-nostalgia-ignores-some-facts/

This is a laughably ignorant quote:

 

"The sheriff is infatuated with the idea that he will ride his streetcar magic ride “from the courthouse to Findlay Market for lunch.” For lunch? Are we really concerned about how the sheriff gets out to lunch. Is it a guarantee of Cincinnati citizenship that the public provides each citizen the lunch routine of his fastidious choice?"

 

That's so easy to take down I won't even waste my time doing it.

Tom is not an expert either. Can't some people just realize they are being a nagging thorn than anything else.

Tom is actually an expert.  He spent a decade negotiating the public takeover of the Cincinnati Transit Company and the formation of SORTA.  He plays the politics of decline and so he wants decline. He's unelectable at this point so his recent activities show a level and type of ego that is simply unfathomable to any ordinary person. 

Mr. Luken's response to Sheriff Leis' streetcar op-ed http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/07/27/leis-streetcar-nostalgia-ignores-some-facts/

 

Today's been a bad day, thanks for posting this, I needed a good laugh. The comedic stylings of Tom Luken always crack me up. Luken is one of my favorite stand up comedians. Some times I actually think the man believes the jokes and goofy stories he's telling. What a hoot.

Somebody at the Enquirer must have Tom Luken's number on speed-dial. Any time there's an op-ed or news item that's even slightly positive about the streetcar, we can count on Luken's response in the form of an incoherent screed within 24 hours. It's like clockwork.

 

Mr. Luken's response to Sheriff Leis' streetcar op-ed http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2010/07/27/leis-streetcar-nostalgia-ignores-some-facts/

I can't deal with these angry anti-streetcar letters anymore.  They are all the same.  "Why are we using outdated technology", "Streetcars went away for a reason," "Lets test out painted buses first", blah blah blah.  Hopefully initial construction can start soon so these people can stop writing this mumbo jumbo.

^ We need to keep dealing with them. The wisest person I know reminded me today that "we're running a marathon here, not a sprint."

^ We need to keep dealing with them. The wisest person I know reminded me today that "we're running a marathon here, not a sprint."

I hear ya.  I'm very appreciative of all the hard work everyone's done so far.  Just gotta keep on moving forward

Awesome signature quote by the way. 

Tom is actually an expert. He spent a decade negotiating the public takeover of the Cincinnati Transit Company and the formation of SORTA. He plays the politics of decline and so he wants decline. He's unelectable at this point so his recent activities show a level and type of ego that is simply unfathomable to any ordinary person.

Im talking about streetcar(rail).

^ Boise didn't get $65 million from the Feds. There's really no firm plan or consensus there. Supported by the mayor but otherwise a lot of opposition including from the newspaper, especially the newspaper.

I am 100% sure they got 65 million in March.

^ You're probably thinking about Tucson, which got $63 million earlier this year.

 

  ^--- The social and political aspects of the streetcar are just as important as the technical aspects.

 

 

   

When are we going to hear about fares?  Is there any chance it will be free?

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

 

There is also the possibility that the Streetcar, the 85, the New 1 and the New 46 will have a lower "circulator" fare that would be different from the Zone 1 fare.

^ We need to keep dealing with them. The wisest person I know reminded me today that "we're running a marathon here, not a sprint."

Remember, also, some people aren't absorbing any info til they decide to ask, so while you give the same answer time after time it's only sinking in to one or two noggins at a time.

Remember, the folks employing a campaign of FUD (Luken, COA T, GeorgeRemus1...) ad nauseam only hook a couple here & there too, ya just gotta keep repeating yourself.

It reminds me of this scene from "The Candidate" where Redford starts to melt down on the campaign trail.

The Candidate - "Vote once, vote twice, for Bill McKay" Scene

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

 

When I was out there it was free within city limits.  I think this was the best part of it.  You could just hop on anytime, anywhere and not have to worry about getting ticket, etc.  I understand why Cincinnati's can't be free but IMO it will hurt the ridership.  I'd love to take the streetcar up to Findlay Market during lunch but if I have to pay $2 or more to do it I'm not so sure I will.

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

 

There is also the possibility that the Streetcar, the 85, the New 1 and the New 46 will have a lower "circulator" fare that would be different from the Zone 1 fare.

 

.......sounds....a bit confusing.  certainly to the average user.  I mean, I KNOW people I went to school with found the 17/18/19 times confusing so having different fares for different routes would also be...confusing?!?

Here's a recent COAST quote:

 

"Probably because he knows what he is talking about. While mayor, Luken led the buyout of Cincinnati Transit and kept the same low fares for about fifteen years. Later as a congressman, he chaired the powerful House Transportation Subcommittee which controls all motor and rail legislation. He literally set transit policy for the entire nation for over a decade. He is "Mr. Transit" in this town.

 

And he hates the streetcar plan. That should tell you something."

 

The first response to this comment was:

 

"Yes.  That he's a demented old man"

 

Haha.  Anyways, isn't that a flat out lie?  He didn't keep "the same low fares" for 15 years

Well there's some truth to that, he did set a lot of transit policy for decades, although it was some terrible, terrible policy. 

Right, that's like hailing Robert Moses as "Mr. Planner" in NYC.

Great rebuttal against COAST, Jake Mecklenborg.  Well written as usual

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

 

When I was out there it was free within city limits. I think this was the best part of it. You could just hop on anytime, anywhere and not have to worry about getting ticket, etc. I understand why Cincinnati's can't be free but IMO it will hurt the ridership. I'd love to take the streetcar up to Findlay Market during lunch but if I have to pay $2 or more to do it I'm not so sure I will.

Your $2.00 fare would also be good for the return trip. Portland's fares are only free in the downtown, basically between Portland State to the first half of the Pearl District. They have eliminated free fares on downtown buses figuring that now with intersecting N/S and E/W light rail lines, those pretty much cover the downtown circulation function.

 

There's no way Luken could himself set fares, especially for fifteen years, because he only served on City Council for about 8 years, from 1965 to 1973. 

Here's a recent COAST quote:

 

"Probably because he knows what he is talking about. While mayor, Luken led the buyout of Cincinnati Transit and kept the same low fares for about fifteen years. Later as a congressman, he chaired the powerful House Transportation Subcommittee which controls all motor and rail legislation. He literally set transit policy for the entire nation for over a decade. He is "Mr. Transit" in this town.

 

And he hates the streetcar plan. That should tell you something."

 

The first response to this comment was:

 

"Yes. That he's a demented old man"

 

Haha. Anyways, isn't that a flat out lie? He didn't keep "the same low fares" for 15 years

Looks like Stephan Louis may be doing all the commenting for COAST now. The tip-off is his describing Luken as "Mr. Transit." If true, more evidence that COAST is losing horsepower.

I'd imagine that whatever popular support/energy COAST had has been directed toward the insufferable Tea Party movement.

Here's what Steve Chabot wrote on his blog today:

 

"I’ll occasionally get comments or questions about Afghanistan, legalizing marijuana, the Over-the-Rhine streetcar plan, and just about anything else that might be on peoples’ minds."

 

Note the subtle bias.

Here's what Steve Chabot wrote on his blog today:

 

"I’ll occasionally get comments or questions about Afghanistan, legalizing marijuana, the Over-the-Rhine streetcar plan, and just about anything else that might be on peoples’ minds."

 

Note the subtle bias.

 

I'm not picking up on it? Has Chabot ever discussed the streetcar? A quick Google of "Chabot" and "Cincinnati Streetcar" didn't bring up much. 

Here's what Steve Chabot wrote on his blog today:

 

"I’ll occasionally get comments or questions about Afghanistan, legalizing marijuana, the Over-the-Rhine streetcar plan, and just about anything else that might be on peoples’ minds."

 

Note the subtle bias.

 

I'm not picking up on it? Has Chabot ever discussed the streetcar? A quick Google of "Chabot" and "Cincinnati Streetcar" didn't bring up much.

 

I think what John's getting at is that Afghanistan, marijuana legalization aren't typically popular subjects with big support, he's lumping the streetcar plan in with those.

^ Hadn't thought of that angle.

 

Rather than referring to it as the "Downtown-Uptown streetcar" or simply the Cincinnati Streetcar, Chabot's calling it the "Over-the-Rhine streetcar" -- a term that has never been used before -- associates the project with a neighborhood some Cincinnatians fear and have written-off for further investment.

I see.  It was pretty subtle, if intentional.  I see a lot of people have apparently asked him about the streetcar, but I still haven't found any responses from him. I would hope he'd be happy to get federal monies into Cincinnati, and be content with letting local officials figure out the specifics of how to use it.  I might be a bit too optimistic, though.

^ You are optimistic! Chabot co-chaired the PAC formed to defeat MetroMoves in 2002 -- the PAC the Ohio Elections Commission found guilty of violating Ohio's law against making false statements to influence the outcome of an election.

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

 

When I was out there it was free within city limits.  I think this was the best part of it.  You could just hop on anytime, anywhere and not have to worry about getting ticket, etc.  I understand why Cincinnati's can't be free but IMO it will hurt the ridership.  I'd love to take the streetcar up to Findlay Market during lunch but if I have to pay $2 or more to do it I'm not so sure I will.

Your $2.00 fare would also be good for the return trip. Portland's fares are only free in the downtown, basically between Portland State to the first half of the Pearl District. They have eliminated free fares on downtown buses figuring that now with intersecting N/S and E/W light rail lines, those pretty much cover the downtown circulation function.

 

 

So lets just assume that I'd take the streetcar 3 times a week from my work to wherever, that's approximately $25/month.  That is still pretty penny.  Again, I understand the reasons for it but I still think it will affect ridership.  Hopefully not too much though.

 

It's been a while since I've been in Portland but I remember jumping on the streetcar in the middle of downtown (forget what that little square is called) and taking it to the Rose Gardens to watch a basketball game, all for free.  Granted that is just outside of downtown but it was great just being able to jump on and off whenever.

Here's what Steve Chabot wrote on his blog today:

 

"I’ll occasionally get comments or questions about Afghanistan, legalizing marijuana, the Over-the-Rhine streetcar plan, and just about anything else that might be on peoples’ minds."

 

Note the subtle bias.

 

I caught it right away.  Typical politician.  It's like calling the streetcar a trolley.

^ MetroMoves included a local tax raise, though.  As a representative (no matter what party) one should be in favor of federal investment within their district.  I can't find any evidence of him denouncing the streetcar (or supporting it) so I guess that's where my optimism comes from. Either way, I don't think he's going to stand in the way of the project.  Do you see him doing something like that, if he wins (because I think he's most likely going to be elected, since he won't be running against Obama's coattails this time around.. no offense to our other Steve, of course!)

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

 

When I was out there it was free within city limits. I think this was the best part of it. You could just hop on anytime, anywhere and not have to worry about getting ticket, etc. I understand why Cincinnati's can't be free but IMO it will hurt the ridership. I'd love to take the streetcar up to Findlay Market during lunch but if I have to pay $2 or more to do it I'm not so sure I will.

Your $2.00 fare would also be good for the return trip. Portland's fares are only free in the downtown, basically between Portland State to the first half of the Pearl District. They have eliminated free fares on downtown buses figuring that now with intersecting N/S and E/W light rail lines, those pretty much cover the downtown circulation function.

 

 

So lets just assume that I'd take the streetcar 3 times a week from my work to wherever, that's approximately $25/month. That is still pretty penny. Again, I understand the reasons for it but I still think it will affect ridership. Hopefully not too much though.

 

It's been a while since I've been in Portland but I remember jumping on the streetcar in the middle of downtown (forget what that little square is called) and taking it to the Rose Gardens to watch a basketball game, all for free. Granted that is just outside of downtown but it was great just being able to jump on and off whenever.

 

You would have taken their light rail to get across the river

^ I believe Steve Chabot is opposed to rail in Cincinnati regardless of how it is financed. He has, however, voted for other rail projects, including the $1 billion Tren Urbano Light Rail in San Juan, P.R.

 

Cincinnatians have seen him on the Washington Metro.

^ No chance it will be free. I'm guessing a two-hour pass for the streetcar will equal the cost of a one-way Metro fare within the city limits = $1.75, probably $2.00 by the time the service opens in April, 2013.

How much was Portland's when it began? How much is it now?

 

When I was out there it was free within city limits. I think this was the best part of it. You could just hop on anytime, anywhere and not have to worry about getting ticket, etc. I understand why Cincinnati's can't be free but IMO it will hurt the ridership. I'd love to take the streetcar up to Findlay Market during lunch but if I have to pay $2 or more to do it I'm not so sure I will.

Your $2.00 fare would also be good for the return trip. Portland's fares are only free in the downtown, basically between Portland State to the first half of the Pearl District. They have eliminated free fares on downtown buses figuring that now with intersecting N/S and E/W light rail lines, those pretty much cover the downtown circulation function.

 

 

So lets just assume that I'd take the streetcar 3 times a week from my work to wherever, that's approximately $25/month. That is still pretty penny. Again, I understand the reasons for it but I still think it will affect ridership. Hopefully not too much though.

 

It's been a while since I've been in Portland but I remember jumping on the streetcar in the middle of downtown (forget what that little square is called) and taking it to the Rose Gardens to watch a basketball game, all for free. Granted that is just outside of downtown but it was great just being able to jump on and off whenever.

 

You would have taken their light rail to get across the river

 

Pardon my ignorance, but would I have hopped on the streetcar and then it essentially "becomes" light rail or is it two different systems altogether?  The line that I was on went all through downtown and one stop was the Rose Gardens but I really don't know how light rail and streetcar differ.