I really hope ODOT screwed up the file name and that we didn't send an application for the Cicinnati Streetcar to the Federal Government.

 

It could have been worse; at least it wasn’t for the “Cincinatti Streetcar.”

Actually I think the patronage of the Clifton Kroger (especially after it's rebuilt) could be very significant since OTR's Kroger sucks.  Also, the main point is serving UC and the hospitals.  There's a lot of students who live on campus, most of which are along the Jefferson Avenue side.  Those are the most captive transit riders there are, since they're much less likely to have access to a car than the ones living off campus.  Also as I've said before, a route that's nowhere near east campus means much less reverse commuting of lower-income workers to that area, though there may still be some to west campus. 

 

I don't see how a Clifton route would be any closer to Urban Outfitters or even Uptown Commons (though it's such a long parcel of land it could be close to both).  Also don't confuse the history, Vine was developed around cable cars and streetcars before Clifton was. 

 

Another thing is that while the CUF neighborhood does have a lot of people, there's not a whole lot of potential for new development there.  It's already fully built-out for the most part, and arguably is even somewhat overcrowded since most of the houses are divided into apartments.  The emptiness along Vine, and the area around Uptown Commons is a place that needs more help, and the streetcar can do that. 

Wednesday, August 25, 2010, 4:18pm EDT

Rail, I-70/71 split money on Ohio wish list

Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

    The Ohio Department of Transportation is vying for up to $150 million from Washington for infrastructure projects, armed with a wish list that tilts heavily toward plans to develop passenger rail service in the state.

 

The Transportation Department this week submitted applications for funding from the federal government’s Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery program, dubbed Tiger. The first phase of that infrastructure funding initiative was backed by the $787 billion stimulus package and in its second round makes $600 million available through competitive bidding.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/08/23/daily33.html

 

Another request for Streetcar money...another 35 million would be gravy

 

    A typical mass transit ridership consist of 60% commuting to work or school, 30% communting to shopping, and 10% everything else. Talk of streetcar lines to ballparks, casinos, and the zoo as big ridership generators ignore this fact. A typical resident might go to the zoo once a year, but the same resident will go to work 200 times per year.

 

  However, terminating at the zoo picks up the U.C east and west campuses as well as the V.A. hospital, as well as a smaller number of jobs at the zoo. Plus, the zoo makes an excellent reference point for a terminal. A streetcar line between "downtown and the zoo" is much more easily understood than a line between "downtown and Hughes Corner" or any number of other terminal points. Finally, there are options for a turning loop at the zoo.

 

    Extending the streetcar to Clifton and Ludlow or to Northside is really getting beyond the usability of a streetcar. A transit line, whether it be a streetcar, light rail, or subway, should have between 10 and 20 stops. A line to the zoo is already at the upper limit for practical length.

 

    Finally, too much talk of future extensions can kill this project. The higher the cost, the less likely it will be built. You can only plan so far ahead.

As cool as I think it would be to reuse the old Vine-Erkenbrecher loop that was built in 1930, I thought the plan was to use double-ended cars so that a loop wouldn't be necessary, just a crossover switch. 

 

  Really? I was unaware.

 

  A crossover switch at just one end would mean that the streetcar would be facing opposite directions every other trip. So, if there was a bike rack, for example, on the left side of the streetcar interior on one trip, it would be on the right side on the next trip. Also, people sitting facing forward toward while riding toward the zoo would be facing backward riding away from the zoo. It seems disorienting.

 

  A single loop would result in the curb side always being on the right. A crossover switch would result in a passenger potentially getting on the streetcar on one side and getting off on the other side.

 

    I know of an elevator in one of the downtown buildings with two doors, one for the ground floor and one for every other floor. People are constantly confused when they face the door they came in through and the one behind them opens.

Well in many transit vehicles (as opposed to more typical railroad cars that usually have moveable seat backs), half the seats face one way, and half face the other, though there may be a bunch that face inwards too.  Yes the actual side of the car may change, but who'd ride to the end of the line and stay on the car to come back?  In most cases you get kicked out or re-ticketed or something at that point anyway.  The issue with something like a bike section would be more that in one direction it would be at the front, while going the other direction it would be at the back, but only half the time, since there's no turnaround downtown. 

 

A typical mass transit ridership consist of 60% commuting to work or school, 30% communting to shopping, and 10% everything else. Talk of streetcar lines to ballparks, casinos, and the zoo as big ridership generators ignore this fact. A typical resident might go to the zoo once a year, but the same resident will go to work 200 times per year.

 

  However, terminating at the zoo picks up the U.C east and west campuses as well as the V.A. hospital, as well as a smaller number of jobs at the zoo. Plus, the zoo makes an excellent reference point for a terminal. A streetcar line between "downtown and the zoo" is much more easily understood than a line between "downtown and Hughes Corner" or any number of other terminal points. Finally, there are options for a turning loop at the zoo.

 

Extending the streetcar to Clifton and Ludlow or to Northside is really getting beyond the usability of a streetcar. A transit line, whether it be a streetcar, light rail, or subway, should have between 10 and 20 stops. A line to the zoo is already at the upper limit for practical length.

 

Finally, too much talk of future extensions can kill this project. The higher the cost, the less likely it will be built. You can only plan so far ahead.

 

The problem with terminating the streetcar at the Zoo is that the last half-mile before you get there will be really dead mornings, nights and a lot of weekday afternoons too. I think you need to get beyond the Zoo. I'd accomplish this by extending the line through the Zoo's west parking lot over to Jefferson and from there to Clifton/Ludlow. It's not too far, even if someone were to ride end-to-end from there to the Banks. Most people would only be going a mile or so, say from UC to Ludlow. I don't think the streetcar gets through the Ludlow business district to Northside. It could, but the traffic engineers will fight it. And the merchants too if they lose parking. I'm guessing Northside is the end-point of a life that travels McMicken to Spring Grove Avenue to Northside someday.

 

Getting back to the Vine-Auburn-Corry loop, one problem no one has ever been able to figure out - either for LRT or for streetcars - is exactly how you get into the UC Medical Center. My thinking is that if you're on Corry Street, it's pretty easy to use Euclid or Eden Avenue, or both, but preferably Eden, to get right into the heart of the medical center. I'm imagining that Eden Avenue could handle both directions of streetcar travel (it's a pretty wide street), and it's a nice street with some grand homes. It would be a huge shot in the arm for Corryville.

I don't think the streetcar gets through the Ludlow business district to Northside. It could, but the traffic engineers will fight it. And the merchants too if they lose parking. I'm guessing Northside is the end-point of a life that travels McMicken to Spring Grove Avenue to Northside someday.

 

Northside and Clifton/Ludlow are so culturally connected, it would be foolish not to take this into account when planning streetcar routes which service them.

A crossover switch at just one end would mean that the streetcar would be facing opposite directions every other trip. So, if there was a bike rack, for example, on the left side of the streetcar interior on one trip, it would be on the right side on the next trip. Also, people sitting facing forward toward while riding toward the zoo would be facing backward riding away from the zoo. It seems disorienting.

 

Reversible streetcars and trains have been standard operating procedure for about as long as rail travel has existed. People have somehow managed to cope. Cincinnati really isn't attempting to re-invent the wheel here.

There is a lot of potential in having the streetcar turn left onto Nixon (this intersection is the closest the current route gets to the buildings in the medical complex) from Vine rather than continuing to the zoo.  I've walked and driven down Ludlow/Jefferson/Clifton St many times before.  There is usually not much traffic and the street-parking is rarely full.  There's also a good amount of businesses that could benefit (Fries Cafe, the comic book store, the clothing store, Dr.s offices, Cactus Pear, etc.) and plenty of room to develop this area.  Terminating the streetcar at Clifton and Ludlow would be all the closer it would need to go to attract riders from most of Clifton proper.

 

I understand that this route would probably cost more because the turns and extra length, but as a Clifton resident and east campus student, I think it would be worth it.  That's just my opinion.

 

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=W+Nixon+St&daddr=Ludlow+Ave&hl=en&geocode=FQUyVQIdXXz2-g%3BFS5IVQId6lb2-g&gl=us&mra=ltm&dirflg=w&sll=39.140496,-84.513896&sspn=0.008904,0.019011&ie=UTF8&ll=39.140329,-84.51411&spn=0.008904,0.019011&z=16

 

 

  "Reversible streetcars and trains have been standard operating procedure for about as long as rail travel has existed."

 

  Yes, but has Cincinnati ever had reversible streetcars or trains? Going all the way back to the horse car days, even the horse cars turned around on turntables.

 

  What people are used to using in Cincinnati is Metro buses, which invariably have doors on the right side and stop at the curb.

 

    Sure, there are folks who have been to other cities, and I know you used to live in New York City, but many, many Cincinnati folks have not been on a reversible train.

 

    If the Jefferson / Short Vine couplet is used, then there is a legitimate reason for passengers to ride through the zoo turnaround.

"Northside and Clifton/Ludlow are so culturally connected, it would be foolish not to take this into account when planning streetcar routes which service them."

 

There is a pretty big ridership that transfers at Knowlton's Corner to get to Uptown.

 

A streetcar or light rail that connected Downtown, Knowlton's Corner and Peebles Corner would tie together Cincinnati's three biggest transfer points together and make the bus system a lot more useful, but that's a project for another day.

While Clifton and Northside are connected, I think the Metro buses will have cover that stretch. A lot of these problems would be solved if the EPA would allow for right of way through the western edge of their property and then through the heart of campus.

  "Reversible streetcars and trains have been standard operating procedure for about as long as rail travel has existed."

 

   Yes, but has Cincinnati ever had reversible streetcars or trains? Going all the way back to the horse car days, even the horse cars turned around on turntables.

 

   What people are used to using in Cincinnati is Metro buses, which invariably have doors on the right side and stop at the curb.

 

    Sure, there are folks who have been to other cities, and I know you used to live in New York City, but many, many Cincinnati folks have not been on a reversible train.

 

So what?  It just means they look the same at the back as they do at the front.  I don't see how it's the least bit confusing to anyone for any reason. 

 

The Mt. Auburn Cable Railway did not have loops or turntables, simply reversing direction at each end of the line.  Some of the short shuttle streetcar lines used double-end cars, like the Edwards Road jerky that ran between Erie and Markbreit.  The later years of the Paddock Road line operated that way too, but overall it was pretty rare. 

And its not like these streetcars are going to be windowless boxes... people will be able to see that they are facing a different direction and go to the door on the right side of the car. People may be creatures of habit, but they are not so stupid that they cannot see what side they need to go to to get off.

^ There are so few seats on modern streetcars that whatever direction they face is probably not worth worrying about.

While Clifton and Northside are connected, I think the Metro buses will have cover that stretch. A lot of these problems would be solved if the EPA would allow for right of way through the western edge of their property and then through the heart of campus.

 

Has that even been explored yet? I haven't heard of any dialogue between the EPA and those involved in streetcar planning.

My only experience with streetcars is in San Francisco so I'm interested in how they will affect on-street parking and traffic here where streets are for the most part fairly narrow.  I agree that the density of destinations in CUF and on Ludlow is a draw to place the line up W Clifton and possibly extend it over to Ludlow.  Regarding West Clifton, however, could the on-street parking be maintained on both sides?  Regardless of an absence of buses, I have a hard time imagining being behind a streetcar going up West Clifton being any less frustrating than being behind a bus going up West Clifton. 

 

That's what makes Vine Street seem more efficient to me from a traffic flow standpoint.  Yes there is blight and need for improvement along Vine, but redevelopment has to start somewhere and sometime, and this seems a key opportunity.  I would submit that from standpoints of potential for historic preservation, incremental new development, and easy access to a park for livability, Vine Street wins hands down.  In my opinion, West Clifton is one of the ugliest neighborhoods in the city center (mainly due to the concentration of student housing), and Bellevue Hill Park is tucked way down at the bottom of the neighborhood and only accessible by Ohio Ave.  Many of the buildings on Vine are ugly, but at least most of them are ugly because they're vacant and represent untapped potential for homeownership and mixed use purposes just like what's been going on in OTR...and Inwood Park fronts a good portion of the upper section of Vine (as someone else pointed out).

 

Also, I wanted to share that I appreciate the respectful discussions on this board.  I used to read comments on the Enquirer website but most of them are just from axe-grinders who have nothing constructive to contribute....which seems to be counter to the entire topic of transit and redevelopment.

Streetcar descent to be steep

By Barry M. Horstman - [email protected]

August 23, 2010

 

This article first appeared in The Sunday Enquirer, Aug. 22, 2010.

 

It may not exactly be the Beast or Drop Zone, but Cincinnati's proposed streetcar will offer one of the best thrill rides this side of Kings Island when it travels steeply downhill from Clifton Heights.

 

With the Downtown and Over-the-Rhine portions of the $128 million streetcar's potential course largely set, the final remaining major routing decision is expected later this month when officials choose between Vine Street or West Clifton Avenue as the path that will take the cars uphill to the Uptown area near the University of Cincinnati.

 

more: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100823/news0108/8220410/1179/news&template=iphoneart

 

 

MAP OF ROUTES pdf: http://news.cincinnati.com/assets/AB162922823.PDF

Isn't the descent just as steep on a bus?

Don't know if this article was posted here yet, but there is a small mention of the Cincinnati Streetcar....

 

Portland streetcar success has fueled interest elsewhere

By Judy Keen, USA TODAY

 

 

A decade ago, the Pearl District in Portland, Ore., was a dicey warehouse area. A streetcar line that opened in 2001 helped transform it into a lively neighborhood with boutiques, condos and restaurants.

 

"It's very much a walking area, and the streetcar is a big part of that," says Jo Carter, owner of Physical Element, a clothing shop that opened in 2003 along the tracks. She expects an extension of the streetcar line that's being built will bring more people into the area. "We're seeing a real revival," she says.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-08-30-streetcars30_ST_N.htm

 

Links are fixed- http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/noncms/projects/tiger2/

Links are fixed- http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/noncms/projects/tiger2/

 

Woo hoo, they cited my website and map on page 4 of the Uptown Alternatives Analysis.  Good to see they got the graphics straightened out, though I must say I'm a little wary of how many times the streetcar changes lanes near the southern end of the route. 

 

Does this cost anything to go to?

not to my knowledge

Miller High Life sells for $1.25 at the Sub Galley afterwards. 

lol, used to be my favorite bar when i was a kid.  one day the toilet stopped up and they didn't fix it for months.

They had a stabbing or something like that a year ago there and they're now forced to shut down at 10pm. 

 

I've been going to the Gold Star on short vine periodically for over 10 years and have gotten to know the owner a little bit and he's obviously as frustrated as anyone with the condition of that strip.  It obviously took a slide when the University Park Apartments opened on Calhoun, which stole residents and businesses like BW3's and Kinko's.  I'm not sure if he knows the streetcar is coming or not.  I did talk to a landlord in the area who had no idea it was planned.  I think people here might thing the whole city is abuzz but I think there are still a lot of people who have no idea that this is happening or where it is happening.     

The Short Vine business district has the potential to be Cincinnati's "High Street" but is currently pretty neglected.  Hopefully the streetcar will help change that.

I'd hope that the streetcar will help Short Vine, but I'm skeptical that it will, at least for the initial Uptown connection phase.  I read through the Uptown Alignment Assessment in the TIGER II application, and all the four possible routes terminate at a University Plaza transit hub of some sort.  Now, for one thing, none of the plans I've seen of University Plaza take either the streetcar or any transit hub into account, on top of not bothering to reconnect Short Vine.  Second, without the streetcar penetrating up Short Vine, I doubt it will help the business district much since most foot traffic will be coming from the west rather than from the north. 

 

I highly recommend everyone read that document, since it goes through a very in-depth analysis of the possible routes.  Several were dismissed from the outset due to excessive grades, such as McMicken-Ravine, Liberty-Highland, and Sycamore-Auburn.  Of the routes that are left (McMicken-McMillan, Clifton-McMillan, Vine-Calhoun-Clifton Loop, and Vine Street), the two routes using Clifton Avenue are also right at the threshold of being too steep, with the maximum allowable grade of 9% and Clifton Avenue being at 8.9%.  While those two Clifton Avenue routes were still examined, I suspect they're not going to make it very far considering the steepness.  That basically leaves Vine and McMicken-McMillan. 

 

Of those two routes, the report much prefers the McMicken-McMillan route, though I think it's a bit unfair to Vine.  The advantages of McMicken-McMillan is that it touches a lot more redevelopable area, serves the Calhoun/McMillan business district, and it's also easy to connect to the Elm-Race loop without having to backtrack.  The advantage of Vine is that it's much shorter (including about 10 minutes less travel time), is the least expensive, and is the most accommodating for future expansion. 

 

As I mentioned, the report is rather harsh on Vine Street for issues that aren't particularly difficult to overcome.  For one thing, they mention that Vine is too narrow to accommodate two lanes of traffic each way with the streetcar (the road is 36' wide and streetcar lanes need to be 11').  There's other options, but the road can easily be made to accommodate one wide lane each way with permanent parking on one side and even a bike climbing lane northbound.  Also, despite the presence of Inwood Park, there is a lot of developable land directly along Vine and on Loth and Rice Streets.  On Vine itself, there's enough room to build a lot of 4-6 story buildings, especially if the bit of park north of Hollister Street was sold off for development.  Another concern is the lack of connectivity to Vine Street from Ohio Avenue and the streets in Mt. Auburn.  However, they neglect the pedestrian connections through Inwood Park and via hillside stairs that still exist or could be easily built.  Finally, while it's true that a Vine only route doesn't really serve Calhoun/McMillan so well, to say that it doesn't serve UC well is a bit unfair.  The on-campus students live on the east and south side along Calhoun and Jefferson, so if one single point of access were to be chosen, it would be that southeast corner of campus.  Yes it's not as convenient for Calhoun or Siddall residents, but it's just as good for those who live in Daniels, Turner, Schneider, Dabney, Scioto, and Morgens. 

 

It'll be interesting to see where this goes, but I do hope they further consider the impacts these routes will have on extensions to serve UC Hospital and just how this transit hub is supposed to work since Kroger doesn't seem to even have it on their radar screen. 

If you average out the Tier 2 scores in the Uptown Connector Feasibility Study, W Clifton scores the highest when given standard grading values (i.e. A=4, B=3, C=2 etc.):

 

McMicken/McMillan: 2.96

W. Clifton Only: 3.34

W. Clifton/Vine Loop: 2.52

Vine St. Only: 2.22

 

W. Clifton also gets the most A's at 11 (McMicken is second w/ 9 A's)

 

Why is this important?  I think it can provide adequate guide as to how Council will vote on the matter.  Although the McMicken route is the spoken of highly in the report, it costs more to construct, more for service and maintenance and will take longer to get to the University.  W. Clifton would be ideal if Council believes the streetcar can overcome the challenges of an 8.9% grade.  It's not completely impossible but its a good overall option.  Vine St. seems to come in last with it's only benefit being it's quicker and easier to maintain (less slope) but has very limited development potential, reaches less of a population and is a narrower corridor.

 

 

^ City Council is not going to vote on the route.

So the final routing will be determined by staff?

"City Council is not going to vote on the route."

 

Then, pray tell, WHO is going to choose the route?

 

There is another option beside Vine, West Clifton, etc. That option is to do nothing, which is the default option. It's been said that doing nothing is not an option, but it IS an option.

 

If the City of Cincinnati City Council does not support the streetcar, then in effect they support the "do nothing" option.

 

 

^ Where did that come from? They voted for the streetcar several times.

 

Maybe they just think the route is something best left to the experts. Why is there an assumption that city council should be the ones to decide the route of the streetcar?

^ The City Administration will select the route, as it should be. We are still an administration-led city.

 

  Sorry, I should clarify.

 

  One of the options is "do nothing." This is the option that happens when all of the other options are ruled out, or are not moved forward.

 

  If I ran a poll that said, "Do you support rail transit options in Cincinnati", then almost everyone would vote yes. The same goes for supporting world peace, ending poverty, stopping crime, etc. These are ideals that people want.

 

  If I ran another poll that asked people if they are willing to pay for it, I would get a completely different answer altogether. Even better yet, if I asked them to actually put up the cash, even fewer would be willing.

 

    Sure, City Council has voted several times to "support" the streetcar. Why wouldn't they support it?

 

    But as far as I am aware, they haven't made a significant financial committment. I realize that they have paid for studies, and advertised for a project manager.

 

    Granted, government-run projects usually take longer than private ones, and big projects take longer to design than small projects. However, this streetcar project is really dragging on and on.

 

    We had a feasibility study for the Over-the-Rhine loop several years ago, and it hasn't been built yet. It hasn't really even been started yet. Yet, the city is studying options for future phases.

 

    If the City were really serious about building it, we would have seen some action by now - and I mean real action, like producing engineering drawings and utility work, if not actual tracks in the street.

 

    A very common strategy for politicians is to avoid the major decisions, and to spend a nominal amount of money on feasibility studies and the like. That way, they can claim that they "support" a project, while not investing too much political capital.

 

    What this project really lacks is a sponsor. For the stadium project, Mike Brown spent some millions of his own money on a political campaign to build the stadiums.

 

    If the University of Cincinnati stepped in with $100 million to build the streetcar, it would have a good chance of being built. Same with Kroger, Fifth Third, or a number of other property owners along the route. if they all got together and formed an association backed by real money, then it would have a good chance of being built.

 

    As JJacucyk said, the streetcar isn't even on Kroger's radar! Business owners on Short Vine don't seem to be paying attention, and most residents are saying, "Why Over-the-Rhine?"

 

    So, by default, the City of Cincinnati has become the sponsor. Sure, we have some planners and transportation people who dream of a streetcar. But ultimately, it is the residents of Cincinnati who vote for Council, who controls the funding. So far, the streetcar does NOT have widespread support.

 

    I am hopeful that this thing will actually be built, but on the other hand I know that project concepts die all the time. The fact that the Corryville Kroger redevelopment plans do not consider the streetcar tells me that they are not taking it seriously.

 

    So, to sum up, City of Cincinnati City Council SAYS that they support the streetcar, but their actions tell me that up to now they are not willing to risk spending some substantial funds to get it done. They are leaning toward the "do nothing" alternative. Of course, this could change.

^ If you only knew ...

Did anyone go to the "Transportation Gala" mentioned above?  What was this all about?  What did I miss?  Thanks

The City Council approved $64 million worth of its own funding.  You don't consider that a strong action?  Yes, I would love to see UC, Kroger, P&G, GE, or Macy's chip in, and that's something the city should be trying to get from them.  However, to say that they're dragging their feet or don't really support the project is baseless.  Engineering/design takes a long time.  In one little garage project I worked on, it took forever to try to find where an old sewer line ran.  It ended up being in a completely unexpected place, which we only found after doing some exploratory digging.  Imagine the amount of utility coordination it takes to sort out a route through the oldest and most densely built part of the city.  There's a huge amount of due diligence that's necessary for these things that, while in the end is mostly invisible, is still very much necessary. 

^ It was great. The best accumulation of data in support of the Cincinnati Streetcar that has ever been brought together in one place. A really high-quality presentation.

  "If you only knew..."

 

  Please enlighten me. I get most of my streetcar news from UO.

 

^ I'm guessing there are fifteen people working nearly fulltime on the Cincinnati Streetcar right now -- not all of them in Cincinnati.

 

  ^--- Which firm? And what tasks are they doing?

^Read the Draft Environmental Assessment.  This is a good place to see the schematics you are demanding.  Also, typically City Council's entrust the City staff and Administration to make adequate recommendations and decisions.  If the Council trusts the Administration to determine the final route, then that is a vote of confidence that elected officials can trust that the job is done right.

 

My apologies for causing this stir, I thought I read somewhere that Council had to vote on the alignment, probably on the Enquirer, which is as good as fish wrap these days anyway.

 

 

>if not actual tracks in the street

 

No, this whole thing should be planned so that the streetcars arrive at roughly the same time the trackwork is complete.  That way there's not a situation where there is a year or more with tracks but no streetcars.  Talk radio and the fish wrap would go nuts with that. 

 

Also, be on the lookout for talk radio and the f-wrap attributing all of the success of the streetcar to the casino. 

 

 

 

  ^--- Ideally, the tracks, catenary, stations, vehicles, power supply, and maintenance facility will all come together on exactly the same date. In reality, they probably won't match that well.

 

  If you had a choice, which order would you prefer them in? If the tracks are complete before the vehicles, then we have a round of subway jokes to deal with. But if the vehicles come first, then they can be hidden away somewhere so as not to attract attention. Probably the best thing to do is store them at the manufacturer's place until the rest of the project is finished.

 

  Working backwards from the completion date, which item takes the most time to complete? Whichever one it is will be the critical path.

  "Read the Draft Environmental Assessment...."

 

  Thanks for the link. I don't know how I missed that before.

 

  Section 3.0: "Selection of a preferred alternative will be made after comments on the EA and comments received at the public hearings have been fully considered."