Based on the conceptual engineering document ( http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/city/downloads/city_pdf39904.pdf ) which is the most specific layout I've seen, the track is going to run in one of the middle two lanes through OTR.  It kind of weaves around in downtown, but on Elm Street this means it runs basically right on top of the historical location of the outbound track.  The layout could certainly have changed some since this document was prepared, but it's all I've seen.

John, I appreciate your confidence. I have been incredibly optimistic and excited about this project since it was announced a few years ago. But for some reason, I just have a bad feeling about this. I trust your assessment though, as you've given me no reason to NOT trust you. I hope you are right.

 

**My sudden pessimism could simply be the result of inadequate sleep and having a bad day today though... lol.

^ They are trying to get rid of the weaves. They better.

Streetcar Utility Costs Could Soar

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101119/BIZ01/11200328/Streetcar-s-utility-costs-could-soar

 

 

I feel more confident too after reading what John says.  The big media in this town though is just so dead set against it

"Yep, Eighth and State definitely mentioned this."

 

Underground utilities are underappreciated. The challenges can be overcome, but not without funding. I don't know what the estimate was based on, but it seems clear that the utility relocation budget is not enough to do the job.

 

 

 

  "Harrell accused city budget writers of playing a “shell game” with restricted funds, which they say can’t be used to solve the projected shortfall in the city’s general operating fund. Money from the sale of Blue Ash Airport and tax revenue from a casino scheduled to open in 2013, she said, could be transferred to the general fund instead of the streetcar project."

 

  I haven't heard much about funds from the sale of the Blue Ash Airport lately, so I don't know if it is still in the streetcar bedget or not, but here's some news that demonstrates what a tangled web we weave.

 

    Some improvements at the Blue Ash Airport were funded by the Federal Aviation Administration, which regulates airports in the United States. As a condition of that funding, the FAA specified that the aiport was to be used only for aviation. The City of Cincinnati has the option to sell the aiport, but the funding has to remain in the aviation industry. The City of Cincinnati does NOT have the option to sell the airport and use the funds for the streetcar.

 

    The aviation lobby in the United States watches these things. The Blue Ash airport may not look like much, unless you are a private pilot or aircraft owner. If the City of Cincinnati sells the airport for streetcar funding, they can expect to be sued by the aviation lobby.

Hey, let's look at the bright side of today's events:

 

* In selecting the acronym "CASS," the latest retread of Miller, Lurker Luken & Co. finally had to acknowledge the word "streetcar" in their name.

 

* They had to resort to naming a nonresident of the city, Dusty Rhodes, to be their chairman.

 

* The Enquirer didn't even cover their "news conference."

 

We've had worse days.

Streetcar supporters strike back

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2010/11/19/going-bananas-for-the-streetcar/

 

Going BANANAS for the Streetcar

 

"Here’s their group description: “Just imagine how much money the city would have for cops and firefighters if we had never built all those expensive sewers, bridges, and paved streets. After all, the city exists to serve the police and firefighters, not the other way around. Down with infrastructure! I’m forming a group called BANANAS: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone, Stupid! The Enquirer has already agreed to give us a fawning front page article. Who’s with me?”

Heh.

Now you just need PAC status, LiG.

Have Tom Luken, Dusty Rhoades (SP?), WLW radio, ever been in favor of proposed new developments that will bring Cincinnat into the 21st century? Much has been accomplished in spite of these people.

Is Dusty Rhoades any relation to Brewster Rhoads from the governor's SW Ohio office?

^ No.

Thanks. It seemed a long shot, but I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a Cain and Abel thing. :)

 

    Dusty Rhodes has been the County Auditor of Hamilton County for many years. Often the sole Democrat in a county administration dominated by Republicans, he has been a critic of many Hamilton County projects such as The Banks.

 

Dusty Rhodes has been the County Auditor of Hamilton County for many years. Often the sole Democrat in a county administration dominated by Republicans, he has been a critic of many Hamilton County projects such as The Banks.

And he co-chaired the 2002 campaign against light rail.

He was also a DJ on the golden oldies station WGRR, IIRC.

And a pro wrestler.  ;)

* In selecting the acronym "CASS," the latest retread of Miller, Lurker Luken & Co. finally had to acknowledge the word "streetcar" in their name.

 

Someone please contact the good people of the Cass brewery in Korea and inform them that their good name is being sullied here in the states.  Maybe we can get a suit going with a "cease and desist" order!  :-D

 

http://www.cass.co.kr/index.asp

Want Better Public Safety? Then Build the Streetcar.

 

Remember that time Metro Cincinnati exploited the death of a teenager in a horrific car accident to illustrate the need for fewer highways and better public transit? Oh right, you don’t remember that, because it never happened. That hasn’t stopped the usual suspects from exploiting a recent fire in Northside and looming police layoffs to make yet another desperate stand against the streetcar project, despite the incontrovertible fact that the city’s public safety budget and the streetcar budget have precisely nothing to do with each other. In fact, building the streetcar will reduce crime and increase the amount of funding available for police and fire protection, but you’ll never hear that from Tom Luken, COAST, or their stenographers in the local media.

 

Like Captain Ahab pursuing the great white whale named Moby Dick, Tom Luken’s irrational obsession with killing the streetcar remains unabated. Now the Pequod is sailing again, this time in the form of CASS, a Facebook group and political action committee titled Citizens Against the Streetcar Swindle.

 

Full article

 

 

^Genius comparison in the opening.

 

This, to me is the strongest statement in the piece:

 

"Even if the city were to cancel the streetcar project tomorrow, we’d still be looking at a $60M deficit, police layoffs, and fire department brownouts. The federal streetcar funds would simply be given back to Washington for use in some other city, and the municipal bonds would be used on some other capital project, such as another football stadium for Mike Brown."

While i'm not a fan of the enquirer's "reporting" on the streetcar, at least they aren't pulling in a healthy income from peddling “body rubs” on the back page.  This city has two of the biggest jokes of "newspapers" ever.  ROFL at the $100 dollars the opposition has raised.  If i was a police officer or fire fighter i would be very upset and probably drop out of the union at this point. 

The longer construction keeps becoming delayed, the better the chance gets for opponents to kill the project. 

 

I thought construction was supposed to start this month?  Now its early 2011?

 

Where did you see early 2011??

If anyone wants to see the streetcar presentation that was given at Ignite Cincinnati, go here:

 

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10921130

 

Skip ahead to 1:53:35 which when the streetcar section begins. 

 

The power point slides that were used in the presentation are available here:

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7g36rHGhn3zMjAzMmRlMDMtZTFmOC00ZTk0LWI3ZjEtMGQwZDFlNTc4Njll&hl=en

 

The longer construction keeps becoming delayed, the better the chance gets for opponents to kill the project. 

 

I thought construction was supposed to start this month?  Now its early 2011?

 

Where did you see early 2011??

 

Brad mentions it in his video ^...

^ Thanks!

Today, the enquirer had a small article mentioning that the work on Washington Park is scheduled to begin soon. At the bottom of the article they for some reason added this: "Enquirer Publisher and President Margaret Buchanan is a 3CDC board member."

 

I'm assuming that 3CDC is supportive of the streetcar project correct?  If so, why would the Enquirer's president, who is obviously in support of 3CDC's mission, allow them to publish so many negative, anti-streetcar stories?

The Enquirer is a business. So the only reason why a newspaper covers a certain subject is because they think it will improve that business.

^^ I've never heard 3CDC come out in support of the streetcar.  Actually, from what I can tell they want to remain completely neutral.

^ Probably true. Why would they take a controversial stance, when it could cost them support and funding for their own projects?

 

If there were a way for them to know with a strong degree of certainty that their support would shift the streetcar from not-happening to happening, they would probably come out in support because it will benefit them in the future. But since their support is unlikely to be a major determining factor one way or the other, they would potentially be shooting themselves in the foot by taking a stance.

^^ I've never heard 3CDC come out in support of the streetcar. Actually, from what I can tell they want to remain completely neutral.

3CDC wrote a letter to the Feds in support of Cincinnati's Tiger II grant for the streetcar project.

I think the only thing 3CDC didn't like about the streetcar was that it might cut into their funding.

The Enquirer is a business. So the only reason why a newspaper covers a certain subject is because they think it will improve that business.

They are getting a new editor. YAY.

^ Just a heads up- Tom Callinan was the best editor at the paper and the only Democrat on the editorial board. His departure will ensure that the paper leans farther right.

^ I agree. I wouldn't necessarily assume our issue will get better treatment from a new editor. The problem isn't with the editor or the reporters.

^ Just a heads up- Tom Callinan was the best editor at the paper and the only Democrat on the editorial board.

 

Didn't they say the same thing about David Wells when he left?

The Beacon has a story on the streetcar increasing congestion (it won't). There are some good facts in the comment section- http://www.cincinnatibeacon.com/index.php?/contents/comments/urban_constipator_streetcar_limited_to_10_mph/#comments

 

The article is misleading, but the 10 mph issue could have the same effect as the 39 mph that the 3-C had.

 

Historic streetcars were critized for stopping traffic. Just ask Tom Luken.

 

The author is correct that streetcars will impede automobile traffic, but designing streets to maximize vehicle velocity is NOT proper urban design.

There was an article addressing this very issue in Streetsblog

 

According to one former traffic engineer, we may be overlooking a more fundamental factor: traffic industry guidelines that prioritize the values of speed and traffic volume over safety. In an article on Network blog Grist, Charles Marohn explains how for years he helped impose dangerous road conditions on communities, under the guidance of the traffic industry’s all-important book of standards.

 

The Streetcar will improve street safety, thereby improving street livability (or how aesthetically pleasing and welcoming to pedestrians the street is)

The difference in the argument about speed is that 3C was billed as High Speed Rail, thus speed was part of the equation.  With the streetcar, speed has never been the focus.  The focus is neighborhood revitalization and economic development, not speed. 

^ Rick Gustafson, who runs Portland's streetcar, once said, sort of off-hand, that the slower the streetcar goes, the more riders they seem to attract. Brad was there when he said it, and maybe he remembers exactly how he put it. But it was counter-intuitive.

 

I do know that the Portland Streetcar now carries more people per mile than Portland's MAX light rail does. So speed isn't everything.

The Dean™ is probably pissed because I wouldn't let him join the BANANAS group on Facebook with all the cool kids.

The Dean™ is probably pissed because I wouldn't let him join the BANANAS group on Facebook with all the cool kids.

I'm sure, at some level, he regrets ever having waded into the streetcar issue. Since he, Jeffre and Patton have been so persistently strident about it, bringing up all kinds of red herrings that are easily dismissed, it seems that the Beacon has dwindled to nothing. To me, they sound like the suburban commenters on Cincinnati.com. The Beacon's once-robust audience appears to have moved on.

 

 

It's a shame, because when they talk about things other than the streetcar, I'm inclined to agree with their POV more often than not.

^ Rick Gustafson, who runs Portland's streetcar, once said, sort of off-hand, that the slower the streetcar goes, the more riders they seem to attract. Brad was there when he said it, and maybe he remembers exactly how he put it. But it was counter-intuitive.

 

I do know that the Portland Streetcar now carries more people per mile than Portland's MAX light rail does. So speed isn't everything.

 

 

 

Portland Streetcar 3.90 Route miles; 12,000 Daily Riders; 3,076.92 Riders per mile

MAX                         44.00 Route miles; 107,400 Daily Riders; 2,440.91 Riders per mile

 

data as of 7/29/09

Interesting views on the departure of Tom Callinan from The Enquirer:

 

http://gannettblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/cincy-want-to-be-newspapers-executive.html

The only area that I see the speed of the streetcar being a problem is up Vine-  In Downtown and over the rhine it will be fine, but I go up and down Vine daily and I and many of the other people drive 30-35 miles up the hill (the posted speed limit is 35).  If the streetcar is going to be going 10 mph up the hill, that is one place where I could see people getting pissed about it.  Even busses go in the +20mph range up vine. 

 

Anyone have any word on this?  Vine isn't wide enough for the streetcar to be in the right lane (removing the street parking) and have cars be in the left lane.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.  This seems to be the one spot where the streetcar will certainly cause congestion. 

The streetcar will go much faster than 10 MPH. That's an average end-to-end speed including stops, traffic lights and layovers. The 7.9 mile long Portland Streetcar route takes about an hour to traverse = 7.9 MPH. It nevertheless carries over 12,000 passengers a day.

^ I agree that in downtown, etc.(any part of the grid) the speed won't be a problem.  I don't know anyone who can drive around downtown at more that 15-20 miles per hour (red lights, pedestrians, traffic, etc)- But Vine street is a long stretch, up hill, that people do frequently drive the speed limit of 35mph. 

 

I've read all the published reports and there is a strong implication that the grade on Vine will limit the speed of the streetcar dramatically. (I love the portland system, and am a complete supporter of our system, but realistically, there is nothing (that I've traveled on ~2006) on the Portland track that comes close to the Vine St. hill)

 

Personally, I'd wish that the street parking along the "up" side of Vine would be removed and, the road widened about 2 feet (it's possible, especially along much of the park!) and the Streetcar going up in the right lane, and auto traffic in the left (some people will still need to drive, as always). 

On the down traffic, it can stay as is, and everyone can share one lane. 

 

I doubt this will happen- It's way too expensive and shouldn't entirely be paid for out of the Streetcar Budget if it helps auto traffic, but if the streetcar can't go up Vine at more than 15mph it will be going less than half of the posted speed limit on a one lane road and will certainly cause congestion on an already busy street.

They're going to have to change Vine's configuration in some way anyhow, since I believe it's only 36' from curb to curb, and that's not sufficient to maintain four lanes since a shared streetcar lane needs to be 11' or 12' wide if I recall.  That really only leaves room for one shared lane each way plus a permanent parking strip along one side.  The remaining space is only really sufficient for a bike climbing lane. 

 

Either way, so what?  In this country public transportation and all other modes of travel have been completely subjugated by the automobile for the past 60 years.  It's not too much to ask to allow the streetcar to rule ONE street out of the thousands we have.  This mindset of "how will it impede traffic flow" needs to die, because for too long that's been the only consideration, and it's been systematically destroying the places where we live and work.