Is there anything Kasich can legally do about it at this point?  I wasn't aware that the Governor functioned as a dictator.  In spite of the good news about getting awarded the funding, I have a nagging feeling that this might go the way of the 3C rail plan.  Has Kasich ever given a reason for being anti rail and anti cities?  Does he think the salvation of our state is going to be a soybean field in Lima?  I always thought I would come back to Cincinnati to live in a few years after school, but if the streetcar doesn't get built, I swear I will never be back, and I won't even think twice about that decision.

Hopefully this money comes through - removing editorial portion.  I wish I knew what Kasich thought on the local level.

I feel really bad for you guys over the border. We are fighting similar conservative "parenting" (if you will) up here in Indy in regards to a mass transit plan that has PLENTY of support.

 

At least we didnt get the ball rolling only to be knocked down. Its terribly frustrating watch these things happen. Hang in there. Keep the support in a positive way for these projects!

Let's stop talking about failure in the streetcar thread! Bad karma! Good things are happening with the streetcar!

And nobody has anything to say about money being spent on:

 

"$27 million to continue design and engineering work on the new Brent Spence Bridge – carrying Interstate 71 and 75 traffic over the Ohio River;..."

 

Besides, this little tidbit at the bottom seems to indicate that this TRAC funding can't be stopped by Kasich's grandstanding:

 

"Because money for the TRAC-approved projects is tied to gasoline taxes and federal mandates, it is not jeopardized by debate over the state’s $51 billion general operations budget."

 

Or am I mistaken?

Hey guys-- In a few months we're gonna have to become very very vocal.  The new ODOT will be entirely pro-road and anti-transit.  Under Strickland, Ohio seemed to have the most pro-tranist DOT in over 50 years but that'll all be gone soon. 

 

I hope that money can't be cancelled.  I want construction to start ASAP! and I want to make sure we help out the 6 council members who are going to viciously be targeted by C-ASS (Citizens against Streetcar Swindle) in the next election cycle.

They need to get it completed asap for many reasons.

 

  I went shopping at one of the few remaining businesses on Elm Street the other day and couldn't help feeling completely depressed that about 90% of the storefronts on that street are either boarded up, vacant, or used for some other use if not outright abandoned.

 

  C-Dawg said it best on a previous post: if neglected buildings in Over-the-Rhine aren't addressed really soon, we are going to lose a lot of them in the coming decade or two. Once that the building deteriorates enough to let in water, the damage comes quickly. Sadly, even if the streetcar is tremendously successful in bringing in new development and redevelopment, it might already be too late.

Besides, this little tidbit at the bottom seems to indicate that this TRAC funding can't be stopped by Kasich's grandstanding:

 

"Because money for the TRAC-approved projects is tied to gasoline taxes and federal mandates, it is not jeopardized by debate over the states $51 billion general operations budget."

 

Or am I mistaken?

 

That's exactly how I interpreted it. I am not familiar with the law as it applies to TRAC funding, but it sounds like because the federal level is involved Kasich cannot interfere. Can anyone clarify this?

I keep seeing the "the project will break ground in 2011" but can't find a more specific timeframe.  Utility relocation was originally supposed to start in November but got pushed back due to funding issues -- now that we have the funding, what's holding us back?

 

   I went shopping at one of the few remaining businesses on Elm Street the other day and couldn't help feeling completely depressed that about 90% of the storefronts on that street are either boarded up, vacant, or used for some other use if not outright abandoned.

 

 

 

With a few legal adjustments, the dealers could set up shop in the vacant retail space. :laugh:

 

I went shopping at one of the few remaining businesses on Elm Street the other day and couldn't help feeling completely depressed that about 90% of the storefronts on that street are either boarded up, vacant, or used for some other use if not outright abandoned.

 

 

yeah but there sure is tons of customers (loiterers, crack and heroin dealers/users) for the health center and it looks like work is getting done on the halfway house where the Blind folk center used to be. More whores den you can count up Elm, and somebody is getting shot about once a week. I came out of the market (on Elm, near Mohamed's deli) the other day and this aggressive crack dealer was standing right by the door. Almost had to smack this cat around for getting in my personal space. That is what needs to be dealt with on Elm. Any restoration projects will fail if the criminal element isn't dealt with now. All the dealers from vine are now working the side streets (pleasent, findly, green) and it keeps going up. Gets worse daily.

 

You are depressing.

The money we are getting from TRAC is officially approved in March 2011.  I've been concerned that the new governor will do whatever it takes to defund this project.  What TRAC does is recommend projects to be funded for the next 4 year budget.  They are a 9 person board (6 appointed by gov, 1 by House Speaker and 1 by President of Senate) with overlapping terms.  Unfortunately the new Director of ODOT is the chair which gives me the feeling he'll do everything to pull this from the recommended list.  If a funding priority is called into question, the TRAC committee will vote on it again in March.  The streetcar got the highest score so it doesn't make sense to question it but then again we are dealing with the same person who has already cost the state $400 million, thousands of jobs and economic benefit, etc. etc.

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/trac/Documents/TRACPoliciesandProcedures-December-9-2010-Web.pdf

yeah but there sure is tons of customers (loiterers, crack and heroin dealers/users) for the health center and it looks like work is getting done on the halfway house where the Blind folk center used to be. More whores den you can count up Elm, and somebody is getting shot about once a week. .... Gets worse daily.

There is no halfway house going in at the Samuel Bell home for the Sightless, and no there are not shootings every week, and it is not getting worse daily.  All wrong IMO.

yeah if this falls through i'm moving and not spending a dime in this city again. i love how they steal our money to expand highways to nowhere and outsource our economy to the burbs creating smog, the need for excessive gas expenditure to get places etc but when we need a tiny fraction of the same money to intensify transportation in the urban core they cry like babies because the burb pansies dont wanna lose their precious money to raise their 10 children while expanding into farm land and destroying it so we all starve in the future...if kasich promotes ONE airport or highway expansion bill of anykind over the next few years i hope he dies....grrrrrrr.

Okay.

yeah but there sure is tons of customers (loiterers, crack and heroin dealers/users) for the health center and it looks like work is getting done on the halfway house where the Blind folk center used to be. More whores den you can count up Elm, and somebody is getting shot about once a week. .... Gets worse daily.

There is no halfway house going in at the Samuel Bell home for the Sightless, and no there are not shootings every week, and it is not getting worse daily. All wrong IMO.

 

Yeah, I own property next to the health center.  Complete BS.

 

  Just so you know, families in the 'burbs aren't averaging 10 children. They are barely averaging 2.

 

  Just so you know, families in the 'burbs aren't averaging 10 children. They are barely averaging 2.

 

Lol.

>>>That is what needs to be dealt with on Elm.  Any restoration projects will fail if the criminal element isn't dealt with now.  All the dealers from vine are now working the side streets (pleasent, findly, green) and it keeps going up.  Gets worse daily.

 

 

So you accompanied Peter Bronson on his annual post-riot 15-minute walk through Over-the-Rhine?

 

 

gfi probably needs to get moderated.

 

###

 

What can we do to support the streetcar?

^write letters to the editor, attend the budget meeting tomorrow and voice your support

Council: Concessions will save jobs

 

By Jane Prendergast

 

"Council also passed a motion promising no general fund money would be spent on the streetcar project and another promising to move any capital dollars received for the streetcar to the general fund to pay for police officers and firefighters.

 

Members don't actually think the latter is possible. But they wanted a once-and-for-all vote to try to quell critics who continue to say the city should stop spending on the streetcar and save public safety jobs. Mallory has said if the city did switch money from capital to operating accounts, Dohoney would lose his job."

 

When reading that article, I got VERY impressed with Jeff Berding- and found it hilarious that the union was so taken-aback by Council's attitude after the Fire union made asses of themselves implying that ending the streetcar could fix the budget. 

 

One thing Cecil says is right.. The union's current contract was approved by council, and while it is bloated, it could have been addressed before it was approved... So, it's council's fault for not dealing with the problem then (in the past year and a half, correct?).  At the same time, I'm happy to see they are finally getting tough on this situtation.  It's just too bad they hadn't done this at the negotiating table and now have to do it as post contractual concessions. 

^write letters to the editor, attend the budget meeting tomorrow and voice your support

Just watched a bit of one of the open meetings. College Hill?

One guy urged the committee to keep on with the streetcar because it was terribly important to the future of the city.

He got a smattering of applause.

Tom Luken was more incoherent than usual. Claimed to be Pavlov's dog or something. Clearly didn't understand committee rules, refused to shut up & got a healthy round of applause.

^write letters to the editor, attend the budget meeting tomorrow and voice your support

Just watched a bit of one of the open meetings. College Hill?

One guy urged the committee to keep on with the streetcar because it was terribly important to the future of the city.

He got a smattering of applause.

Tom Luken was more incoherent than usual. Claimed to be Pavlov's dog or something. Clearly didn't understand committee rules, refused to shut up & got a healthy round of applause.

That one was in Westwood.

 

Those meetings are unbelievable.  Almost every person gets up and says the streetcar should be stopped (and that's how you know they don't have the capacity to understand how the funding works).  Honestly, look at the budget and then go tell council how they can save $60MM without cutting a single cop or firefighter.  I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

 

It's off topic, but...the unions don't have to take concessions...council agreed to their contract and that's fine.  But, they have the opportunity to help their "brotherhood" and not have a bunch of guys laid off.  If they don't avail themselves of that opportunity...they're not giving council any choice...because, there is no money in the streetcar (see how i tied it back in?)

Its interesting, operating the new Washington Park and Central Riverfront Park will cost $1.9 million annually out of the general fund, but no one makes a fuss about that.

^ It's never the money. It's that rail doesn't comport with its opponents' views of how the world should work.

^ Agreed.

 

"It's never the money..."

 

For better or for worse, and whether we like it or not, the proposed streetcar has become a symbol of the City of Cincinnati city budget.

^Yep....The ugly and unfortunate truth.

Anybody catch this bit of the article?:

 

Police give up $9,289,320 worth of benefits, including bonuses for maintaining their certifications and for longevity, tuition reimbursement and a salary cut, the amount to be determined. <b>The average police salary is $73,270</b>, or $100,590 including benefits.

 

Firefighters agreeing also to a salary cut, as well as give up extra pay for shift differential, longevity, uniform allowances and tuition reimbursement. The fire list of cuts would have to total $10,759,570. <b>The average firefighter salary is about $60,000.</b>

 

I know these are dangerous jobs and all, but that sounds like a ton of money to me.  Those average salaries are 1.5-2x what I would have expected.  Am I crazy?

I was similarly shocked, and the problem with paying people too well is that they get a sense of entitlement. In this economy, with tons of college graduates working two service industry jobs just to get 40 hours, it's a sin for them to be acting this way. 

Governor-Elect Kasich talks rail transit with WLWT's Jack Atherton and he very briefly talks about the streetcar: http://www.wlwt.com/video/26135653/detail.html

 

It's a terrible interview and it cuts off most of what he says in regards to the streetcar.

He lied about the speed of 3C. He lied about Ohio being a donor state (it used to be, but not for several years). And he lied by implying spending 3C money on other Ohio projects wouldn't add to the federal deficit, while spending it as intended would. (Not to mention just talking about reappropriating the funds is talking point BS.)

 

Atherton should have called him out. It's not the media's job to play lapdog to elected officials. Grow a spine!

 

"It's never the money..."

 

For better or for worse, and whether we like it or not, the proposed streetcar has become a symbol of the City of Cincinnati city budget.

 

So it is a symbol that the national economy is depressed and tax revenue is down?  Or is it a symbol of how people are willing to ignore the actual relationship between the streetcar project and the City's operational budget?

 

For better or for worse, and whether we like it or not, people will continue to insist that symbols that have no connection to actual facts are more important than the facts themselves.

I did enjoy the "Doesn't sounds like ill get a chance to" remark... what a joke.  I dont know how long the entire interview was, but if Kasich was as cordial throughout as he was in that segment, i would imagine Atherton was about ready to toss him thru a wall.

Governor-Elect Kasich talks rail transit with WLWT's Jack Atherton and he very briefly talks about the streetcar: http://www.wlwt.com/video/26135653/detail.html

It's a terrible interview and it cuts off most of what he says in regards to the streetcar.

If Kasich isn't lying, he's saying he doesn't know.

I believe Ohio is actually a receiver state nowadays, like $1.01 maybe.

local TV coverage is so wimpy. I think Atherton had something to say but WLWT calls the shots.

My view of Atherton is he is quite possibly the fluffiest interview in Cincinnati history.  There is a reason he was picked for the job.

I know many of you share my dilemma -- you spend time looking up things on your own, only be shouted down by family members who have never looked up anything and do nothing but watch TV. 

Anybody catch this bit of the article?:

 

Police give up $9,289,320 worth of benefits, including bonuses for maintaining their certifications and for longevity, tuition reimbursement and a salary cut, the amount to be determined. <b>The average police salary is $73,270</b>, or $100,590 including benefits.

 

Firefighters agreeing also to a salary cut, as well as give up extra pay for shift differential, longevity, uniform allowances and tuition reimbursement. The fire list of cuts would have to total $10,759,570. <b>The average firefighter salary is about $60,000.</b>

 

I know these are dangerous jobs and all, but that sounds like a ton of money to me. Those average salaries are 1.5-2x what I would have expected. Am I crazy?

 

These averages must include an average of all ranks on the police and fire forces, or it includes overtime. The city lists a regular Police Officer has a min of $52,790, and $ 63,140 max. Regular Fire Fighter min $47,470, and $60,003 max.

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cityhr/downloads/cityhr_pdf32622.pdf

 

I would have to lay a large part of the blame on city council over the years for doing so poorly in negotiations. I have no problem with police officers and firefighters taking what they can get, nor do I have a problem with them making a middle-class salary. However, the police department is overstaffed compared to surrounding cities, and the fire department needs to privatize EMS services.

 

Governor-Elect Kasich talks rail transit with WLWT's Jack Atherton and he very briefly talks about the streetcar: http://www.wlwt.com/video/26135653/detail.html

 

It's a terrible interview and it cuts off most of what he says in regards to the streetcar.

 

Kasich: "they tell you one thing, and do the other". I'm so confused. Didn't the administration approve this disbursement under the public mandate that it be used only for rail. Why yes, yes they did. If they would have approved Kasich's motion then they would have been "talking out of both sides of their mouths".

 

I wonder why they cut off the video? Something seems weird to me. If they had to cut it, why wouldn't they cut it before the question about the streetcar, instead of mid sentence?

I assume Kasich's response to the Streetcar questions was "I don't.  No.", rather than "I don't know".  Right?

 

  ^"For better or for worse, and whether we like it or not, people will continue to insist that symbols that have no connection to actual facts are more important than the facts themselves."

 

  And these people vote! Just because a candidate or idea is popular doesn't mean it's right.

 

    "Only to be shouted down by family members who have never looked up anything..."

    Budgets are boring. You can't take a picture of it to put on TV. I feel for you, bro.

 

 

   

Any idea if he can change the makeup of the TRAC board before March?

Anybody catch this bit of the article?:

 

Police give up $9,289,320 worth of benefits, including bonuses for maintaining their certifications and for longevity, tuition reimbursement and a salary cut, the amount to be determined. <b>The average police salary is $73,270</b>, or $100,590 including benefits.

 

Firefighters agreeing also to a salary cut, as well as give up extra pay for shift differential, longevity, uniform allowances and tuition reimbursement. The fire list of cuts would have to total $10,759,570. <b>The average firefighter salary is about $60,000.</b>

 

I know these are dangerous jobs and all, but that sounds like a ton of money to me. Those average salaries are 1.5-2x what I would have expected. Am I crazy?

yes you are crazy if you don't  firefighters should make a good union wage.  60k a year for saving people is garbage.

Moderator Note

 

Given that firefighter and police officer salaries have jack squat to do with the streetcar, any discussion about them should take place in a more appropriate thread. Back on topic, please.

Anybody catch this bit of the article?:

 

Police give up $9,289,320 worth of benefits, including bonuses for maintaining their certifications and for longevity, tuition reimbursement and a salary cut, the amount to be determined. <b>The average police salary is $73,270</b>, or $100,590 including benefits.

 

Firefighters agreeing also to a salary cut, as well as give up extra pay for shift differential, longevity, uniform allowances and tuition reimbursement. The fire list of cuts would have to total $10,759,570. <b>The average firefighter salary is about $60,000.</b>

 

I know these are dangerous jobs and all, but that sounds like a ton of money to me.  Those average salaries are 1.5-2x what I would have expected.  Am I crazy?

yes you are crazy if you don't  firefighters should make a good union wage.  60k a year for saving people is garbage.

 

Just sounds like a lot of money given the amount of training involved.  No offense intended to any firefighters or police officers out there.  They're just apparently doing a lot better financially than many of the people I know with graduate degrees.  It's only relevent to the streetcar discussion in that the police/fire unions needlessly brought the streetcar into their fight against layoffs.  LiG, that's the last I'll say on it.

Moderator Note

 

Given that firefighter and police officer salaries have jack squat to do with the streetcar, any discussion about them should take place in a more appropriate thread. Back on topic, please.

 

Too bad you don't moderate the Enquirer!

^ Agreed!