It's a good point in the article that they will be costing the city $400k to do a ballot initiative in May if they do one.  Still, I'd rather construction be well under way at that point. 

Every day that they don't get started makes this challenge more dangerous, IMO.

 

I'm with you.  I have been seeing starting dates come and go with great frequency and no explanation.  This may be par for the course, but at this point I'm losing faith that the project will actually ever get started.  Sorry to sound so crabby (baby kept me up again last night), but I'm getting fatigue constantly defending this project with friends, family, co-workers, media, etc....

Just to confirm-- what will begin in early spring is Utility relocation, not streetcar tracks.  Duke Energy says they will spend $20 million on relocating gas/electricity main access, then the Sewer district will need to move over 100 manholes out of the way (more time and money).  It's almost a fact that not a single inch of rail will be close to the ground come May.  That "helps" the argument that it's ok to cancel the project even if it's been underconstruction for two months since none of it has been streetcar related (that's what they'll argue). 

Begin laying track on Freedom way. Neither Duke or MSD should have work to do on this new stretch of road.

Begin laying track on Freedom way. Neither Duke or MSD should have work to do on this new stretch of road.

 

That's really what they should be doing. The roads around the banks should be built with the tracks in place. No sense in having to rip up some of the concrete in 6-12 months when construction begins in earnest. All the streetcar infrastructure down there should be built up as the other construction goes.

I totally understand everyone's frustration with the delay in getting this project started.  I'm also getting very tired of defending this project and I'm getting a little nervous giving COAST and NAACP any extra time to try something sneaky.  HOWEVER, we beat them once and we can beat them again.  If they want to try to waste everyone's time and money in an effort to stop a fully funded project I say bring it on!  We'll rally up support and crush their efforts again.  This project is worth fighting for and we all need to be ready to go to war with the morons if we have to.

Sorry, I didn't see Sherman's posting of the Enquirer article.

 

You shouldn't have to beat these crazies again.

It shouldn't be necessary to have to beat them again, but I suspect it would be even more difficult this time if it comes to it.  The strength of the No on 9 campaign was that Issue 9 was so broadly written as to have many unintended consequences.  It wasn't an anti-streetcar issue, it was an anti-rail-of-any-kind issue that would even affect planning processes. 

 

There's a lot of people who don't support the streetcar OR 3-C passenger rail, but they understood just how bad of an amendment Issue 9 was.  Even so, it wasn't beaten by much, 56% no, 44% yes.  Many of those yes votes came from the west side too, which is even more likely to come out against the streetcar in another round.  Without the "terribly written, unforeseen consequences, broad amendment" argument, the streetcar itself is going to have a much more difficult time standing on its own merits.

The big difference though is that the opposition is already in place.  As soon as they say go with whatever they're going to do, there is a network of people ready to start opposing them.  With Issue 9 it took 5 months to create an organized opposition. 

Let's hope so.  Of course, if they do proceed with another ballot initiative, it could be just as poorly worded and easy to pick apart as Issue 9 was. 

The article mentions they're having some difficulty coming up with the wording of their charter amendment.  If I recall, Issue 9 was worded to encompass all rail because it was hard for them to define "streetcar" without including all forms of rail transit.  I assume they are running into the same challenge again.  Either way, once the contracts are signed then the project is grandfathered and when gas is $4 this spring, I think another way of travel will be on everyone's mind.

The big difference though is that the opposition is already in place.  As soon as they say go with whatever they're going to do, there is a network of people ready to start opposing them.  With Issue 9 it took 5 months to create an organized opposition. 

 

In addition to this, even COAST can learn from their mistakes.  They have the Enquirer, some police and fire, suburbia, and 700wlw at their disposal. 

 

City council has got to secure those construction contracts otherwise they are playing with fire. 

we should just tack on the next phase of the streetcar in a ballot so when they bring everyone to the poles for them to lose we even get another phase and tell them thats whats gonna happen everytime they act like hooligans. :)

Now why do you suppose they aren't putting highway projects on the ballot, too? Hmmm.....

Yes....how about we put the I-74 extension to a vote?

Here we go again:

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/opinionati/2011/01/05/lets-have-a-vote-on-the-streetcar/

 

 

Here we go again:

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/opinionati/2011/01/05/lets-have-a-vote-on-the-streetcar/

 

 

 

Get used to it until you see streetcars lining the streets of Cincinnati...

Unfortunately, the streetcar will not have a stop north of Main and Court streets until it completes the two 90-degree turns to Vine and 12th streets. Dan at Park+Vine commented on this today, and I thought that is kind of absurd to eliminate the stop given the Main Street renaissance of today...

^ The city knows the stops are too far apart in this area. I'm certain they will add one on 12th just west of Main.

It's only a block, but I thought a stop going northbound at Central/Clay would be central to both Walnut and Main street.

Here's the lowdown on the new Enquirer editor:

 

http://gannettblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/cincy-will-washburn-get-nod-this-week.html

Cincystreetcar Blog's response to the Opinionati piece- http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/a-second-anti-streetcar-referendum-would-be-a-threat-to-our-citys-progress/

A little off topic, but timely...

 

Mayor Ralph Becker: Streetcar success reflects state of Salt Lake City

Published: Wednesday, Jan. 5, 2011 1:15 a.m. MST By Jared Page, Deseret News

 

SALT LAKE CITY — Ralph Becker left most of his trophies on the shelf Tuesday night, preferring to showcase the one he says best reflects the state of Salt Lake City.

 

Departing from the traditional listing of accomplishments, Mayor Becker kept his State of the City address short and focused on the future by highlighting one of his administration's top priorities of 2010: the Sugar House streetcar.

 

"This project reflects — in style and in substance — the goals, values and priorities we have set for our great city," Becker said during his 17-minute speech at the Salt Lake City-County Building. "It exemplifies our continued commitment to move Salt Lake City forward despite challenging economic conditions."

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705363873/Mayor-Ralph-Becker-Streetcar-success-reflects-state-of-Salt-Lake-City.html

So do people here think there actually will be a vote?  If there is one, I just don't think the streetcar will win.  If it gets voted down, that would essentially kill the project, correct?  What would happen to the alotted money?

The questions are irrelevant if we fight the initiative. Forget the future. Address the now.

I'm shocked at how "liberal" Salt Lake City is compared to Cincinnati.  The have three light rail lines, have three more under construction, and their economy is growing healthily...  COAST's response?

COAST's response?

 

BOOOOOOOOOONDOGGLES!!! All of em!

The questions are irrelevant if we fight the initiative. Forget the future. Address the now.

Exactly.   

I'm shocked at how "liberal" Salt Lake City is compared to Cincinnati.  The have three light rail lines, have three more under construction, and their economy is growing healthily...  COAST's response?

COAST would use the typical Cincinnati arguments "But that's Salt Lake City, it won't work here!" or "Now is not the right time.  Maybe later, but not now"

Here's the lowdown on the new Enquirer editor:

http://gannettblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/cincy-will-washburn-get-nod-this-week.html

More from City Bleat:

"Back when The Gannett Co. owned The Idaho Statesman, and while Washburn served as that paper's executive editor from 1999-2005, it became embroiled in a controversy involving conflicts of interest and journalistic integrity that caught the attention of The Washington Post and media watchdog groups.

 

The Statesman was criticized for being too deferential to Micron Technologies, one of the largest employers in Boise, Idaho.

 

As Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) wrote in 2001: “The Idaho Statesman has a curious definition of 'fact checking.' The business editor of the Gannett-owned daily, Jim Bartimo, resigned when he was told that a story he had worked on about Micron Technologies, the area's largest employer, had to be sent for pre-publication 'review'... to Micron Technologies.”

 

Previously The Statesman's business news practices were examined by The Washington Post's Howard Kurtz, in articles from January and February 2000. Kurtz's article revealed that The Statesman reporter covering the Micron beat was married to a Micron employee.

 

When Kurtz asked Washburn about the paper's Micron coverage and whether it was afraid to be too critical, she replied, “It's not that it has anything to do with their being the biggest employer. What we write can affect a lot of people in this community. It can affect the stock price.”"

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-1652-a-bad-omen-for-news.html

 

They also mention:

"Last year, in another move that raised media eyebrows, the newspaper (Enquirer) named Josh Pichler — the son of Joseph Pichler, Kroger's retired chairman and CEO — as business editor. The elder Pichler remains fairly influential in business circles, including trying to drum up opposition behind-the-scenes to the city of Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system."

I have not heard anything about Pichler & the streetcar. Seems like kroger would like another neighborhood to sell to.

 

"Last year, in another move that raised media eyebrows, the newspaper (Enquirer) named Josh Pichler the son of Joseph Pichler, Kroger's retired chairman and CEO as business editor. The elder Pichler remains fairly influential in business circles, including trying to drum up opposition behind-the-scenes to the city of Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system."

 

 

Thanks. I'm glad some folks in this state is willing to do its job and expose the linkages between Mainstream Media and those who seek to corrupt the reporting of news fairly and accurately, especially when it comes to urban, transit and rail issues.

 

Salt Lake City has very wide, straight, level streets. Salt Lake City has a growing economy. Salt Lake City has increasing population. I won't say it won't work here, but there is no question that Salt Lake City had every advantage.

 

Salt Lake City has very wide, straight, level streets. Salt Lake City has a growing economy. Salt Lake City has increasing population. I won't say it won't work here, but there is no question that Salt Lake City had every advantage.

 

Lets be honest though.  If Cincinnati had those exact same characteristics, COAST, the Enquirer, and 700wlw would still be against it

"Last year, in another move that raised media eyebrows, the newspaper (Enquirer) named Josh Pichler the son of Joseph Pichler, Kroger's retired chairman and CEO as business editor. The elder Pichler remains fairly influential in business circles, including trying to drum up opposition behind-the-scenes to the city of Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system."

 

 

Thanks. I'm glad some folks in this state is willing to do its job and expose the linkages between Mainstream Media and those who seek to corrupt the reporting of news fairly and accurately, especially when it comes to urban, transit and rail issues.

While I frequently disagree with him, Kevin Osborne is probably the best journalist in Cincinnati.

 

Lets be honest though. If Cincinnati had those exact same characteristics, COAST, the Enquirer, and 700wlw would still be against it

Very true. Is COAST only here in Cincinnati or in other cities as well?

Here's the lowdown on the new Enquirer editor:

http://gannettblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/cincy-will-washburn-get-nod-this-week.html

More from City Bleat:

"Back when The Gannett Co. owned The Idaho Statesman, and while Washburn served as that paper's executive editor from 1999-2005, it became embroiled in a controversy involving conflicts of interest and journalistic integrity that caught the attention of The Washington Post and media watchdog groups.

 

The Statesman was criticized for being too deferential to Micron Technologies, one of the largest employers in Boise, Idaho.

 

As Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) wrote in 2001: “The Idaho Statesman has a curious definition of 'fact checking.' The business editor of the Gannett-owned daily, Jim Bartimo, resigned when he was told that a story he had worked on about Micron Technologies, the area's largest employer, had to be sent for pre-publication 'review'... to Micron Technologies.”

 

Previously The Statesman's business news practices were examined by The Washington Post's Howard Kurtz, in articles from January and February 2000. Kurtz's article revealed that The Statesman reporter covering the Micron beat was married to a Micron employee.

 

When Kurtz asked Washburn about the paper's Micron coverage and whether it was afraid to be too critical, she replied, “It's not that it has anything to do with their being the biggest employer. What we write can affect a lot of people in this community. It can affect the stock price.”"

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-1652-a-bad-omen-for-news.html

 

They also mention:

"Last year, in another move that raised media eyebrows, the newspaper (Enquirer) named Josh Pichler — the son of Joseph Pichler, Kroger's retired chairman and CEO — as business editor. The elder Pichler remains fairly influential in business circles, including trying to drum up opposition behind-the-scenes to the city of Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system."

I have not heard anything about Pichler & the streetcar. Seems like kroger would like another neighborhood to sell to.

 

 

The Enquirer is often a joke.  City Beat is consistently a joke.  I'll start with the completely unsubstantiated claim that Josh Pichler is trying to stir up anti-streetcar sentiment.  The only eyebrows he has ever raised are those at City Beat, who have to raise their eyebrows at anything and everything the Enquirer does in order to remain in existence.

 

Salt Lake City has very wide, straight, level streets. Salt Lake City has a growing economy. Salt Lake City has increasing population. I won't say it won't work here, but there is no question that Salt Lake City had every advantage.

 

Cincinnati has all of those things except the streets.

They also mention:

"Last year, in another move that raised media eyebrows, the newspaper (Enquirer) named Josh Pichler — the son of Joseph Pichler, Kroger's retired chairman and CEO — as business editor. The elder Pichler remains fairly influential in business circles, including trying to drum up opposition behind-the-scenes to the city of Cincinnati's proposed streetcar system."

I have not heard anything about Pichler & the streetcar. Seems like kroger would like another neighborhood to sell to.

 

Joe Pichler is a major stakeholder in 3CDC, wouldn't it be in his best interest to support the streetcar?

 

Here's where I read it:

http://www.3cdc.org/who-we-are/otr-work-group/

Only if his fellow stakeholders inform him of the error of his ways.

One would hope that a businessman of his stature would understand basic real estate market forces... particularly if he's heading up part of what's basically a real estate brokerage organization.  Also I seem to remember reading that 3CDC officials were pushing for support of the streetcar.

 

Either there is something I'm missing, or this is poor journalism. 

No, Pichler has been against the streetcar for quite a while.  If you notice, 3CDC hasn't really put a lot of their weight behind the project.

 

Salt Lake City has very wide, straight, level streets. Salt Lake City has a growing economy. Salt Lake City has increasing population. I won't say it won't work here, but there is no question that Salt Lake City had every advantage.

 

Cincinnati has all of those things except the streets.

 

And Wide, Straight, Level  Streets are not an asset.  Have you been to SLC?  I can't think of a more pedestrian UNfriendly city...maybe Phoenix.  Both are proof that transit CAN work anywhere and WILL undoubtedly work in a pedestrian friendly city like Cincy. 

^I was thinking the same thing

 

Either there is something I'm missing, or this is poor journalism.

 

The urban/transit/highway journalism at the major newspapers in this state has been horrible, to say the least. The thought of an attractive urban setting or pleasant transit experience is so far out of their realm that to suggest otherwise is akin to suggesting living on the moon.

 

I have noticed that, at least with the Cleveland Plain Dealer, most of their editors and a surprising number of their writers live at the outer edge of the county or in the surrounding counties. That helps explain much of their unfair and inaccurate coverage of urban/transit/rail issues.

 

Sometime when I have a moment, I would like to map the residential locations of the editorial staff and their transportation writer(s) at Ohio's major newspapers. This can be done by checking their driver's license records at publicdata.com or other similar sites.

 

If you're an editor or writer, the urban/transit experience isn't likely to be part of your everyday experience because you live so far from it. And if you're relying on hearsay and innuendo to color what the typical urban/transit experience is like or you simply feel uncomfortable being around people different from you (sadly, too many do), of course that's going to find it's way into how choose coverage subjects, conduct interviews and write articles.

 

And that's not going to change anytime soon among the old guard news media. So in the end it's up to us to provide the news coverage via Web news sites in cities like Cincinnati -- and put them out of business.

So in the end it's up to us to provide the news coverage via Web news sites in cities like Cincinnati -- and put them out of business.

 

That is unfortunately not going to happen.

Oh another fortune teller. With those predictive abilities, you must be sitting on a beach someplace counting your dividend checks, correct? Where is it written that newspapers are going to last forever, especially with the increasingly shoddy reporting they are asking their customers to accept? Though I do agree they will last forever if people who can make a difference just sit on their ass and take it.

I'm shocked at how "liberal" Salt Lake City is compared to Cincinnati.  The have three light rail lines, have three more under construction, and their economy is growing healthily...  COAST's response?

A friend of mine attended a transit conference in SLC a couple of summers ago.

 

One of the speakers at the plenary meeting as a VP at the University of Utah. He talked about how much light rail had done for the university and talked about SLC's several plans for future rail investments.

 

When he finished, he took questions. Once question went like this, "Utah is one of the most conservative states in the nation. How did you convince voters to support all of these projects?"

 

He thought for a minute and then answered, "Because we think about the next generation here."

 

You could have heard a pin drop.

 

You could have heard a pin tear drop.

 

Fixed that for ya.

I'm shocked at how "liberal" Salt Lake City is compared to Cincinnati. The have three light rail lines, have three more under construction, and their economy is growing healthily... COAST's response?

A friend of mine attended a transit conference in SLC a couple of summers ago.

 

One of the speakers at the plenary meeting as a VP at the University of Utah. He talked about how much light rail had done for the university and talked about SLC's several plans for future rail investments.

 

When he finished, he took questions. Once question went like this, "Utah is one of the most conservative states in the nation. How did you convince voters to support all of these projects?"

 

He thought for a minute and then answered, "Because we think about the next generation here."

 

You could have heard a pin drop.

 

Bingo. Demographics surely play a role too.

 

Look at SLC's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City#Demographics

 

And then consider the fact that I don't think SLC has ever had more than 2 dozen murders in any given year (somebody can check me on that).  I think they average like one murder or less per month.

 

SLC is also probably the cleanest city I've ever visited.

Nobody has mentioned that a lot of SLC light rail expansion was due to the 2002 Winter Olympics, not that they are more progressive IMO.  SLC is definitely NOT progressive, it is very much ruled by the LDS church.  Anything that gets done there...they have a hand in it and have money.

 

They had such a problem with pedestrian accidents downtown that they have flags in bins at crosswalks that you wave when you cross the street to stop cars.  It also has pollution hanging over the city that looks like LA in 1974.  The great salt lake is polluted and ugly.

 

Cincinnati is way cooler.

Just to add to this it is correct that SLC was really trying to prepare for the Olympics.  Having been there many times its streets are ridiculously wide, and it definitely does not have the vibrancy of downtown Cincy.  It almost feels suburban.  That being said you can clearly see what rail has down for the CBD as well as The U (University of Utah) and connecting those areas.  While metro Cincy continues to grow, this would be one more tool to get more of that growth in the center city.  I just cannot see how this would not work here.