The amendment was add by state Senator  Shannon Jones, R-Springboro.

 

Her district does not even cover the city of  Cincinnati.

 

 

It's not even greater cincinnati-  it's just outside of columbus.

 

Springboro is a Dayton suburb and just under 40 miles away from downtown Cincinnati via I-75.

If misery loves company, know that Cincinnati is but one act in a national plot by those who don't understand the difference in the economic payback from a train vs a bus (or are directly under the influence of oil/highway lobbyists to avoid such critical thinking). Think not?

 

See:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18743.msg550495.html#msg550495

It doesn't work that way.  You can't change the route without going through an entirely new environmental impact- funds are tied to the route as was approved.  You can't just say- ok we'll do 5th street to findlay market now... That change would add another year of planning to the process.

 

additionally- they can't start because they haven't been given the go ahead from the federal government yet on the environmental impact report.

You're not changing the route.  The route remains the same.  You are simply stopping construction because you can't finish it.

 

By analogy: There once was a transportation project that had the highest ranking by state objective criteria.  Then a new governor came in and decided he wanted to dismiss that criteria outright.  So he said that the criteria didn't count and that by removing the funds from the highest rated project it would save money.  How you can save money by spending the same amount elsewhere was never explained.  Yet this happened.

 

So if someone asks, where is the environmental report for the streetcar?  You say, it's right there.  If they say, but it's a different project because it won't be complete.  You say, no, it's the same project.  It follows the same route, you're misreading the environmental report.

 

The only difference in the last scenario and the first is that in the first we have a politician who wants to assert his authority to bring about a certain end, regardless of the legality or ethics of it.  In the second scenario, will their be a politician who stands up for the City's rights?  I guess we will see.

Someone needs to hold a press conference condemning the reapportionment of funds away from the Cincinnati area, with emphasis on the complete lack of impact on the state budget.

 

It's the only way the media will report these facts.

 

If Kasich can get his "new sheriff in town" crap in print, his buffoonery can be counterweighted. Otherwise, he just gets to lie, lie, lie, and Cincinnatians will be duped into thinking they're making a sacrifice for some greater good, instead of for Kasich's near-and-dear in Pickaway County.

^ You ain't kiddin' about Kasich's horde in Pickaway. Most everyone there bought into him hook line and sinker without even being able to explain why. And the last thing they want to see is something good happen to Cincinnati. Yet, go 20 miles south to Chillicothe and things are completely different -- Strickland country.

The amendment was add by state Senator  Shannon Jones, R-Springboro.

 

Her district does not even cover the city of  Cincinnati.

 

 

It's not even greater cincinnati-  it's just outside of columbus.

 

Isn't she also responsible for SB5?

I would think that by simply delaying the extension of the streetcar line to uptown, and building the same planned route in the basin, that a new review process could be avoided. It would be the same project, the same route, and the same environmental report. Except that the uptown spur would be "delayed" until funding is secured. This is politics, so semantics can have a lot to do with how the process can move forward.

So if Kasich is a new sheriff, does that mean he has to call himself an idiot?

 

Don't expect the media to cover the story, or at least cover it the way you want it to. I have found the media to be unresponsive to new information and predetermined in its course of what it wants to write before it sets to write it. Today's media has killed respectable journalism which sought to pursue truth by instead trying to write the next great opinion column. And when editors who reside only in the suburbs and exurbs try to ask reporters (many of whom who also come only from the suburbs and exurbs) to cover an urban story, they lack the understanding or context to ask better questions in the pursuit of truth.

 

The result is what you used to receive on your city neighborhood doorstep every morning until you cancelled the subscription because reporters can't or won't cover the issues that matter to you. Others have cancelled their subscriptions because they moved out of the city and beyond the ability of the transit system to serve them. They used to read the newspaper on the bus or streetcar on the way work every morning. Now, who has time to read a newspaper? How ironic......

Isn't she also responsible for SB5?

 

Yes she is. She must be Kasich's go to when he needs a bill sponsored in the assembly.

 

Yes she is. She must be Kasich's go to when he needs a bill sponsored in the assembly.

 

Yes, her and GOP strategist/political hitman Mike Dawson. I have no doubt he is behind some, if not all of these anti-streetcar initiatives in the general assembly and at ODOT. He is also a darling of the Columbus Dispatch editor Ben Marrison and connected to the Ohio Petroleum Marketers Association. He used to work for George Voinovich and Mike Dewine -- ironically both men were rail supporters (especially Dewine).

 

Learn what you can about him but keep your distance from him.

The amendment was add by state Senator  Shannon Jones, R-Springboro.

 

Her district does not even cover the city of  Cincinnati.

 

 

It's not even greater cincinnati-  it's just outside of columbus.

 

Technically, it is Greater Cincinnati (Warren County).

I would think that by simply delaying the extension of the streetcar line to uptown, and building the same planned route in the basin, that a new review process could be avoided. It would be the same project, the same route, and the same environmental report. Except that the uptown spur would be "delayed" until funding is secured. This is politics, so semantics can have a lot to do with how the process can move forward.

 

I agree that this makes a ton of sense to do it how you described.  The problem is that back when the route was being planned 2 or 3 years ago, Roxanne Qualls introduced a motion that would require phase 1 of the streetcar to include the uptown connector.  This was passed and as it stands now phase 1 MUST include the uptown connector.  This was something I was not pleased about when Qualls introduced it because I knew it would increase total costs and likely slow things down sigificantly.  I believe that in order to build only the downtown loop, council would have to essentially go back to re-defining phase 1 and agree that its OK to not include the uptown connector.  Given the current state of Council with Berding gone and a republican in his place, I have doubts this sort of work will get done.  But, maybe someone who knows more about this stuff can give their input? (John?)

I would think that by simply delaying the extension of the streetcar line to uptown, and building the same planned route in the basin, that a new review process could be avoided. It would be the same project, the same route, and the same environmental report. Except that the uptown spur would be "delayed" until funding is secured. This is politics, so semantics can have a lot to do with how the process can move forward.

 

Look at the EA as an omnibus EA for the entire effort, which is now going to be phased due to financial considerations.  Dont change the routes, just do a basin loop as phase I and the uptown extension as Phase II. 

 

Roxanne Qualls introduced a motion that would require phase 1 of the streetcar to include the uptown connector.  This was passed and as it stands now phase 1 MUST include the uptown connector.

 

This is a local ordnance, correct?  Introduce a new ordnance that revises the phasing.  Yes, more politics, but this thing is being micromanaged for political purposes anyway. 

 

Cold comfort to know that if this dies, at least the only infrastructure is the changed utility runs, not extensive, like the tunnels, roadbed, and stations, from the infamous cancelled subway.  The streetcar avoided getting that far and being that much of an embarassement (if the plug was pulled at a later date while the line was under construction).

 

 

 

 

How would it look if Cincinnati state Senator Eric Kearney (D) put an amendment in a transportation bill banning all federal and state money for all highway widening projects in Warren  county?

 

The Governor is making everyone fight against everyone. Nothing will ever get done in this kind of environment. 

How would it look if Cincinnati state Senator Eric Kearney (D) put an amendment in a transportation bill banning all federal and state money for all highway widening projects in Warren  county?

 

 

If that ever succeeded, then you would know that the rail and transit lobby has arrived as a force to be reckoned with.

 

Conversely, state government trying to micromanage a locally preferred transit project reveals the power of the oil/highway lobby to motivate such actions. This is about where the federal transportation money goes. The highwaymen in Ohio want more than just 99 percent of it. They want it all.

Starting to get some outside attention:

 

Streetsblog: There’s a New Sheriff at Ohio DOT, and He Likes Asphalt

http://streetsblog.net/2011/03/24/theres-a-new-sheriff-at-ohio-dot-and-he-likes-asphalt/

A Citizens Initiative is the only way to get Kasich out...

Kasich is a joke.  The only jobs about which he is worried are those of the $100K+ administrators in Columbus.  This kind of garbage is precisely why people are leaving Ohio, and Ohio cities.  Cincinnati's population dropped again over the past decade, and this is going to ensure that will continue.  Pittsburgh is looking better and better all the time.

Starting to get some outside attention:

 

Streetsblog: There’s a New Sheriff at Ohio DOT, and He Likes Asphalt

http://streetsblog.net/2011/03/24/theres-a-new-sheriff-at-ohio-dot-and-he-likes-asphalt/

 

When pressed for more reasons behind cutting streetcar funding for Cincinnati, Townley later replied, “because there is already a bus system in place in Cincinnati that services the same area, we don’t see why rail is really necessary.”

 

Unreal. But then, many people who should know better don't understand why a bus can't do what rail does in places like urban cores. I've been having an e-mail exchange with a rail critic who doesn't understand that either. He wondered why we should spend $20-30 million per mile on a streetcar when a bus with flexible routings and existing streets can do the job just as well.

 

My response (I tried to write this in Republicanese):

 

Because flexible transit services can't stimulate and sustain dense land uses required to return ridership density to it. Real estate developers aren't going to make substantial investments around a bus stop or route that may not be there next year. It is not a coincidence that when we ripped out our privately owned streetcars (and built government owned highways to the suburbs which today cost taxpayers a lot more than $20-30M per mile!), the core city quickly depopulated. Buses are cosmetic transit to make politicians feel good about themselves. But they do not represent a meaningful commitment to having dense, dynamic core cities.

 

If you spend $128 million on a streetcar and get $1.5 billion in economic development in return, that's a good public investment in my opinion. Maybe you disagree. But maybe we can agree that buses are too unsubstantial to instigate land use changes like well-designed rail transit does. Such land use patterns produce a meaningful level of transit ridership which in turn will produce meaningful public benefits. Among them: reducing our dependence on oil, producing significant consumer-savings that can be spent in the local economy rather than for foreign oil, and increasing local property values. All of those increase the local taxbase rather than shipping it overseas or dispersing it over a larger land area that requires more tax-funded infrastructure with fewer taxpayers per square mile to support it.

If misery loves company, know that Cincinnati is but one act in a national plot by those who don't understand the difference in the economic payback from a train vs a bus (or are directly under the influence of oil/highway lobbyists to avoid such critical thinking). Think not?

 

See:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18743.msg550495.html#msg550495

 

I don't see how anyone can seriously lift the blame off of apathetic urban residents who never vote and attribute their deliberate inaction to a plot at a national or state level. The urban residents of Ohio have spoken loud and clear: 'We don't care about our city, let alone our state. We don't care to learn about what has been proven to work to improve our cities, so we'll just go with our uninformed gut reaction and say that rail wouldn't do anything, if we have an opinion at all'. The exurban/suburban Ohio residents, unfortunately, do care and do vote as a result. That's why we have Kasich as governor and that's who we let dictate Ohio's urban agenda.

That critic wasn't the same guy who recommended in a letter to the Enquirer recently that we paint a bus all pretty to look like a streetcar and then run it up and down Vine Street to test out whether all the investors and business folow, was it?

 

I don't see how anyone can seriously lift the blame off of apathetic urban residents who never vote and attribute their deliberate inaction to a plot at a national or state level.

 

 

I don't remember lifting the blame. But just because someone was stupid, lazy or naive enough to take a shortcut down a dark alley, doesn't mean they deserved to be robbed, assaulted, murdered etc. etc. by a nationally connected gang that has positioned themselves in dark alleys nationwide. Nor does it mean we shouldn't loathe the nationwide gang either.

 

That critic wasn't the same guy who recommended in a letter to the Enquirer recently that we paint a bus all pretty to look like a streetcar and then run it up and down Vine Street to test out whether all the investors and business folow, was it?

 

Don't know. I missed that one!

If misery loves company, know that Cincinnati is but one act in a national plot by those who don't understand the difference in the economic payback from a train vs a bus (or are directly under the influence of oil/highway lobbyists to avoid such critical thinking). Think not?

 

See:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18743.msg550495.html#msg550495

 

I don't see how anyone can seriously lift the blame off of apathetic urban residents who never vote and attribute their deliberate inaction to a plot at a national or state level. The urban residents of Ohio have spoken loud and clear: 'We don't care about our city, let alone our state. We don't care to learn about what has been proven to work to improve our cities, so we'll just go with our uninformed gut reaction and say that rail wouldn't do anything, if we have an opinion at all'. The exurban/suburban Ohio residents, unfortunately, do care and do vote as a result. That's why we have Kasich as governor and that's who we let dictate Ohio's urban agenda.

 

What Urban Residents?  The problem is that Ohio doesn't have any Urban residents.  Are you talking about the indigent, homeless, poverty stricken urban residents?  Because obviously they don't vote.  The whole issue here is that the majority of the people living in Ohio's cities who are capable of voting are living in suburban communities.  As you pointed out, they are calling all the shots.  Until we can somehow get a sigificant number of people to repopulate our urban cores this trend will continue.  That's what is so frustrating about Cincinnati's streetcar project.  It would have done wonders for repopulating our core and would have really helped reverse that trend towards suburban dominance in this part of Ohio at least.

 

What Urban Residents?  The problem is that Ohio doesn't have any Urban residents.  Are you talking about the indigent, homeless, poverty stricken urban residents?  Because obviously they don't vote.  The whole issue here is that the majority of the people living in Ohio's cities who are capable of voting are living in suburban communities.  As you pointed out, they are calling all the shots.  Until we can somehow get a sigificant number of people to repopulate our urban cores this trend will continue.  That's what is so frustrating about Cincinnati's streetcar project.  It would have done wonders for repopulating our core and would have really helped reverse that trend towards suburban dominance in this part of Ohio at least.

 

I disagree that Ohio has no urban residents other than those who are poor. And since when did that determine the value of a vote or of human life? And, yes, many poor people do vote.

 

BTW, you just hit on why there is anti-urban bias in GOP politics. The cities have been Democratic strongholds for decades, so why send public infrastructure dollars to them?

Kasich talks about population loss in Cincinnati and other urban areas...

 

http://www.abc6onyourside.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wsyx_vid_9993.shtml

 

 

What Urban Residents?  The problem is that Ohio doesn't have any Urban residents.  Are you talking about the indigent, homeless, poverty stricken urban residents?  Because obviously they don't vote.  The whole issue here is that the majority of the people living in Ohio's cities who are capable of voting are living in suburban communities.  As you pointed out, they are calling all the shots.  Until we can somehow get a sigificant number of people to repopulate our urban cores this trend will continue.  That's what is so frustrating about Cincinnati's streetcar project.  It would have done wonders for repopulating our core and would have really helped reverse that trend towards suburban dominance in this part of Ohio at least.

 

I disagree that Ohio has no urban residents other than those who are poor. And since when did that determine the value of a vote or of human life? And, yes, many poor people do vote.

 

BTW, you just hit on why there is anti-urban bias in GOP politics. The cities have been Democratic strongholds for decades, so why send public infrastructure dollars to them?

 

I never said anything about their "value" as human beings, so I don't know where you got that.  I didn't mean to make anyone think that I thought any less of them either.  All I was stating was that compared to other large cities across the country, Ohio's cities are full of more poor, uneducated type citizens than they are of middle or upper income types.  That's just demographic fact.  I live in OTR and I can tell you that the large majority of the people who live here are poor, living on at least some form of government help and do not vote.  That's not to say that EVERYONE is that way, but the majority still are. If you don't believe me come down to OTR some time and campaign door to door with me as I did during Issue 9.  Most of the people we talked to laughed when we asked them if they were registered to vote (no kidding, they thought we were crazy).  Cincinnati has a great chance to change that demographic to include more higher income, tax paying citizents which will help the financial situation here greatly.  There's no anti-urban bias with me whatsoever.  I am 100% anti-suburban though.  But, that doesn't change the fact that our central cities are still full of mostly poor, needy people.  There's nothing wrong with these people, they just make the the majority of the population downtown. (in Cincinnati at least)

http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/cincinnati-streetcar-under-attack/

This lists the emails for most of the TRAC members

 

William Brennan – Commissioner, Division of Building Inspection, City of Toledo- [email protected]

 

Robert Clarke Brown Treasurer for Case Western Reserve University – [email protected]

 

Patrick Darrow – Secretary/Treasure & Business Manager for Teamsters Local 348 – [email protected]

 

Bill Dingus – Executive Director, Lawrence County Chamber of Commerce – [email protected]

 

Antoinette A. Selvey-Maddox – Senior Management Advisor, Management Partners, Inc – this page will take you to her email http://www.managementpartners.com/asp/emailform.asp?ID=36

 

Patrick J. Ungaro – Former Mayor of Youngstown, Ohio – [email protected]

 

If you don't vote you should get no government assistance.  Have no idea why that is never in the books.

Jacksparrow82, there's plenty of poor, needy people in the small towns and rural areas of Ohio, too. But, depending on where you are in Ohio, they seem to be more socially conservative and that tends to show up in their politics, too.

 

If you don't vote you should get no government assistance.  Have no idea why that is never in the books.

 

Probably because it's unconstitutional and rightly so.

 

Let's try to stay focused on the streetcar PROJECT, the processes it must go through to get built, and the reasons for and against the project.

http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/cincinnati-streetcar-under-attack/

This lists the emails for most of the TRAC members

 

William Brennan Commissioner, Division of Building Inspection, City of Toledo- [email protected]

 

Robert Clarke Brown Treasurer for Case Western Reserve University [email protected]

 

Patrick Darrow Secretary/Treasure & Business Manager for Teamsters Local 348 [email protected]

 

Bill Dingus Executive Director, Lawrence County Chamber of Commerce [email protected]

 

Antoinette A. Selvey-Maddox Senior Management Advisor, Management Partners, Inc this page will take you to her email http://www.managementpartners.com/asp/emailform.asp?ID=36

 

Patrick J. Ungaro Former Mayor of Youngstown, Ohio [email protected]

 

 

Also:

 

Ray Di Rossi = [email protected]

 

correction for Pat Darrow: [email protected]

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110324/NEWS0108/103250338/Amendment-would-prohibit-funds-streetcar?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

"This isn't going to be built anytime soon - it's time to admit that and deal with it," state Sen. Shannon Jones, R-Springboro, said of the $128 million-plus streetcar plan. "At a time when resources are so limited, why would you spend public dollars on something that likely isn't going to come to fruition?"

 

Jones' amendment, inserted in the $7 billion, two-year transportation law passed by the Ohio legislature Wednesday, says: "No state or federal funds may be encumbered, transferred or spent pursuant to this or any other appropriations act for the Cincinnati Streetcar Project."

This is exactly what is wrong with state government. "they" call rail a special interest issue, but at least we aren't abusing power in a gross manner such as this.

^^ Wow she sounds like a d**k.  This is so pathetic that so much hard work can be wiped away with a few penstrokes in a matter of days.  It would be nice to see the state money get approved in the April vote to highlight what a sham the process is, given that the end around effectively overrides that decision.  Locally, at least Berding was forced to own his party and his character exposed - it was really deceitful that he got elected as a Democrat in the first place.  I sure hope Mayor Mallory can pull a rabbit out of his hat soon.

Let's call it the Cincinnati Trolley Project and keep on keepin on!

She don't even know it's name. It's DESIRE.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

"AdolfJKasich

 

12:31 AM on March 25, 2011

 

This isn't over yet, fellow transit supporters.

 

From what I understand, we are in the running to get some of the 2.4 billion Florida rejected in rail funds a few months back.

 

Mayor Mallory was in D.C. shortly after they rejected the funds, meeting with the VP Biden, discussing this very possibility.

 

California and NY are due to get most of the 2.4 billion Florida rejected, but SORTA will likely get its piece too, and more than enough to make up the deficit, almost enough to finish the complete system through Clifton to the zoo. And since this wont be routed through the state that cow Shannon Jones ridiculous amendment has no effect."

 

From what I understand, that money can only be used for high-speed rail.

The Florida funding cannot be used for purposes other than intercity passenger rail (ie: between cities), and neither SORTA nor the City of Cincinnati are eligible recipients for the funding. Only Amtrak, states, state-chartered passenger rail agencies or associations/compacts of states can receive federal funds for this purpose.

 

And based on the wording of the amendment, I think the feds just might have a problem with it.

 

Shannon "Tweety" Jones is a hypocrite. On one hand (apparently her light and kind one), she complains about government having too much power, and then switches to wield her other hand, the heavy hand of government to deny the rights and freedoms of others beneath her and the all-powerful state.

You think they have a legitimate case against the state's wording of the amendment as well as the shadyness  of it all KJP?  I hope so.

 

By the way, Jon Stewart ripped on Kasich last night.

^ A City of Cincinnati attorney attended the TRAC meeting the other day.

The whole issue here is that the majority of the people living in Ohio's cities who are capable of voting are living in suburban communities.

 

Bingo.  Political power is where the votes are.

 

Though, I would say not "capable", but "motivated to vote", or "habitual voters" , or "frequent voters"

I have to say I am disappointed by the deafening silence coming from the city on this.  I understand that they are thinking things over and evaluating options, but I think you have to go on the offensive here.  If you are considering litigation, say it.  If you are reaching out to the feds and they are ticked, tell people about it.  It seems emblematic of one of the things that has frustrated me about the Democrats for years--they are not good at modern politics.  You know why every Republican you talk to hates Rahm Emmanuel?  Because he is an attack dog, and he goes after the GOP like they go after things.  These are not the Republicans of the 70s and 80s (or even the 90s).  The Tea Party movement should show you that.  These people are zealots, crusaders, bullies--and you have to respond to them like bullies. 

 

Just frustrated with the whole process.  I want someone fighting for this project with Sean Connery's approach from The Untouchables. 

^ A City of Cincinnati attorney attended the TRAC meeting the other day.

They are building their case. I'm sure they are in talks with the AG of both Ohio and the US. They will not let a Blagojevich happen in Ohio.

I'm amazed at the vindictive way the state government is going out of their way to stop the streetcar. It's a full out assault.

^ A City of Cincinnati attorney attended the TRAC meeting the other day.

They are building their case. I'm sure they are in talks with the AG of both Ohio and the US. They will not let a Blagojevich happen in Ohio.

 

I can't imagine that they will get any help from the OAG's office.

^ A City of Cincinnati attorney attended the TRAC meeting the other day.

They are building their case. I'm sure they are in talks with the AG of both Ohio and the US. They will not let a Blagojevich happen in Ohio.

 

The Ohio AG is NOT going to raise a finger to punish any republican in our state.  Mike DeWine is too busy suing Obama to be bothered.

FYI. I don't know how many of you noticed this.....

 

 

OHIO SENATE HIGHWAYS & TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE

Wed., Mar. 30, 2011, 10:30 AM, South Hearing Room

Chair Patton: 614-466-8056

Governor's appointment:

- Jack R. Marchbanks to the Transportation Review Advisory Council

 

Anyone know much about this guy, other than he will likely do the governor's bidding on the TRAC.

Actually, Jack Marchbanks is a great guy. I've known him for years, going back to when I was Dispatch transportation writer and he was head of ODOT District 6. This was in the Taft administration. He is a city dweller and a transit supporter -- which is why I was surprised to see that he was tapped by Kasich. Perhaps Kasich is seeking to appoint more minorities to various things and doesn't know Jack likes transit.

We already know that, generally speaking, Kasich doesn't know jack.