They used to be able to stare at that melted down motel in Kenwood.

Now they get to stare at a rusted tower..lol

 

Ok Florida just approved a 61 mile 1.2 billion dollar commuter rail in the Orlando area. It's expected to have 4300 riders. The Cincinnati streetcar will have around the same ridership costing 12 times less. Ohio is just so out of touch.

FYI - Judi Craig with Parsons Brinckerhoff will be discussing the Cincinnati Streetcar Project at the next Downtown Residents Council meeting on Tuesday, July 12th.

 

Time/Location:  Main Branch Library - Third Floor Tower Room @ 6:00pm

They used to be able to stare at that melted down motel in Kenwood.

Now they get to star at a rusted tower..lol

 

Talk about a boondoggle... they've got a private sector one staring them in the face!

Horstman, again:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110704/NEWS0108/107050317/Battery-powered-streetcars-Cincinnati

 

I keep hearing over and over from Ghiz and Smitherman that they will cease construction before November with an 'injunction'.  Does anyone know if that actually is the case? 

Saw Smitherman's goons at Hoffner Park today campaigning for his council campaign.  But from what I could tell they weren't collecting signatures for the next streetcar ballot issue.  I suppose that Smitherman is thinking that the streetcar ballot issue will give his council campaign all sorts of free publicity.  But he won't be able to devote 100% of his energy to the ballot campaign while attempting to win back a council seat. 

If the battery powered streetcars can take the hills and actually save money, I hope Cincinnati goes with them.

For those interested, I made a brief stop in Portland last month and have finally uploaded my photographs. I was only there for 26 hours, but I was able to walk the entire streetcar route, ride it in several different manners, and use it in conjunction with Portland's MAX light rail.

 

It is really quite remarkable to see what has happened there. While Portland has a lot more new development than many other cities, that development has now been concentrated along these transit lines. The South Waterfront is perhaps the most striking. The former ship building yards have been largely cleared and are being redeveloped into high rise residential towers and offices. The area is not easily accessible by car, so those moving there are doing so with bicyle, streetcar, aerial tram or foot traffic as their primary mode of transportation. It's unbelievable really.

 

You can view my photos from Portland, along with some additional narrative, here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26038.0.html

 

Here's a teaser though...

To people complaining about "unsightly" overhead wires, check out that pic. You can barely see them except in the immediate foreground of that photo.

To people complaining about "unsightly" overhead wires, check out that pic. You can barely see them except in the immediate foreground of that photo.

 

Seeing those overhead wires in person allows you to realize how much of a non-issue they really are.

Here are some pics of the wires in all colors of skies and backgrounds. Really, it's a non-issue.

 

http://www.protransit.com/PICS/

Darryl parks just lying on 700wlw over and over .

 

"were sending jobs to japan"

 

 

I was just in Chicago over the weekend... saw the L for the first time. If people want to see an intrusive transit system, just check out the L loop downtown.

 

Edit:

 

Although I will say that I loved it and it creates a really cool atmosphere. To think Cincy would have had similar infrastructure down around 3rd street if the subway had been completed as planned.

Nice photos Randy. Makes me almost shed a tear. :)

Yeah I heard the morning guy on 550 (not Brian Thomas, a sub) this guy complaining about the streetcar.  What's so interesting is that the anti-streetcar arguments they use are actually a rehashing of anti-streetcar propaganda from the 1940s which led to the scrapping of nearly every streetcar line in the united states in the 1950s. 

 

Specifically, you hear over and over the anecdote about how neighborhood boys would pull the troller off of the overhead wire.  The driver would have to get out and raise the thing back to the wire.  Somehow this occasional prank was a major argument against streetcars in the postwar years, and is being rehashed by old people again, despite the fact that new streetcars use pantographs that raise and lower automatically.

 

 

My grandfather told me that the trawlers sometimes came off the wire by themselves, and especially on the trackless trollies when they strayed too far away from the wire. The trolley would be stuck there, and a truck would have to be dispached to push them back online.

 

 

My grandfather told me that the trawlers sometimes came off the wire by themselves, and especially on the trackless trollies when they strayed too far away from the wire. The trolley would be stuck there, and a truck would have to be dispached to push them back online.

 

 

 

 

In six years of riding the the #4 trolley bus to school, I think I actually saw that happen maybe two or three times.  About once every two or three years!

Again, trolley poles coming off the wires is a moot point, since all modern streetcars use pantographs.  However, the most basic factual details escape seemingly any public discussion of streetcars. 

Jake, reality has a well-known liberal bias.  I wouldn't expect the facts to have much bearing to some.

The fact that the opposition is pulling out garbage like that tells me that they are desperate at this point.

Done with 700wlw.  Can't watch dog these hacks anymore.  So many lies and misinformation.  Parks now railing about American jobs being lost because of 'the trolley'. 

 

For those interested, Amy Murray is on at 11:06 to agree with everything Parks  says.

Turn em off!  Everybody else has!

 

Randy, thanks for the Portland photos on the other thread.

 

 

Portland's demographics are completely different from Cincinnati's.

 

That's what I was trying to say about 100 pages back.  ;)

 

 

Third round of Tiger grants announced:

 

http://fastlane.dot.gov/2011/07/tiger-3.html

 

 

Randy, thanks for the Portland photos on the other thread.

 

 

Portland's demographics are completely different from Cincinnati's.

 

That's what I was trying to say about 100 pages back.  ;)

 

 

 

I think people understood that and got that point you seemed to reiterate quite a few times. Still was a weak argument against the streetcar.

Seeing those overhead wires in person allows you to realize how much of a non-issue they really are.

 

Its a non-issue in Dayton, too, since we still have trolleybusses.  There are overheads on most of the main streets leading out of downtown, for the busses.

 

So, are there any warm fuzzies yet on how this issue might play out at the polls?

 

The wires in Dayton are definitely much more noticeable than are the sort of modern streetcar wires we are talking about. 

Hmmm i heard of one proposal before linking KY and Cincy. But at $1 million per mile why didn't Cincinnati look into this? http://www.atsltd.co.uk/

Hmmm i heard of one proposal before linking KY and Cincy. But at $1 million per mile why didn't Cincinnati look into this? http://www.atsltd.co.uk/

 

I don't believe that dollar amount is realistic.

 

Elevated PRT was proposed for Cincinnati some years ago, and the Enquirer published some pretty pictures, but it was never a serious proposal.

 

Downtown Cincinnati has a great deal of rush-hour and peak loading, and the PRT was not capable of handling peak loads. It had even less peak capacity than a bus! Besides that, the technology had not been proven in practice. It may work in some applications, though.

 

 

What's the next hurdle for the streetcar? Will groundbreaking occur before the November election?

Since there will be an anti-streetcar amendment on the ballot, I think it's CRUCIAL that groundbreaking begin before the election.  If we've had 6 weeks of construction, and people see cones, workers, etc. there will be a massive energy about the project that will propel a defeat of the charter amendment. 

 

John, Any news on this??

^ I have no word on a groundbreaking. However, when the project does start, you may be underwhelmed by what you see at first. A lot of it will be utility work that may seem unrelated to any track work. One of the first things they will do is start construction on the car barn.

 

I suspect that one of these days we'll all get an email inviting Cincinnatians to come to a groundbreaking the next morning, something like that.

 

Speaking of groundbreaking, I know this is kind of silly, but how does a groundbreaking ceremony go if it's in the street? Usually a bunch of politicians in suits and hardhats with brand new shovels line up for a photo op, and they toss a shovelful of grass and topsoil while mugging for the camera. What are they going to do if it's in the street? Swing pickaxes?

 

Sorry, I just get a kick out of poking fun at politicians.

 

Speaking of groundbreaking, I know this is kind of silly, but how does a groundbreaking ceremony go if it's in the street? Usually a bunch of politicians in suits and hardhats with brand new shovels line up for a photo op, and they toss a shovelful of grass and topsoil while mugging for the camera. What are they going to do if it's in the street? Swing pickaxes?

 

Sorry, I just get a kick out of poking fun at politicians.

 

The site of the maintenance facility would probably be the easiest place to do it.

I personally would love to see Mark Mallory wielding a jackhammer. 

Signed contracts are more important than groundbreaking.

^Not to a politican who needs to get some credit before the next election!

I meant for the future of the streetcar.

 

A few blocks of tracks in the ground would be nice, but that seems almost impossible at this point. The next best thing is signed contracts which essentially make it illegal not to build the streetcar.

 

Speaking of groundbreaking, I know this is kind of silly, but how does a groundbreaking ceremony go if it's in the street? Usually a bunch of politicians in suits and hardhats with brand new shovels line up for a photo op, and they toss a shovelful of grass and topsoil while mugging for the camera. What are they going to do if it's in the street? Swing pickaxes?

 

Sorry, I just get a kick out of poking fun at politicians.

 

I've seen ones where they put a tarp down and give each person their own pile of dirt to turn over.

If the streetcar proponents are looking for a publicity stunt, I think getting something running on a completely different alignment will go a long way in attracting public attention. I have mentioned the existing tracks by the boathouse. Even if it's not meant to be any kind of viable transportation, it will probably get enough tourist traffic to show that it is serious and not just a toonerville trolley.

^But again, that misses the whole point. Why waste money on something that even you admit isn't viable transportation option (which the streetcar is), won't promote economic development (which is a key point to the project) and wouldn't run in the same fashion (as you stated before: running it on a generator).

 

The tracks by the boathouse are nice, they'd be great for light or commuter rail and I wish they'd be used, but as a streetcar demonstrator they defeat the purpose. Mainly, they don't run in the street. It's not a viable publicity stunt, it doesn't properly represent the project and the point of a streetcar is to not just attract tourists.

^^ One of the opponents' primary stated beefs with the project is that it is a waste of money because it "doesn't go anywhere". Spending even a fraction of that on a project which does not provide "any kind of viable transportation" (i.e. one which actually doesn't go anywhere), would be taken as an instance that proves the rule that advocates are all about wasting money and don't care that the streetcar would "go nowhere" or not provide viable transportation. Why would we want to feed into their nonsense?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/opinionati/2011/07/13/chabot-questions-streetcar-grant-money/#comments

 

"Rep. Steve Chabot (R-Westwood) wants to know: “Would Cincinnati have been awarded this Urban Circulator Grant if the current streetcar plan were the one originally proposed?”"

Hmmm i heard of one proposal before linking KY and Cincy. But at $1 million per mile why didn't Cincinnati look into this? http://www.atsltd.co.uk/

 

“Isn’t it nice to find transport which is waiting for you,

rather than you waiting for it?”

 

— Russell Goodway, Lord Mayor of Cardiff

 

 

Hee hee....Lord Mayor....

 

 

 

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/opinionati/2011/07/13/chabot-questions-streetcar-grant-money/#comments

 

"Rep. Steve Chabot (R-Westwood) wants to know: “Would Cincinnati have been awarded this Urban Circulator Grant if the current streetcar plan were the one originally proposed?”"

 

Good God this crowd just doesn't give up.  If they put half the energy into helping the city instead of railing against every project, Cincy would be a world class city (exaggeration for those taking me literally but my point still stands). 

 

 

I really don't see how this modification from the original bid could drastically affect the FTA grant. The original bid didn't include the Uptown connector. The only part currently missing it from 5th Street to the banks.

This long lead time is really hampering the momentum.  And giving tons of time to the opponents to just lob more threats, etc.

Need some pics if you have them.

 

Iv'e been making presentations on the streetcar, and I could use some new pics of modern streetcars in Seattle, Tacoma and Portland. Also, anyone has a pic of the PCC car running on SF's "F" Line that is painted in the livery of the old Cincinnati Street Railway System? I have one someone took with a cell phone, but it's not very good.

 

If you have some to share, please send them to me at [email protected]. Thanks.

The presentation by Judi Craig with Parsons Brinckerhoff on the streetcar project last night was mostly more of the same for anyone who has done any research on this project.  I think the whole thing was designed to give people information on the project who were not really familiar with the basics.  The only new thing was that the people at Parsons Brinckerhoff will be walking door to door to each of the businesses along the line in the next week or so to discuss how this will affect their business (very little impact).

 

The thing that was the most dispiriting was that there will be no tracks going into the ground until Spring at the earliest (utility work is supposedly going to happen in the Fall, but then again this was supposed to start a long, long time ago).  It is really hard to get excited about a project that for various reasons has been delayed more often than I can count.  When talking with a couple of people after the meeting, there was some real doubt expressed that this project is ever going to happen due to the consistent missing of deadlines.  Downtowners have been big supporters of this project, so it's disturbing that (at least anecdotally) morale appears to be dropping.

^But again, that misses the whole point. Why waste money on something that even you admit isn't viable transportation option (which the streetcar is), won't promote economic development (which is a key point to the project) and wouldn't run in the same fashion (as you stated before: running it on a generator).

 

The tracks by the boathouse are nice, they'd be great for light or commuter rail and I wish they'd be used, but as a streetcar demonstrator they defeat the purpose. Mainly, they don't run in the street. It's not a viable publicity stunt, it doesn't properly represent the project and the point of a streetcar is to not just attract tourists.

 

The point is that it is a publicity stunt to build support for the project. The typical person will never see it, but they will see pictures of it in the Enquirer or on television. The boathouse tracks do not run in a street, but a portion of the boathouse tracks runs through a paved area in bicentennial park right next to a street, so it would make a good photo op. It only need run for a few weeks, and doesn't require a maintenance facility, etc.