When talking with a couple of people after the meeting, there was some real doubt expressed that this project is ever going to happen due to the consistent missing of deadlines. 

 

The people who would be responsible for moving the utilities never really took this project seriously in the first place. In the construction industry, it is very common for projects to be proposed and not be built, or be delayed by many years. The most common reason for a project to die is lack of funding; technical and legal issues can usually be worked out, given enough money.

 

The last thing the streetcar needs right now is a "publicity stunt."

^But again, that misses the whole point. Why waste money on something that even you admit isn't viable transportation option (which the streetcar is), won't promote economic development (which is a key point to the project) and wouldn't run in the same fashion (as you stated before: running it on a generator).

 

The tracks by the boathouse are nice, they'd be great for light or commuter rail and I wish they'd be used, but as a streetcar demonstrator they defeat the purpose. Mainly, they don't run in the street. It's not a viable publicity stunt, it doesn't properly represent the project and the point of a streetcar is to not just attract tourists.

 

The point is that it is a publicity stunt to build support for the project. The typical person will never see it, but they will see pictures of it in the Enquirer or on television. The boathouse tracks do not run in a street, but a portion of the boathouse tracks runs through a paved area in bicentennial park right next to a street, so it would make a good photo op. It only need run for a few weeks, and doesn't require a maintenance facility, etc.

 

But again, it misses the point. The point of the streetcar is not photo ops and having it run through Bicentenial Park does not reflect nor would it achieve the goals of the proposed project. Renting one, modifying the tracks and then running it through that area would be a waste of money. In terms of building support, the money could be much better spent on helping to drum up support for the project or campaigning against the opposition.

 

Not to mention, we already had a photo op and a chance for people to see it:

^Modifying the tracks? I thought streetcars ran on standard guage.

 

Something about a streetcar body on the bed of a truck just doesn't seem right.

 

So if the last thing the streetcar needs is a publicity stunt, what is the first thing it needs?

 

So if the last thing the streetcar needs is a publicity stunt, what is the first thing it needs?

 

Duke Energy's cooperation.

It is really hard to get excited about a project that for various reasons has been delayed more often than I can count.

 

This is starting to sound like the infamous subway....

 

...which also shows it is possible to get construction well underway and still abandon the project. 

 

So, has there been any polling on this upcoming referendum y'all are having?

 

 

MONEY:

 

Cincinnati Elections Commission has begun posting candidates filings-  As of July 3, 2011 here is both raised & cash on hand.

 

ANTI-STREETCAR:

<b>Wayne Lippert</b>        Raised: $134,755  COH: $111,941

<b>Charlie Winburn</b>    Raised: $200,004  COH: $143,004

<b>Amy Murray</b>            Raised: $63,410   COH: $44,553

<b>Leslie Ghiz</b>           Raised:

Catherine S. Mills      Raised: $26,860   COH: $20,605

PG Sittenfeld            Raised:

 

 

PRO-STREETCAR:

<b>Laure Quinlivan</b>    Raised:  $47,085   COH: $24,204

<b>Roxanne Qualls</b>      Raised: $27,785   COH: $13,992

<b>Chris Bortz</b>            Raised: $42,270   COH: $17,546

<b>Cecil Thomas</b>        Raised:

<b>Wendell Young </b>    Raised:

Jason Riveiro     Raised: $24,582   COH: $2,018

Yvette Simpson     Raised: $19,597   COH: $12,013

Kevin Flynn         Raised: $20,885   COH: $13,936

Chris Seelbach     Raised:

Nicholas Hollan   Raised:

 

Incumbents are in bold-  PG is rumored to be around $200,000. Seelbach is rumored to be around $75,000.  Hollan is rumored to be around $15,000.  While democrats do need less than republicans to win, these are pretty low numbers when you look at 2009 and 2007 for democrats.  Not the best news for Streetcar supporters...

 

The point is that it is a publicity stunt to build support for the project. The typical person will never see it, but they will see pictures of it in the Enquirer or on television. The boathouse tracks do not run in a street, but a portion of the boathouse tracks runs through a paved area in bicentennial park right next to a street, so it would make a good photo op. It only need run for a few weeks, and doesn't require a maintenance facility, etc.

 

You'd have to get a waiver from the Federal Railroad Administration to run the streetcar on the railroad tracks by the boathouse, and you have to get cooperation the private railroad company which owns those tracks (the Indiana & Ohio Railroad Corp., I believe) that will not run anything on their tracks at pre-arranged times that the streetcar would be operating. It's time-consuming but not impossible to get an FRA waiver, unless the I&O RR doesn't want to relinquish control of their tracks for operating or insurance reasons. Then it is impossible to get.

 

The point is that it is a publicity stunt to build support for the project. The typical person will never see it, but they will see pictures of it in the Enquirer or on television. The boathouse tracks do not run in a street, but a portion of the boathouse tracks runs through a paved area in bicentennial park right next to a street, so it would make a good photo op. It only need run for a few weeks, and doesn't require a maintenance facility, etc.

 

You'd have to get a waiver from the Federal Railroad Administration to run the streetcar on the railroad tracks by the boathouse, and you have to get cooperation the private railroad company which owns those tracks (the Indiana & Ohio Railroad Corp., I believe) that will not run anything on their tracks at pre-arranged times that the streetcar would be operating. It's time-consuming but not impossible to get an FRA waiver, unless the I&O RR doesn't want to relinquish control of their tracks for operating or insurance reasons. Then it is impossible to get.

 

Also... It's pointless.  and won't go anywhere.  And the streetcars themselves won't be delivered for about a year...

^Those tracks are lightly used. The I&O uses those tracks only for the B&B circus train and an occasional passenger excursion, I think, and since they allow certain tourist and dinner trains on their other tracks they may not object to have a streetcar demonstration, especially if they can make a buck or two.  If there's any reason why they wouldn't allow it, it's probably insurance.

 

Meanwhile, SORTA owns the passenger rights to the OASIS line. Do they even need permission from the I&O? I don't know the answer.

 

Maybe it's not the best idea, but it isn't pointless. The point is to get some publicity by having something running. The typical person will see it on television and get the idea that it is a modern streetcar and not a toonerville trolley, a japenese bullet train or a steam locomotive. Despite all of the media coverage, or maybe because of all of the negative coverage, the typical person still doesn't know what it is. 

 

Jeffrey - no polling that I'm aware of. John might know if there is any.

 

 

Mayor Mallory reacts to Chabot letter questioning streetcar

 

http://www.fox19.com/story/15084708/chabots-streetcar-letter

 

 

CINCINNATI, OH (FOX19) -

The streetcar debate continues in the Queen City and on Capitol Hill following Representative Steve Chabot's letter to the transportation secretary.

 

In the letter Chabot questions: "Would Cincinnati have been awarded this Urban Circulator Grant if the current streetcar plan were the one originally proposed?" 

 

"I'm just trying to make sure that our tax dollars are spent in compliance with the law," Representative Chabot said.

 

When Chabot wrote the letter to transportation secretary, he says it was not about asking to get the federal streetcar money back. 

 

"No, not necessarily," he said. "It's critical, however, that we make sure every dollar that's spent is spent as it was intended."

 

While some question whether the letter could be another road block in the construction of the project, Mayor Mallory is not concerned. 

 

"Oh not at all," Mallory said. "I find it to be comical."

 

Mallory says he is confident the revised project is still right on track.

^Typical Tea Party nonsense. These days everyone is some kind of tax watchdog. Chabot is just trying to pose himself as one.

 

Despite all of the media coverage, or maybe because of all of the negative coverage, the typical person still doesn't know what it is. 

 

Given how inaccurately the local media has covered the project so far, why would they cover this any better? I sincerely doubt that they would.

 

Again, with all the logistics involved to pull off such a "stunt" and given how it doesn't reflect the actual streetcar project it's probably not worth the time.

 

It has been shown that the streetcar isn't a "toonville trolley," we had one on display. You could go see it for yourself.

The skepticism about the Cincinnati Streetcar is by no means unique.  Even though Portland had light rail since 1986, a lot of people there -- including the transit agency, TriMet, which ended up operating the streetcar for the city when it opened in 2001 -- called it a "toy train." Now the Portland Streetcar carries more passengers per mile than light rail does, and its economic impact per mile is greater by an order of magnitude. It has been expanded four times in the decade since. This more or less has happened in all the cities that have introduced streetcars. You just have to get it done for people to understand.

 

Some elected officials are so far out there in their opposition to the streetcar that when it's successful, as all these projects have been, it may come back to bite them.

 

 

 

 

...

 

Some elected officials are so far out there in their opposition to the streetcar that when it's successful, as all these projects have been, it may come back to bite them.

 

 

we can only hope!

 

Despite all of the media coverage, or maybe because of all of the negative coverage, the typical person still doesn't know what it is. 

 

Given how inaccurately the local media has covered the project so far, why would they cover this any better? I sincerely doubt that they would.

 

Again, with all the logistics involved to pull off such a "stunt" and given how it doesn't reflect the actual streetcar project it's probably not worth the time.

 

It has been shown that the streetcar isn't a "toonville trolley," we had one on display. You could go see it for yourself.

 

It's true- Even when the Streetcar was on Fountain Square, Channel 5 showed a picture of an old school trolley during the opening of the segment, then played footage of the modern day streetcar, then went back to the picture of the old school trolley while the news anchors talked about the streetcar in the newsroom.

 

If they're going to show pictures of little trolleys while covering a modern day streetcar on fountain square, then there is seriously no point to wasting millions of dollars trying to make a fake display streetcar that goes back and forth to no where.

 

Plus, Leslie Ghiz FREAKED OUT that the city spent $3,000 having police guard the display streetcar- Imagine what she'd do if we had some silly display one going back and forth on the riverfront.

Reality check: if we were to order modern streetcars today, they wouldn't arrive until sometime in the last half of 2013. Getting the car here from Portland last November was dumb luck, someone being in the right place at the right time to ask for it to come here.

Now the people who want to force you to drive everywhere or else leave Ohio want to take away the federal Urban Circulator grant earned by the streetcar project. This was in Steve Shazbot!'s e-mail newsletter......

 

Letter to Secretary LaHood regarding Cincinnati's Streetcar Project

 

June 15, 2011

 

Dear Secretary LaHood,

 

As you may know, the city of Cincinnati has been in the planning process of constructing a streetcar for the past several years.  The primary funding for this project came in the form of an Urban Circulator Grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation for $25 million.

 

The city of Cincinnati was awarded this grant over many other cities in competition because Cincinnati claimed that the streetcar would have a strong economic impact on the city.  However, since Cincinnati was originally named as the recipient of the grant, significant changes have been made to the streetcar plan.

 

The original plan allotted for six cars to be purchased and for the route to be six miles in length.  But since the grant was awarded in July of 2010, funds accounted for in the original proposal and necessary for the project – $51.8 million from the Ohio Transportation Review Advisory Council (TRAC) – have been reallocated to different state projects.

 

Thus, the plan for the Cincinnati Streetcar has been scaled back considerably.  Instead of the six trolley cars, there will only be five; and instead of the six mile track, it will be three.

 

One of the criteria used by the Federal Transit Authority to evaluate Urban Circulator Projects is leverage of public and private investments.  Without Ohio’s TRAC funds, would this project meet the criteria?  An additional criterion used by the FTA is economic development.  The FTA states that consideration will be given to whether the plans, policies and motivation encourage economic development through the creation of jobs in the surrounding community.  The original feasibility study claimed that up to 1,135 new housing units would be a result of the streetcar, and that in total the estimated economic impact would equate to approximately $1.4 billion.  With the revised route, does the streetcar project still meet the criteria?

 

So, all things considered, I must pose the most sincere question – would Cincinnati have been awarded this Urban Circulator Grant if the current streetcar plan were the one originally proposed?  .

 

Thank you for your consideration.  I look forward to your response.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Steve Chabot

Member of Congress

So Steve Chabot would prefer a $25 million federal investment in Cincinnati go somewhere else. Nothing new from do nothing Chabot.

I have a strong feelin that once this streetcar is built that it will be expanded numerous times as the city and region falls in love again with the streetcar....just like Philly , DC , and Portland have....

Sh*tbot's letter, I'm sorry, I meant Chabot's letter, brings to light another huge problem in Ohio in general.  There is a massive lack of young political leadership.  A majority of the people bellyaching over this streetcar are from the very same era that eliminated them and bulldozed our cities.  we don't really have a critical mass of younger voices in place to overcome all of this old thinking.

I would like to see streetcar proponents find a way to get some positive messages out about this project.  I am amazed how often I am out with people and become involved in conversations where  people are soooo opposed to this project.  They simply spew out the garbage they have heard in the media, and their mind is made up.  After having some time to tell them another side of the picture, I can see that they are at least open to the idea, and some even become sold on it.  However, it would be foolish to think that these few conversations that streetcar supporters have is enough to make sure this project moves forward.  We need a full-scale positive media campaign....and we need it now.  Minds are already being cemented against this streetcar.  we must find a way to continue to hammer away at the positive economic impact this project can have.  I dont think it would hurt to portray the foes of this project like crazy Tom Luken, whom average older voters put much stock in, as old fogeys who have had their time in limelight, and it is now time for a  younger generation of people to have the chance to shape the city they will be living in long after the Tom Lukens and Steve Chabots of the world have passed on.

 

 

Here's the problem...go speak in front of groups of old people, as I have about a dozen times in the past year, and it all goes in one ear and out the other.  They simply don't get it.  One of my uncles said it this way to me several years ago: the WWII generation always trusts the official story and has no history of protesting.  As such, their blame is easily diverted by The Man away from The Man and to the protestor. 

 

What's amazing is how these younger people like Glen Beck and in Cincinnati Doc Thompson (age 38~) have identified exactly how to trick that entire generation.  The ads during their radio shows are hilarious, it's always for gold and hearing aids. 

 

 

Sh*tbot's letter, I'm sorry, I meant Chabot's letter, brings to light another huge problem in Ohio in general.  There is a massive lack of young political leadership.  A majority of the people bellyaching over this streetcar are from the very same era that eliminated them and bulldozed our cities.  we don't really have a critical mass of younger voices in place to overcome all of this old thinking.

I would like to see streetcar proponents find a way to get some positive messages out about this project.  I am amazed how often I am out with people and become involved in conversations where  people are soooo opposed to this project.  They simply spew out the garbage they have heard in the media, and their mind is made up.  After having some time to tell them another side of the picture, I can see that they are at least open to the idea, and some even become sold on it.  However, it would be foolish to think that these few conversations that streetcar supporters have is enough to make sure this project moves forward.  We need a full-scale positive media campaign....and we need it now.  Minds are already being cemented against this streetcar.  we must find a way to continue to hammer away at the positive economic impact this project can have.  I dont think it would hurt to portray the foes of this project like crazy Tom Luken, whom average older voters put much stock in, as old fogeys who have had their time in limelight, and it is now time for a  younger generation of people to have the chance to shape the city they will be living in long after the Tom Lukens and Steve Chabots of the world have passed on.

 

 

 

Luckly the suburbanites, who overwhelmingly oppose the project, can't vote in November.  So when 700wlw bashes the project daily and gives airtime to the opponents daily, its just preaching to the choir. 

 

The issue, again, comes down to the restrictive language of the initiative's wording as many people want to see light rail in Cincinnati.  Many do not realize (And the Enquirer/700wlw is not telling them) that this would ban all all rail inside Cincy for a decade without a vote.  This info will be crucial again and I imagine as we get nearer to Nov. and Smitherman makes it official that it is going on the ballot...again...that the PR will ramp up

 

"The suburbanites, who overwhelmingly oppose the project, can't vote..."

 

The situation is much more complicated than that, since suburbanites can still support the issue with campaign donations. The Hamilton County stadium tax, for example, had lots of support from outside the county including Northern Kentucky. In addition, some City of Cincinnati city council incumbants and candidates have aspirations of moving on to Hamilton County Commissioner or state and federal offices, and while serving on city council are already trying to build a following in the wider political district. Finally, much of the City of Cincinnati IS suburban, especially on the West Side. Go take a drive out to Westwood, Mt. Airy, or College Hill; the built form is only slightly more dense than Green, Colerain, or West Chester townships.

 

In my humble opinion, a small minority of urban pioneers in Over-the-Rhine and Clifton is NOT going to generate enough support for the streetcar. Instead of alienating them, why not get them on the proponent's side?

 

Any election that splits the vote between young and old is going to be won by the old. First, there are more of them. Second, the older generation consistently has a higher participation rate. Third, anyone under 18 doesn't contribute to the election at all, while there is no cooresponding age limit at the high end. Just look at what is happening with Social Security: young people are being told that Social Security is going to be bankrupt in 30 years, while the old people keep on supporting it.

 

Democracy is a terrible way to run a railroad.  I'm not sure how the streetcar ended up in the political arena in the first place; maybe Metro Moves started it off. The City of Cincinnati never asked for an election before rebuilding Fort Washington Way.

The City of Cincinnati hasn't asked for either of these votes on the streetcar...that would be Smitherman and COAST.

^That's why I mentioned Metro Moves, which included a streetcar component very similar to the current proposal, and therefore put the streetcar in the political arena in the first place.  You can think of the streetcar as the Metro Moves plan scaled back.

 

 

Cincinnati hasn't voted to fund a road project of any kind since 1956.  Fort Washington Way breezed through because Ohio had just increased its gasoline tax and was flush with cash.   

 

Nobody remembers the streetcar component of Metro Moves because nobody even seems to remember Metro Moves.  We keep hearing the opponents say the streetcar needs to be studied more.  Then if you point out that it's been studied since 2007 and talked about since 2002, they (TOM LUKEN) say "you've been doing all this and having nothing to show for it".  They always win the "argument". 

Also, with all this talk of "carmeggeddon" in Los Angeles, Cincinnatians have forgotten that we had one here for six months.  The eastbound lanes of Fort Washington Way and the Lytle Tunnel were closed for six months back in 1999 and somehow the city survived. 

 

Here is a photo I took during the tunnel closure: http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/zlytle7.jpg

 

I don't think it's much of a stretch to speculate that Fort Washington Way could have been replaced by an at-grade boulevard and the city would be better off in several ways, one being that more traffic would be diverted away from the Brent Spence Bridge and onto the I-471 bridge.  We also wouldn't be facing the struggle to fund decks over Fort Washington Way. 

 

 

^ God knows, we tried. Kentucky would have nothing to do with it. One problem was, the I-471 bridge is not designed to carry the amount of truck traffic the Brent Spence carries. And there are a series of grades on I-275 through Kentucky that would have challenged trucks going from I-471 to I-75.  Plus the suburbs were going to fight us on the increased truck traffic on I-275, claiming they didn't have hazmat capabilities to deal with incidents.

 

I suspect I'll live long enough to see the day when there are trains in half of the current FWW trench.

"The opponents say the streetcar needs to be studied more."

 

Studies are a cop-out for making a decision. Asking for more studies indicates that the arguments for the project aren't strong enough to warrant full support for construction, yet there is still enough interest in the project that it is not politically correct to kill it once and for all.

 

The streetcar project might be a wild success, but it could also be a dismall failure. There is no guarantee that if construction were to start today, that it will actually be finished on time and on budget. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that if it is built it will realize it's redevelop potential. It is an extraordinary risk for a politician to support such a highly visible project. At the same time, there is a risk that the project WILL be a success; any politician who opposes it now could be the laughingstock later. So, the politicians tend to sit on the fence and offer a token amount of support for more studies, rather than coming up with the money to build it outright.

 

Compare to a water, sewer, highway, or bridge job. The public doesn't follow those jobs because they are boring, and they do not make the news. The streetcar is a highly visible project that everyone seems to have an opinion about, whether they know what they are talking about or not.

 

Queen City Metro started using the big articulated buses on some of the main corridors a year or two ago. They didn't have public meetings, ballot initiatives, or City Council debates. They just did it, with a minimum of public involvement. No one seemed to notice, especially the suburbanites who have never ridden a city bus before. Not surprisingly, they have gotten hardly a mention on this board, which despite all of the bashing of the local mainstream media, basicly mimics the topics presented by the media. But in terms of the transit history of Cincinnati, those big articulated busses are pretty significant; not since the historic Cincinnati streetcars were able to pull a "dummy" car for more capacity or since some of the interurbans pulled freight cars has anything so big occupied Cincinnati's streets.

John what's so ridiculous about Kentucky's complaints is that through traffic on I-71 can simply switch over to I-75 at the Norwood Lateral or on I-275.  The Norwood Lateral could be signed as I-71 and the I-471 designation extended north from Liberty St. to Ridge. 

 

I do think that the design of Fort Washington Way is quite brilliant but I think the overall problem with it and the stadiums/riverfront plan is that it will take so long for the market to build-out the area, even with the assistance of significant public outlays, that the Bengals might up and leave and by 2030 we'll have a football stadium that is empty 365 days a year instead of 355. 

^The overall problem with the stadium plan is that the stadiums, especially the football stadium, is just so big that it overpowers the scale of everything around it, it is surrounded by a sea of parking lots, and there is practically no private property to develop anywhere near it.

 

I never expected this proposal to be taken seriously since it was outside of Hamilton County, but I mentioned to my friends that the football stadium would have fit much better next to the ATP tennis center across from Kings Island - the highway and parking infrastructure was already there.

 

It's hard to imagine the football stadium integrated with the streetcar. Everyone is going to want to use the streetcar in the hour before and after the game, yet they are not going to want to walk through a sea of parking lots to get to the streetcar. Place the station too close to the stadium and there will be a crowding problem, but place it too far away and people won't use it.

 

How does the Waterfront Line in Cleveland do on game days?

 

 

^The overall problem with the stadium plan is that the stadiums, especially the football stadium, is just so big that it overpowers the scale of everything around it, it is surrounded by a sea of parking lots, and there is practically no private property to develop anywhere near it.

 

I never expected this proposal to be taken seriously since it was outside of Hamilton County, but I mentioned to my friends that the football stadium would have fit much better next to the ATP tennis center across from Kings Island - the highway and parking infrastructure was already there.

 

It's hard to imagine the football stadium integrated with the streetcar. Everyone is going to want to use the streetcar in the hour before and after the game, yet they are not going to want to walk through a sea of parking lots to get to the streetcar. Place the station too close to the stadium and there will be a crowding problem, but place it too far away and people won't use it.

 

How does the Waterfront Line in Cleveland do on game days?

 

 

 

Sea of parking lots?

^The overall problem with the stadium plan is that the stadiums, especially the football stadium, is just so big that it overpowers the scale of everything around it, it is surrounded by a sea of parking lots, and there is practically no private property to develop anywhere near it.

 

Have you been down town recently? North of the Stadium is FOrt Washington Way and what used to be parking lots is currently closed for Banks Phase II. To the East those lots are closed and currently being converted to CRP. At the South, Mehring Way and a small sliver of a lot. West, the practice fields.

 

Where's this "Sea of Parking Lots" you speak of?

 

As for highway and parking infrastructure around Kings Island for a Football Stadium, I use that exit on an almost daily basis. It's a mess when the ATP is in town or when the park has a busy day.

 

Build the Streetcar, people coming to and from games would use it.

^The overall problem with the stadium plan is that the stadiums, especially the football stadium, is just so big that it overpowers the scale of everything around it, it is surrounded by a sea of parking lots, and there is practically no private property to develop anywhere near it.

 

I never expected this proposal to be taken seriously since it was outside of Hamilton County, but I mentioned to my friends that the football stadium would have fit much better next to the ATP tennis center across from Kings Island - the highway and parking infrastructure was already there.

 

It's hard to imagine the football stadium integrated with the streetcar. Everyone is going to want to use the streetcar in the hour before and after the game, yet they are not going to want to walk through a sea of parking lots to get to the streetcar. Place the station too close to the stadium and there will be a crowding problem, but place it too far away and people won't use it.

 

How does the Waterfront Line in Cleveland do on game days?

 

 

 

No private property to develop? Well,  I guess that's true if you fail to consider the 14-acre, $1 billion Banks project between Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ball Park.

^The overall problem with the stadium plan is that the stadiums, especially the football stadium, is just so big that it overpowers the scale of everything around it, it is surrounded by a sea of parking lots, and there is practically no private property to develop anywhere near it.

 

Have you been down town recently? North of the Stadium is FOrt Washington Way and what used to be parking lots is currently closed for Banks Phase II. To the East those lots are closed and currently being converted to CRP. At the South, Mehring Way and a small sliver of a lot. West, the practice fields.

 

Where's this "Sea of Parking Lots" you speak of?

 

As for highway and parking infrastructure around Kings Island for a Football Stadium, I use that exit on an almost daily basis. It's a mess when the ATP is in town or when the park has a busy day.

 

Build the Streetcar, people coming to and from games would use it.

 

I agree.  I used to golf all the time at the Grizzly, and during any events (ATP, PGA, etc), it was a disaster to get in and out of.  It's not even close to the highways.

Back to the ballot issue. I work in PR so I can sort of speak from a professional side of things but right now it seems that the anti-rail folks are winning the battle of the press. Sure, that's easy when the local media is backing you but the total idiocy of the ballot initiative needs to be pointed out BIG TIME.  Once again, the point needs to be raised that the current anti-rail ballot initiative would affect the Zoo train, Union Terminal, and the Cincinnati Southern. Not to mention the ROW that the city currently owns. The battle isn't about the streetcar, it's about the future of passenger rail in Cincinnati and that point needs to be made to people now.

I don't think 8th and state actually lives in Cincinnati anymore... You do realize that in about 3 years there won't BE any more surface lots, and there area already only 3 left.. As of November, Freedom way will be a street that goes from one stadium to the other. a beautiful, brick and tree lined street.

 

Chabot was just on 700 WLW talking about getting the $25 million urban circulator grant returned.  He was factually innacurate, of course, in describing the project, and argued that since we don't have money to send out social security checks we shouldn't be building streetcars.

 

Never mind that the social security crowd are the people responsible for this country being so $@!%ed up.  They get tricked every single time by the simplest rhetoric. 

You all realize what a national black eye this is going to be if this streetcar project is defeated.  At least for progressives and urbanists (if there is such a thing).  And especially since projects like this (including light rail, which is different but similar in that its rail transit) are generally supported elsewhere.  Including places considerably more conservative than Cincy (like the Salt Lake area...AKA 'Wasatch Front') and Charlotte.

 

It will again confirm certain negative stereotypes about  backward, benighted & conservative Cincinnati (and perhaps about Ohio as well)

I'm pretty sure there is 0% chance that the money would be revoked.

Here's the COAST ballot language. Make sure everyone you know understands how bad this is.

 

http://blog.cincinnatiansforprogress.com/2011_06_01_archive.html

Could someone please list the candidates for council by relative strength of support for the streetcar? I want to do something to make sure it happens besides donate money.

STREETCAR SUPPORTERS:

 

Bortz

Qualls

Quinlivan

Thomas

Young

Riveiro

Simpson

Hollan

Seelbach

 

STREETCAR OPPONENTS:

 

Winburn

Lippert

Ghiz

Murray

Mills

Sittenfeld

 

 

 

 

"Freedom way will be a street that goes from one stadium to the other. a beautiful, brick and tree lined street. "

 

I am happy that some effort is being put into the infrastructure to make it pedestrian-friendly and all, but the stadiums especially the football stadium are just so big that they overpower the potential for a human-scaled environment. I guess it could have been worse.

 

 

I heard from a source very close to Sittenfeld that he is very much in favor of the streetcar, but for political reasons (to ensure he gets elected) he is choosing NOT to state a position on it. He is endorsed by the Dems, and this source made a good point: Would Mallory have allowed the Democratic Party to endorse someone against the streetcar?

I heard from a source very close to Sittenfeld that he is very much in favor of the streetcar, but for political reasons (to ensure he gets elected) he is choosing NOT to state a position on it. He is endorsed by the Dems, and this source made a good point: Would Mallory have allowed the Democratic Party to endorse someone against the streetcar?

 

Mallory is pissed at Sittenfeld.  The Dems endorsed Pat Fischer and he was against everything the mayor was for.

Could someone please list the candidates for council by relative strength of support for the streetcar? I want to do something to make sure it happens besides donate money.

STREETCAR SUPPORTERS:

 

Bortz

Qualls

Quinlivan

Thomas

Young

Riveiro

Simpson

Hollan

Seelbach

 

STREETCAR OPPONENTS:

 

Winburn

Lippert

Ghiz

Murray

Mills

Sittenfeld

 

 

John, I can't tell if you were actually rating them in order of support as OTR asked, but if you were, I disagree greatly.

 

I would say:

 

Qualls

Quinlivan

Seelbach

Riveiro

 

Take active positions on the campaign trail that I am aware of. I think Simpson & Hollan do as well, but I haven't seen them advocate in person.

 

 

I heard from a source very close to Sittenfeld that he is very much in favor of the streetcar, but for political reasons (to ensure he gets elected) he is choosing NOT to state a position on it. He is endorsed by the Dems, and this source made a good point: Would Mallory have allowed the Democratic Party to endorse someone against the streetcar?

 

Probably not a guy we can count on when the going gets tough. And it will be tough for the several years while we're building the streetcar. There will be more votes before the first streetcar rolls.

 

Simpson is very much a supporter, very strong in her testimony in defense of the streetcar at the May City Council meeting Winburn called.

^ Yup, I forgot about that City Hall meeting- I did hear her speak out for the streetcar there.  So that's 5 members who are very strongly advocating, also, Thomas and Young vote for the streetcar, but Young has seemed a bit more hesitant lately.

 

If Sittenfeld is a streetcar supporter pretending to be against it to win, I wouldn't trust him once in office.  He has raised more money than any other candidate, and if he's been raising it by being against (or at least not for) the streetcar, his major donors will expect the same from him once he's on council.