John what's so ridiculous about Kentucky's complaints is that through traffic on I-71 can simply switch over to I-75 at the Norwood Lateral or on I-275.  The Norwood Lateral could be signed as I-71 and the I-471 designation extended north from Liberty St. to Ridge. 

 

Is the Lateral modern Interstate-grade? I don't think that can be done; the ramps seem too short among other factors.

The Norwood lateral is nowhere close to modern interstate standards.  It didn't even meet the standards in the 1970s when most of it was built. 

Re: the Norwood Lateral...I envision DOZENS of contractors wanting to do those upgrades. 

>I think Simpson & Hollan do as well, but I haven't seen them advocate in person.

 

I have seen Hollan speak in support of the streetcar. 

 

 

>Is the Lateral modern Interstate-grade?

 

The majority of I-75 in Hamilton County isn't compliant either. 

I don't think it's much of a stretch to speculate that Fort Washington Way could have been replaced by an at-grade boulevard and the city would be better off in several ways, one being that more traffic would be diverted away from the Brent Spence Bridge and onto the I-471 bridge.  We also wouldn't be facing the struggle to fund decks over Fort Washington Way. 

 

 

Personally, I wish 471 *was* I-71.  I-71 would officially split onto 275 from the south until reaching the current 471 interchange, it would then continue through highland heights and reach the river as its own interstate designation, diverting half the traffic off the Brent Spence, removing the need for Ft. Washington way, removing half the chaotic overpasses that take up lots of potential developmental space on the southwest side of downtown, etc.

 

On google, it adds about 2 minutes to your drive, but probably half a billion dollars in potential new development and at least a billion in savings on the Brent Spence.

 

WHY ARENT WE IN CHARGE!

___________________________

 

In streetcar news....

 

Today COAST attacked all pro-streetcar candidates who don't have "I support the Cincinnati Streetcar" explicitly in bold on their websites.

 

They tweeted at:

Yvette Simpson

Kevin Flynn

Chris Seelbach

Cecil Thomas

Wendell Young

Nick Hollan

Jason Riveiro

 

They did not tweet at PG Sittenfeld, showing that he is NOT considered to be a streetcar proponent by the most anti-streetcar group in existence.

 

 

Personally, I wish 471 *was* I-71.  I-71 would officially split onto 275 from the south until reaching the current 471 interchange, it would then continue through highland heights and reach the river as its own interstate designation, diverting half the traffic off the Brent Spence, removing the need for Ft. Washington way, removing half the chaotic overpasses that take up lots of potential developmental space on the southwest side of downtown, etc.

 

 

That would make too much sense. Also this would allow FWW to convert into a large scale underground transit center and the ability to build on top of it.

Even though I am for the streetcar, I cant stomach a vote for Laurie Quniliven, she is a waste of space.

 

Voting for people purely on the basis that they are in support of the streetcar means that you are not voting based on overall qualifications or rationale, but purely on special interests. But hey, I voted for President Obama solely because he was black!

Voting for people purely on the basis that they are in support of the streetcar means that you are not voting based on overall qualifications or rationale, but purely on special interests. But hey, I voted for President Obama solely because he was black!

 

Ok- These comments are ridiculous--

 

But the point of having a Streetcar Slate is no different from any PAC or political group that endorses.  Based on one issue, these are the best 9.

I think the point I was making, was that voting for a person based on one ideal may not be the best route to go. For instance, I disapprove of several of the "pro-streetcar" candidates based on their qualifications. I also disapprove of several "anti-streetcar" candidates because their fiscal reform ideals have not matched up to their rhetoric. But it's silly so say (you - someone) is going to vote only for pro-streetcar candidates when they have little or no political experience, or have little fiscal restraint, or ... you get the picture.

 

In the same line of thought, there are people who voted for Obama on the basis of skin color, not on his qualifications, track record, et. al.

I think your point is that it makes no sense to be a "single-issue" voter. But I think you have to remember which council members are serious about the streetcar (either for or against) and which ones are just using the issue to pander to their base.

I've asked a few times where the candidates stand concerning the streetcar. It's a good idea to form your own "streetcar slate" if that's the most important issue to you but I would shy away from pushing a "Streetcar Slate" to the public at large. Sherman makes a good point.

Oh right, it's good to have a list of supporters. I think it's good that people are informed of that in this specific thread. Not complaining about that :)

I am feeling very confident about Cincinnatians for Progress' campaign against the COAST ballot issue. We're meeting continuously, raising money and getting some great endorsements in opposition. We've had a professional campaign manager working for months.

 

We are hiring professionals to scrutinize their petitions when they submit them, people who know where to look for evidence that signatures were improperly collected.

 

COAST has over-reached. Few Cincinnatians are today aware of how deceptive and dishonest the ballot language is. When people actually read what it says, they react almost viscerally against it. Even people who aren't crazy about the streetcar understand that it is a back-door scheme to kill light rail, which a growing number of people now seem to want.

 

I believe we'll be done with these guys after November 8th. They will have little credibility for opposing rail in the future. Or anything else, for that matter. If Chris Smitherman thinks this is going to propel him onto City Council, he's likely to discover that this has backfired on him.

 

Meanwhile, another CFP fundraiser is planned for August 25th, after work. Please save the date.

A Cleveland guy here...

 

The streetcar should be an awesome addition to Cincinnati I am very jealous! Since there are 464 pages and I haven't been keeping up on this thread, could someone tell me how much the project is going to cost and a link to the proposed route and whats with all this opposition I am hearing about?

 

  OK, I'll bite.

 

  Cost: ~$128 million

  Route: a loop through downtown Cincinnati and Over-the-Rhine mostly on a pair of north-south one-way streets.

  Opposition: Organized by a fellow named Smitherman who is a political enemy of the mayor.

 

    That's the short version.

Official version: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/noncms/projects/streetcar/

The gang is collecting signatures at intersection of Glenway and Glenmore tomorrow July 27th from 5-6:30.

 

"Let the people decide!(again)"

I think the point I was making, was that voting for a person based on one ideal may not be the best route to go. For instance, I disapprove of several of the "pro-streetcar" candidates based on their qualifications. I also disapprove of several "anti-streetcar" candidates because their fiscal reform ideals have not matched up to their rhetoric. But it's silly so say (you - someone) is going to vote only for pro-streetcar candidates when they have little or no political experience, or have little fiscal restraint, or ... you get the picture.

 

In the same line of thought, there are people who voted for Obama on the basis of skin color, not on his qualifications, track record, et. al.

 

Let's try this again.

The AFL-CIO releases endorsements based solely on peoples opinions to labor issues.

The Chamber releases their support of candidates solely on business issues.

The Sierra Club releases their endorsements solely on environmental issues.

Right to Life releases their endorsements based solely on abortion issues.

 

There is nothing bizarre, strange, unintelligent, etc. about listing the 9 candidates who support the streetcar. 

 

Individuals then weigh that list against their other concerns and interests and decide who to vote for.

 

I'm pretty sure this was Civics 101.

Which I completely disagree with. It's voting based on special interests. We have people in the local NAACP who were trying to get people to vote for our current President based on the basis of his skin color. Do you have a problem with that?

Groups can put out slates of whoever they want their members and sympathizers to vote for. It doesn't mean they are followed blindly.

Which I completely disagree with. It's voting based on special interests. We have people in the local NAACP who were trying to get people to vote for our current President based on the basis of his skin color. Do you have a problem with that?

K- Go change the world- End every single PAC and union and business group and non-profit that supports political positions.  End them all!

 

While you do that, I will continue to provide a list that helps people know who is pro-streetcar, and who is against.  From there, they can take that information and consider those candidates based on other issues they support and other values. I won't be voting for all 9 in the fall- But it's a fact, those 9 support the streetcar. I've put my support behind a few of them who I feel compliment other issues I'm most supportive of.

Voting for people purely on the basis that they are in support of the streetcar means that you are not voting based on overall qualifications or rationale, but purely on special interests.

 

I do that on gay rights issues.  Our Congressman up here in Dayton is probably a good GOPer for urban affairs but he is pretty much anti-gay rights, so I vote against him.

 

So yeah, Id vote for someone who's a streetcar supporter if thats a big deal to me.

Everyone puts relative weight on different issues. For some people, at some times, one issue trumps all. Saying that is illegitimate is silly.

CFP needs volunteers to distribute flyers downtown and in OTR this weekend and next. If you can give an hour or so, please email cincinnatiansforprogress@gmail​.com.

Which I completely disagree with. It's voting based on special interests. We have people in the local NAACP who were trying to get people to vote for our current President based on the basis of his skin color. Do you have a problem with that?

K- Go change the world- End every single PAC and union and business group and non-profit that supports political positions.  End them all!

 

While you do that, I will continue to provide a list that helps people know who is pro-streetcar, and who is against.  From there, they can take that information and consider those candidates based on other issues they support and other values. I won't be voting for all 9 in the fall- But it's a fact, those 9 support the streetcar. I've put my support behind a few of them who I feel compliment other issues I'm most supportive of.

 

Good for you.

Which I completely disagree with. It's voting based on special interests. We have people in the local NAACP who were trying to get people to vote for our current President based on the basis of his skin color. Do you have a problem with that?

K- Go change the world- End every single PAC and union and business group and non-profit that supports political positions.  End them all!

 

While you do that, I will continue to provide a list that helps people know who is pro-streetcar, and who is against.  From there, they can take that information and consider those candidates based on other issues they support and other values. I won't be voting for all 9 in the fall- But it's a fact, those 9 support the streetcar. I've put my support behind a few of them who I feel compliment other issues I'm most supportive of.

 

Agreed.  Some issues are so basic 'right v. wrong' issues that you feel compelled to vote solely based on that issue.  Gay rights is such an issue for me personally.  And so would be the streetcar.  The way I see it is that I could vote against (or not for) someone who is pro-streetcar but I could not vote for someone who is against the streetcar.  Same goes for gay rights and other basic issues. 

^ Supporting gay rights would be necessary, but not sufficient, for my vote. I wouldn't vote for someone on that issue alone if I disagreed with them on other important things. Buuuuut if the term of office were short and there were a pending vote for some major gay rights issue, I might change my mind about that.

 

Though I did vote for Obama who is anti-marriage rights, so I guess I can compromise on even that issue.

 

Edit for ProkNo5 (I meant to imply something about the streetcar voting discussion, though I didn't mention it explicitly): Since the term of council office is short, and support by council of the streetcar might be crucial to the project, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who strongly favors the project to vote based on this one issue.

Ummm....I think we're off topic.

^ Agreed. Back to the streetcar, please. This tangent can be continued on another thread if desired.

As I asked before, is there any polling out there on the Streetcar referendum?  I think there was a previous referendum on the issue, and are the results from that one being used in the strategy on this one...say, focusing GOTV on certain precincts, etc. 

 

 

Smitherman was on 700...again...for the 1000th time.

As I asked before, is there any polling out there on the Streetcar referendum?  I think there was a previous referendum on the issue, and are the results from that one being used in the strategy on this one...say, focusing GOTV on certain precincts, etc. 

 

 

 

The only poll was that strange won several months ago that asked county voters what they thought of the streetcar.  The most recent campaign finance filing reports have come out now, and public records show Bortz paid $3,000 to the same firm who did that poll around the same time the poll came out. 

 

The only time polls get done in Cincinnati is if someone pays for them- Most political candidates can't afford it and the Enquirer prefers it's silly online polls to realistic polls.

 

In other words, no polls so far. 

(7/26/11): Board of Elections Obstructing Petition Count? PDF Print E-mail

The Hamilton County Board of Elections seems to be obstructing counting the streetcar petitions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cincinnati NAACP

Media Release

.

CINCINNATI, OHIO - JULY 26, 2011 -  The Hamilton County Board of

Elections seems to be obstructing counting the streetcar petitions.

They continue to make excuses on why they are unable to give an

accurate and full count on the streetcar petitions.  The excuses

started on June 29, 2011 when the team was clear it had exceeded the

half way mark.  The team has turned in signatures since June 29, 2011

almost every working day.  "Our petitions will not be moved to the

back of the bus anymore.  Now we must take off the gloves with 13 days

left to collect and ask the board the most serious question.  Are they

obstructing the streetcar petition count?"  Christopher Smitherman,

president of the Cincinnati NAACP said.

.

It is shocking that the Cincinnati NAACP has found numerous errors in

the Board of Election counting signatures.  Our team has brought some

errors to their attention.  "It is a shame that the American process

of Democracy is undermined by errors and excuses.  The Cincinnati

NAACP demands that our signatures be counted accurately and

immediately," Smitherman says.

 

http://naacpcincinnati.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=675&Itemid=42

Good grief Smitherclown...

If Smitherman thinks he has problems now ...

This may reveal who the streetcar supporters/opponents are and also which candidates support or oppose COAST's anti-rail ballot issue:

 

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-2212-council-forum-set-for-friday.html

 

Can anyone go and take notes?

Heard Smitherman's invented news story getting coverage tonight on 550 WKRC.  I don't understand why these media outlets can't tell when they're been took.

 

Story on Channel 19 tonight: http://www.fox19.com/story/15160412/debate-ongoing-between-naacp-and-hamilton-county-board-of-elections?redirected=true

 

The more he's on the news, the better for us.

Heard Smitherman's invented news story getting coverage tonight on 550 WKRC.  I don't understand why these media outlets can't tell when they're been took.

 

 

Guarantee it will be headlined on the Enquirer's website late tonight/early tomorrow, and Doc Thompson/Bill Cunningham will spend an hour with him...

 

 

The silly part is that it's hard to imagine a county body would be willing to fight for the streetcar, let alone do it illegally.

And Doc Thompson already touched on it briefly.  Will get into it more later.  Also telling people to how and where to sign Smitherman's initiative

 

Cmon Enquirer...You're the last one left...Prove me right

The silly part is that it's hard to imagine a county body would be willing to fight for the streetcar, let alone do it illegally.

 

The BoE has been swamped with petitions for SB5 and the anti-Obama health care amendment. Everything has been put on hold and they are  just now catching up.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure the county will have about 1% wrong on all of it's rejected signatures.  Have you seen some of the handwriting that gets turned in!?  It's crazy, and it has nothing to do with the streetcar.  The people at the County BoE couldn't give a damn about the streetcar. 

Can we please get the local media to say what this ballot measure really is? It's not anti-streetcar it's anti all rail private or public. Zoo train included I'm assuming.

<b>Official count as of today July 28, 2011:</b>

 

<b>Streetcar Valid Petition signatures:</b>

3622

 

<b>Required:</b>

~7500

 

 

As a reminder, on June 13, 2009 NAACP & COAST had a press release announcing they had already reached 5000 valid signatures.  They then reached 6,150 required for that year (the requirement number is based on a percentage of the previous election cycles total vote count). 

 

They turned in all of their signatures on Aug 3, 2009 and that number totaled over 11,000 signatures (7,100 valid). 

 

They are definitely VERY behind from where they were in 2009. This is good news for us- It is definitely still possible for them to get the signatures in time, but it shows significantly less excitement towards this ballot measure than towards Issue 9.

<b>Official count as of today July 28, 2011:</b>

 

<b>Streetcar Valid Petition signatures:</b>

3622

 

<b>Required:</b>

~7500

 

Where'd you find that?  They aren't even halfway there yet.  If this count is correct, it means Non Stop Smitherman guest appearances on 700wlw

And they have until Aug 9 or 10th?

 

Is it just me, or does it seem like they won't have enough...

Rule of thumb: get twice the petition signatures you actually need because many cannot be read nor verified as registered voters within the City of Cincinnati.

 

If they have half of the minimum required signatures with less than two weeks to go, I'd say the odds are very much against them.

<b>Official count as of today July 28, 2011:</b>

 

<b>Streetcar Valid Petition signatures:</b>

3622

 

<b>Required:</b>

~7500

 

Where'd you find that?  They aren't even halfway there yet.  If this count is correct, it means Non Stop Smitherman guest appearances on 700wlw

 

I updated my previous comment with more info-

 

It's actually public info to know where any ballot measure is at any moment.  You can go to the Board of Elections to find out- I got it in an email with a break down of Smitherman's other ballot measures. 

 

Ban on Police Merger at 2833

Ban on Trash Fee & Mayoral Recall are both at about 3500

 

Remember, Smitherman says he has MANY more turned in but that the BoE hasn't gotten to them yet.  Either way, he's still significantly farther behind than he usually is.

BTW- It's not two weeks.  They have until September 9 - 60 days before the election.

 

Like I said, they still could very well get there, but they are way behind where Smitherman's petition signatures usually are.