August 1, 201113 yr By the way, on another page it was pointed out I somehow left off Charlie Winburns ~$150,000. Meaning 4 out of 5 of the highest fundraisers oppose the streetcar and the remaining one can't vote for it. It's INCREDIBLY rare for someone who raises a lot of money to lose in Cincinnati. If everyone who reads and comments on this page gave $15 or $25 to a pro-streetcar candidate We could easily raise $1000 for candidates who support the streetcar. Remember, Council is 4 for, 4 against, 1 who must abstain. This means if one pro-streetcar candidate loses a seat (Most likely to be Wendell Young [has lost 2 previous times, was appointed]) The streetcar could potentially be stopped in November. The ones who have raised the most money are the ones that need it to have any chance. Most incumbents are basically shoe-ins, Roxanne Qualls for instance could raise $5.00 and still win. At most there are 2 seats that are going to change, but I wouldn’t worry too much about streetcar support changing. If anything, a democrat is the biggest threat. The party representation numbers probably aren’t going to change, but PG could take an incumbent Democrats seat and cause a support vote to be lost. It’d be trouble if he took Young’s or Quinlivan’s seat.
August 1, 201113 yr Author Latest anti-streetcar effort a detour for all light rail By: Judge Mark Painter http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110731/EDIT02/107310352/Guest-column-Latest-anti-streetcar-effort-detour-all-light-rail?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s
August 1, 201113 yr Can someone let me know a few areas of ROW that the city already owns? In particular, the railroad bridge over 71 just north of Broadway commons. I need this information for a Letter to the Editor that I'm writing.
August 1, 201113 yr Author Easiest thing to do is use CAGIS: http://cagisonline.hamilton-co.org/cagisonline/index.html Zoom in to where you want, switch to the 'property' view, then open the property report (the button that looks like a house) to see the owner.
August 1, 201113 yr By the way, on another page it was pointed out I somehow left off Charlie Winburns ~$150,000. Meaning 4 out of 5 of the highest fundraisers oppose the streetcar and the remaining one can't vote for it. It's INCREDIBLY rare for someone who raises a lot of money to lose in Cincinnati. If everyone who reads and comments on this page gave $15 or $25 to a pro-streetcar candidate We could easily raise $1000 for candidates who support the streetcar. Remember, Council is 4 for, 4 against, 1 who must abstain. This means if one pro-streetcar candidate loses a seat (Most likely to be Wendell Young [has lost 2 previous times, was appointed]) The streetcar could potentially be stopped in November. The ones who have raised the most money are the ones that need it to have any chance. Most incumbents are basically shoe-ins, Roxanne Qualls for instance could raise $5.00 and still win. At most there are 2 seats that are going to change, but I wouldn’t worry too much about streetcar support changing. If anything, a democrat is the biggest threat. The party representation numbers probably aren’t going to change, but PG could take an incumbent Democrats seat and cause a support vote to be lost. It’d be trouble if he took Young’s or Quinlivan’s seat. Safe Seats: Qualls Thomas Ghiz Bortz Winburn Quinlivan Competitive Seats: Young Lippert Murray If Murray and Lippert win and Young is replaced with PG you can potentially say bye to the streetcar. And following fundraising numbers, those could be the winners. Seelbach is about $6,000 behind Murray and then it's about $30,000 until the next pro-streetcar candidate.
August 1, 201113 yr ^ not if it's a contract that hasn't yet been approved (as we are currently waiting on). That has nothing to do with the mayor.
August 2, 201113 yr ^ not if it's a contract that hasn't yet been approved (as we are currently waiting on). That has nothing to do with the mayor. Are they really going to vote on every contract related to the project? My understanding is that the council authorizes a project and then gives the city manager etc. the power to actually enter into things. Could be wrong, though--although it seems awfully inefficient for City Council to vote on every possible contract that comes up.
August 2, 201113 yr ^ I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure there is one last vote before there is no way council could possibly stop this. John would know more. John, is there one last vote to release funds, authorize, etc. anything?? Or is the issue 100% out of council's hands now to where any change in the make up of council would have no effect on the streetcar?
August 2, 201113 yr The city manager now has all the legal authority he needs to build the streetcar.
August 2, 201113 yr The city manager now has all the legal authority he needs to build the streetcar. So what's he waiting for? I wish there was an undated timeline on the streetcar blog that showed where the project has been, where it is now and where it's going.
August 2, 201113 yr It seems awfully inefficient for City Council to vote on every possible contract that comes up. The City of Cincinnati doesn't have a reputation for being efficient. How many politicians does it take to change a lightbulb? :? Two. One to change it and one to change it back. :-D
August 2, 201113 yr The only way the streetcar can be stopped now is if COAST's ridiculous ballot measure passes or if the FTA/Feds pull funding or don't give us the go ahead with the rest of the project (which is unlikely given how highly regarded the project is in Washington). Its out of council's hands now for sure. I suppose the only way council could become a problem is if we had a majority anti-streetcar bunch elected and someone was to introduce a measure to cease all progress on the project. However, by that time (if Coast loses) the streetcar will be under construction most likely and that would be a very stupid move by any council member to do.
August 3, 201113 yr ^ And such a move would be subject to veto by the mayor. They'd need a veto-proof majority to make something like that stick. By the way, COAST's shenanigans are starting to attract some national attention: When you live in a state where the governor uses the phrase “train cult,” transit victories are hard-fought. That has been particularly so for the Cincinnati streetcar. In the decade-plus this project has been moving toward construction, it has seen more assassination attempts and intrigue than the literary heroes of ancient Greece.
August 3, 201113 yr BTW- The confusion over the deadline has gotten nuts. Here is the Enquirer's explanation: Confusion over deadline: Even as the NAACP's Christopher Smitherman mounts a stepped-up ballot measure signature drive, there is widespread confusion over the petitions' deadline. Smitherman said county elections officials initially had told him he had until late August to submit petitions. Others argue the deadline is Aug. 10. And the truth, most now agree, seems to be somewhere in between. Under the Ohio Constitution, state law and city ordinances, if circulators gather a sufficient number of signatures, Cincinnati City Council must act by Sept. 9 - 60 days before the election - to place the streetcar issue and possibly others on the Nov. 8 ballot. Mod Edit: Added link as a precaution against media lawyers. Read full article above.
August 3, 201113 yr While the small first segment no longer needs any approval of Council, any future additions, such as the $9 million extension to the banks, may require council votes. We still need a Pro-streetcar majority on council.
August 3, 201113 yr While the small first segment no longer needs any approval of Council, any future additions, such as the $9 million extension to the banks, may require council votes. We still need a Pro-streetcar majority on council. Yes, of course. So what's Dohoney waiting for?
August 3, 201113 yr No need to worry about it.It won't be on the ballot unless they come up with 2000 more signatures by the 10th. Even after the big signing event over the weekend they still couldn't get enough. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110802/NEWS0108/108030332 I'm not sure the count of 5,227 (of 7,468 needed) includes their blitz from last weekend... Either way, it's going to be close. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
August 3, 201113 yr If COAST-types want to require ID for voting, why not for signing a petition? What is to stop one person from signing for their whole family? At least at the voting booth there are independent observers monitoring the act of voting. BOE officials can only retroactively look at signatures, while the act of signing is overseen by the wolf guarding the henhouse.
August 3, 201113 yr Horstman's article read a little like a plea. "They don't have enough signatures, so go sign!" lol
August 3, 201113 yr And Ohio is a cult. It's a pathetic remnant of what it once was in a rapidly improving world that increasingly views us as stale white bread, if they view us at all. I've traveled the world. Every time I come back I feel like I've just walked into Stephen King's "Children of the corn." I had a freind (who relocated to San Franscisco) who said living in Dayton you get the feeling that Beatlemania is just about to hit. Someone who chooses to live in the city in the Midwest has to constantly defend their decision to the suburban culture... I think this varies around the state. Despite this anti-streetcar thing I think Cincnnaitians are more supportive of their city and there are substantial middle class areas still within city limits and that are desirable places to live.
August 3, 201113 yr Horstman's article read a little like a plea. "They don't have enough signatures, so go sign!" lol I'm sure it will be on the ballot and when the signatures are approved it will be an "early victory for anti-streetcar activists" who "have the momentum with them"
August 3, 201113 yr Author http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-23837-anti-streetcar-measure-is-a-trojan-horse.html
August 3, 201113 yr From that other city with the big "German" heritage... Milwaukee Streetcar Approval Comes with Spending Limits.... ...looks like they have had a big controversy, too, but it was resolved in favor of the streetcar project. Interestingly, the current governor opposed it when he was in county government (he apparently has a big anti-rail track record)., but hasn't said too much now that he's the guv... Why is Walker mum on Streetcar? Interesting is that activists in Milwaukee turned the transit issue into a civil rights issue, and got a favorable decision that allowed the funds to go to their streetcar proposal. Not sure if there are any lessons for Cincy in the Milwaukee experience....
August 3, 201113 yr "Challenge to ALL Cincinnati Police and Fire Unions! by Mary Kuhl on Monday, August 1, 2011 at 11:39am I'd like to challenge ALL CPD and CFD to help us get those last 1000 signatures!! While I know of you folks do not live in the city however you can still collect signatures no matter where you live! We must crush this damn thing and this is a call for everyone to help. I know its hot, everyone busy but if some of the members of both of these unions actually did bit of " door to door" it would help greatly. Please consider helping with this as we have helped work to save your jobs over the last several budget cycles." Lets hope the elections committee is thorough in checking the legitimacy of these signatures.
August 3, 201113 yr I thought petition circulators have to be Cincinnati residents? “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
August 3, 201113 yr ^ Nope. This year the started accepting any Ohio residents. Could potentially be challenged by a lawsuit since Charter still says Cincinnatian, but they've been allowing anyone to circulate all year for any kind of petitions. Basically, they were bringing City rules in line with county rules.
August 3, 201113 yr ^ Nope. This year the started accepting any Ohio residents. Could potentially be challenged by a lawsuit since Charter still says Cincinnatian, but they've been allowing anyone to circulate all year for any kind of petitions. Basically, they were bringing City rules in line with county rules. How is this legal? Allowing people who don't live in the city deciding on city issues? So they can collect signatures from Cleveland if they wanted to?
August 3, 201113 yr ^Referring to those collecting, not signing. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
August 4, 201113 yr ^ It's still strange! It de-localizes the issues. It means some big group could bring in a bunch of paid canvassers to come into your neighborhood from who knows where and sign people up. I think they will get it, but the fact that they are struggling so badly really shows that they do NOT have nearly as much momentum as they did last year. As I've said before, they were 100% certified today, August 3 2009 and had 5,000 (a little less than what they have today) on July 15, 2009. Hopefully CfP is still raising money and getting ready to beat this thing.
August 4, 201113 yr If they are having such a tough time collecting sigs does it mean poor organization or lack of support (or apathy towards) the anti-streetcar cause?
August 4, 201113 yr If they are having such a tough time collecting sigs does it mean poor organization or lack of support (or apathy towards) the anti-streetcar cause? It means they are going to blitz nursing homes and bars again for sigs
August 4, 201113 yr If they are having such a tough time collecting sigs does it mean poor organization or lack of support (or apathy towards) the anti-streetcar cause? It might just be burn out. These guys have been at it for one thing or another for some years now & then you add in the statewide initiatives - people might just be tired of signing their names. That so many of the people pushing these initiatives are misleading in their presentation has probably had a chilling effect, too.
August 4, 201113 yr I think a lot of people are wondering why they are asking people to vote on this project again. It's tougher to bring an issue back up once it's already been voted on, even if the vote is coming from a different angle. Also I think people were more receptive to having a vote on rail projects with Issue 9 but are less receptive to an outright 10 year ban on them. In other words, Issue 9 was faux democracy, whereas this issue is just really bad policy. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
August 4, 201113 yr Or did any of you think that maybe Smitherman has been XXXXX'd to stop his petition? Has a deal been cut? Has he just peen paid?
August 4, 201113 yr I don't think so because he still has people out there. The appetite for people to vote again on this issue is a lot smaller. In the last press release, he blamed the weather but I don't think that's a factor. I think the membership of these organizations do not have the drive they once had or may be distracted by other issues like SB5 which is a more pressing issue for public employee unions. Speculation aside, there's six days left. Anything can happen and CFP is definitely prepared for this thing to head to a vote. As much as any supporter would hope this thing never makes the ballot, it's best to prepared for that scenario. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
August 4, 201113 yr I'm not worried this time around at all. Even if this thing makes the ballot I think it will be easily crushed on election day. The momentum of positive things going on downtown and in OTR is growing it seems almost exponentially. Since I moved to OTR just over 3 years ago the neighborhood has exploded with growth and new residents. When we campaigned against Issue 9 there still wasn't as much going on around here as there is now. We have way more support this time around then we did then and people all over the city are starting to feel more comfortable with the idea of investing in downtown and otr. Additionally, I think the number of blogs and general support all over the internet (via twitter and facebook) is way bigger now then it was last time. I think it will be a lot easier to get A TON of people on board with us to defeat this with all the additional support online now. I kind of hope the issue does make it on the ballot just so we get a chance to laugh at smitherman and finney yet again when they get humiliated at the polls:)
August 4, 201113 yr Good points jacksparrow, but some people interpret it as a sign that OTR and downtown are doing just fine now and thus don't need the streetcar to help it along. Of course, there is development that's going on precisely because they expect the streetcar to happen, and it's unlikely anything is going to happen north of Liberty without it, but still. I just wouldn't get complacent about it. After all, as bad as Issue 9 was, it wasn't defeated by THAT much. As long as we at least maintain the same level of discourse as before, then it should be ok. It would be great to see someone from the "other side" like Bill Cunningham speak out against this ballot issue like he did for Issue 9.
August 4, 201113 yr Does the Beacon have a position this time around? Not that they have any influence on anyone -- I'm just curious.
August 4, 201113 yr Cincinnati Beacon: Oops they did it again is the NAACP anti-public transit? "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
August 5, 201113 yr Saw a lady in front of the Court House this morning in a Smitherman for Council t-shirt trying to get sigs. If I wasn't on my way to work, I would have hung around to see if she got anyone to sign, but while walking past, no one was even paying her any attention.
August 5, 201113 yr From the mouth of Chris Smitherman: "If it was about light rail, we'd (NAACP) be backing it" "You have my word, we will get the signatures" "We're watching the blogs" Signatures: "2000 shy as he sits there" "Turned in 475 yesterday" "Running at a 75% validity rate" Several target locations this weekend: Little Flower in Mt. Airy (Friday night) St Theresa in Price Hill (all weekend) St Al's in Sayler park (all weekend) Ferguseon Antique Mall (Price Hill shop that has petitions) Doc will be out Tuesday night w/Chris Smitherman if needed "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
August 5, 201113 yr From the mouth of Chris Smitherman: "If it was about light rail, we'd (NAACP) be backing it" "You have my word, we will get the signatures" "We're watching the blogs" Signatures: "2000 shy as he sits there" "Turned in 475 yesterday" "Running at a 75% validity rate" Several target locations this weekend: Little Flower in Mt. Airy (Friday night) St Theresa in Price Hill (all weekend) St Al's in Sayler park (all weekend) Ferguseon Antique Mall (Price Hill shop that has petitions) Doc will be out Tuesday night w/Chris Smitherman if needed Wait What!>? They're not gonna be at St. Xavier downtown or Immaculata in Mt. Adams this weekend!? I guess their putting their full stock in the west side- an area that would greatly benefit from increased revenues caused by the streetcar- The west side needs investment and more attention from the city- the city needs more revenue to invest in the west side- the streetcar brings that increased revenue.
August 5, 201113 yr From the mouth of Chris Smitherman: "If it was about light rail, we'd (NAACP) be backing it" "You have my word, we will get the signatures" "We're watching the blogs" Signatures: "2000 shy as he sits there" "Turned in 475 yesterday" "Running at a 75% validity rate" Several target locations this weekend: Little Flower in Mt. Airy (Friday night) St Theresa in Price Hill (all weekend) St Al's in Sayler park (all weekend) Ferguseon Antique Mall (Price Hill shop that has petitions) Doc will be out Tuesday night w/Chris Smitherman if needed Thank you for listening. I can't listen to that drivel anymore. 2000 signatures in 5 days seems awfully tough. Not to mention many will be not valid so they will have to get above and beyond the minimum requirement. I hope they will go over every signature.
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