I had a friend who lives in OTR come up to me last night and tell me that he's "voting against the streetcar in November because [his] economics professor at UC told them that it's bad for the local economy because it will push poor people out of the neighborhood."  I then asked him who or what would be pushing these people out.  He said, "Gentrification!"  I asked him if he knew what Gentrification is and he told me, "It's when the government forces people out of their homes."  I then explained to him how he was wrong and he told me that he was still voting against the streetcar because his professor knows more about it than me. 

 

I almost murdered someone last night.

 

Oh my god kids are getting stupider every year!

So what's the final ballot language? Can someone post the exact wording?

 

Here's a link to the language as printed on the petitions:

http://www.cincinnatiansforprogress.com/Amendment.asp

Heck I'll just post it here for anyone insterested:

 

A M E N D M E N T

(Streetcar Spending)

 

TITLE: AN AMENDMENT TO THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF CINCINNATI TO PREVENT SPENDING TO BUILD AND OPERATE A STREETCAR SYSTEM THROUGH THE YEAR 2020.

 

TEXT: Be it resolved by the people of the City of Cincinnati that a new Article XVI of the Charter is hearby added as follows:

 

Section 1. The City shall not spend or appropriate any money on the design, engineering, construction or operation of a Streetcar System, or any portion thereof. Further, the City shall not incur any indebtedness or contractual obligations for the purpose of financing, designing engineering, construction or operating of a Streetcar System, or any portion thereof.

 

Section 2. This Amendment applies from the date it is certified to the Charter, and will continue in effect until December 31, 2020. This Amendment will have no force or effect after December 31, 2020.

 

Section 3. For purposes of this Amendment, (i) the term “Streetcar System” means a system of passenger vehicles operated on rails constructed primarily in existing public rights of way, (ii) the term “City” includes without limitation the City, the Manager, the Mayor, the Council, and the City’s various boards, commissions, agencies and departments and (iii) the term “money” means any money from any source whatsoever.

 

Section 4. In the event that any provision of this Article XVI is found to be unconstitutional or impermissibly in conflict with state or federal law, only such provisions found to be unconstitutional or impermissible will be stricken, and the remainder of this Article XVI will remain in full force and effect.

 

The following persons are designated as a Committee to represent the petitioners in all matters relating to the petition or its circulation.

 

Robert W. Buechner, 2475 South Rookwood Court, Cincinnati, OH 45208

Thomas E. Brinkman, Jr. 3215 Hardisty Avenue, Cinicnnati, OH 45208

Michelle Edwards, 7309 Scottwood Ave., Cincinnati, OH 45237

Mary Kuhl, 2436 Homestead Place, Cincinnati, OH 45211

Christopher Smitherman, 1000 Lenox Place, Cincinnati, OH 45229

 

From Smitherman's FB: "Look for the otherside to get real nasty because "our" team got the issue on the ballot. They will do and say anything to win. We must VOTE YES to STOP the Streetcar. Politics 101."

 

He's also saying they are about 300 sigs short.

From Smitherman's FB: "Look for the otherside to get real nasty because "our" team got the issue on the ballot. They will do and say anything to win. We must VOTE YES to STOP the Streetcar. Politics 101."

 

He's also saying they are about 300 sigs short.

 

It's already official.  It will be on the ballot

I'm ready.  The "other side" will be laughing in his face AGAIN after this election is over.

So, in 2013 will the local media remember that we've already voted on this twice?

I had a friend who lives in OTR come up to me last night and tell me that he's "voting against the streetcar in November because [his] economics professor at UC told them that it's bad for the local economy because it will push poor people out of the neighborhood."  I then asked him who or what would be pushing these people out.  He said, "Gentrification!"  I asked him if he knew what Gentrification is and he told me, "It's when the government forces people out of their homes."  I then explained to him how he was wrong and he told me that he was still voting against the streetcar because his professor knows more about it than me. 

 

I almost murdered someone last night.

 

That is ridiculous. I wonder why that person ever chose to live in OTR in the first place.... wont be a great loss when that friend moves to the burbs...

 

 

It's already official.  It will be on the ballot

Are they all valid?

 

 

 

It's already official.  It will be on the ballot

Are they all valid?

 

Many of the 10,878 signatures are/were probably invalid but  the Cincinnati.com front page headline and 700wlw push helped them collect enough to get the required signatures.  Now it is all about politics and PR. 

 

With SB5 on the ballot this november, it can create a potential problem with the fire/police vote.    For some reason, many are die hard against the streetcar thinking essentially "The money for the streetcar will cost us our jobs" - which we all know is complete BS but thats what COAST is pushing via twitter and email to everyone right now. 

 

I'm also hearing unconfirmed rumors that Chris Smitherman has stepped down temporarily from his position at the NAACP.  If true(which I'm not 100% sure it is) I assume thats to focus solely on killing the streetcar (unless he was nudged out). Either way, it means he'll be out and about in the local media even more than he already has been.

 

EDIT: Smitherman has stepped down and will probably run for council.  Forgot about that option

I had a friend who lives in OTR come up to me last night and tell me that he's "voting against the streetcar in November because [his] economics professor at UC told them that it's bad for the local economy because it will push poor people out of the neighborhood."  I then asked him who or what would be pushing these people out.  He said, "Gentrification!"  I asked him if he knew what Gentrification is and he told me, "It's when the government forces people out of their homes."  I then explained to him how he was wrong and he told me that he was still voting against the streetcar because his professor knows more about it than me. 

 

 

That's so sad and pathetic. How do you push people out of vacant, dilapidated, unlivable buildings?

Voters Will Decide On Streetcar ... Again

Opponents Want To Kill Funding For Project Through 2020

 

CINCINNATI -- Opponents of a proposed streetcar line have generated enough valid signatures to put the issue on the ballot again, elections officials said.

 

The ballot measure, if approved, would effectively kill any attempt to build or operate a streetcar line until 2020.

 

A petition drive netted 10,878 signatures, and elections officials said Tuesday night that 7,657 of the signatures are valid. That's a few signatures above the threshold to put the measure on the ballot.

 

Cont

 

While at the same time WCPO is reporting this on their homepage:

 

More anti-streetcar referendum petitions delivered Wednesday

Posted: 8:24 AM

 

CINCINNATI - The controversy over the proposed streetcar line for downtown Cincinnati will heat up again on Wednesday when opponents are due to deliver petitions with 3,000 more signatures calling for a second referendum on the streetcar.

 

The Cincinnati NAACP and the anti-tax group, COAST, have already delivered referendum petitions with 6,000 signatures to the Hamilton County Board of Elections office. The additional petitions may help the groups collect enough valid voter signatures before the deadline to put the referendum issue on the November ballot.

 

Cont

 

 

Nothing on WKRC...

This poll is so unscientific it is sad.  (What else do I expect from the hacks at WLWT?)  But here goes at 8:50am

 

An initiative to stop funding for the streetcar is closer to going before voters. Would you vote to stop funding?  Again I always laugh at the people who aren't sure but bother to vote.

 

Yes 570 34%

No 1,105 65%

Not sure 18 1%

NAACP’s Smitherman to step down – temporarily

 

Should have resigned after he tried to start a fight inside Council Chambers...

CINCINNATI -- Opponents of a proposed streetcar line have generated enough valid signatures to put the issue on the ballot again, elections officials said.

 

They need to be validated.

 

Back in the late 1980s when the right tried to force a referendum on gay rights in Sacramento, it was found that while they did get enough signatures they didnt get enough valid ones and the referendum didnt make the ballot.  The gay rights activists volunteered to help the BOE or whoever was vefying the sigs work on checking them, and they ended up disqualifying a bunch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

CINCINNATI -- Opponents of a proposed streetcar line have generated enough valid signatures to put the issue on the ballot again, elections officials said.

 

They need to be validated.

 

Back in the late 1980s when the right tried to force a referendum on gay rights in Sacramento, it was found that while they did get enough signatures they didnt get enough valid ones and the referendum didnt make the ballot.  The gay rights activists volunteered to help the BOE or whoever was vefying the sigs work on checking them, and they ended up disqualifying a bunch.

 

Considering its Chris Smitherman and COAST we are talking about, I would feel more comfortable if all of these signatures were at least double checked by independent personnel with experience and/or streetcar supporters

 

EDIT: They were only over by just shy of 400 signatures.  We should request the count be re-checked...

Its funny that if you read through the comments on Smitherman's wall posts on FB there's a bunch of people who comment something along the lines of "great job! I wish I lived in the city so I could vote."  Something tells me that they don't really mean that. 

 

Anyway, it would be nice if they would do a very thorough validation of all of those signatures.  I doubt we'll get that though. 

 

Its time to start campaigning against this ridiculous measure.  Hopefully we'll be hearing from CFP soon.  Everyone on this board needs to volunteer for going door to door when the time comes.  Do it at least once.  I really believe it makes a HUGE difference.  We are all capable of talking sense into people in an educated, professional manner.  My wife and I did it last time and it really wasn't very difficult.  Most people were very friendly and open to hearing what we had to say.  There were only a few people who didn't want to hear anything about it and another few who just acted like they didn't have time to talk.  Everyone else, however, listened to what we had to say and seemed quite supportive of our cause once we talked.

If you want to see a streetcar running in Cincinnati, you need to email  cincinnatiansforprogress@gmail​.com and ask how to help.

This poll is so unscientific it is sad.  (What else do I expect from the hacks at WLWT?)  But here goes at 8:50am

 

An initiative to stop funding for the streetcar is closer to going before voters. Would you vote to stop funding?  Again I always laugh at the people who aren't sure but bother to vote.

 

Yes 570 34%

No 1,105 65%

Not sure 18 1%

 

No, but it's a great way to increase the number of web hits so a media outlet can tout those numbers to advertisers.

 

And for rail advocates, it is also a way to influence momentum.

On the Cincinnati Streetcar page on Facebook, some people are going nutty over 20-minute off-peak headways -- perhaps rightfully so.  But as mentioned in the thread if you plan a little, this doesn't have to be an issue. 

 

I bring this up because there are tools available for an enterprising Java developer to make a plug-in for an already-existing Android app that basically presents a transit rider with a list of nearby transit stops along with up-to-date departure times for buses, trams, regional trains, or whatever serves the stops. 

 

Does anyone know if the local transit agencies already publish live departure data?  Who here might have the kind of skills (I do not unfortunately) to write a plugin for this piece of software called Öffi? 

 

Main Öffi page: http://oeffi.schildbach.de/

Developer page: http://code.google.com/p/public-transport-enabler/

 

 

I'm pretty certain that the Cincinnati Streetcar will have electonic notifications of the next three streetcars' predicted arrival times and that this information will be available on your phone.

There was a YP Candidate Forum at the University Club last night.  Great event actually-- Simpson & Seelbach came across as strongest. 

 

Also PG went on record saying he no longer supports the streetcar.  With a very very long wordy answer that explained he's against it because it's shorter and not the original.  Simpson then responded that you have to start somewhere and it will eventually be the full route, and Seelbach followed up that the money has been designated & all federal funds would have to be returned and can't help the budget.

There was a YP Candidate Forum at the University Club last night.  Great event actually-- Simpson & Seelbach came across as strongest. 

 

Also PG went on record saying he no longer supports the streetcar.  With a very very long wordy answer that explained he's against it because it's shorter and not the original.  Simpson then responded that you have to start somewhere and it will eventually be the full route, and Seelbach followed up that the money has been designated & all federal funds would have to be returned and can't help the budget.

 

Well, that interesting. Sittenfeld told me on December 15th that he didn't support the streetcar. However, the Governor didn't withdraw the $52 million -- thereby causing the original route to be shortened -- until this spring.

 

Always good to get your stories straight because, you know, people do talk.

How did he get a democratic endorsement while not supporting the streetcar??

How did he get a democratic endorsement while not supporting the streetcar??

 

Probably his great potential to raise $$$$$$$

There was a YP Candidate Forum at the University Club last night.  Great event actually-- Simpson & Seelbach came across as strongest. 

 

Also PG went on record saying he no longer supports the streetcar.  With a very very long wordy answer that explained he's against it because it's shorter and not the original.  Simpson then responded that you have to start somewhere and it will eventually be the full route, and Seelbach followed up that the money has been designated & all federal funds would have to be returned and can't help the budget.

 

Well, that's interesting. Sittenfeld told me on December 15th that he didn't support the streetcar. However, the Governor didn't withdraw the $52 million -- thereby causing the original route to be shortened -- until this spring.

 

Always good to get your stories straight because, you know, people do talk.

The enquirer is already trying to create havoc about the city putting up the signs tomorrow.  Figures.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/08/15/city-to-put-up-streetcar-station-signs-tuesday/

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it tomorrow morning. The joys of being an hourly employee...

Over the past few months I've been looking at all comments on enquirer streetcar stories. Usually the pro-streetcar folks get the positive marks and the anti's get negatives but in these past two stories about the streetcar signs (yes, there's a blog and a story) the anti's are getting tons of positive marks (likes). I'm not usually a conspiracy minded guy but it seems a little fishy.

@ Flyboy  I noticed that too.  Not sure what's going on there. 

 

Regarding the signs, I walked past the unveiling on my way into work and the sign looks better than I'd expected.  Tom Luken was there giving lip to the press again.  He really needs to be admitted...he doesn't make ANY sense at all when he speaks.  The word of the day is "White Elephant."

 

If anyone complains about the cost of these signs, I can guarantee that I've paid more for printing off and undergraduate project than these things cost.  They're not lavish...simply informative.

And Lippert attempts to counter today's sign unveiling...

 

Councilman: Halt streetcar work immediately

 

 

Official Release:

 

Councilman Wayne Lippert is calling on the city to respect the democratic process and halt all streetcar activity until after the November election.

 

“I don’t care what side you are on in this debate,” said Lippert. “To move forward with this project in the face of a legally organized and certified ballot initiative shows the arrogance of the administration.”

 

In a memo from Lippert to the city solicitor seeking to clarify the administration’s position, Lippert said,

 

“Based on statewide precedent, it is my understanding that ballot initiatives supersede all legislative actions. This was indeed the standard used in the LetOhioVote—Video Lottery Terminals initiative and Senate Bill 5.

 

“The standard of ceasing all streetcar activities should be upheld until after the November election. If we do not, I believe we risk opening the city to serious legal action. I am calling upon you to help me understand why this administration is ignoring the democratic process and moving forward.”

 

As you know, there is a ballot initiative seeking to bring an end to the streetcar project. At the same time, there is not a majority on council that supports moving forward on this project.

 

Cincinnati's petty politics..

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20110814/NEWS0108/108150310/

 

Wonder if Pendergast realizes that Kennedy is taking shots at her and her colleagues at Gannett.

 

Wondering how many more years the seekers of knowledge have to hang onto the rim of the toilet bowl as the leviathan that is transit swirls vigorously like a public stall.

Looking at some of the pictures of the signage, it's ridiculous that anyone would complain about this being "taxpayer waste." It doesn't necessarily look cheap, but it certainly doesn't look like they cost a lot of money to produce.

Looking at some of the pictures of the signage, it's ridiculous that anyone would complain about this being "taxpayer waste." It doesn't necessarily look cheap, but it certainly doesn't look like they cost a lot of money to produce.

 

Its COAST.  They complain about everything

WKRC poll (hope the link works):

 

http://www.local12.com/default.aspx

Even if the signs and the labor to install them had been donated to the city for free, COAST would still be screaming bloody murder. Although the fiscal angle is a convenient way for them to claim some mantle of credibility, they couldn't care less about the money. It's purely a culture war for them.

WKRC poll (hope the link works):

 

http://www.local12.com/default.aspx

 

Voted.  Naturally they leave out the fact it will ban all rail and not just the streetcar

WKRC poll (hope the link works):

http://www.local12.com/default.aspx

They are running this thru FaceBook as well. What's interesting thee is that you can see who is voting. The anti-streetcar voters are overwhelmingly female.

Seems odd as the streetcar certainly has advantages over the bus when herding kids & shoving around baby carriages.

I just looked at a few pages. Of the people who stated where they live, it was about 60% Cincinnati.

And Lippert attempts to counter today's sign unveiling...

 

Councilman: Halt streetcar work immediately

 

 

Official Release:

 

Councilman Wayne Lippert is calling on the city to respect the democratic process and halt all streetcar activity until after the November election.

 

“I don’t care what side you are on in this debate,” said Lippert. “To move forward with this project in the face of a legally organized and certified ballot initiative shows the arrogance of the administration.”

 

In a memo from Lippert to the city solicitor seeking to clarify the administration’s position, Lippert said,

 

“Based on statewide precedent, it is my understanding that ballot initiatives supersede all legislative actions. This was indeed the standard used in the LetOhioVote—Video Lottery Terminals initiative and Senate Bill 5.

 

“The standard of ceasing all streetcar activities should be upheld until after the November election. If we do not, I believe we risk opening the city to serious legal action. I am calling upon you to help me understand why this administration is ignoring the democratic process and moving forward.”

 

As you know, there is a ballot initiative seeking to bring an end to the streetcar project. At the same time, there is not a majority on council that supports moving forward on this project.

 

 

Under Lippert's interpretation of precedent, one could paralyze government ad-infinitum just by circulating petitions.

 

PS: If you are reading this, Wayne Lippert, please take me off of your damn e-mail newsletter.

Even if the signs and the labor to install them had been donated to the city for free, COAST would still be screaming bloody murder. Although the fiscal angle is a convenient way for them to claim some mantle of credibility, they couldn't care less about the money. It's purely a culture war for them.

 

Exactly.  And leave it to B. H. and the Enquirer to make sure everyone hears their stupidity loud and clear while making sure they hardly mention any ounce of sane, reasonable thought regarding this project.  Even though I've been following this project now for at least the last 4 years it never ceases to amaze me how persistant our own local newspaper is in constantly trying to destroy a project that's designed to improve our city and help us get out of yearly deficits.  Its like people here enjoy seeing the city struggle.  Unbelievable. 

 

I still think we have a darn good chance at absolutely destroying them at the polls, but I have to say, if for some reason this ballot measure actually passes I will have no choice but to look into relocating.  I just can't stay in a city that has that sort of ridiculous language in its constitution.  We'll be seen as an absolute joke to the rest of the country.  Not only that, but who would want to invest money in this city when we're gauranteed to have no choice in transportation other than automobiles for the next generation?  Its absolutely crazy to stop and think about that.  I really can't even believe we have to deal with something this insane!!!

Check out the pics. Only one partial shot of the huge crowd there today, but ... wait for it ... just a second, now ... yes, two pics of Tom Luken.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110816/NEWS01/108170317

I still think we have a darn good chance at absolutely destroying them at the polls, but I have to say, if for some reason this ballot measure actually passes I will have no choice but to look into relocating.  I just can't stay in a city that has that sort of ridiculous language in its constitution.  We'll be seen as an absolute joke to the rest of the country.  Not only that, but who would want to invest money in this city when we're gauranteed to have no choice in transportation other than automobiles for the next generation?  Its absolutely crazy to stop and think about that.  I really can't even believe we have to deal with something this insane!!!

 

I totally agree, and I'm in the same boat. In 2013 I'll be finishing up my M.Arch. degree at UC and looking for a real job. I'm already on the fence as to whether or not I'll stay in Cincinnati -- it will largely depend on where I can find fulfilling employment -- but if this ballot initiative passes, it's a pretty safe bet that I'll end up moving to greener pastures. My areas of specialty primarily involve transportation design and transit-oriented urban design. It would be pretty foolish to live and practice in the one city in America that has deliberately chosen to keep itself in the dark ages on such matters. It would be like a heart surgeon living in a city where the doctors are mandated by law to only use leeches and bloodletting.

The city did wait until after the public spoke in a referendum -- two years ago. Now these ballot issues are becoming a harrassment, and no one should stand for that.

Sorry to be repetitive but please vote in this poll.  And tell your friends.  Granted, it's not scientific but it is symbolic.  You'll have to scroll down to the bottom left side of the page to find it:

 

http://www.local12.com/default.aspx

 

 

The city did wait until after the public spoke in a referendum -- two years ago. Now these ballot issues are becoming a harrassment, and no one should stand for that.

 

Isn't there some kind of legal precedent that states you can't keep bringing up the same petition in a certain amount of time?  Anyone can get 7500 on any issue.  If they lose this one, whats to stop them from getting signatures again? 

Sorry to be repetitive but please vote in this poll.  And tell your friends.  Granted, it's not scientific but it is symbolic.  You'll have to scroll down to the bottom left side of the page to find it:

 

http://www.local12.com/default.aspx

 

Or call 513.345.1212

I had no idea Albert Smitherman, Chris Smitherman's brother works for or partially owns Jostin Concrete Construction Company.  Jostin Concrete is a development partner of....The Cincinnati Streetcar.

 

This article explains it pretty well

 

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/06/smitherman-shakedown-explained.html

 

 

Here's another:

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/06/open-letter-to-mayor-mallory-city.html

 

I realize these are from the first ballot initiative but what is the exact reasoning for Chris Smitherman being against the Streetcar?  We know its not fiscal responsibility...Can anyone shed light into this?  Is he proposing this amendment purposefully to fail? 

 

 

 

 

This is no longer relevant. The Feds made the City break up the for Development Partners group and put everything out for competitive bidding in a formal procurement process. Josten is a great contractor but they have no lock on this project.