Discussion on the Cincy Enquirer is here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3762.0.html

^ Thank you!!

 

Has there been a posting on this page about the Cincinnatians for Progress fundraiser Thursday night?  I don't remember all the details.

 

Today from 5:30 to 7:30 at the Blue Wisp downtown!

Last night, Cincinnati's clownish streetcar opponents applied bullet-hole decals to all the streetcar stops in OTR. The decals have now been photographed and removed. There may be some in the CBD. If you find any, they peel off very easily. Feel free to do so. And if you see anyone doing this, get a pic.

 

They will probably do this again. This could be a good story for the blogs, illustrating streetcar opponents' willingness to vandalize and impose more costs on our city. And their juvenile eagerness to trash neighborhoods trying to make a comeback.

I'm convinced that these people high-five each other whenever there's a news report of a shooting in downtown or OTR.

Between stunts like this and some of their tweets as well as the asinine language of the amendment, one could really turn voters away from these clowns.

 

^Betcha won't see THIS story in tomorrow's paper, heh heh!

From Chris Smitherman on Facebook:

 

The Streetcar issue will be on the ballot in November. How many of you know that the Mayor and Cincinnati City Council write the language for the ballot? It will be their goal to confuse voters. I do not make the rules but would like you to have the facts. The language for the November ballot will be written in the next two weeks. YOU MUST VOTE YES TO STOP THE STREETCAR. The otherside is counting on citizens not understanding. Education is the key. Politics 101.

What a bunch of morons!  That's the only way to explain how anyone could believe a single word that comes out of that mans mouth.  He wrote the amendment and now he's trying to convince people it was the mayor?

Yeah... when I read that, I could feel my blood pressure rising. I held back from responding lest he block me, and then I wouldn't be able to follow his moronic status updates and the comments that follow.

From Chris Smitherman on Facebook:

 

The Streetcar issue will be on the ballot in November. How many of you know that the Mayor and Cincinnati City Council write the language for the ballot? It will be their goal to confuse voters. I do not make the rules but would like you to have the facts. The language for the November ballot will be written in the next two weeks. YOU MUST VOTE YES TO STOP THE STREETCAR. The otherside is counting on citizens not understanding. Education is the key. Politics 101.

 

basically, their questions is, do you want to ban all passenger rail construction in the city limits for the next generation?  YES stops the streetcar, no means it continues. 

 

I've seen lots of conservative COASTers/westsiders on FB posting about how horrible it is that the "Mallory Mafia" has made it a No vote to keep building the streetcar.  I really don't get their problem.  Look at the amendment- it's asking voters to ban.  Yes to ban, no to not ban. Really simple.

 

In other news-  Are they going to start construction before the election! And I mean just utility work, moving manholes, etc.  Have things gone out to bid? anything??? I feel like we've gone silent.

From Chris Smitherman on Facebook:

 

The Streetcar issue will be on the ballot in November. How many of you know that the Mayor and Cincinnati City Council write the language for the ballot? It will be their goal to confuse voters. I do not make the rules but would like you to have the facts. The language for the November ballot will be written in the next two weeks. YOU MUST VOTE YES TO STOP THE STREETCAR. The otherside is counting on citizens not understanding. Education is the key. Politics 101.

 

 

 

In other news-  ARE THEY EVER GOING TO START CONSTRUCTION! And I mean just utility work, moving manholes, etc.  Have things gone out to bid? anything??? I feel like we've gone silent.

 

Therein lies the problem...Should emotional loudmouths override logic and an anti-rail amendment passes, I can't help but think of all the missed opportunities for construction.  I realize jumping through the federal hoops takes awhile, but good grief.

>Yes to ban, no to not ban. Really simple.

 

All local ballot issues must follow Ohio's Form of Ballot rules.  They have been in place as they exist now for 100 years.

Yeah, what is going on?

 

Is there a timeline anywhere?

What happens if they do spend money on the streetcar if the ban is set?

 

 

If the ban were to pass, there would be court cases. Unless in some off chance there are no contracts in place by that time, which is hard to imagine. Even in that case, litigation is all but certain.

And if litigation is certain, Finney is certain to get paid.  Hmm, now I see why he's involved in this!

Our very own Hamilton County Auditor called a City Beat author a "Resident Marxist" via twitter for this article:

 

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/article-24009-streetcars-help-fuel-job-growth-in-seattle.html

 

This is the mentality we are dealing with.  Emotions are high this election with SB5 and other issues and, as we know, logic does not always prevail. 

 

So far we've had:

 

- The Enquirer release hit pieces and cheerlead to get the issue on the ballot

 

-we've had 700wlw give unlimited guest spots to Smitherman and Mary Kuhl in addition to their bashing

 

-we've had COAST tweeting everyday that the local brownouts are because of the streetcar and that police are getting cut because they need a streetcar

 

-We've had COAST members caught under multiple screen names on Cincinnati.com, fox19, wkrc, wlwt, and other sites railing against all forms of rail

 

-We've had COAST members caught putting up bullet hole stickers on streetcar signs

 

-We've had 700wlw put up promotional anti-rail flyers on streetcar signs

 

-We've had Chris Smitherman claim that the Mayor and city council wrote their own ballot initiative

 

-We've had Chris Smitherman and his friends throw entire papers of City Beat in the trash

 

-We've had Chris Smitherman and his friends accost homeless people for signatures on initiatives

 

-We've had claims that this streetcar line will cost anywhere from $2billion - $195 million

 

-We've had COAST members on twitter make jokes and laugh about people being shot in OTR

 

-We've had Bill Cunningham say the operating expense would be $18 million annually

 

-We've had The Enquirer intentionally neglect to mention the actual wording of the proposed amendment

 

-We've had our own Hamilton County Auditor call a local reporter a 'Resident Marxist' because he dared mention that Seatlle's line is exceeding expectations.

 

This is just a fraction of what they've done.  We are dealing with an inordinate amount of misinformation coming from all angles including big local media. 

I'm moving out of the region in 9 months, and haven't been in the urban planning profession now for 3 years.

 

However, it's things like those listed above that fuels most of my emotional disconnect from Cincinnati more than anything in my own circumstances.

^Hope you stay connected to UO.

I think the larger point here is that these are the desperate actions of fearful thugs who will go to almost any length to defend their interests as they perceive them, as misguided as they are. We have to push back just as hard. Bullies only respond to power. We have to be smart about building our coalition, but we can't hold back. We really do have to crush their arguments, tactics and 'facts' decisively. Our victory must be a fatal blow to such thuggery. This is an opportunity to build a lasting progressive coalition in cincinnati. Remember, most of those in opposition to streetcars are not legal resident of cincinnati. Their tactics are an attempt to overcome this enormous disadvantage. Since they can't win legitimately, they attempt to undermine their opposition through divide and conquer techniques. These FOX/tea party tactics also make a point about the fearfulness of suburban interests as they realize they are particularly vulnerable to many economic and political changes today. As they see that the political and financial logic behind suburban expansion is over and can't image another way forward, they lash out at convenient targets.  Many opponent of the streetcar really are that scared, angry and  desperate. We have no reason to hold back and every reason to create a new politics for cincinnati based on the already great work many in cincinnati politics and business have done. Our opponents aren't  even cincinnatians while we live, shop and socialize with our supporters everyday. This will be easy if we all play our part. Let's get going!

Nice post - I hate to ask because I know it has been discussed, but is there an easy way to make a cash donation?  I was hoping to make it to the 8/25 event but could not.

I think the larger point here is that these are the desperate actions of fearful thugs who will go to almost any length to defend their interests as they perceive them, as misguided as they are. We have to push back just as hard. Bullies only respond to power. We have to be smart about building our coalition, but we can't hold back. We really do have to crush their arguments, tactics and 'facts' decisively. Our victory must be a fatal blow to such thuggery. This is an opportunity to build a lasting progressive coalition in cincinnati. Remember, most of those in opposition to streetcars are not legal resident of cincinnati. Their tactics are an attempt to overcome this enormous disadvantage. Since they can't win legitimately, they attempt to undermine their opposition through divide and conquer techniques. These FOX/tea party tactics also make a point about the fearfulness of suburban interests as they realize they are particularly vulnerable to many economic and political changes today. As they see that the political and financial logic behind suburban expansion is over and can't image another way forward, they lash out at convenient targets.  Many opponent of the streetcar really are that scared, angry and  desperate. We have no reason to hold back and every reason to create a new politics for cincinnati based on the already great work many in cincinnati politics and business have done. Our opponents aren't  even cincinnatians while we live, shop and socialize with our supporters everyday. This will be easy if we all play our part. Let's get going!

 

I really do wish this movement the best.

Politics Extra

Local Dems like levies, streetcar

10:30 pm, Aug 31, 2011 | Written by scoolidge

 

 

Hamilton County Democrats support the streetcar and think levies for Cincinnati Public Schools, medical care for the poor and to take care of the county’s most vulnerable children are a good idea, according to votes out of a Wednesday night meeting.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/08/31/local-dems-like-levies-streetcar/

Nice post - I hate to ask because I know it has been discussed, but is there an easy way to make a cash donation?  I was hoping to make it to the 8/25 event but could not.

 

https://secure.pledgeconnect.com/donation.aspx?cincinnatiansforprogress

New month, same ol Enquirer:

 

 

Play the streetcar word association game

 

What's the first word that pops into your head when you hear the word 'streetcar?'

 

A proposal to bring a streetcar to Cincinnati has generated a lot of rhetoric. We want to cut through that with a word association game.

I went with "Revival." Anyone here have some good ones? It seems a given that "boondoggle" will be the #1 answer in the end.

I cancelled my Sunday subscription... but some words to use:

 

Jobs

Growth

Progress

Redevelopment

Urbanism

Development

 

I saw a lot of "progress" so I would go with that.

Jobs & Progress are leading the pack

Did they say how long they're gonna let this go on before they reveal their "word cloud?"

Did they say how long they're gonna let this go on before they reveal their "word cloud?"

 

This is the Enquirer, child. They made the word cloud before they even posted the article. COAST sent it to them last week.

LMAO!  This is absurd.  The Enquirer is such a joke.

Hey, it's working. It's getting people to visit their website. Then they can show to advertisers how popular they are.

 

The streetcar is obviosly a very popular subject, as shown by the letters to the editor and comments.

 

I think that the Enquirer is rooting for the underdog, so to say, so that they can drag this story out as long as possible. 

No, I don't think it's a very popular subject.  In the four years since this all started, I've overheard people talking about this in public or at work maybe twice. 

The Enquirer must think it's a popular story, since they have written so much about it.

 

Do you think that the Enquirer is doing it for laughs, kind of like the way Sarah Palin gets so much coverage for saying dumb things?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/01/paved-streets-or-streetcar-is-there-a-link/

 

Wow... This is silly...

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/01/paved-streets-or-streetcar-is-there-a-link/

 

Wow... This is silly...

 

LOL. I'm totally going to work for the Enquirer, and all my articles are going to be like this:

 

Is Santa Real?

 

ENQUIRER

September 1, 2011

 

CINCINNATI - Leslie Ghiz thinks Santa might be real. We asked her about it, and she said she wasn't sure. "I was just wondering," said Ghiz in a phone interview this morning. Mark Mallory was unavailable for comment.

 

Copyright 2011 The Enquirer

Eighth, it's obvious that COAST, etc., are feeding stories to The Enquirer.  How else do you explain Mark Miller being the very first respondent to this latest non-story?

 

Again, please tell me how often you've heard random people discussing this project out in public.  Zero for me, and at most 3 times I've heard people talking about it at work in the last 4 years, and no conversation lasted more than a minute.  Mostly people talk about their kids. 

 

Expect this story to be front page in tomorrow or Sunday's print edition. Story about Santa Claus will be below the fold.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be riding some boondoggles on my trip out to Europe here in a few days.

The Enquirer must think it's a popular story, since they have written so much about it.

 

Do you think that the Enquirer is doing it for laughs, kind of like the way Sarah Palin gets so much coverage for saying dumb things?

 

I think the Enquirer is doing all these stories because it has an agenda on this issue. 

Jake,

 

  I agree that most people talk about their kids, and not about government, infrastructure, or technical things. A fairly small segment of the population is interested in the streetcar. I have had a few - maybe 10 - people outside of UO ask me what I thought of the streetcar.

 

 

 

 

 

City of Cincinnati, utilities miles apart on streetcar

Premium content from Business Courier by Dan Monk and Lucy May , Senior Staff Reporters

Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 6:00am EDT - Last Modified: Friday, September 2, 2011, 9:54am EDT

 

Nine months of negotiations have failed to close a funding gap for utility relocation required by the Cincinnati streetcar project.

In fact, the gap has grown to more than $30 million.

 

As the Business Courier first reported last November, the city’s budget for the relocation of gas, electric, sewer and water lines falls far short of what’s required to separate the proposed new transit system from downtown’s subterranean infrastructure.

 

Although the budget and project scope have changed since then, the city hasn’t altered its May estimate of a $95 million “starter line” that would run from Fifth Street to Findlay Market  . The project would be funded by $99.5 million in available proceeds, including federal grants and a $64 million bond issue authorized by city council in 2010. The $95 million budget didn’t include any money for utility relocation, estimated by Duke Energy Corp. at more than $20 million.

 

Cont (premium)

jmecklenborg is right. We really can't be too cynical about COAST and the Enquirer. They will ride this horse until it is dead or they are. Such bitter and paranoid people will never see a reason to stop their destructive behavior. They will lose. It's just a matter of how much damage they cause in the mean time and how much we can use this issue to strengthen a progressive pro-Cincinnati political coalition for the longer-term.

The negotiations could take a few more months, so don't look for a "groundbreaking" until at least late Q1 2012.

 

From the article:

 

The utility budget to move water, sewer and communication infrastructure only covers $6 million of the cost according to the city. The city is looking to push the costs onto the utilities themselves, but the utilities are saying that the ratepayers will not fund the work.

 

From Duke Energy: The city must seek a written order from the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio before it will cover any relocation costs caused by the streetcar.

 

Adding to that, Greater Cincinnati Water Works said that the city owned utility cannot legally pay for any relocation costs required by the streetcar project. The total cost for GCWW is $10 million, and $3.5 million will have to be paid for by the city. The rest will be funded by the GCWW to replace 100 year old pipes that need replacing anyways.

 

From Cincinnati Bell: It will cost $3 million to relocate manholes and make other improvements, and is willing to pay for engineering and design work for that. But it is willing to "work cooperatively" with the city on construction costs, but it is speculative at this point on whether or not ratepayers will have to cough up the extra money.

 

MSD said that it would cost $6 million to replace the sewer mains and manholes to avoid streetcar interference, and that the MSD is willing to split the costs evenly with the city. But the MSD added that Hamilton County commissioners will likely be asked to approve of at least some of MSD's streetcar spending because the MSD was created by the county and has a contract with the city to manage its sewer district.

^ The few times I've brought this up as a major concern on this forum I've been shut down by people telling me I don't understand how this works.

 

Can someone people explain why this single issue wouldn't cripple the entire project??

^ The few times I've brought this up as a major concern on this forum I've been shut down by people telling me I don't understand how this works.

 

Can someone people explain why this single issue wouldn't cripple the entire project??

 

Exactly. What's the plan here?

OCtoCincy & OTR: I've expressed this multiple times, along with other concerns, and have been shot down by the very same folks. The same ones who said we'd be at groundbreaking last year, last month, this year and are now mum mainly because the city is trying to force the utilities to pay up to cover the costs of the streetcar project the city did not budget for. The city, in essence, screwed up and are pushing the ratepayers - those in the outskirts of Hamilton County, those in Northside, those in Western Hills and elsewhere to pay up for the streetcar project that runs through the central business district and Over-the-Rhine.

 

A better solution is to create a special assessment for those that live in those two neighborhoods within a specific radius of the streetcar, and levy the charges to their respective bills. I should not have to have my electric rates jacked up further, or my water bill, et. al. to pay for a project that does not benefit my property. How does improving the underground power lines in downtown improve upon my property that I am paying for? Hell, it'd be nice in Northside to go by a week without having the power go out (3 times my power has gone out in 3 weeks).

Quite simply, the streetcar proponents did not allow enough money in the streetcar budget to do the required utility work. In my opionion, this was a major mistake for the streetcar project.

 

 

Those in the outskirts of Hamilton County, those in Northside, those in Western Hills and elsewhere to pay up for the streetcar project that runs through the central business district and Over-the-Rhine.

 

A better solution is to create a special assessment for those that live in those two neighborhoods within a specific radius of the streetcar, and levy the charges to their respective bills. I should not have to have my electric rates jacked up further, or my water bill, et. al. to pay for a project that does not benefit my property.

 

Really, Sherman? I guess, then, you'd similarly feel that downtown and OTR residents shouldn't have had to pay for the massive expansion of CWW's or MSD's pipes or Duke Energy's gas and electric grid into three adjoining counties over the past few decades, some of which is destined to become stranded investment with fewer rate-paying customers going-forward.