Yeah, I still won't be voting for the guy. There's enough pro-streetcar candidates running to not require wasting a vote on PG.

PG has too many connections to the "old money" of Cincinnati for me to trust him on the streetcar.  The old money types are the ones that are most resistant to change, as the status quo obviously benefits them.  There may be one or two anti-streetcar people I'd vote for because I like their other qualifications, but PG-13 isn't one of them.

Whatever. It was implied that there a company moving along the streetcar route, but the same statement can be said about the countless businesses that move monthly to interstate highways. You force a connection to the reader that a business chose a location in downtown specifically because of the streetcar, similar to what the streetcar blog does, which is read as "businesses locate along the streetcar route because of the streetcar." In reality, they move because of tax breaks and cheaper rent - the Atrium tower is dirt cheap compared to other buildings in terms of leases.

 

I can't think of really any major business that has moved to a location along the streetcar line because of the streetcar. It's usually a side benefit after it is built.

 

Big corporations aren't going to relocate just because of a potential future streetcar line.  But tons of small businesses and residents have moved in because of the streetcar, and this has been well documented on sites like Soapbox and the CincyStreetcar Blog.

 

I would disagree. People moved to Over-the-Rhine initially because of the redevelopment efforts that went on before the streetcar was even proposed. People didn't move into OTR back before 2001 because of a streetcar proposal, and the countless businesses that flourished in the neighborhood then. Counting individual bodies and saying that everyone moved to OTR because of a proposed streetcar is silly; that is cherry picking at best and even Soapbox didn't do that. Soapbox went fairly broad based and didn't use any hit adjectives such as "tons" or "lots" because quite frankly, a lot in OTR still don't buy the streetcar proposal. Significant numbers? Sure. But it can't be quantified.

 

Of course, businesses move to a particular location because of several factors. Cost of the lease is one. So is the foot and vehicle traffic - and for many of these businesses, bus traffic is all but negligible. Availability of particular units is another. Being on the line or near the line can increase the lease, but a proposal does not necessarily increase the number of businesses on a line. It increases speculation, such as the values of properties on 12th and 13th Streets near the new Casino site. But these businesses must recognize that the proposal is still that, a proposal, and their business model should not depend on something that has not been built and still has a significant chance of not being built. That's business sense.

I just wrote a blog post on how Nashville's paper covers rail transit 180 degrees from Cincinnati's.  http://cincinnatimonocle.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-rail-transit-reporting-looks-like.html

 

This was on the front page of this past Sunday's Tennesseean:

 

and:

 

 

 

^ One nearly universal problem with commuter rail is it is usually designed only to operate at rush-hours, and few people are content to have a transportation choice only in the early-mornings and late-afternoons. They find they just can't plan their lives around it. I know that when they added mid-day service to Austin's commuter rail, ridership shot up, and it is now operating near capacity.

^ One nearly universal problem with commuter rail is it is usually designed only to operate at rush-hours, and few people are content to have a transportation choice only in the early-mornings and late-afternoons. They find they just can't plan their lives around it. I know that when they added mid-day service to Austin's commuter rail, ridership shot up, and it is now operating near capacity.

 

Not accounting for leisure travel is a huge mistake for many commuter lines.  The majority of transit patrons as well as trips taken/purchased, bus and fixed rail alike are for leisure and personal affairs.  Business travelers will always be there.

We saw Charlie Winburn in the Ridge Day parade last weekend, riding a horse. Based on his stance on rail projects, I can only assume this is his preferred method of alternative transportation. My dog started barking and my wife assumed it was at the horse, but I'm pretty sure he was barking at Charlie Winburn. Good dog.

Winburn and Sam Malone came to my house one day. At the time, I was playing Urban Strike for the SNES a lot. The main bad guy in the game was a crooked dictator named Malone and he was plotting to blow up the World Trade Center using a nuclear bomb. Of course, that game came out in '95, but it was all I could think about at the time.

Since its practically fall now and we were told to hopefully expect construction to start sometime this fall/late in the year...has anyone heard anything about this?  Will we actually start seeing some sort of ground breaking before the November election?  I personally think it would help our campaign against issue 48.

^ No groundbreaking before November election.

Since its practically fall now and we were told to hopefully expect construction to start sometime this fall/late in the year...has anyone heard anything about this?  Will we actually start seeing some sort of ground breaking before the November election?  I personally think it would help our campaign against issue 48.

 

I wouldn't expect that anything happening at this point anyway, being so close to the election, would create any significant support. The only thing construction at this point would create is piles of debris and holes in the ground. Despite that representing progress, it would likely be viewed as troublesome. Not likely to generate any support that way this close. Best to let the project succeed on it's planned merits at this point.

 

Besides, if the issue were somehow successful, it would be money ahead to NOT have dispatched people to dig holes only to have them cover them back up. I tend to be optimistic that the issue will fail, but can't be impractical either.

The best thing at this point would be the awarding of a contract to build the streetcars.  A signed contract that would cost the city millions to cancel, thus putting pressure on the Issue 48 people. 

^ Not going to happen. Nor should it.

 

City is involved in a lengthy and legally-precise procurement process that will take until the end of the year, perhaps longer. Several vehicle manufacturers are involved, and the decision-tree is complex. This is a multi-generational choice, and it needs to be right.

^ I'm not saying it should be rushed, etc. or purposefully done as a political move before the election- but if the process had led to a contract being awarded before Nov 8, that would have been wonderful. 

Its certainly amazing how long this is taking.  John's been right all along saying that this is a marathon, not a sprint!

It has taken much longer in Washington, DC, which purchased streetcars in 2006 (they've been sitting unused in a subway service yard for almost five years), began laying track in 2009, and has since had completed track paved over.  All these arguments about having the streetcars or just getting started are moot.  The core issue here is that it's way too easy for political opponents to attack these streetcar projects when they are line items in city budgets instead of being funded by their own untouchable source (like Queen City Metro's earnings tax) and administered by an untouchable committee.  That is why Cincinnati established the Rapid Transit Commission back in 1916...to handle construction of the Rapid Transit Loop (like how the park commissions administer parks) without being harassed by the peanut politics of agitators like COAST.  It was only by the extraordinary circumstances of the November 1925 election that the wheels were set in motion to disband the Rapid Transit Commission for short-term political gain and scuttle the subway project.   

Somewhat streetcar related since its the same opposition.  Its scary that these people have a legit shot in deciding Cincinnati's future for the next 20-25 years

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110929/NEWS0108/109300346/Quinlivan-pays-13-cents-settle-dispute

 

"Quinlivan pays $.13 to settle dispute.  COAST attorney's complaint cost city 'several thousand dollars' to investigate"

It has taken much longer in Washington, DC, which purchased streetcars in 2006 (they've been sitting unused in a subway service yard for almost five years), began laying track in 2009, and has since had completed track paved over.  All these arguments about having the streetcars or just getting started are moot.  The core issue here is that it's way too easy for political opponents to attack these streetcar projects when they are line items in city budgets instead of being funded by their own untouchable source (like Queen City Metro's earnings tax) and administered by an untouchable committee.  That is why Cincinnati established the Rapid Transit Commission back in 1916...to handle construction of the Rapid Transit Loop (like how the park commissions administer parks) without being harassed by the peanut politics of agitators like COAST.  It was only by the extraordinary circumstances of the November 1925 election that the wheels were set in motion to disband the Rapid Transit Commission for short-term political gain and scuttle the subway project.   

 

My counterpart in Austin has been working to bring rail there since 1971. They opened their first line two years ago. Just the way it is.

My counterpart in Austin has been working to bring rail there since 1971. They opened their first line two years ago. Just the way it is.

 

One thing cities/regions can do is present the idea in a manner that makes sense to them, and this is where Cincinnati pro-rail leadership has failed.  Not once can I recall Dohoney or anyone with a voice remark about how buses alone have not made this city more dynamic.  People can recall the past, so why not zoom in on the idea of change?  The past didn't work, let's not pout, just put your best foot forward and move on with the future of Cincinnati - the streetcar.  Mallory needed to tell the community all along that the streetcar is our future, not that it may be or it could be.  If the measure passes, I'll be wondering if a more poignant message other than the old jobs speech would have preserved sanity in Cincinnati for the next 20 years.

 

New Streetcar Video from CincinnatiStreetcar.com

^I know there's work going on at Washington Park and all, but I didn't know the view of Music Hall was open. Could this possibly be the first time that the facade could be photographed properly? Wow.

^I know there's work going on at Washington Park and all, but I didn't know the view of Music Hall was open. Could this possibly be the first time that the facade could be photographed properly? Wow.

 

Check their Flickr stream, updated every Friday.

^This is big news. Music Hall has always been a puzzle - a long, beautiful facade that could only be photographed at an angle or through trees. Often, perspective views have been intentionally set up to showcase a building; compare to Union Terminal.

 

Another view that comes to mind is McMicken Hall and TUC at the University of Cincinnati. The buildings were originally lined up on the same axis, but the view was blocked by an older building. When that older building was finally torn down and made into a lawn, TUC and McMicken Hall could be seen across the lawn from each other's front door. In my humble opinion, opening up that lawn was one of my favorited urban projects. But alas, it lasted only a short time, as they built that bus shelter thing in fron of McMicken, and wrapped TUC in that awful circular monstrosity.

 

What are the plans for Washington Park? I assume they are going to build something, and maybe plant some trees. Maybe now is the time to get the photos? Where are all the UO photographers?

 

And yes, this IS appropriate for the streetcar because the intended route is right in front of Music Hall. I personally didn't like that route, but a benefit of that route is that is allows a postcard view of Music Hall with a possible streetcar.

^ Washington Park will allow most of the facade of Music Hall to be seen on axis.  Directly across from the front of it will be a big, open event lawn with a small stage (and space for a larger, temporary stage).  That will be on top of the parking garage that is almost finished.

 

You can find plans here: http://www.3cdc.org/follow-our-projects/washingtonpark/

Early voting starts today...

 

Enquirer has reported on Issue 48 but will it change anyone's minds?  Hopefully the word is getting out.  I am more nervous going into this election than the last one because of potential turnout from SB5

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111003/NEWS0108/111080306/Issue-48-Streetcar-rail?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

 

About Cincinnati Issue 48

 

What it's about: Stopping Cincinnati from building a streetcar system through 2020.

 

What it would do: Halt rail projects in the city limits through 2020.

 

How things are now: The city is building an electric streetcar route to run a 4-mile loop through Downtown and Over-the-Rhine. Roughly $7 million of the projected $95 million-plus budget for the project has been spent on planning and engineering. City officials have said they hope to break ground this fall.

 

What happens if it passes: The city must stop building the project and legal experts say the charter amendment could also prevent subsequent rail projects inside the city limits until the amendment expires on Dec. 31, 2020.

 

What happens if it fails: The amendment is not added to the charter and the city continues to build the project.

 

Argument for: The city simply can't afford to build and operate a streetcar when a $33 million deficit looms in the 2012 budget. Also, the project won't be the catalyst for economic development touted by city officials and project supporters.

 

Argument against: The streetcar will jump start economic development by creating jobs, attracting new residents and boosting tax revenue. Some opponents are against adding this new rule to the city charter because they believe it as overly broad and puts undesired restriction on city government for nearly a decade.

 

Who's for it: Citizens Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes (COAST) and the Cincinnati chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), Baptist Ministers Alliance of Greater Cincinnati Area, the Fraternal Order of Police, the Firefighters Union.

 

Who's against it: Cincinnatians for Progress, League of Women Voters of the Cincinnati Area, Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber, Cincy PAC, Cincinnati Chapter of the American Institute of Architects, Charter Committee of Greater Cincinnati, Laborer's Union, Ohio Environmental Council.

Web sites for more information: gocoast.org, cincinnatiansforprogress.com, cincinnati-oh.gov

About Cincinnati Issue 48

Who's for it: ..., the Fraternal Order of Police, the Firefighters Union.

 

As I said before, this is why it is so hard for me to vote no on Issue 2.  Couldn't they have just made no endorsement either way?

^ I completely misread your original statement and have retracted my original comment- I thought you wrote "This is why it's so hard for me to vote No on Issue 48."  Whoops!

Elegantly biased, as usual. Here we have four declarative statements in pro vs con.  The two pro are stated as facts, see the bold. Only one of the con's is stated as fact, while the other is stated as marginalized ("some") opinion ("they believe.") This is important because ironically, the statement that they present as marginalized opinion is the only one that can ever be legally decided upon as being an indisputable fact with concrete future ramifications.

 

I think the Enquirer knows this, and have purposefully attempted to muddle and marginalize the point. It is also, arguably, the same reason the last one of these was defeated two years ago.

 

 

"Argument for: The city simply can't afford to build and operate a streetcar when a $33 million deficit looms in the 2012 budget. Also, the project won't be the catalyst for economic development touted by city officials and project supporters."

 

"Argument against: The streetcar will jump start economic development by creating jobs, attracting new residents and boosting tax revenue. Some opponents are against adding this new rule to the city charter because they believe it as overly broad and puts undesired restriction on city government for nearly a decade."

^ Really?? The opinion of the FOP & IAFF does NOT change the facts.  Yes on 48 is devastating to the City.  the FOP and IAFF have been blindly against it for over a year now.  A short sighted decision on their part.

 

They believe the COAST propaganda.  They believe that the financial woes and layoffs they are facing is directly related to the streetcar money.  They believe that the city is more interested in a streetcar than fire/police.  Its discouraging and factually incorrect, but they are sticking to it.

 

What's even more unbelievable is that they are endorsing Chris Smitherman. 

The city *can* afford to build and operate this.  Notice The Enquirer doesn't cite anything specific that will be cut in its place, because there isn't anything.  The majority of this is being paid for with a federal grant and TIF funds.  The grant can't pay for anything else, and the TIF funds can only pay for capital projects in Over-the-Rhine.  What capital project is competing for OTR TIF funds? 

 

Also, The Enquirer wrote "could" when it WILL prevent other rail projects. 

 

Look again for The Enquirer to officially opose Issue 48 in its election preview, but keep throwing turds like this.  This is exactly what they and 700 WLW did with Issue 9.   

Just a heads up on Pro/anti-streetcar politicians.

 

The Cincinnati Business Committee paid for a city-wide poll on the council race- It had Allen & Smitherman finishing 7 & 8 and Lippert 9.  Murray, Quinlivan & Wendell were all bunched at the 10 spot.  Basically, City Council could very well become 6 anti-streetcar, 3 pro-streetcar. 

 

The poll was done about 2 weeks ago- and what should be noted is you can never really count on non-inumbents (who aren't former politicians) to show up in these polls this early on since most of their media won't start until the first week of October.  BUT it does spell bad news for Murray, Quinlivan & Young who will really need to step up their game. 

 

If you haven't volunteered for or donated to a pro-streetcar candidate, now is the time!

^So Qualls, Bortz, Winburn, Ghiz, Thomas were in the top six? Who is the sixth?

^ I'm sorry! I failed at my math. Double checked with my source, the order was, roughly: 

 

6&7 were Smitherman & Allen- 8 was Lippert and Quinlivan, Murray & Young were all bunched very closely together around 9, with Laure holding a slight advantage over Amy.

 

Many of the people were VERY close together in this poll, with 5 of the incumbents higher, Smitherman and allen bunched together a bit lower, Lippert and the rest very close behind and of course, a decent sized margin of error.

 

This just gauges the general trends, and like I said, is just about two weeks old.

I am dumbfounded that Smitherman and Allen are anywhere in the top 9. Unreal.

Smitherman and allen really are a sign of how toxic local politics have become.

I am dumbfounded that Smitherman and Allen are anywhere in the top 9. Unreal.

 

Smitherman signs are EVERYWHERE! In every neighborhood.  Really scary.

Smitherman is clearly the candidate of hate and we can all understand why there are so many hateful people in cincinnati today. Still, voting for smitherman is putting gasoline on the fire, not water. Smitherman would gladly see Cincinnati destroyed in an orgy of destruction so we would all feel as bad and he clearly already does.

I'm confused about who votes for Smitherman. Blacks? Whites who are angry at the streetcar? I recall that the black wards of Cincinnati were in support of the light rail vote in 2002. Plus the Mallory family is one of the oldest and most respected black political families in Ohio. Could that many really have been hoodwinked by Smitherman?

 

One thing I do suspect is that Cincinnati is getting poorer, or at least more politically volatile, as it depopulates. Black families with means appear to be moving to the north suburbs. Whites on the west side are simply furious at the demographic shifts from central poor black neighborhoods to that side of town. The downtown basin has added a few thousand YP's, but how does that stack up to the other things going on in the city limits?

 

All in all, with the economy and depopulation of the city I wonder if it might just be too hard to rally the remaining population around positive, growth-oriented issues like the streetcar.

^ Well, that's a cheery thought for the day.

 

Given the countless hours of effort that some have put into getting a streetcar to almost come to Cincinnati, over an amazing time span, overcoming major roadblocks, to get to the cusp of actually doing it, well... saying that it is "too difficult" is probably an understatement.

 

I am continually amazed and appreciative that there are many people in this community who just don't give up on ideas they know are great.  For me, about all I do is get into the occasional helpful argument now and then, and write a check or two.  Which, by the way, is an easy way to help with a difficult job.

Well, to an extent, Cincinnati has continued to depopulate and is a trend that is not letting up. Even more sobering is that Hamilton County has pretty much reached its peak population and will start declining in numbers and vitality as development spreads further out. And now comes the designation that Cincinnati is one of the poorest cities in the United States, with much of that remaining concentrated in pockets in Over-the-Rhine, Price Hill, and now in some of the inner suburbs within Cincinnati. The addition of a thousand or so residents to downtown and Over-the-Rhine has helped but has not offset the balance.

 

What surprises me more than who votes for Smitherman, is his chances. He's run a fairly aggressive campaign so far, but what has he raised in funds so far?

^ He has really high name recognition. He's in the paper all the time, on the radio, and heads a major political organization. He doesn't need to raise a lot of money.

 

BTW, Sherman, Google Chrome is telling me your site (shermancahal.com) has Malware.

^Thanks. Wordpress had a vulnerability with their last update that allowed access into the .htaccess file - which resulted in any error page (404) redirecting to porn. I corrected it but have to wait for Google to reindex the site..

>depopulate

 

People having fewer or zero kids, or people actually moving out and not being replaced by a body?  Much more of the former than the latter, here and everywhere else.  Oral contraceptives + legalized abortion happened within 10 years of each other, and every single city in the Unites States saw their population decline start precisely at that time. 

Many streetcar opponents are FORMER cincinnatians, more are leaving everyday. Support for streetcars among current cincinnati registered voters is growing over time, not declining.

>depopulate

 

People having fewer or zero kids, or people actually moving out and not being replaced by a body?  Much more of the former than the latter, here and everywhere else.  Oral contraceptives + legalized abortion happened within 10 years of each other, and every single city in the Unites States saw their population decline start precisely at that time. 

 

I´d much rather have those forms of population control than an exploding birth rate with parents who shouldn´t have kids at all.  Lazy parents are a drag on society.  It seems that while downtown has seen momentum lately, surrounding core areas have been declining in population.  Avondale, Fairmount, East Price Hill and Walnut Hills all come to mind.  Most of that magnificent architecture of Walnut Hills is either sitting vacant, awaiting a wrecking ball, or both.  A streetcar system is the only fighting chance for Avondale and Walnut Hills, areas Smitherman claims he serves.  Can Cincinnati start importing politicians just to avoid our local brand of toxicity?

Well, to an extent, Cincinnati has continued to depopulate and is a trend that is not letting up. Even more sobering is that Hamilton County has pretty much reached its peak population and will start declining in numbers and vitality as development spreads further out. And now comes the designation that Cincinnati is one of the poorest cities in the United States, with much of that remaining concentrated in pockets in Over-the-Rhine, Price Hill, and now in some of the inner suburbs within Cincinnati. The addition of a thousand or so residents to downtown and Over-the-Rhine has helped but has not offset the balance.

 

What surprises me more than who votes for Smitherman, is his chances. He's run a fairly aggressive campaign so far, but what has he raised in funds so far?

 

I beleive Hamilton County has been in decline since 1970 or 1980

^ He has really high name recognition. He's in the paper all the time, on the radio, and heads a major political organization. He doesn't need to raise a lot of money.

 

The ninja is right-  He hasn't raised a lot of money at all- but he doesn't need it. He has the media on his side giving him free media constantly.  He has amazing name recognition and he's made his 2 campaign issues "no streetcar, no police cuts" and he's winning on that.  He will place in the top 3 in the black community, 13 or 14 on the east side, and then it all comes down to westside moderates and conservatives.  Will they fall for it?? 

 

Other than opposing the streetcar, his platform includes taxing all stock options within in the city of Cincinnati (a tax against the rich in his mind), banning the city from imposing a garbage fee like the vast majority of american cities have (a tax against the poor in his mind) and not cutting anything!! His plan is insane, but enough people hear "i will stop the streetcar" and they love it.

 

If the mayor had any sense of the climate against 48 and the streetcar he would be giving speeches building support for the streetcar or AT LEAST giving big speeches building support for Issue 48. Think Obama Healthcare/jobs plan speeches- big exciting, rally the base- make a few key points and get noticed!

1. Smitherman's base is conservative black voters based largely in Avondale, Bond Hill, maybe Evanston. This guy was president of the NAACP for years so he has enough support somewhere in the city to make a decent showing. Just because someone is black doesn't mean they're automatically liberal democrats. As it stands, the same people that got Winburn into office can get Smitherman into office and that's pretty scary.

 

2. It's almost a month before the election. Anything can happen and I bet the margin of error on that poll was pretty high. Also it'd be nice to know the sample size of the poll and if it was conducted by mail or phone.

 

3. If you're against Issue 48 and relying on pro-labor dems to show up to vote against the Issue 2, you have to realize the there will be a push on the right to pass Issue 3 so basically there could be a wash with larger turn out on both sides. What you can do is donate or volunteer to CFP and talk to someone that doesn't tweet, facebook or surf this forum about the consequences of Issue 48.

I just got an email from someone I have great respect for that recently spoke with PG Stittenfeld on his streetcar stance.  Apparently, PG "...DOES indeed support the Streetcar and is against Issue 48 !! Furthermore, he's recently been on TV news and interviewed in the Enquirer and has unequivocally remained consistently in support of the Streetcar."  Either he's changed his tune, or more likely he's playing both sides to get elected.  Any thoughts?