Um- No.  Not true. 

 

"The city's focus right now needs to be on basic services ahead of streetcars, but the reality is, this project is now in the hands of the voters, and I will respect the direction they give us in November." - Enquirer.

 

"“The city's focus right now needs to be on basic services ahead of streetcars but the reality is, this project is now in the hands of the voters, and I will respect the direction they give us in November. I plan to vote 'no' on Issue 48 because tying the city's hands for such a long duration and denying citizens the chance to revisit critical issues and changing circumstances when it comes to transportation or any other city function is bad governance that I cannot support.”" - CityBeat

 

He's trying to have his cake and eat it too.  He's telling pro-streetcar people I'm for it, and anti-streetcar people now is not the time.

 

DO NOT be tricked.  Non-incumbent candidates like Seelbach, Simpson, Riveiro, Flynn, Hollan etc. have  been crystal clear. Sittenfeld's wishy-washy stance is enough to turn me off.

 

bfwissel, please tell that person you greatly respect that they are being fooled.

Hamilton County peaked in 1970 with 924,018. It is at 802,000 for the 2010 census and dropping - mostly attributed to the declining Cincinnati base. As for population, there is a correlation (sadly) that the higher the income level, the fewer kids the family has. The greatest number of kids is still those with low incomes in general. It's not uncommon - in at least what we studied and observed in the coal fields, to find a family of six to eight living in a trailer with a single parent or with two, with incomes below $20,000 that live almost entirely on subsidies - food stamps, SSI, disability.

 

I am not for sure on the specifics on Cincinnati, although there is really detailed data with the 2000 and 2010 population sets, that you can easily find trends on family sizes, incomes and population. I would not be surprised if it was the same.

 

"Many streetcar opponents are FORMER cincinnatians, more are leaving everyday. Support for streetcars among current cincinnati registered voters is growing over time, not declining."

 

I'm not in doubt about that, but it's hard to quantify that, nor provide supportive data. It's easy to say there are more streetcar supporters today than ten years ago when such a proposal didn't exist, but I wonder what it was like back in the 1940s when the system was being discontinued.

^When Cincinnati's historical streetcars were being discontinued, the idea was that motorcoaches would be used as a temporary public service until everyone eventually had a car and a house in the suburbs. Riders invariably preferred the streetcars over buses, though.

 

The decline in public transit ridership in Cincinnati mimics the decline in population and jobs in addition to the switch to automobiles. Today, Queen City Metro carries about 10% of the ridership that the streetcars did in 1920.

Here's what the Enquirer had to say about Issue 48 today.  You know, if they really feel this way, why don't they stop publishing so much crap from Smitherman and Finney to prevent them from getting these stupid issues on the ballot in the first place?  (the passage below is NOT the enquirer's official endorsement according to the article)

 

Issue 48 (Cincinnati)

Rail transportation

 

This is déjà vu from 2009, when anti-streetcar Issue 9 sought to handcuff city officials from doing any development work whatsoever connected to rail systems. Issue 48 isn't written quite the same way, but we view it dimly for the same reasons we opposed Issue 9.

 

That measure was deceptively and confusingly drafted, was too broad in its intent, and posed a danger to representative democracy by pushing us further down the path of "government by referendum," lessening the effectiveness of officials we elect.

 

Issue 48 could affect not just the streetcar but spending or action on other rail-related projects - including the Eastern Corridor project or even privately funded projects. It ties the hands of elected officials in working toward the overall economic development of our area.

 

As in 2009, our opposition is independent of whether or not we support the streetcar per se. We're not even going to address the merits of the streetcar of other rail projects at this point. That would play into the hands of those who wish to make this a debate about the streetcar instead of one about governance, which is the real issue here.

 

 

That's exactly what I predicted would happen.  That's a one-off and you won't see that explanation given again in the weeks approaching the election. 

 

They will defend themselves, saying they didn't endorse Issue 48.  But they know damn well that things need to be repeated before they enter the public consciousness.  That's why people pay for huge ad campaigns that repeat the same message at every commercial break. 

^ I'm sorry! I failed at my math. Double checked with my source, the order was, roughly: 

 

6&7 were Smitherman & Allen- 8 was Lippert and Quinlivan, Murray & Young were all bunched very closely together around 9, with Laure holding a slight advantage over Amy.

 

Many of the people were VERY close together in this poll, with 5 of the incumbents higher, Smitherman and allen bunched together a bit lower, Lippert and the rest very close behind and of course, a decent sized margin of error.

 

This just gauges the general trends, and like I said, is just about two weeks old.

 

Given the fact that this poll was taken prior to candidate television advertising going up, it essentially reflects none of the work put into any of the campaigns by any of the new candidates.  I don't think it provides any valuable information.

Toledo is jumping in!

 

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=cincinnati&sParam=37650973.story

 

Toledo area transit agency to study monorails

TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) — The transit authority in Ohio's fourth largest city is studying monorail systems, to satisfy a suburban critic of the agency.

 

Sylvania Township trustee Kevin Haddad says a monorail through the Toledo area would revitalize the community. The Blade newspaper reports (http://bit.ly/o3DrSd ) that Haddad is proposing a 25-mile system that he says would be clean, fast, and comfortable — and an improvement over what he describes as the "big, empty buses" now serving Toledo suburbs.

I would post that at the TARTA thread, as silly as it is.

It is interesting to note that two former NAACP leaders are against Issue 48. 

 

Dr. Milton Hinton and Judge Nathaniel R. Jones

 

So what is the exact reasoning behind Chris Smitherman's opposition?  Pride?  Ego? City Council campaign? Revenge? Power?  All of the above?

All of the above.

OCtoCincy is right. Smitherman is clearly driven by some intense personal demons. He is a sociopath who will do anything to keep people's attention and defend his incredibly fragile ego. His pact with COAST is a pact of the sociopaths. That they get any attention at all is a sign of the distance between many political interests in cincinnati. They are a coalition of the failed who can't stand to have evidence of success around them. They would gladly see cincinnati fail so that it reflects their own failure than see evidence of success around them that would contrast with their own failures. Smitherman is a personification of the Detroit-style race and class obsessed horrors that await cincinnati if it doesn't up its game politically and economically.

It is an attempt to acquire power. Some can acquire power by promoting unity and raising up all of those around them. Others can acquire it and raise themselves up by causing divisiveness and lowering those around them. Smitherman seems to be from the latter camp.

I don't Tweet, but I ran across this recently.

http://twitter.com/#!/GOCOAST

Talk about a disturbed and obsessive personality.....

I don't Tweet, but I ran across this recently.

http://twitter.com/#!/GOCOAST

Talk about a disturbed and obsessive personality.....

 

Yes, Mark Miller runs that account.  Its a series of weird tweets.  They come at me every once in awhile

 

Anyways, today is the deadline for Novembers election to register to vote!

^ Last day to register: Board of Elections open until 9:00p tonight. Must bring photo ID and proof of current address.

 

Hamilton County Board of Elections, 824 Broadway, 2nd floor. Free and abundant parking after 5:00p.

The anti-Issue 48 press event at City Hall today drew out dozens of supporters and had some fantastic speakers who spoke to the dangers of banning all passenger rail in Cincinnati for nearly a decade.  The best comment made by a speaker was based on the quote often attributed to Mark Twain to the effect of "if I knew the world was coming to an end, I would go to Cincinnati because everything happens ten years later in Cincinnati."  He noted that this issue would put into our charter just that.  Too true, too true.

Great event- great mix of people.  Regarding politicians, all current democratic council members were there, and non-incumbents included Chris Seelbach & Kevin Flynn.

Commissioners: No sewer money for streetcar

 

No sewer money can be used for the streetcar project.

 

That was the unanimous decision of Hamilton County’s three commissioners today, voting on a resolution proposed by Commissioner Chris Monzel.

 

The city of Cincinnati wanted county sewer users to pay half the $6 million cost to move sewers to make way for the proposed streetcar, saying the sewer lines are old and needed to be replaced anyway.

 

“Hamilton County ratepayers should not be put on the hook for the Cincinnati streetcar project,” Monzel said. “They should not pay for the streetcar every time they flush the toilet or use their water.

 

Cont

Fine, leave them there.  When MSD needs to service the sewers they'll have to work around the streetcar schedule.  Most utility service downtown is done at night and/or weekends, anyway just from a feasability standpoint.

^ Just curious- How does that work if there is a manhole in the middle of the streetcar track.  Honest question-

So I guess MSD customers shouldn't have to "pay for the roads every time they flush their toilet."

 

This project is becoming less likely every month, even if Issue 48 goes down. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

So I guess MSD customers shouldn't have to "pay for the roads every time they flush their toilet."

 

This project is becoming less likely every month, even if Issue 48 goes down. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

 

“The streetcar project is moving forward this is not something that will stop the project,” Eilerman said.

 

via updated article: Commissioners: No sewer money for streetcar

 

It will be interesting to see what the project manager works out with the other utilities.

 

Love that quote from the person in Madeira about taxation without representation. I would be tickled to tell her how many infrastructure projects her MSD bill chips into that she had never heard of. Sounds like someone has been a little affected by the Tea Party.

Quote from the article above: “I’m against the streetcar, but nobody has ever asked me,” Barbara Holwadel, 53, of Madeira, told commissioners. “I never have gotten to vote on it, doesn’t look I will get to.

 

“So as far as I am concerned, if they start trying to go after money through my MSD bill that is taxation without representation.”

 

 

That last line makes me want to give up hope that Cincinnati will ever amount to anything more than a collection of moronic suburbs.  That woman, and likely many like her, are COMPLETELY CLUELESS! 

Oh well, in this situation they think they are saving themselves money by voting this down when in reality it will cost them more money in the end when those pipes have to be replaced in the future anyway (which we all know will be a more expensive endeavor at that time because they will have to work around streetcar lines without interrupting service)

I encourage everyone on here to send letters to the editor of the enquirer explaining how stupid it was for the commissioners to refuse to work with the city in replacing those lines now instead of later.  Maybe if enough of us write, they'll actually publish one. 

...how stupid it was for the commissioners to refuse to work with the city in replacing those lines now instead of later...

 

Consider the possibility that the county commissioners authorize the sewer work but the streetcar never gets built. Headline: MSD wastes $6 million on failed project.

...how stupid it was for the commissioners to refuse to work with the city in replacing those lines now instead of later...

 

Consider the possibility that the county commissioners authorize the sewer work but the streetcar never gets built. Headline: MSD wastes $6 million on failed project.

 

The city's not going to execute construction on a project like that without finishing it. I can't think of a scenario where that would happen, now that they have waited until after election day.

>That last line makes me want to give up hope that Cincinnati will ever amount to anything more than a collection of moronic suburbs.

 

Again, it's The Enquirer giving a voice to factually inaccurate sentiments while never calling these people out on what they actually are.  Refer back to that article I posted from Nashville -- did they publish any of these kinds of quotes?  NO.  They published the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. 

 

 

^ I also like how the only quote from a regular citizen is someone from Madeira, who lives outside the city limits.  That's why she hasn't voted on it.  Those of us who actually do live in Cincinnati will have voted twice come November.

...how stupid it was for the commissioners to refuse to work with the city in replacing those lines now instead of later...

 

Consider the possibility that the county commissioners authorize the sewer work but the streetcar never gets built. Headline: MSD wastes $6 million on failed project.

 

Of course 8th and state makes a statement like this. This is money spent on a sewer project that is going to HAVE to be upgraded in the next few years anyway!

 

It has to, by federal mandate, be upgraded before 2018.

Make no mistake: The Board of County Commissioners voted to double the cost of their federally-mandated sewer upgrades just to spite the streetcar project. And in so doing, they ironically reduced the budget of the streetcar construction itself and lost any say over streetcar-related sewer manhole relocations. Welcome to "fiscal responsibility" as practiced by teabag-waving COASTers like Chris Monzel.

The sad thing is, your paragraph really is too complicated for these people to understand.  They will get upset and tune out before you finish the second sentence. 

 

Meanwhile, look at how the City was villified over the Diana Frey thing but Deters and the Commissioners are somehow at no fault with this recent scandal at Jobs & Family Services.

The sad thing is, your paragraph really is too complicated for these people to understand.  They will get upset and tune out before you finish the second sentence. 

 

That's when they hit you with...

 

Make no mistake: The Board of County Commissioners voted to double the cost of their federally-mandated sewer upgrades just to spite the streetcar project. And in so doing, they ironically reduced the budget of the streetcar construction itself and lost any say over streetcar-related sewer manhole relocations. Welcome to "fiscal responsibility" as practiced by teabag-waving COASTers like Chris Monzel.

 

Well said!!

Make no mistake: The Board of County Commissioners voted to double the cost of their federally-mandated sewer upgrades just to spite the streetcar project.

 

Huh?  :| 

 

Of course 8th and state makes a statement like this. This is money spent on a sewer project that is going to HAVE to be upgraded in the next few years anyway! It has to, by federal mandate, be upgraded before 2018.

 

I think you are mistaken. There is no federal mandate to upgrade the sewers in downtown or Over-the-Rhine before 2018. (If you think there is, please show me.)

 

 

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/13/issue-48-watch-and-chat/

 

Online video chat with Carl Weiser, Tom Luken & Rob Richardson 10/17

Who pays if there is a water main break below the streetcar line? The MSD don't have a problem repairing breaks and major intersections. They better not cry if something happens along the streetcar line.

Anyone know where I can pick up one of those snazzy "No on Issue 48" yard signs?  I'd like to get it in the ground soon so as many eyeballs as possible see it.

Email [email protected]

 

 

Anyone know where I can pick up one of those snazzy "No on Issue 48" yard signs?  I'd like to get it in the ground soon so as many eyeballs as possible see it.

 

Park + Vine at 12th and Main downtown

www.parkandvine.com/

Who pays if there is a water main break below the streetcar line? The MSD don't have a problem repairing breaks and major intersections. They better not cry if something happens along the streetcar line.

 

I think a Water main break would be CWW, not MSD.  But I get your concept and I can't wait to see their reaction the first time they have to do it all themselves- especially when they had the opportunity to upgrade the whole system for 50% off (paid for by the Streetcar budget).

^ It would be the utility provider, which is why I suspect this may come back to bite Chris Monzel in the butt. He's young enough that he could still be in office somewhere when this happens. I hope people remember.

 

Sometimes they will put empty sleeves under the slab for future power or water branches, but nothing large enough to re-route a sewer. They would also likely install sleeves for future service at large building sites.

Anyone know where I can pick up one of those snazzy "No on Issue 48" yard signs?  I'd like to get it in the ground soon so as many eyeballs as possible see it.

 

Park + Vine at 12th and Main downtown

www.parkandvine.com/

 

Thanks!  Got it this afternoon and will plant it in my yard after work.

Who pays if there is a water main break below the streetcar line? The MSD don't have a problem repairing breaks and major intersections. They better not cry if something happens along the streetcar line.

 

Just about everyone will pay at least something. If a water main breaks below the streetcar tracks, the track foundations will probably be damaged. Even if CWW foots the bill for repairs, the streetcar operators and riders will pay in the form of track inspections and safety checks, reduced service, cost of shutting down and restarting, etc.

 

In an ideal world, the best design is to not build the tracks over a water main. With all due respect to the advantages of streetcars, working around utility problems, fires or other emergencies, or any other event that could affect the route is not simple or easy. By contrast, buses simply detour around the block until the event is over.

In other words, we should never build anything, because it's hard and something bad might happen.

Haha....that's the line of thinking I was reading too. 

We have incredibly active imaginations in this country -- so obsessed with what could happen.

^No, I didn't say that.

 

It is my opinion that the streetcar supporters made a major error with regard to utilities. The feasibility study (from 2007, I think) studied a couple of alternative routes, and picked a preferred alternative, without any real idea what utilities were in the street. Then, they came up with a cost estimate that included an amount for utility relocation that was way too low. Next, there was pressure to reduce the utility budget to save on total project costs, and finally, lacking funds to do the proper utility work, the project managers suggested that all of the utility companies - Duke, Cincinnati Water Works, MSD, Cincinnati Bell, Sprint, etc.,  -foot the bill with their own funds. Two of those utilities, CWW and MSD, happen to be publicly owned, but that doesn't change the fact that there wasn't enough money in the proposed budget to relocate the utilities. CWW and MSD didn't budget for the streetcar.

 

In short, the streetcar supporters didn't allow for proper utility work.

 

This doesn't mean that since it's difficult, it should not happen. What it means is that to improve the chances of success, the proponents should allow for the utility work, which means they need to get a good idea of what it will cost, and budget accordingly. If they can't come up with the money, then they should find more money, or scale back the project, or even cancel it and propose a different project that is more affordable.

 

^No, I didn't say that.

 

It is my opinion that the streetcar supporters made a major error with regard to utilities. The feasibility study (from 2007, I think) studied a couple of alternative routes, and picked a preferred alternative, without any real idea what utilities were in the street. Then, they came up with a cost estimate that included an amount for utility relocation that was way too low. Next, there was pressure to reduce the utility budget to save on total project costs, and finally, lacking funds to do the proper utility work, the project managers suggested that all of the utility companies - Duke, Cincinnati Water Works, MSD, Cincinnati Bell, Sprint, etc.,  -foot the bill with their own funds. Two of those utilities, CWW and MSD, happen to be publicly owned, but that doesn't change the fact that there wasn't enough money in the proposed budget to relocate the utilities. CWW and MSD didn't budget for the streetcar.

 

In short, the streetcar supporters didn't allow for proper utility work.

 

This doesn't mean that since it's difficult, it should not happen. What it means is that to improve the chances of success, the proponents should allow for the utility work, which means they need to get a good idea of what it will cost, and budget accordingly. If they can't come up with the money, then they should find more money, or scale back the project, or even cancel it and propose a different project that is more affordable.

 

 

Uhhhh really?? So please, enlighten us. What major street in downtown has NO sewer, water mains, utility, etc.   

 

Your posts are becoming more and more ridiculous.