The gold line is a HUGE reason why Issue 48 would be horrendous.  So many of the Yes on 48 people say "we're not against light rail".  But The gold line, undoubtedly a light rail line, spends several miles on city streets "existing public right of way" and would be ILLEGAL under Issue 48.

Chris Smitherman now blatantly lying to get votes.  From his FB wall:

 

"‎550 AM had a great debate on the Streetcar this AM. The host was Brian. If you get a chance listen to the POD cast. I can not call the show because I am a candidate for Cincinnati City Council. However, Attorney Chris Finney called and did a great job! Remember Issue 48 DOES not STOP light rail but it does force City Council to ask the citizens permission before spending $144 Million. City Council does not want to ask the people permission. VOTE YES on 48 to STOP the Streetcar. Politics 101."

Screenshots of the above mentioned FB post. He accuses me of lying.

 

http://yfrog.com/z/j220ozj

http://yfrog.com/nwdhspoj

 

Edit: I can't get the pics to embed... grrr...

I heard it live.  Finney's comments were the usual, but the disgusting part is the continued celebration of anti-intellectualism by Brian Thomas.  The callers yet again -- we're in the fifth years of this now -- called in suggesting trolley-replica buses as if they themselves came up with the idea, with Thomas cheering them on.

 

But it's more sinister than that, because at least two callers sounded like plants.  One lied about "the" gas tax, when in fact there are two (how many streetcar opponents know that there are separate state and federal gas taxes, or how much each is, or when either were last raised).  Specifcially, the caller asserted that if the gas tax wasn't paying in part for public transportation, it would not have to be bailed out from the general fund.  That portion of "the" gas tax is from the federal tax, not the state, and it primarily pays for ADA compliance and special services like Metro's ACCESS.  Even rural counties get this money.  It DOES NOT subsidize regular route service by public transit agencies.  That ended in 1982 with a stroke of Ronald Regan's pen.

 

In other news, Cunningham went on at length today about his support for labor unions, because despite being a conservative talk radio host, he is actaully a Democrat.  He and his wife worked for labor unions, he ran for office as a democrat, yet he claims on his show to be a conservative.

 

In yet other news, Tom Luken has a letter to the editor today where he attempts to place himself as a major figure in the Civil Rights movement. 

In other news, Cunningham went on at length today about his support for labor unions, because despite being a conservative talk radio host, he is actaully a Democrat.  He and his wife worked for labor unions, he ran for office as a democrat, yet he claims on his show to be a conservative.

 

That's because there's no money in being a Democrat on the radio. People who spend a lot of time in the car don't want to listen to CDs because they are too short and remind them that the car is taking up a ton of their time. "Just getting to work and I'm already at Track 13?" The radio keeps going no matter what.

Got the note below from Cincinnatians for Progress, which group has taken more than a few shots from this page of UrbanOhio during this and the 2009 campaign. But with a couple of exceptions, I'm unaware that anyone who often posts here has been helping in the campaign much, either in the form of contributing or volunteering. Most everyone here seems content simply to act as armchair observers and commenters.

 

Want to have rail here soon? Or not for a long time?

 

So do your part and pitch-in over the next ten days. Then it's over, one way or another.

 

[CFP email follows]

 

All,

 

We are at critical mass in terms of "Get Out The Vote" efforts and need your help.

 

Wednesday and Thursday we are conducting phone banking from 5:30-7:30 pm at our Main St (1420 Main St. 45202) office.

 

Canvassing is also important to motivate our base and get the facts out to voters that may be undecided!! We will meet at CSC offices (2135 Dana Ave, 45207...Suite 240) this Saturday & Sunday from 11 am - 3 pm to distribute lists and coordinate these efforts.

 

Please contact me to confirm the time you are able to assist with spreading the "Hate on 48." Harsh but necessary language!!!

 

Warm regards,

 

Jenell N. Hubbard

Cincinnatians For Progress

[email protected]

(m) 513.203.9092

 

In the first screen shot Smitherman is trying to convince people that issue 48 is the same as issue 9 was (only asking for a vote, not banning).  Ridiculous.

Then, the guy below in the comments blamed the city for the confusing language even though Smitherman and Finney wrote it.  Its so hard to win these "debates" when you are debating against total retards.  Its like trying to argue with a 4 year old child.

 

Screenshots of the above mentioned FB post. He accuses me of lying.

 

http://yfrog.com/z/j220ozj

http://yfrog.com/nwdhspoj

 

Edit: I can't get the pics to embed... grrr...

Hey Neville-

 

Can you please post those to tinypic.com or something that allows embedding/downloading of the file.  I'm going to press a few media contacts of mine to cover this.

Hey Neville-

 

Can you please post those to tinypic.com or something that allows embedding/downloading of the file.  I'm going to press a few media contacts of mine to cover this.

 

Here you go:

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/sdixlj.jpg

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/jafjpy.jpg

I see hes already deleted 2 anti 48 posts from this morning

I can't STAND the conversations about the "conspiracy" to make a Yes vote ban the streetcar and a No vote allow the streetcar.

 

What are you proposing:  A BAN ON RAIL

 

So when i go to vote, I am voting on the BAN.  Yes to BAN no to NOT BAN.

 

There is no conspiracy!! But people like Smitherman & Mary Kuhl get excited by saying the "Mallory Mafia" is against them!

Unreal. These people are so cynical that they will risk all credibility propagating blatant falsehoods. Are they right to be cynical? I guess we will find out on election night.

 

Apart from their anti-"trolly" club, I think voters have more sense than they give them credit.

 

Where is the media on this? Shouldn't they be calling the liars out?

Did I not predict, weeks ago, on this very forum, that close to the election COAST & Smitherman would start complaining about the ballot language that they wrote, just like they did in 2009?

 

 

 

 

They are going to have a bad day tomorrow.

They are going to have a bad day tomorrow.

 

Mark Miller of COAST is whining about the Enquirer  left and right on twitter.  I assume  he knows what John knows

 

Enquirer coming out strong against issues 47 and 48 and endorsing very few/if any of COAST's puppets

 

GOCOAST COAST

And we can't wait until @Enquirer bashes Issues 47 & 48, but they offer no solutions to derailing Streetcar they know is a disaster as well.

 

GOCOAST COAST

@Enquirer 's predictable Council endorsements due soon. Tell us to re-elect folks making problems, and then complain about same problems

 

GOCOAST COAST

We wonder if @Enquirer really wants to sell papers or not. Best stories are either not covered or or on bottom of Pg. C-5. It's a yawner!

 

Karma is great sometimes. 

 

Jake called this one perfectly.  The enquirer fanned the flames for revenue, didn't ask the proper questions purposefully to keep citizens in the dark, and then ultimately sided with rationality over entertainment

 

With gems like this, I can't imagine why no one takes COAST seriously:

 

GoCOAST

Witches prefer streetcars to brooms cuz they're more evil. RT@vanessalioness: I think streetcar driver thought I was a witch #witchhappens

 

 

 

"Who thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!" -- COAST TO THE ENQUIRER

 

They are going to have a bad day tomorrow.

 

Popcorn, anyone?

Just a heads up, 99% chance CityBeat will have an article about Smithermans Facebook lies tomorrow.

WCET-TV (Channel 48): "Focus: Ballot Issue 48 & A Conversation with Representatives from Three Local Board of Elections,” will be broadcast November 3 from 9:30 to 10pm on CET. During the first half of this program, Focus host Kathy Lehr talks with David D. Dawson and Stephan Louis about Ballot Issue 48, the Cincinnati Streetcar/Passenger Rail Transportation amendment. Followed by a discussion with representatives from three local Board of Elections about why it is important to vote and what individuals need to do to cast a vote properly.

Also, Dawson debates Louis, I guess -- can't imagine they are still putting him out there after his performance at the Aronoff last week -- on Channel 12 Newsmakers at 11:00a Sunday.

 

Will COAST come out in opposition to wasting the taxpayer money for split primaries as currently proposed for Ohio in 2012 (estimated at $15 million)?

Just sent this out in an e-mail blast:

 

Cincinnatians for Progress (cincinnatiansforprogress.com) presents.......

 

Rally for Rail - November 1st

6:00-7:00 PM

(sign-in beginning at 5:30 PM)

Please email [email protected] to RSVP for the rally.

 

 

Featuring Congressman Earl Blumenauer

 

Rep. Earl Blumenauer, one of the nation's leading advocates for regional rail services, is a senior member on the Ways and Means Committee and is the leading Congressional voice for infrastructure finance and federal investment in rail. He is the author of the

 

federal "Small Starts" program that matches federal dollars with local funds to foster streetcars. His work on behalf of livable communities has earned national awards from engineers, architects, contractors, landscape architects, environmentalists and water advocates. He has represented Oregon's 3rd Congressional district since 1996.

 

Please join us at the Kingsgate Marriott Conference Center: near UC at 151 Goodman Drive · Cincinnati, Ohio 45219

 

Nearby transit routes are: #1 Mt Adams-Museum Center, #24 Anderson-UC, #38X Glenway Crossing-Uptown Express, #39 Western Hills Uptown-Downtown, #51 Clifton Hyde Park Crosstown, and #78 Springdale-Vine/Lincoln Heights.

 

Parking garage is at the rear of facility and there is a specific elevator designated for "Kingsgate Marriott" in garage.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/fact-sheet/travel/cvgkg-kingsgate-marriott-conference-center-at-the-university-of-cincinnati/

 

All Aboard Ohio supports Cincinnatians for Progress' efforts to defeat Issue 48's proposed 10-year governmental ban on the improvement of passenger rail in Southwest Ohio.

 

On another note,

 

Queen City Metro is opening a new special route using buses decorated to look like trollies.

 

From go-metro.com:

Add some sparkle to your holidays downtown when you ride the Holly Jolly Trolley, sponsored by The Banks and DCI. Operating Friday, Nov. 25 and Saturdays Nov. 26, Dec. 3, 10 and 17 from noon to 5 p.m. New route: along Walnut and Vine Streets from Freedom Way to Central Parkway, with service to The Banks, Fountain Square, the Main Public Library and much more.

 

 

On another note,

 

Queen City Metro is opening a new special route using buses decorated to look like trollies.

 

From go-metro.com:

Add some sparkle to your holidays downtown when you ride the Holly Jolly Trolley, sponsored by The Banks and DCI. Operating Friday, Nov. 25 and Saturdays Nov. 26, Dec. 3, 10 and 17 from noon to 5 p.m. New route: along Walnut and Vine Streets from Freedom Way to Central Parkway, with service to The Banks, Fountain Square, the Main Public Library and much more.

 

 

 

This is an annual occurrence and has been sponsored by various local companies - this year, its Macy's. Nothing new.

Moderator Note

 

This is an official request to tone down the rhetoric. There are plenty of things one can say about COAST without dragging racial stereotypes and Middle Eastern politics into the mix.

^ I'm with OCtoCincy. You're out of control, man. The other day, I was thinking about how you should probably just stick to the Cincy threads, since you always end up mixing it up with C-towners. Now I'm seeing you get all crazy in a Cincy thread. Tone down the rhetoric, 'cause you just come across as bombastic and it's not productive.

 

I don't mean that as an insult. Try to take it as friendly advice.

 

---------------

 

What happened with the bad day COASTers were supposed to have? Has that been postponed?

 

It perhaps referred to the article in the Enquirer about how Cincinnatians for Progress out-raised COAST $100,000 to $100. Ballpark numbers.

 

PG and Macy's are on the record donating to CFP. If only they would donate to the Streetcar project! 

Don't worry Nati, Its coming.  Whether its today, sat, or sunday, the Enquirer election piece is not going to be kind to COAST or Smitherman.

 

Also CityBeat released an article yesterday ripping Smitherman

 

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-2573-smithermans_strange_assertions.html

 

Enquirer released an article talking about Issue 48 finances

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111027/NEWS01/110280352/Streetcar-proponents-far-outspending-foes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Sounds like Stephan Louis totally lost it during the Channel 12 taping of Newsmakers today. It airs at 11:00a on Sunday.

October 28, 2011

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

In an action filed today with the Ohio Elections Commission, Cincinnatians for Progress formally charged COAST with knowingly making false statements to affect the outcome of the Issue 48 election vote.

 

The case cites twenty instances in the past two months in which COAST made false statements in violation of Ohio Revised Code Section 3517.22. Most claim the city has taken funds away from fire services to fund the streetcar project.

 

The Revised Code specifies those found guilty of violating Section 3517.22 "shall be imprisoned for not more than six months or fined not more than five thousand dollars, or both."

 

Cincinnatians for Progress is leading the effort to defeat Issue 48, which would prohibit the city from investing in rail transit until 2021.

 

COAST has conducted a relentless campaign of deliberate misinformation about Issue 48 in the face of definitive evidence that their statements are wrong. Not only are the facts widely available in local media and city records, they have been provided directly to COAST officials by the city.

 

Our goal in filing this action to to assure that city voters can cast their ballots based on accurate, authoritative information.

 

David Dawson

 

Margaret McGurk

 

Rob Richardson

 

Mark Schmidt

 

Co-chairs, Cincinnatians for Progress

 

[edited to remove phone numbers]

October 28, 2011

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

In an action filed today with the Ohio Elections Commission, Cincinnatians for Progress formally charged COAST with knowingly making false statements to affect the outcome of the Issue 48 election vote.

 

The case cites twenty instances in the past two months in which COAST made false statements in violation of Ohio Revised Code Section 3517.22. Most claim the city has taken funds away from fire services to fund the streetcar project.

 

The Revised Code specifies those found guilty of violating Section 3517.22 "shall be imprisoned for not more than six months or fined not more than five thousand dollars, or both."

 

Cincinnatians for Progress is leading the effort to defeat Issue 48, which would prohibit the city from investing in rail transit until 2021.

 

COAST has conducted a relentless campaign of deliberate misinformation about Issue 48 in the face of definitive evidence that their statements are wrong. Not only are the facts widely available in local media and city records, they have been provided directly to COAST officials by the city.

 

Our goal in filing this action to to assure that city voters can cast their ballots based on accurate, authoritative information.

 

David Dawson

 

Margaret McGurk

 

Rob Richardson

 

Mark Schmidt

 

Co-chairs, Cincinnatians for Progress

 

The evidence is overwhelming, and they were still doing this within the last hour from what I hear.

 

[edited to remove phone numbers]

I am not thrilled about this in a "Yeah! Get those @$$holes!" sort of way.

 

But I am hopeful something will be done to stop people from lying through their teeth and deliberately misleading the public. It's just an awful, awful tactic which has no place in our democratic process. And it has been absolutely pervasive in the Issue 48 campaign. And only on one side of it. That's an objective fact, so let's see what the courts have to say.

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if the Enquirer held back on the endorsements so this news could be included. Or they're planning to run it on Sunday, which means it will reach more readers. Either way, it's good news.

I wrote nothing about race. I wrote about COASTers sense of identity. I don't think you can underestimate their hatefulness. But, what use that information is to the rest of us is another question. Still, horrible as the COAST leaders are, I think there is a benefit to having no illusions about them. Acknowledging the problem is getting half way to the solution.

I'm fully aware of how sick and hateful they are. But moderator posts on UrbanOhio will not be second-guessed. Got a problem with that? Send a DM to an Admin. End of discussion.

I noticed that the Enquirer now has a post in their Politics Extra blog... my question, why do they pigeonhole CfP as pro-streetcar when they are explicitly pro-rail. Perhaps I'm picking a bit, but their headline doesn't mention CfP, it says "Pro-streetcar Group"

Don't expect The Enquirer to cover this in the least.  They didn't cover Stephan Louis's conviction back in 2002 -- didn't ask why someone convicted of unethical behavior was appointed to SORTA's board -- and haven't hesitated to go to him for quotes this time around.

 

Hostman's piece today once again casts the streetcar campaign as the symptom of nefarious back room dealings.  Once again Tom Luken succeeds in positioning himself as a hero of the people. 

 

 

The Enquirer is covering it: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/28/pro-streetcar-group-files-complaint-against-coast/

 

But Finney with COAST has this to say: "Let us give you just one example, the City may not spend capital funds on assets that have a life less than five years. How did they pay for the temporary streetcar signage that they so proudly unveiled two months ago?"

 

This has been answered countless times, including here: http://www.fox19.com/story/15279666/mayor-unveils-new-streetcar-signs-along-proposed-route where the Mayor explains: The Mayor says the signs cost $2,000 and that no general fund revenue money was used to pay for them. It came out of the grant money that's being used solely for the streetcar.

 

Caught in yet ANOTHER lie.

MH, this is not the media, nor is it a public website where all statements can accepted. It is a private website and anything not deemed acceptable by its owners is removed. That includes repeat offenders. Get the hint?

 

If you wish to ask what is appropriate for discussion here at UO, take it to the Forum Issues thread or ask an administrator.

 

No one is forcing you to stay here or post here. If you don't like it, leave.

That's not exactly the answer, because that's capital funds, like COAST is saying, not general funds.

 

A better and more obvious answer is that "an asset" could include an object lasting more than five years and its related components which may or may not last that long. It's ridiculous and nonsensical nit-picking. The streetcar project is clearly a capital investment, which might include the ink and paper in the paperwork to get permits, pieces that wear out on the tools that are used to lay the tracks, the light bulbs in the vehicle that is built, etc, etc.

^ That is the correct way to look at it.

By Finney's logic, the streetcars should be delivered without brakes because the brake pads last less than five years.

During the 2002 Metro Moves campaign, Stephan Louis headed a group called ALERT (Alternatives to Light Rail Transit -- don't ask me how that acronym makes any sense) which spread misinformation about the plan and was found guilty of the same misdeeds COAST is now charged with. ALERT got a slap on the wrist which none of the local media even bothered to report, and they no longer exist as an entity, but the same players including Stephan Louis are back to their old tricks under the COAST flag. In fact, Louis was rewarded with a seat on the SORTA board shortly after Metro Moves.

 

My question for the legal experts here: The complaint was filed against COAST, and not against Mark Miller or any COAST leaders personally. So what happens to Finney, Miller, et al if the OEC finds COAST guilty and, say, levies a hefty fine? Would they be held personally responsible for COAST's conduct, or could they simply dissolve COAST and then re-organize under some new banner?

Wow, what has inspired this defensiveness? Is it just the heat of an electoral battle, or are even the most progressive and civic-minded cincinnatians not entirely immune to our city's legendary devisiveness and pettiness. Most here share many views about the future of cincinnati, including the value of transportation alternatives and building progressive political coalitions around issues like streetcars, improved buses, and other urban development efforts. COAST is totally committed to the destruction of these efforts at all costs until the day they die. I'm just the messenger on COAST. If this is how things go WITHIN a pro-streetcar group, the huge overreaction of some cincinnatians to streetcars seem suddenly much more understandable. If we insist on only interacting with those within narrow ideological boundaries we necessarily limit our ability to build broader coalitions for the future of streetcars or other efforts. I hope that the defeat of Issue 48 is just the first chapter of a long book with more streetcar lines, express bus lanes, and regional rail. But, this forum gives me new cause for some doubts about that.

I would hope that you would know that this forum is open to anyone who wants to view it. That includes groups that are either for or against the streetcar/ Issue 48 such as COAST, CFP, the media etc. I would HOPE that supporters the streetcar would refrain from giving the opposition ammunition especially in light of the recent charges against COAST. I deleted those posts just as I delete the trash that COAST randomly posts on this board. Not to say that some points raised are not valid but the analogies were out of line.

 

That said this is not the place to vent your frustration with the mods or the board. If you have a problem please DM us instead of taking it out on the forum.

 

Thanks.

I had no idea COASTERS came on her. I've never seen such posts. They are more dangerous than many of us like to admit. Issue 48 will go down, but how far we can move beyond that depends on our ability to isolate them in the future. Showing them for who they really are is part of doing that. Give a fool enough rope and he'll hang himself every time. It will take time to get the streetcar up and running and we'll still have to run defense while it is being built and even after its running. We need all the ammo we can get to support streetcars and other efforts like express buses and new streetcar lines.

 

From today's Enquirer:

 

"They're at it again. The folks who brought us Issue 9 in 2009, that weasel-worded, yes-means-no proposition meant to befuddle voters into killing the Cincinnati streetcar, have reprised their antics with Issue 48. And as with that 2009 issue, we vigorously oppose Issue 48 and urge voters to reject it."

 

http://goo.gl/FSTL2

 

Perhaps just as important, the Enquirer endorses seven streetcar supporters for the nine seats, though regrettably, a couple of our most loyal supporters didn't get the endorsement.

 

http://goo.gl/8vPZj

 

Fascinating. Issue 48, not surprising. But the council list...that wasn't expected. I guess they really were just spinning the Streetcar issue for reader interest.

I would've liked to have seen Riverio get an endorsement as well, but it was nice to see Ghiz and Winburn get thrown under the bus. I'm not shedding any tears about Sittenfeld not making the cut, either.

 

From today's Enquirer:

 

"They're at it again. The folks who brought us Issue 9 in 2009, that weasel-worded, yes-means-no proposition meant to befuddle voters into killing the Cincinnati streetcar, have reprised their antics with Issue 48. And as with that 2009 issue, we vigorously oppose Issue 48 and urge voters to reject it."

 

http://goo.gl/FSTL2

 

Perhaps just as important, the Enquirer endorses seven streetcar supporters for the nine seats, though regrettably, a couple of our most loyal supporters didn't get the endorsement.

 

http://goo.gl/8vPZj

 

 

My favorite line was:

 

"Issue 48 is a bad, bad, bad idea"

 

EDIT: I will bet money that a member of COAST (probably Chris Finney) OR Chris Smitherman are on 700wlw tomorrow during Doc Thompson, Bill Cunningham, or both's time slot.