Congratulations to all of you who worked so hard to beat back the neo-cons and neanderthals from COAST on this issue.   :clap: :clap: :clap:

Listening to 550's Brian Thomas this morning, he was on the verge of tears with the defeat of 48.  Said there will be a mass exodus from the city.  Said rising property taxes will cause Chiquita to leave...nevermind that they lease space in the so-called Chiquita Center and don't actually own the buidling.

 

Amy Murray called in and similarly was about the break down.  Thomas called the new council a radical leftist bloc, or seomthing to that effect.

MAZEL TOV TO THE GOOD PEOPLE OF CINCINNATI!

Congratulations.  Proud of you Cincinnati.

Let's get some shovels in the ground.  Or backhoes or whatever. 

Just as an FYI, the individual who initially was trying to convince me that PG Sittenfeld was a streetcar supporter emailed me this morning and noted "he voted No on 48, he is NOT a streetcar supporter".  Due to the emphasis on the "NOT" I'm guessing he made it clear to her that he will definitely not support this project.

You're right in that Sittenfeld made statements regarding that he generally does support rail, but doesn't support this project at this time or something like that.  But I believe with a majority pro-streetcar council he will suddenly start saying he supports it as the project gets rolling.  Regardless it doesn't matter.  The streetcar will be built anyway.  Council doesn't even need to approve anything anymore.  If in the future some sort of council action is required, there's still a streetcar majority without Sittenfeld.  No big deal!

Still have a lot of work to do...

 

Chris Finney was interview on 700wlw and he said they would continue to fight.  Then he declined to answer if they would bring forth another ballot initiative.

 

 

First things first, get some contracts signed and get some dirt moving before costs go up

First things first, get some contracts signed and get some dirt moving before costs go up

 

+1

 

I know there are many, many, many reasons why this project has been delayed.  However, I'll have a difficult time donating time/money to fight the next ballot initiative if there is no visible progress being made on this project.

>No big deal!

 

I'd be very careful in assuming that this is going to progress smoothly.  No doubt Finney is drafting a lawsuit of some sort as we speak.  He will succeed in affecting it some regard.

 

Meanwhile, Sittenfeld's rise from obscurity is frightening.  He raised the most money in the history of Cincinnati city council campaigning, has no resume to speak of, and stood for nothing. 

>No big deal!

 

I'd be very careful in assuming that this is going to progress smoothly.  No doubt Finney is drafting a lawsuit of some sort as we speak.  He will succeed in affecting it some regard.

 

Meanwhile, Sittenfeld's rise from obscurity is frightening.  He raised the most money in the history of Cincinnati city council campaigning, has no resume to speak of, and stood for nothing. 

 

I said something similar over in the City Council thread.  It's scary what $300,000+ can get you, and it's scary that an unknown first time candidate can get almost 50 maximum individual campaign donations ($1100), a rarity in such a small race.

>No big deal!

 

I'd be very careful in assuming that this is going to progress smoothly.  No doubt Finney is drafting a lawsuit of some sort as we speak.  He will succeed in affecting it some regard.

 

Meanwhile, Sittenfeld's rise from obscurity is frightening.  He raised the most money in the history of Cincinnati city council campaigning, has no resume to speak of, and stood for nothing. 

 

This issue was certainly the most intriguing outcome of this election. I follow Cincinnati politics and issues as close as anyone can, for not living in the city anymore, and the only thing I know about this guy is that his family is exceptionally rich. It is extremely odd in Cincinnati to catapult to #2 as a nobody.

 

The only angle that makes sense for me with this is that he's simply climbing the ladder towards national politics and this was a test of how far his family's considerable connections and resources could propel him. In an age of increasing anxiety that our nation isbecoming a corporate oligarchy, this outcome just doesn't sit right with me.

>I can't imagine better news.

 

I can -- I'm very worried that this slim defeat will embolden COAST to assemble yet another petition drive next year and that Smitherman will bog down the process while on council, will have his leg humped by Barry Horstman, etc., and will continue to make this project vulnerable to being scuttled. 

 

Look at it from their perspective -- they can just keeping whining about the streetcar and they're assured several radio spots per week.  They'll make stuff up and never bee called for it since the media, five years into this, STILL doesn't understand the game they play. 

 

Smitherman is quoted today as saying he will not work on another petition drive.

 

 

>I can't imagine better news.

 

I can -- I'm very worried that this slim defeat will embolden COAST to assemble yet another petition drive next year and that Smitherman will bog down the process while on council, will have his leg humped by Barry Horstman, etc., and will continue to make this project vulnerable to being scuttled. 

 

Look at it from their perspective -- they can just keeping whining about the streetcar and they're assured several radio spots per week.  They'll make stuff up and never bee called for it since the media, five years into this, STILL doesn't understand the game they play. 

 

Smitherman is quoted today as saying he will not work on another petition drive.

 

 

 

And he is, of course, a man of his word.

Jake is right. miller and finney will NEVER stop. Why would they if they think they are slaying the evil dragon. This isn't an economic issue for them. It is about protecting their tribe from competing tribes. They will never stop until they are either arrested for fraud or embezzlement or they die. A few IRA terrorists are still "at work" in northern ireland to this day. The IRA began in the 1930s. COAST is the same.

Streetcar opponents holding a press conference at noon today. 

 

Get Ready for the Finney Luken show

 

Luken going off the rails on 700wlw right now

Streetcar opponents holding a press conference at noon today.

 

This ought to be rich....

All Aboard Ohio and the Ohio Environmental Council are jointly issuing a press release shortly.

Tom Luken rambled on 700wlw .

 

Said there is no federal or state funding for the project.  Said costs will come out of public service.  Says no one has answered any of his questions.

 

Was extremely incoherent even for him

 

Smitherman on 700wlw at 12:06.  Quinlivan on at 1 o'clock hour

Accidentally posted this in the City Council thread:

 

My gut reaction on the slimmer margin by which 48 failed (seeing precinct results will help confirm or refute):

1) West side (blue collar) whites were motivated to turn out to defeat SB5. They largely hate the streetcar.

2) Anti-streetcar blacks (and maybe 98 Degrees whites, haha) turned out because Smitherman was running.

 

A wildcard is if people learned over the past two years that they made a mistake in 2009 by voting "no for no streetcar". Thing is, like Eighth & State said, it's hard to know which side is more affected by this problem (surely some voted "yes for yes on the streetcar" both times). The question, I suppose then, is which constituency is less educated (or has a lower reading comprehension level) -- supporters or opponents? That would determine which side is more affected by "confusing" ballot language.

 

If turnout is bigger on the west side than in 2009, and black precincts went more pro-48 than pro-9 (with other areas showing less variation), this would confirm my thinking.

 

Remember that SB5 brought out FOP sympathizers and labor liberals who are a different type of voter than the liberal elite who is likely to believe there is benefit in the streetcar (combine this with west siders' aversion to supporting investments in other parts of the city). Then there's the uniquely-Cincinnatian coalition of lower-income blacks, faux-environmentalists, and homeless advocates who see some types of public transit improvements as a threat.

 

Edit: Yet another thing to remember is the sneakier ballot language: some people thought they were voting on streetcars, not any passenger rail primarily in public right-of-way. Anyone who is pro-rail and anti-streetcar would be more likely to have voted for 48 than 9. I don't believe this alone could account for the large shift in votes, because CfP (and in the very end, the Enquirer) did a fairly good job of getting the truth out there.

Why do they(wlw) keep saying people were confused with the wording of issue 48???? Man can't 700 just let it go already??

Why do they(wlw) keep saying people were confused with the wording of issue 48???? Man can't 700 just let it go already??

 

No. Because that would mean admitting they were wr, wrrr... Well, you know.

Why do they(wlw) keep saying people were confused with the wording of issue 48???? Man can't 700 just let it go already??

 

No. Because that would mean admitting they were wr, wrrr... Well, you know.

 

Only Smitmerman and COAST have the audacity to write a misleading charter amendment and immediately turn around and play the victim, claiming they lost because it was confusingly worded.

Why do they(wlw) keep saying people were confused with the wording of issue 48???? Man can't 700 just let it go already??

 

Easier to call people stupid in general, than admit defeat....

>and immediately turn around and play the victim

 

Luken was saying that the Ohio Elections Commission matter with Mark Miller was Miller GOING AFTER CFP.  This is the kind of stuff Mao and Stalin did. 

I'd love to see this progress get built on with a comprehensive rail plan for the region/county put on the ballot.  Give them something else to worry about besides the streetcar. 

Now that the streetcar has been approved officially, is there any possibiliy that the Federal gov't, or some other interest,  will chip in some money?

I'd love to see this progress get built on with a comprehensive rail plan for the region/county put on the ballot.  Give them something else to worry about besides the streetcar. 

 

One question I have...  Are we planning on building the tracks to light rail standards, so that in a future light rail plan, we can use the existing tracks for both light rail and streetcars? I know that this had been discussed with the previous Banks-to-UC plan.

I'd love to see this progress get built on with a comprehensive rail plan for the region/county put on the ballot.  Give them something else to worry about besides the streetcar. 

 

I agree, but get the first loop in the ground first. Then persistently get signatures, year after year, for extensions and other projects. Do like Smitherman and COAST did -- just keep posing the questions.

I think building the tracks to light rail standards is a bad idea because it would have to be configured in such a way that anticipates future station locations -- so in other words very little of it could be put to use if even one station were shifted for any reason.  Also, if the Mt. Auburn Tunnel is revisited, we are only talking about the blocks south of Central Parkway.

 

The tracks laid in Seattle's bus tunnel back in the late 80's were a total disaster.  They could not be used when it came time for light rail 15 years later because of advances in technology, and the floor of the tunnel needed to be dropped by 2 inches. 

So what was the outcome of the noon press conference?

Now that the streetcar has been approved officially, is there any possibiliy that the Federal gov't, or some other interest,  will chip in some money?

 

I beleive they City is applying for TIGER III funds

http://allaboardohio.org/2011/11/09/statewide-groups-say-pro-rail-vote-in-cincinnati-essential-for-keeping-young-people-jobs-and-hope-in-ohio/

 

For Immediate Release

Nov. 9, 2011

 

Ken Prendergast

Executive Director

All Aboard Ohio

[email protected]

(216) 288-4883

 

Jack Shaner

Public Affairs Director

Ohio Environmental Council

[email protected]

(614) 466-1693

 

Statewide groups say pro-rail vote in Cincinnati was

essential for keeping young people, jobs and hope in Ohio

 

All Aboard Ohio and the Ohio Environmental Council congratulate the voters of Cincinnati for turning back anti-rail and anti-city forces who would restrain the city from competing with others for economic development investments.

 

On Tuesday, Cincinnati voters took control of their city’s future by voting 51.5-48.5 against Issue 48, a proposed City Charter amendment that would have prevented the city from participating for 10 years in any passenger rail improvements, including its planned streetcar. This was the second defeated ballot issue since 2009 that was intended to stop all passenger rail development in the city.

 

The streetcar prevailed, in spite of alleged false statements by rail opponents who repeatedly claimed that the streetcar project has already caused city fire stations to close. Opponents even tried to confuse voters by saying that a “no” vote would stop the streetcar; actually, a “yes” vote was necessary to pass the charter amendment to kill the streetcar.

 

Legal action by Cincinnatians For Progress is pending against streetcar opponents who, incredibly, asked a federal court in Cincinnati this week to overturn a long-standing Ohio election law which prohibits making false statements in an election campaign. All Aboard Ohio and the Ohio Environmental Council congratulate Cincinnatians For Progress for running an honest and informed campaign to defeat Issue 48.

 

Cincinnati voters also voted Tuesday for City Council candidates – all are at-large seats in Cincinnati. When the new city council organizes in January, it will have a supermajority of streetcar supporters, with six of its nine members solidly will be solid pro-streetcar. This should enable City Hall to fend off any further attacks that could keep the city from moving forward.

 

“Finally, there is a ray of light for passenger rail in Ohio – a ray of light rail, that is,” said Jack Shaner, Deputy Director of the Ohio Environmental Council.  “Better mobility, cleaner air, new investment – this is the ‘cargo’ of benefits that Cincinnati voters have once and for all positioned Cincinnati to receive.” 

 

“Forcing young professionals to drive everywhere is a sure way to drive them right out of Ohio,” said All Aboard Ohio Executive Director Ken Prendergast. “In the 21st century, if a city or a state lacks quality public transportation that includes rail, it is going to have a tougher time competing for young professionals and their entrepreneurial spirit for creating the jobs of tomorrow.”

 

Young people do not have the same love affair for cars that their parents or grandparents had. The share of miles driven by people aged 21 to 30 in the U.S. fell to 13.7% in 2009 from 20.8% in 1995, according to the 2010 Federal Highway Administration's National Household Travel Survey. This decline came despite the fact that the current crop of 20-somethings is the largest generation in American history. The Baby Boom is second.

 

According to business research firms Kiplinger and J.D. Power & Associates, as well as automakers like Ford and Toyota, young people increasingly value their participation in the digital revolution more than buying new cars. Meanwhile, public transit allows them to use their smart phones and be more productive while they travel.

 

They also view rail transit and the walkable neighborhoods they energize as more environmentally sustainable than gas guzzling, drive-everywhere suburbs. Rail transit provides long-term infrastructure with high-volume pedestrian traffic around which dynamic urban neighborhoods are emerging in every city that has a significant rail investment.

 

Thanks to Tuesday’s vote, this will soon become evident in Cincinnati, too.

 

END

What a relief , I'm guessing this won't silence slitherman or coast..... :-D

Apologies for size...How do I slim it down?

 

 

[Edit: Add the text "width=800" to the IMG tag to reduce the size of the image.]

slitherman

 

Yessssssssss... I love it.

Brinkman said today they might go back to the ballot box to stop the project. 

 

Lets get these contracts signed, sealed, and delivered

^They should be this persistent at bringing in new companies.

Brinkman said today they might go back to the ballot box to stop the project. 

 

Lets get these contracts signed, sealed, and delivered

 

When? No way they'd do in Nov 2012, a presidential election year. By Nov 2013, the construction could be nearly complete.

National coverage:

 

 

Cincinnati streetcar survives anti-rail effort

Wednesday, November 09, 2011

 

A majority of Cincinnati voters Tuesday stood by current plans to reintroduce streetcars to the city, rejecting Issue 48, a ballot measure that would have banned any city funds to be spent on passenger rail implementation.

 

With 99% of the city’s precincts reporting, 35,469 votes, or 51.5%, opposed Issue 48, while 33,449 voted in favor of the measure, which would have thwarted the streetcar proposal.

 

....Another supporter, John Schneider, told Railway Age the election also produces a city council more staunchly in support of streetcar development. “What’s really key is that we now have a solid super-majority of streetcar supporters. Three [streetcar] opponents lost. It’s clear sailing now,” Schneider said.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/cincinnati-streetcar-survives-anti-rail-referendum-3699.html

 

KJP NOTE: Railway Age is a 155-year-old rail industry publication.

 

 

Effort to block Cincinnati streetcar project rejected; city says rail will attract development

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS 

Last Updated: November 09, 2011 - 1:04 am

 

CINCINNATI — Voters in Cincinnati have halted an effort that would have stopped the city's downtown streetcar project.

 

With all precincts reporting unofficial returns Tuesday, the anti-rail ballot issue was defeated 35,655 to 33,530. City officials have already begun planning and engineering work on the 4-mile loop. Mayor Mark Mallory and other supporters say the project will attract development, visitors and new residents to downtown.

 

Opponents call the estimated $95 million streetcar project an expensive effort that will accomplish little when the city has major budget problems. Among opponents were the local chapter of the NAACP and an anti-tax group. They mounted the Issue 48 campaign to block spending through 2020.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/1fe3cff53a9746f69653094f6ef83573/OH--Cincinnati-Streetcar/

Brinkman said today they might go back to the ballot box to stop the project. 

 

Lets get these contracts signed, sealed, and delivered

 

When? No way they'd do in Nov 2012, a presidential election year. By Nov 2013, the construction could be nearly complete.

 

http://www.fox19.com/story/16002703/streetcar-opponents-react-to-vote

 

If the money problems mount, however, Brinkman says another petition could be on the horizon.

 

"Certainly they've got to figure out a way to get it done and if they don't we will go back to the ballot box," he said. "They can't be building a streetcar when they haven't addressed the pension issues and the fiscal long term stability of the city."

 

This combined with the fact that Finney hinted at it last night sounds to me like they are planning another initiative ASAP

Here are a few photos from last night.

 

David Dawson, CFP co-chair:

 

John Schneider:

 

Brad Thomas (who started this 500-page thread) and Casey Coston:

 

Bob Schwartz:

 

Brian Murphy:

 

Mark Vaughn and Jill Zadik:

 

Jenny Kessler of UrbanCincy.com, Noel Prows, Casey Coston of Soapboxmedia.com, also Michael Moore of the city engineering department and Judy Craig of Parsons-Brinkerhoff in the back:

 

 

Last but not least, Chris Finney, who was lurking outside the party:

 

 

As I wrote last night, since Issue 48 raised no money, had no yard signs, and didn't even have a party, he lurked on the sidewalk to talk to the media that had gathered for the No on 48 campaign. 

 

A future Anti-Streetcar ballot issue isn't an Issue2 that would crucify Republicans generally by boosting union sympathizing turnout.  Also, while I'm a outsider looking in, COAST has never struck me as truly part of the local Republican machine down there (again maybe I'm completely off base on this opinion).  Accordingly, I'd expect a 2012 push especially since as you say 2013 would probably be too late.

My sense is that they aren't going to muster a more serious attempt at blocking this project than they already have. Whether this handful of men tries something on their own is another story, but I just don't see yet another big move against this thing.

 

Why? No good reason, sorry. I don't get the sense that Cincinnatians are infused with hatred of the streetcar, or they wouldn't have voted in the council candidates that they did. It's just not a wedge issue. It doesn't obsess and define the city population like it does Miller and Finney. That, and the slow and inexorable march of time is moving forward, and people are going to start focusing on other issues.

I want to be happy trust me, and I have been all day but just the very idea of ANOTHER ballot measure makes me sick to my stomach.

 

IMO Cincinnati has historically had a small group of people (pessimistic and without vision) who act as a constant thorn in its side.  Recently these people have continued to abuse the media and electoral system, beating fellow residents over the head with propaganda after propaganda, and vote after vote.  Luckily they have not been more successful in elections but unfortunately they have been very successful in casting doubt.

In 2009 I worked on NO on 9, I have since moved, and unfortunately 48 received one less NO vote as a result of my move. 

But these people will not relocate, they can only be overcome by a massive influx of new voices (which could come from recruiting efforts of progressive companies etc) or by the shear popularity and logic of a regional transit plan. 

 

For pro-transit Cincinnatians, I think NOW is the time to go on the offensive. Now is the time to REWORK the "Re-Envision Cincinnati" plan that has been circulating for years now.  Many people seem to have voted NO on 48 for reasons of light rail of inclines etc....  If they want another fight in 2012, we should bring it to them instead, with a version of "MetroMoves lite" if you will.  There is council support for better transit, 2012 is a presidential election year, I say we get started next week and we don't wait for the local election cycle to kick in next August.  We use the networks (official and casual) that have been established to combat both 9 and 48 to really push an issue we can say yes to.  Now is the time to yell until COAST cannot be heard any more.

 

Just my opinion.

From the Business Courier:

 

Council now has at least five solid votes on the streetcar, including Council newcomer Yvette Simpson, who urged city officials Wednesday to “hurry up and break ground” on the project.

 

I believe we need to move it expediently,” she said. “The delay is what causes the problem. You give people too much time to doubt it, that’s when you get in trouble.”

 

 

I love this woman already.

>I love this woman already.

 

I saw her first:

 

 

No, really.  I spoke to most of these people at least briefly at various candidate forums back in the spring.  I really encourage everyone to go to those because it's a great way to get a sense for these people. 

>I love this woman already.

 

I saw her first:

 

 

I can see why. ;) Smart and attractive!

 

And I like the idea of advancing a comprehensive plan for transportation in Cincinnati. Help people understand what the desired outcomes are (population growth goals, mobility goals for various demographic groups, economic development, sustainability, etc), what the total transportation vision is, and how the starter streetcar line fits into the grand scheme.

>I love this woman already.

(Yvette Simpson)

No, really.  I spoke to most of these people at least briefly at various candidate forums back in the spring.  I really encourage everyone to go to those because it's a great way to get a sense for these people. 

I friended a bunch of candidates on FaceBook to see what they had to say.

Amy Murray was particularly interesting because the vast majority of her commenting supporters all lived out of town.

 

For pro-transit Cincinnatians, I think NOW is the time to go on the offensive.

 

I have a few ideas ruminating around in my head. One a big one, and two small ones.