worst case scenario, I don't think it will be difficult to find a replacement for the $11 million if the Blue Ash Airport funds can't be used.

 

How do you figure?  The last thing this project needs is more delays and negative PR in  my opinion

 

call it a hunch

 

Brad, do you know something the rest of us don't?  Is the project getting a TIGER grant?

 

Yes. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/12/13/cincinnati-streetcar-wins-109m-from.html

A far cry from $56.8m, but still a victory!

w00t.

A far cry from $56.8m, but still a victory!

w00t.

 

There were 828 applicants for $526.9 million.

will that extra $11 extend the streetcar to 2nd street or is it still going to stop at Gov. Square in the first phase?

^ More generally, what does this amount of money change? I guess it would help alleviate any problems with utility relocation.

So what does this extra $11 million do for us now?  Anything?  or will it be saved for 'Phase 2' - whenever that happens..?!

^Personally, I'd substitute that $11M for the Blue Ash Airport money and proceed with the current plan.  That money from the airport has been causing trouble for this project ever since it was announced.  Sort that issue out with the FAA on the side.  If it turns out we can use a portion of it for ground transportation, put it toward Phase 2 or a last minute extension to the Banks.  If not, find a way to use it to improve Lunken.

Woo Hoo!!!  That's great news!  I hope they extend the line down to Second street with it.  If I remember correctly, it would only cost an additional 4-5 million to extend it down that way?  Anyone remember the exact costs of that?

It also gives the project more cushion if Duke energy decides to start jacking up the price of relocating utilities

Woo Hoo!!!  That's great news!  I hope they extend the line down to Second street with it.  If I remember correctly, it would only cost an additional 4-5 million to extend it down that way?  Anyone remember the exact costs of that?

Woo Hoo!!!  That's great news!  I hope they extend the line down to Second street with it.  If I remember correctly, it would only cost an additional 4-5 million to extend it down that way?  Anyone remember the exact costs of that?

 

I recall $9M to Freedom Way...

^ Streetcar is never going south of Second.

Why didn't Ky go for these grants as well to tie into the Cincinnati side?

It certainly seems like they should have.  My guess is... the cities interested are Newport and Covington, both of which have their own financial woes to deal with at the moment.  They support the streetcar, but are not in a position to be planning an extension to a project that may or may not happen (I'm very optimistic, but I can't believe it's almost 2012 and construction STILL hasn't started).  After the streetcar is operational, I would assume tying into the system from KY would be discussed more realistically.

The 2nd St. ramp down to Pete Rose Way was built to support light rail leading to the Taylor-Southgate Bridge, so it can handle the streetcar.  But the operations will probably require an act of congress to allow some sort of bi-state agreement between TANK and SORTA.  Then, there is the matter of how far the Newport streetcars travel into Cincinnati.  Do they only travel to The Banks, which means the extension would only require at most two streetcars, do they turn around at Central Parkway, do they go all the way to Findlay Market, or do all streetcars travel from Findlay Market to Newport?  Do the streetcars travel across the Taylor Southgate or the L&N?  One track or two on the bridges?  None of this has been studied. 

The 2nd St. ramp down to Pete Rose Way was built to support light rail leading to the Taylor-Southgate Bridge, so it can handle the streetcar.  But the operations will probably require an act of congress to allow some sort of bi-state agreement between TANK and SORTA. 

 

Such an agreement was negotiated and signed in 2001. I expect there will be a sort of "code-sharing" airline-type agreement where costs are pooled and split up based on mileage traveled in each jurisdiction.

 

Kentucky knows where it wants the streetcar to go and is just waiting for it to be successful in Cincinnati before moving forward.

are you privy to knowing where they want it to go, and would you be able to share that with us? :-D

^ I'll ask around and see if I can do that. Doubt anyone wants to increase speculation. It would be many years away.

Blue Ash airport in the news with video:

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_east_cincinnati/blue_ash/blue-ash-airport-likely-grounded

I predict $10.9M from feds changes nothing about this project, just patches financial uncertainties. Perhaps takes it to 2nd street. Unfortunate that it can't get up the hill.

 

This project had, and continues to have, an enormous amount of resistance. If they break ground, it will be a testament to a well-played game by a crafty and resilient mayor.

Feel free to join us at:

 

Cincinnati All Aboard Ohio Chapter, Friends of Cardinal, NARP

Holiday Gathering!!

Thursday, December 15, 630pm till...

The Rookwood Restaurant

1077 Celestial St.

Cincinnati, OH 45202 (Mt. Adams)

513-421-5555

Word around the campfire is that USDOT Secretary Ray LaHood will be in Cincinnati tomorrow for a "major transportation announcement."

It would be major if it turns out to be significantly more money than was already leaked.

 

(Otherwise, the major announcement has already been made.)

Anyone have any insight? Is there some additional announcement that will be made? A yes or no is good. No need to reveal the details if you know them...

Word around the campfire is that USDOT Secretary Ray LaHood will be in Cincinnati tomorrow for a "major transportation announcement."

 

This is a reach, but I wonder if this has anything to do with the $57 million in state administered federal funds that were supposed to go to the streetcar, but were rescinded by the Kasich people and reprogrammed for highways? Maybe LaHood is going to take the funds back from Ohio and spend it directly on the streetcar? That would be a real putdown for Team K and well deserved. One can always hope.

Incidentally, today 700 WLW was prepping its hourly news with "more taxes to pay for streetcar", insinuating that taxes will be raised.  Its actual report reported the source of the funds correctly. 

 

>This is a reach

 

Yeah, that would be incredible.

Guys, the announcement of the $10.9m hasn't officially been made yet. I know it's old news around here by now, but that's what it's going to be.

Look at this comment from one the the news sites. How can they even allow nonfactual posts like this?

 

"I can't understand it. All they gotta do is change the route to go from downtown to Hyde Park, and people would probably support it. That is essentially the same distance, and there are actually people in Hyde Park who have money to spend downtown which would make the claim that it will bring business more beleiveable."

Look at this comment from one the the news sites. How can they even allow nonfactual posts like this?

 

Because the mainstream media is dying, preceded in death by the passing of journalism, and followed by a vacuum filled by hyperbole, entertainment and ignorance.

Guys, the announcement of the $10.9m hasn't officially been made yet. I know it's old news around here by now, but that's what it's going to be.

 

Correct, and it's enough to get the streetcar to the edge of the Banks @ 2nd Street.

Guys, the announcement of the $10.9m hasn't officially been made yet. I know it's old news around here by now, but that's what it's going to be.

 

Correct, and it's enough to get the streetcar to the edge of the Banks @ 2nd Street.

 

that's good. FWW is like 20+ lanes (including breakdown lanes) from S 3rd to N 2nd.  And it sets the streetcar up for a straight shot to Newport.

The issue with getting the streetcar deeper into the Banks has to do with building over the parking garages (one tends to forget that the Banks sits atop North America's largest underground parking garage).

 

Building over the garages can be done, but it's more expensive that other parts of the line, and I suspect it is problematic in terms of maintenance, leaks into the garages, etc.

 

And besides, the idea is to get people walking a little. I walk Main Street from Second Street to the river's edge almost every day. It's a short walk, and the grade never exceeds 5%. Few people will object to doing so. Plus I like the idea of the streetcar's hanging out on Second Street at its end of the line for its short layover. Together with its crossing the Main and Walnut Street bridges over FWW, it will be hugely visible to the entire region forever.

 

I think it's fine.

The issue with getting the streetcar deeper into the Banks has to do with building over the parking garages (one tends to forget that the Banks sits atop North America's largest underground parking garage).

 

Building over the garages can be done, but it's more expensive that other parts of the line, and I suspect it is problematic in terms of maintenance, leaks into the garages, etc.

 

And besides, the idea is to get people walking a little. I walk Main Street from Second Street to the river's edge almost every day. It's a short walk, and the grade never exceeds 5%. Few people will object to doing so. Plus I like the idea of the streetcar's hanging out on Second Street at its end of the line for its short layover. Together with its crossing the Main and Walnut Street bridges over FWW, it will be hugely visible to the entire region forever.

 

I think it's fine.

 

that parking garage is massive beyond belief.  I rode my bicycle around in it one sunday in the summer and before that i really didn't get a sense of the size of that thing.  It was like an air conditioned (since it's underground it was cooler) completely empty, indoor track (although the pillars got in the way a little)

^^Agree.  No need for it to go any father south, except to cross over to Newport later.  We need to focus on the Uptown link now 

^ My guess is that some people on this list are too young or too new to Cincinnati to remember the old riverfront -- the flooding, the severe grade change, the hamster tubes over the twice-as-wide FWW, and the super-elevated, single-destination Riverfront Stadium. I think it's truly remarkable how seamless and natural the transition from "downtown" to the Banks is today, so much so that eventually the Banks' name will be forgotten as it gets wholly absorbed part and parcel into the fabric of the CBD.

 

All of this didn't come easy. The city's 1980's-genre plans for reconnecting the riverfront to the CBD were truly grostesque and were undone by five guys sitting in a room one afternoon in the mid 1990's, redefining the "level of life" for the new riverfront that you see today. There were a couple of years of infighting and manuevering to make this happen, with far more intrigue than even with the streetcar. The city's development director, who was wedded to the old plan, lost his job over it. It's a good story, worth recounting someday.

^I'd love to hear it!  The excitement and progress being made in the basin is something I've dreamed of since I was a child.  The old riverfront was horrible and desolate.  Bravo to you John and everyone else involved, on whats been accomplished thus far!

Tom luken in rare form on 700wlw

 

"its been declared a bad thing"

 

"its illegal to accept the money"

 

"its not transportation"

 

 

Tom luken on 700wlw right now saying tiger grant is illegal.

Tom luken on 700wlw right now saying tiger grant is illegal.

 

Doesn't he have shuffleboard to play or something?

So 700 host Doc Thompson just called the streetcar "a zit on Cincinnati's butt", that in 20 years it will be considered a white elephant, and that the whole planning and construction of it is corrupt.  Then some independent auditor called up offering to audit the project.  Also suspected that the streetcar will cause damage to building foundations.  And that the city might change which street it wants to build it on mid-construction, leaving many streets torn up. 

 

 

>I rode my bicycle around in it one sunday

 

When I was 12 I rode my bike 9 miles downtown then over the Suspension Bridge and around the Riverfront Stadium garage with one of my friends. During the rollerblading craze we skated those same ramps, and also we skated in a gang through the Atrium I lobby to the bridge over Fort Washington Way.  Oh yeah, and took the elevator to the top of the McAlpin's garage and skated down the helix. 

 

Investigate property holding along streetcar route

 

thanks Mr Jaques for your reply to this imbecilic letter to the editor. (I have opted out of using FB for commenting) One of the reasons I like the project is because of the number of property owners along the route. How did I find out how many?

I looked it up on the HamCoAud's site.

flippin rocket science.....

still, how come the media never reports the hundreds of affected property owners?

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/12/14/investigate-property-holding-along-streetcar-route/

Hi Guys,

 

I think that COAST is about to make their next move on the Streetcar. Mark Miller has been taunting Mayor Mallory via Twitter that they 'have a big surprise in store for him', and last night at midnight COAST attorney and all around asshat Chris Finney sent out this tweet:

 

 

@Chris_Finney

 

Streetcar surprises coming soon!!!

 

12 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone

 

Having read about Luken's comments today on WLW today calling the TIGER grants illegal, and the Biz Courrier piece on the FAA's letter regarding the sale of Blue Ash Airport, I suspect that COAST is going to sue on one or both of these issues in another attempt to derail (no pun intended) the Streetcar. I checked the Clerk of Court's website and Finney has not filed anything there as of yet, but if he's suing on either of those issues he'll likely do so in Federal court.

 

Something is clearly up. Any thoughts on what the regressive next move will be?

The level of ridiculous rhetoric being tossed about with this project is beyond belief.....

 

The opposition doesnt know what defeat means. Don't they get it at this point that support for this project is strong? They continue to lose so that should be obvious at this point.

 

Put their resources into something else worth fighting for.

Tom luken in rare form on 700wlw

 

"its been declared a bad thing"

 

"its illegal to accept the money"

 

"its not transportation"

 

 

 

BTW, the above was posted in the thread "New to Cleveland: A Guide to (re)Discovering the City" -- not sure why!!

 

I moved it here.

Last gasp of an irrelevant organization!    Luken has been off his meds for some time now.  Finney and Miller are just pissed because they lost, twice!    Tear....

If he is calling it illegal because the state wrote it into budget that the state cant appropriate the fund, he obviously hasnt been keeping up with things.

Tom luken in rare form on 700wlw

 

"its been declared a bad thing"

 

"its illegal to accept the money"

 

"its not transportation"

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, the above was posted in the thread "New to Cleveland: A Guide to (re)Discovering the City" -- not sure why!!

 

I moved it here

 

Thanks. I was wondering where it went haha

They are probably going to claim the city will be using the Blue Ash Airport sale funds illegally.

 

But, consider:

 

“If at any time between the Effective Date and the Possession Date, Seller’s estimated costs to reconfigure the Blue Ash Airport prove to be prohibitive, or if adequate grant financing assistance is not available, then the Seller reserves the right to close the Blue Ash Airport.”

Oberding says Cincinnati's request for a grant from the FAA was not approved.

She also says while federal law requires the money from the sale be used for airport operations, Cincinnati is negotiating with the FAA to use those funds for other purposes.

SOURCE: http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_east_cincinnati/blue_ash/blue-ash-airport-likely-grounded

 

 

Congress addressed this prospect by enacting the Privatization Pilot Program, which authorizes the FAA to grant exemptions from sections 47107(b) and 47133 to permit the sponsor to use sales or lease proceeds for nonairport purposes, on certain conditions.

http://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/publications/federal_register_notices/media/obligation_final99.pdf

 

47107(b):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_49_00047107----000-.html

 

47133:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_49_00047133----000-.html

 

These provisions tell me that, if a public airport is sold to a public or private entity, then the revenues from that sale need to stay with that airport. But if the airport is closed as a result of a sale, then there is no airport use for the sale revenues to be allocated. The principal reason for this provision is to protect against diversion of federal Airport & Airways Trust Fund moneys collected on aviation users to non-aviation purposes. If there is no such diversion, then nothing illegal has occurred. At least that's my unschooled read of things.

Tom is referencing the fact that State Law made it illegal to pass any money, of any source, to the streetcar.  Unfortunately for Tom, this money never passes through the states, and instead goes directly to the local municipality.

 

EDIT: just noticed someone already said this.

 

 

Tom is referencing the fact that State Law made it illegal to pass any money, of any source, to the streetcar.  Unfortunately for Tom, this money never passes through the states, and instead goes directly to the local municipality.

 

I believe it goes to SORTA as the designated recipient