Not bad. My worst fear was that they'd select some faux-historicist "ye olde trolley" shelter, but I'm pleasantly surprised.

I have no idea why you would have such a fear, or be surprised at all.  There has never been any "ye olde trolley" flavor in any official announcements or descriptions of the streetcar; only by the COAST crowd.

^ Despite a few high-profile modern buildings on the UC campus and downtown, Cincinnati's architectural climate is notoriously conservative, and given that the streetcar serves the historic Over-the-Rhine neighborhood, I imagine there was immense pressure to design something old-timey in a misguided effort to "blend in" with the city's historic architecture, which of course would have looked like a bad knock-off. I'm happy the city and the architects have resisted any such temptation.

That picture needs a streetcar

 

That picture needs a streetcar

 

 

Nice job! But I understand why the streetcar was left out. When I see your version, I see the streetcar at first, then MAYBE I see the shelter!

http://www.urbancincy.com/2011/12/city-selects-final-streetcar-station-design/

 

COAST

Posted December 20, 2011 at 4:10 pm | #

 

Don’t worry Yup’s, you will never see these. Mallory’s Folly Trolley will never be built, we will see to that. This is a promise. 65% of the people do not want the trolley built, and we will make sure their voices are heard. You only won the election because of the misleading ballot language plus all of union thugs turning out to vote to keep their plush benefits. Let’s see if you keep popping those champagne corks when we stop this boondoggle.

 

Mark Miller sounds like a pleasant guy to be around

^ Despite a few high-profile modern buildings on the UC campus and downtown, Cincinnati's architectural climate is notoriously conservative, and given that the streetcar serves the historic Over-the-Rhine neighborhood, I imagine there was immense pressure to design something old-timey in a misguided effort to "blend in" with the city's historic architecture, which of course would have looked like a bad knock-off. I'm happy the city and the architects have resisted any such temptation.

 

I don't agree about the architecture climate here, at least not compared to the rest of the country.  Regardless, I could see something a bit more historically inspired going in OTR, with  more modern designs downtown.  There's room for both at the very least.  The structural cast iron aesthetic of Findlay Market lends itself beautifully to transit shelters for instance.  The historic roof canopies on Chicago 'L' stations are a perfect example. 

didn't COAST write the ballot language?

didn't COAST write the ballot language?

 

Finney wrote the ballot language word for word himself. So if the COAST assholes want to blame anyone for the 'confusing ballot language' they should go and talk to their own shyster. Anyway, Mark Miller and friends are desperately looking for any way to spin the election results for themselves.

Facts and logic don't matter to them. They'd blame the failure of Issue 48 on demonic possession if they thought they could make a viable meme out of it.

Facts and logic don't matter to them. They'd blame the failure of Issue 48 on demonic possession if they thought they could make a viable meme out of it.

 

Jake played bass in the band "Viable Meme" if memory serves me correctly.

COAST wrote the proposed amendment and the ballot language was not confusing. How is “Would you like to amend the charter to include ‘COAST’s proposed amendment’?” confusing. The question was simple. Do you want to amend the city charter. And the voters said no. Twice. Case closed. Twice…

http://www.urbancincy.com/2011/12/city-selects-final-streetcar-station-design/

 

COAST

Posted December 20, 2011 at 4:10 pm | #

 

Dont worry Yups, you will never see these. Mallorys Folly Trolley will never be built, we will see to that. This is a promise. 65% of the people do not want the trolley built, and we will make sure their voices are heard. You only won the election because of the misleading ballot language plus all of union thugs turning out to vote to keep their plush benefits. Lets see if you keep popping those champagne corks when we stop this boondoggle.

 

Mark Miller sounds like a pleasant guy to be around

 

Yups, huh. My guess is that if you averaged the ages of Mallory, Dohoney, Michael Moore, Chris Eilerman, the co-chairs of "No of 48", the lead engineers and architects for the Cincinnati Streetcar, plus the Council members who have consistently voted for the project -- it would be about 50 -52 years old or so. But I guess they were all Yuppies once if that makes the COAST clown feel better.

 

I'm glad that 50-somethings are still thinking about the future here.

I'd recommend not copying their quotes from one comment thread to another.  You're just giving more exposure to their ludicrous declarations.

Is Skoda  the most popular/efficient?  What does Tacoma/Seattle have?

What are the other popular types around?  There's some pretty cool options

Are there any steampunk designs?

Is Skoda  the most popular/efficient?  What does Tacoma/Seattle have?

What are the other popular types around?  There's some pretty cool options

Are there any steampunk designs?

 

The shelter looks great!

 

Speaking of the cars, where will the storage/maintenance building be? Will it be a new building or a reused industrial building in OTR?

 

Not sure if anyone answered you already-- but the maintenance yard is going to be between Elm & Race on Henry.  I'm not sure what side of the street.

For its next act, COAST will probably blame the failure of the charter amendments on Marvin The Martian....

 

 

You never know what COAST will pull out of Uranus!

The shelter looks great!

 

Speaking of the cars, where will the storage/maintenance building be? Will it be a new building or a reused industrial building in OTR?

 

Not sure if anyone answered you already-- but the maintenance yard is going to be between Elm & Race on Henry.  I'm not sure what side of the street.

 

Thanks for the reply. That seems like a logical spot. I look forward to following the construction with all of you!

For its next act, COAST will probably blame the failure of the charter amendments on Marvin The Martian....

 

 

You never know what COAST will pull out of Uranus!

 

COAST needs a U-235 modulator...it's also called a brain...

Haven't seen this discussed in a while but why exactly is the streetcar being built up to Henry rather than stopping at Findlay Street?  Are the car barns going to be off Henry at the old Moerlein site?  Do they have a space yet for the car barns?

Haven't seen this discussed in a while but why exactly is the streetcar being built up to Henry rather than stopping at Findlay Street?  Are the car barns going to be off Henry at the old Moerlein site?  Do they have a space yet for the car barns?

 

Scroll to four messages earlier.

Today's anti-streetcar letter (I can't remember the last one by someone who actually lived inside city limits):

 

 

Spend streetcar money on fixing potholes

12/21/11 at 8:23am

•Written by Letters Editor •1Comments •Raise Your Voice

 

Why are Cincinnati officials spending millions on this streetcar project when our streets are in bad need of repairs? It seems like the traffic is getting worse and more people are driving, but not on the route where they plan to run the streetcars. Take a look at Route 50, especially by Saylor Park, where there are terrible potholes. I don’t understand their priorities at all.

 

Ethel Owens

 

Harrison

 

 

Are Route 50's potholes really even Cincinnati's responsibility?

>Are Route 50's potholes really even Cincinnati's responsibility?

 

No. U.S. and state routes are maintained by state DOT's with state and federal gasoline taxes. 

 

 

>And you can't read. he is a registered Professional Engineer (Mechanical I assume)

 

 

The word is he's only sporatically employed as an engineer, but gets a $5 weekly allowance from Finney.  Stephan Louis, meanwhile, advertises himself as a "medical devices salesman" but is in fact a handyman and pizza deliveryman.

 

 

 

>Are Route 50's potholes really even Cincinnati's responsibility?

 

No. U.S. and state routes are maintained by state DOT's with state and federal gasoline taxes. 

 

 

US and State routes are maintained within cities and villages by the municipality, Cinti is one of them. ODOT may contribute portions of the funding.  This outta bore you all:

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Legislative/Documents/ODOT%20REPORT%20-%20Maintenance%20of%20Municipal%20Routes%203-11-11.pdf

 

In summary, the home rule amendment of 1912 did not really change the nature of municipal power over roads and streets. Prior to 1912, roads and streets were considered matters of local concern. After 1912, roads and streets within a municipality remained a matter of local concern. Home rule only confirmed this fact. At the time of the creation of the State Highway Department, now known as ODOT, the General Assembly carefully crafted a set of duties for the department which did not include the duty to construct or maintain roads within a municipality. Once a state highway system was established and the State roads became interconnected, passing through municipalities, the General Assembly very specifically delineated, qualified, and limited the duties of the Director as they related to any roads in and through a municipality.

While it appears that some of the exceptions may cause confusion, the fact remains that ODOT can only perform those duties statutorily granted to it by the General Assembly. Whether or not a road within a municipal corporation has been designated as part of the state highway system does not determine whose statutory responsibility it is to maintain and repair that road. The General Assembly, with the support of the Home Rule amendment of the Ohio Constitution, has made that determination. Clearly, the legislature has not extended the duty to maintain the interstate highway system within a municipality to any other federal-aid routes, United State Routes, or other state routes within a municipal corporation. The duty of construction, reconstruction, maintenance and repair of such routes remains the responsibility of the municipal corporations.

 

With the current legislative authority, ODOT is responsible for the construction, reconstruction and maintenance of all Interstate Routes and all non-incorporated U.S. Routes and State Routes. Additionally, ODOT is responsible for snow and ice removal and minor routine maintenance for various routes within villages (municipalities with population under 5,000) where a consent ordinance has been established. ODOT is also responsible for the construction, reconstruction, major maintenance and repair, and operation of all bridges located on the state highway system, while routine bridge maintenance falls upon the municipality.

Personal attacks advance our position nothing and really don't help anyone.

^that's my point

>US and State routes are maintained within cities and villages by the municipality, Cinti is one of them. ODOT may contribute portions of the funding.

 

Municipalities definitly receive some if not all of the funding for maintenance of US and state routes from the DOT's.  A friend of mine from high school who is mayor of a small Hamilton County city that shall remain nameless tells me how frustrating it is explaining to residents that _________ Ave. needs to deteriorate to a certain level before the state will pay for its resurfacing.  So he gets blamed for the potholes all day long and people think he's lying and pocketing the money when he tells them the truth. 

 

Since MSD is germane to the streetcar topic, I thought this breaking news might be of interest:

 

County shocks sewer agency, orders cuts

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20111221/NEWS010801/312210161/

 

"Hamilton County commissioners today voted to increase sewer rates 8 percent in 2012 - but in a surprise move they ordered the Metropolitan Sewer District to slash 10 percent from its budget."

^Sure Kid Monzel will pin it on Cincinnati/streetcar

Moderator Note

 

As fun and as deserved as it may be, please don't bring Mark Miller's (or any other COASTer's) personal shenanigans into the Streetcar thread. It's off-topic and it's preaching to the choir. Thank you.

Personal attacks advance our position nothing and really don't help anyone.

 

Exactly. Suspensions will be issued for anyone who doesn't get this message.

I agree.  There's a place to discuss Miller's financial disability.  It's called a bar, private e-mail, topical blog, Google hangout, or a deftly constructed listserv.  Or, one could seek to discredit him in the Court of Public Opinion.  Here, it doesn't serve much purpose.

 

I agree that COAST needs to be held to account, but this just isn't the place.  Says your absentee moderator who is getting a bunch of e-mails....

Effort spent on witch hunts should be redirected to telling others the benefits of enhanced public transit and walkability.

Cost of streetcar sewer relocation work rising

Business Courier by Dan Monk, Senior Staff Reporter

 

The price tag has risen on sewer relocation work required by Cincinnati’s streetcar project.

 

Internal cost estimates obtained by the Business Courier show the Metropolitan Sewer District of Greater Cincinnati now expects the work to cost $7.9 million. That’s 31 percent higher than the $6 million figure that’s been used since last summer by city officials and MSD leadership.

 

City spokeswoman Meg Olberding said the $6 million figure was based on a consultant’s analysis on the asset value of MSD’s underground infrastructure and a replacement value based on each asset’s remaining useful life. The latest cost estimate, circulated among MSD officials in early December, is a construction estimate for sanitary and storm sewers that are proposed as part of the streetcar’s latest engineering specs, which were completed in October.

 

Cont

COAST made a facebook page so they can return to trolling news articles like this one.

 

Except when you visit their page, the only people who post on their wall are making fun of them.

Cost of streetcar sewer relocation work rising

Business Courier by Dan Monk, Senior Staff Reporter

 

The price tag has risen on sewer relocation work required by Cincinnati’s streetcar project.

 

Internal cost estimates obtained by the Business Courier show the Metropolitan Sewer District of Greater Cincinnati now expects the work to cost $7.9 million. That’s 31 percent higher than the $6 million figure that’s been used since last summer by city officials and MSD leadership.

 

City spokeswoman Meg Olberding said the $6 million figure was based on a consultant’s analysis on the asset value of MSD’s underground infrastructure and a replacement value based on each asset’s remaining useful life. The latest cost estimate, circulated among MSD officials in early December, is a construction estimate for sanitary and storm sewers that are proposed as part of the streetcar’s latest engineering specs, which were completed in October.

 

Cont

 

 

So where does the project stands vis-à-vis the sewers? I've read speculation that the City will simply relocate the manholes and place the track over the existing sewers thanks to the County Commissioners intransigence on working with the City, and they will tell MSD to deal with it.

COAST made a facebook page so they can return to trolling news articles like this one.

 

Except when you visit their page, the only people who post on their wall are making fun of them.

 

I noticed that too!  Feel free to add your two cents to their site.  :evil:

COAST made a facebook page so they can return to trolling news articles like this one.

 

Except when you visit their page, the only people who post on their wall are making fun of them.

 

That page has been around for quite some time. Some photos on the page date to February 2009 - they just have that few followers.

Probably not that many 'net genners among their ranks.

Returning from a topic earlier this week, I DO think that it is not just ethical, but necessary to discuss the biographical details of these men's lives. The media gives them their power by presenting them as Joe the Plumbers, when in fact they are classic conmen.  On Friday The New York Times included an anecdote about Facebook postings of a Tea Party mayor in Michigan:

 

Click here for a large version, where the quote is clearly visible (third column, highlighted):

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/2011-nytimes_troytransitcenter.jpg

 

 

Future descriptions of the Tea Party era must include these sorts of anecdotes if they are to be useful.  1905's Bossism in Cincinnati, one of the most important local history books, gives detailed descriptions of Boss Cox and his scumbag ward bosses, without which it would be difficult to picture how they held such a tight grip on city hall. 

 

 

Janice Daniels: You're a huge bitch.

Returning from a topic earlier this week, I DO think that it is not just ethical, but necessary to discuss the biographical details of these men's lives. The media gives them their power by presenting them as Joe the Plumbers, when in fact they are classic conmen.  On Friday The New York Times included an anecdote about Facebook postings of a Tea Party mayor in Michigan:

 

Click here for a large version, where the quote is clearly visible (third column, highlighted):

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/jmecklenborg/Cincinnati%20Monocle/2011-nytimes_troytransitcenter.jpg

 

 

Future descriptions of the Tea Party era must include these sorts of anecdotes if they are to be useful.  1905's Bossism in Cincinnati, one of the most important local history books, gives detailed descriptions of Boss Cox and his scumbag ward bosses, without which it would be difficult to picture how they held such a tight grip on city hall.

 

Amen Jake. This is not a witch hunt. Telling the truth (as documented by public records) about your opponents is not an ad hominem attack.

 

To give you an idea of the lack of character that the COASTers exhibit, yesterday a 2 year old baby was tragically killed in a fire in Westwood. This is the first in a series of disgusting tweets that Mark Miller has sent since the fire was reported:

 

@GOCOAST

 

How many more kids have to die before Cincinnati quits filling budget holes with Fire Dept brownouts? Enjoy your streetcar boondoggle.

 

22 Dec via HootSuite

 

 

 

@GOCOAST

 

12.5% of CFD browned out AGAIN. Will a child die in West End, Oakley, Corryville, Price Hill or Northside today? Enjoy your bloody streetcar

 

22 Dec via HootSuite

 

Mark Miller is using a baby's death in order to try and score political points. Worse yet, his tweets are a lie; the Westwood engine company was NOT browned out that day. In fact, there has not been a hint or suggestion that there was a delayed response time to this fire by anyone other than Mark Miller. The opposition to our streetcar and other transportation and infrastructure programs are fanatics who will stoop to any level necessary to defeat this City's progress. When they lose at the ballot box they will sue. COAST will intimidate their political opponents into silence via the 'justice system' (as they are in the process of doing to CincyPac, which I wrote about earlier. A notable Pulitzer Prize nominated journalist is currently working on an article documenting COAST's harassment of CincyPac and their attempts to silence that organization and it's leaders via the court system). If we try and play nice with these guys and 'take the high road' we will lose. These right wing extremists must be exposed for the conmen, shysters and sociopaths that they are at each and every possible opportunity.

^Yeah, I'm wondering when a national publication will write something about COAST, since apparently nobody local will, sans CityBeat.  I'm certainly not aware of a group so nasty anywhere else in the country. 

Funding foils N.Ky. streetcar notion

 

The idea of having streetcars in Northern Kentucky has surfaced once again, exactly 10 years after the last time officials here gave it serious thought.

 

An $11 million grant was announced last week that will allow Cincinnati’s streetcar to come as close to Covington and Newport as the Banks development on the other side of the Ohio River. The day of the announcement, Cincinnati’s retiring economic development officer told the Covington Business Council in an unrelated meeting that he could envision the streetcar extending into Northern Kentucky within about five years.

 

“I would guess five years is not unrealistic to at least get the first leg of it, where it’s going to connect to whatever central point is decided,” Ewing said in a luncheon speech.

 

While that five-year timeline sounds overly optimistic, the idea itself is one that’s worth revisiting for streetcar advocates. The return of the trolleys would benefit cities here and spur development in their downtown areas, which were built before automobiles were invented, said Covington City Manager Larry Klein.

 

Cont

Funding foils N.Ky. streetcar notion

 

The idea of having streetcars in Northern Kentucky has surfaced once again, exactly 10 years after the last time officials here gave it serious thought.

 

An $11 million grant was announced last week that will allow Cincinnati’s streetcar to come as close to Covington and Newport as the Banks development on the other side of the Ohio River. The day of the announcement, Cincinnati’s retiring economic development officer told the Covington Business Council in an unrelated meeting that he could envision the streetcar extending into Northern Kentucky within about five years.

 

“I would guess five years is not unrealistic to at least get the first leg of it, where it’s going to connect to whatever central point is decided,” Ewing said in a luncheon speech.

 

While that five-year timeline sounds overly optimistic, the idea itself is one that’s worth revisiting for streetcar advocates. The return of the trolleys would benefit cities here and spur development in their downtown areas, which were built before automobiles were invented, said Covington City Manager Larry Klein.

 

Cont

 

Now that Cincinnati's streetcar is a done deal the Enquirer is going to try and stir up controversy by preemptively writing anti-streetcar articles about NKY. I'm surprised that they didn't have Barry Horstman write that article, as he's their go-to streetcar hitman.

^ The thing that stuck out to me in the article is how little the public actually knows about rail transit. In the article, the City Manager from Covington thinks that what Cincinnati is building is a cable car or trolley system. This is coming from a possible advocate for rail transit! This illustrates just how much the general public needs to be educated about mass transit. The knowledge gap is the size of a canyon.

^ They know more than they are saying.

Great interview John!

 

Streetcar's No. 1 advocate

 

Written by

Barry M. Horstman

 

If anyone deserves to be called the father of the Cincinnati streetcar, it’s John Schneider.

 

Perhaps more than anyone else, Schneider, a longtime Downtown businessman who lives along the streetcar’s planned route, has kept the $105 million-plus project on the front burner at City Hall and in influential social and civic circles throughout Cincinnati for the past decade.

 

Since 2001, he has led more than two dozen delegations to Portland, Ore., traveling at his own expense to expose more than 400 of Cincinnati’s political and business leaders to what is widely regarded as the gold standard in American streetcar systems.

 

If they were not already true believers when they headed west, most returned confident that Cincinnati could emulate Portland’s success story.

Well done, sir!