January 6, 201213 yr Eighth and State still believes the Streetcar wont actually happen. It may or may not happen, but now I think it's a lot more likely than I used to think. This junk is not going to stop even after construction starts. Whats amazing to me is that there is still a possibility that after 2 referendums, 2 city council elections, and 1 mayor vote, this thing could still be stopped by a tiny fringe group based outside city limits But it really is time to move some dirt. Even if its just a rock moved, start doing something. Construction just has been delayed and delayed and delayed for years now playing right into COAST's gameplan. The more construction waits, the greater the chances of costs going up, opponents coming up with something else (another ballot initiative), and so on. I don't think it will be stopped by a tiny fringe group. If it is stopped at all, it will more likely be for lack of funds or political will to fund it. COAST and their antics are just a sideshow. Construction hasn't been delayed. We haven't even gotten to construction yet. What has really been delayed is funding, and maybe design.
January 6, 201213 yr >What has really been delayed is funding, and maybe design. I don't understand how you can make these statements, having read this thread every day for the past 5 years, the last 2 of which the poject has been fully funded. >I don't think it will be stopped by a tiny fringe group It has been delayed, entirely, by a tiny fringe group. Where, physically, are all of these supposed opponents? They've never been seen in a group larger than 15 strong (and often no more than 3 or 4) for the pat 5 years of opposing this project. If Chris Finney had never been born, the streetcar would be runing by now.
January 7, 201213 yr I simply refuse to believe that having witnessed the County Commissioner's intransigence on MSD and knowing Frivolous Finney all too well, the City Solicitor and his staff has not researched the legalities of building the system vis-à-vis the utilities, the City's right of easements, etc etc etc. Finney's lawsuit threats are just a stall tactic, he hopes that there will be a change of administrations, council that will be anti-streetcar and kill the project.
January 7, 201213 yr If contracts are signed and funds are allocated, the timing of a photo-op doesn't seem like it will change anything. It's not going to change Finney's opportunities to get an injunction, the only thing that matters is the equity judge and the merits of his argument. The longer this project is delayed, the more public opinion of it will worsen. Think back to before The Banks was under construction; that project eventually got to the point where even supporters weren't sure if it would ever really happen. If we can get some rail in the ground, it will only serve to make COAST's continued antics look more ridiculous and wasteful. If somebody gave me $35.9 million I'd probably be cool with doing things on his schedule. I see your point, but it's not like the guy scratched off a check from his personal account. He was doing his job. I'm grateful that Cincinnati got the grant, but we've got to get moving. We can't let another opportunity for passenger rail in this city slip through our fingers.
January 7, 201213 yr >What has really been delayed is funding, and maybe design. I don't understand how you can make these statements, having read this thread every day for the past 5 years, the last 2 of which the poject has been fully funded. If there is something going on behind the scenes that I am not aware of, I apologize. I get my information fron this site and from the media. What I am looking for is a line item in the city budget for construction of the streetcar, not a promise of funds from an outside source that may or may not materialize. Furthermore, the funding should be for the entire project, including all the required utility work, because demanding that the utilities spend their own money will only work if they have the money and are willing to share. The funding should inlcude a plan for operating costs, whether it be farebox or some other source. I consider casino money risky because it is not guaranteed. For those who don't know, it is common for grants to come with time limits. For example, a grant may stipulate that construction has to occur between 2012 and 2014; otherwise, the grant is retracted and the funding will go to a different project. If there is more than one grant, then they all have to be coordinated. This makes project scheduling all that much more important, because a delay could result in a loss of funding. It is much less risky to have the cash on hand. That said, I used to think that the streetcar was just another dream project that probably will never get built. Now, I think it has a much greater chance. I would not be surprised, though, if it doesn't actually open until 2017.
January 7, 201213 yr >What has really been delayed is funding, and maybe design. I don't understand how you can make these statements, having read this thread every day for the past 5 years, the last 2 of which the poject has been fully funded. If there is something going on behind the scenes that I am not aware of, I apologize. I get my information fron this site and from the media. What I am looking for is a line item in the city budget for construction of the streetcar, not a promise of funds from an outside source that may or may not materialize. Furthermore, the funding should be for the entire project, including all the required utility work, because demanding that the utilities spend their own money will only work if they have the money and are willing to share. The funding should inlcude a plan for operating costs, whether it be farebox or some other source. I consider casino money risky because it is not guaranteed. For those who don't know, it is common for grants to come with time limits. For example, a grant may stipulate that construction has to occur between 2012 and 2014; otherwise, the grant is retracted and the funding will go to a different project. If there is more than one grant, then they all have to be coordinated. This makes project scheduling all that much more important, because a delay could result in a loss of funding. It is much less risky to have the cash on hand. That said, I used to think that the streetcar was just another dream project that probably will never get built. Now, I think it has a much greater chance. I would not be surprised, though, if it doesn't actually open until 2017. Someone is playing the part of Concern Troll again.
January 7, 201213 yr This week's letters: Domestic partners do not deserve benefits 01/06/12 at 11:57am by Letters Editor | 11 Comments [no link provided] Randy Vandegrift Maineville Bilingual signs a waste of taxpayer money 01/05/12 at 11:58am by Letters Editor | 5 Comments [no link provided] Paul Schwan Fairfield I don't think this one was actually printed: Visiting Houston for playoffs? Ride their streetcar 01/04/12 at 11:47am by Letters Editor | 0 Comments [no link provided] Dean Carroll Arlington Heights Thoughts and opinions don’t provide food 01/04/12 at 8:57am by Letters Editor | 1 Comments [no link provided] Mike Thornbury White Oak Streetcar stops need graffiti protection 12/30/11 at 8:50am by Letters Editor | 3 Comments [no link provided] Jeff Lewis Forest Park
January 7, 201213 yr I actually laughed at the first one. Unbelievable. That first one is absolutely asinine... its sad that people still think like that in the 21st century.
January 7, 201213 yr What disgusts me the most, is that the Enquirer would NEVER post an article that said anything about the taking away the rights of african americans, or a letter if someone said "african americans are 40-50 percent more likely to get ______ disease) etc. But they allow that speech since it's about gays, and they think that's religious expression or some crap. I also love that that person is leaving the County because the city is building a streetcar and offering partner benefits.
January 7, 201213 yr What disgusts me the most, is that the Enquirer would NEVER post an article that said anything about the taking away the rights of african americans, or a letter if someone said "african americans are 40-50 percent more likely to get ______ disease) etc. But they allow that speech since it's about gays, and they think that's religious expression or some crap. I also love that that person is leaving the County because the city is building a streetcar and offering partner benefits. Straight people benefit, as well.... but that's neither here nor there for the purpose of this conversation. Does anyone ever reply to these anti-streetcar editorials? Do they ever get published?
January 7, 201213 yr I wonder when the guy who wrote the first letter "made the good choice" to be straight.
January 7, 201213 yr Notice how the haters writing those letters complaining about Cincinnati don't even live in the City?
January 8, 201213 yr The longer this project is delayed, the more public opinion of it will worsen. Think back to before The Banks was under construction; that project eventually got to the point where even supporters weren't sure if it would ever really happen. If we can get some rail in the ground, it will only serve to make COAST's continued antics look more ridiculous and wasteful. I guess I just don't put as much stock in the content of that article. It seems to me that all the other stuff that goes into building the system is more important than LaHood's presence at the groundbreaking. The reason I mentioned the silliness of the Burke quote was because I thought it demonstrated the sloppiness of the article. The author wanted a counterbalancing quote, yet he couldn't be bothered to get one from a knowledgeable source. He basically quotes Burke saying that this issue isn't Burke's area of expertise. I also think the streetcar seems to have gained support over time, so I don't share your concern over that. The weakness of this last vote versus the previous one shows the lack of support the project has had in the African-American community, which is a problem that Streetcar supporters never really seemed to be able to address. The real issues with the delays is the potential that changes in political leadership can cause to the project, as we saw with Kasich's election.
January 8, 201213 yr Ground-breaking ceremonies for infrastructure projects often are held after actual construction starts. The city doesn't need LaHood's presence to start working on the streetcar, but it might be better if the work was started quietly so that it seems like work started after LaHood's arrival. Also, while I am no attorney, I seem to recall there is a legal benefit to starting construction when others are scheming to stop it. It's one of those "possession is 9/10ths of the law" things, but I wouldn't know where to look for the language in the Ohio Revised Code or U.S. Code. Perhaps Mr. Finney could look it up for us. :-P "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 8, 201213 yr Based on demographics, the writer of that first letter to the editor will likely die sooner rather than later, and the world will be a better place for it. On topic, what is the target date for groundbreaking? LaHood or no LaHood.
January 8, 201213 yr Does anyone ever reply to these anti-streetcar editorials? Do they ever get published? I have written in many times. Once they published my full letter online but printed only two sentences of it in The Morning After.
January 9, 201213 yr Booted city councilwoman Amy Murray was on 550 this morning STILL complaining about the streetcar, THEN argued AGAINST multilingual signs downtown because "There will be 30 languages spoken at the world choir games and they only have room for six on the signs". But the real insinuation was that these signs would allow immigrants to avoid learning English.
January 9, 201213 yr ^Off topic, but what languares ARE going on the signs? I had assumed English and Spanish. Will there be more?
January 9, 201213 yr Spanish? I would assume German. While we are at it, can we bring back the original street names to OTR?
January 9, 201213 yr Spanish? I would assume German. While we are at it, can we bring back the original street names to OTR? I don't see the sense in erasing more history. There are signs that say "Formerly Bremen Street" etc down there though. I would appreciate seeing those more places.
January 9, 201213 yr Author Probably the easiest way to do it is to make the old names the honorary designations (for example like how part of Elm is Eric Kunzel Way)
January 9, 201213 yr Spanish? I would assume German. Hoping to seeing Japanese or Korean, just because I think it would be cool. While we are at it, can we bring back the original street names to OTR? AMEN! I'd love to see these unfortunate changes undone.
January 9, 201213 yr Does anyone ever reply to these anti-streetcar editorials? Do they ever get published? I responded to a guy from Butler county who was spouting conspiracy crap about ownership of the properties along the streetcar route. I pointed out there were hundreds of properties and owners. It was not published online, doubt if it got printed. Shortly after that they posted the article about the "number 1 streetcar proponent" (John S.) and pointe4d out he owns property in that area. cue up the X-Files theme.....
January 9, 201213 yr All my letters were denied(3 in all)... Instead, they printed this letter one week: Streetcar is a Communist Idea http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/05/09/streetcar-is-a-communist-idea/
January 9, 201213 yr All my letters were denied(3 in all)... Instead, they printed Like this one week: Streetcar is a Communist Idea http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/05/09/streetcar-is-a-communist-idea/ Or one of the hundreds of 'Why don't we paint a bus to look like a trolley' ones EDIT: Accidentally created a new post
January 9, 201213 yr Someone should start a site called "Letters supporting the streetcar the Enquirer refused to print." “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
January 9, 201213 yr Anyone know if all the jack hammering Duke Energy is doing (right now as I'm trying to work) on Walnut between 4th and 5th has anything to do with the streetcar utility moves? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
January 9, 201213 yr Anyone know if all the jack hammering Duke Energy is doing (right now as I'm trying to work) on Walnut between 4th and 5th has anything to do with the streetcar utility moves? Ooh, sounds like music! (To me, as I don't have to actually listen to it. ;-)
January 9, 201213 yr Someone should start a site called "Letters supporting the streetcar the Enquirer refused to print." I'd be willing to do that. Not necessarily its own site, but I'd be happy to throw them on QC/D once it's back up and running next week. If anyone's interested, shoot me a private message or email me: queencitydisco[at]gmail.com
January 9, 201213 yr All my letters were denied(3 in all)... Instead, they printed this letter one week: Streetcar is a Communist Idea 'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system. Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen' Clive Johnson Franklin http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/05/09/streetcar-is-a-communist-idea/ Haha... thats the biggest bunch of pyschobabble nonsense.... our "forefathers" DID do this many times over. With this logic, the interstate system is communist... or how about ending slavery? Sounds communist to me. Breaking away from England? Communist. Communist is such an overused scare word that it means far less today than it even did in the 50s when we were busy dismantling our first commie streetcar. What does Clive Johnson from Franklin's opinion on a city issue even matter anyway, Gannett?
January 10, 201213 yr All my letters were denied(3 in all)... Instead, they printed this letter one week: Streetcar is a Communist Idea 'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system. Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen' Clive Johnson Franklin http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/05/09/streetcar-is-a-communist-idea/ Who wants to be the first streetcar commissar??? :-P
January 10, 201213 yr All my letters were denied(3 in all)... Instead, they printed this letter one week: Streetcar is a Communist Idea 'Throughout this nation’s great history, we have fought many evil forces. The Axis powers in he 40′s, The USSR during the Cold War, The terrorists as of late. In Cincinnati, there is a new battle of good vs evil. That is why I am shocked that many in Cincinnati want to emulate the USSR and build a communist streetcar system. Do not let this monstrosity be built. Our forefathers wouldn’t let it happen' Clive Johnson Franklin http://cincinnati.com/blogs/letters/2011/05/09/streetcar-is-a-communist-idea/ Who wants to be the first streetcar commissar??? :-P I wonder if COAST has found out about our evil plot to insert streetcars into downtown Cincinnati in an effort end capitalism in the western world. I think Mark Miller found out about our Manchurian Candidate computer chips inserted into all of us by the Chinese.
January 10, 201213 yr On TV news they always used to show cheap-looking Soviet cars and announce that citizens had to wait 10 years for a car. So during the cold war the car was a symbol of prosperity and "freedom". Also, they always used to show the bicycle-filled streets of China. These images are so firmly ingrained into the WWII generation and most baby boomers that it's impossible for them to understand why younger people don't care so much about cars. Reagan tells a Soviet joke One of the primary goals of communism, as envisioned by its earliest champions of the late 19th century, was to mitigate the booms and crashes of capitalist economies. With state ownership of industry, there could be no insider trading, the swindling of naive investors would be eliminated, and there could also be no personal debt.
January 10, 201213 yr I remember seeing that letter when it was printed, back in May. I thought it was a joke then, and I think it's a joke now. The writer was making a caricature of anti-streetcar folks, and the Enquirer was in on it, too. They thought it was funny, so they published it. Everyone's in on the joke but you guys who are taking it seriously.
January 10, 201213 yr Author A streetcar update from the inimitable P. Casey Coston- http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/011012streetcarcando.aspx
January 10, 201213 yr GREAT editorial. Can't wait to hear who they selected to manufacture the cars. Personally hoping for Siemens', as they look more akin to light rail vehicles and much sleeker than the Skoda cars. Anyone have any idea if they'll do advertising wraps on the cars like they've done with Metro busses?
January 10, 201213 yr Author GREAT editorial. Can't wait to hear who they selected to manufacture the cars. Personally hoping for Siemens', as they look more akin to light rail vehicles and much sleeker than the Skoda cars. Agree but I have the feeling they won't Anyone have any idea if they'll do advertising wraps on the cars like they've done with Metro busses? God I hope not. The only wrapped rail vehicle I've ever seen is the people mover and it looks garish
January 10, 201213 yr Wraps can make it hard to see out the windows, which not only makes the ride less pleasant but is also bad for businesses along the line.
January 10, 201213 yr God I hope not. The only wrapped rail vehicle I've ever seen is the people mover and it looks garish That wasn't the wrap, that's just Detroit. *rimshot* Thomasbw, any speculation on which cars you think they'll pick?
January 10, 201213 yr Author God I hope not. The only wrapped rail vehicle I've ever seen is the people mover and it looks garish That wasn't the wrap, that's just Detroit. *rimshot* Thomasbw, any speculation on which cars you think they'll pick? It would just be idle speculation.
January 11, 201213 yr On Coast's website they are touting a graph about the schedule of the streetcar. One of their complaints is that it was 'behind schedule'....Hmmm...I wonder why.... Naturally they are complaining about the costs 'rising' from presumably the delays that they themselves caused EDIT: Sorry for the font size. I was experimenting with shrinking that fringe groups name and it ended in disaster
January 11, 201213 yr ^Streetcar is set to happen. As for future extensions? We'll have to wait and see. - Light Rail, I don't think we'll be able to push for that until the economy recovers (if a tax raise is needed) and the streetcar has been built and proves itself to be successful. - Commuter Rail, from what the officials say: Oasis Line commuter in the Eastern Corridor may happen. From what other have said: it's a sham by ODOT. - High Speed Rail, I don't see that happening in a long time. Aside from Acela on the left and right coasts, are any other high speed lines being built in the US?
Create an account or sign in to comment