Yeah, I checked to see if he was real.  My point is that normal letter writers aren't coining phrases that they hope talk radio will pick up.  That "crack train" moniker came out of nowhere, and has some real danger of sticking if it gathers any talk radio moss. 

I thought the completely out of the blue "Underground Atlanta" reference was equally troubling.

I thought the completely out of the blue "Underground Atlanta" reference was equally troubling.

 

At least this indicates the writer knows something about anything, which is more than I can say about nearly all the other antistreetcar letters printed.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's the deal with underground Atlanta?

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what's the deal with underground Atlanta?

 

Wikipedia holds the knowledge you seek.

Yeah, I checked to see if he was real.  My point is that normal letter writers aren't coining phrases that they hope talk radio will pick up.  That "crack train" moniker came out of nowhere, and has some real danger of sticking if it gathers any talk radio moss. 

 

I welcome such offensive references. The more offensive, the better, as at some point it will galvanize people in the city (which he is not) to stop putting up with offensive shit coming from suburban mouths. Enough "crack" this and "ghetto" that and the Cincinnatians who live in the city by choice will quickly tire of such ideas. Suburbanites can't vote down the streetcar project, much as they would like to.

That's crazy, I've never heard of such a place, where's my lawyer?

 

Sorry JJ!  I didn't put two and two together!  Awesome site though

 

By the way, anyone else notice that the Enquirer scrubbed the mostly anti-Smitherman comment section clean from the "Letter: Smitherman has conflict" article?

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict

 

The enquirer is routinely scrubbing comments from it's articles overnight, especially if it's a controversial topic.

That's crazy, I've never heard of such a place, where's my lawyer?

 

Sorry JJ!  I didn't put two and two together!  Awesome site though

 

By the way, anyone else notice that the Enquirer scrubbed the mostly anti-Smitherman comment section clean from the "Letter: Smitherman has conflict" article?

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20120120/NEWS0108/301200126/Letter-Smitherman-has-conflict

 

The enquirer is routinely scrubbing comments from it's articles overnight, especially if it's a controversial topic.

 

Your comment that you wrote last night along with others on the Obama speech was erased by this morning

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

  And the comments that were posted Monday  are still there.  So your point is?

I was told Smitherman was on the radio again promoting his Anti-streetcar meeting this Friday @ 2.  I'm surprised cincinnatians for progress isn't doing anything to get people to City Hall

I was told Smitherman was on the radio again promoting his Anti-streetcar meeting this Friday @ 2.  I'm surprised cincinnatians for progress isn't doing anything to get people to City Hall

 

Thank you.  I noted it in my 700wlw anti-streetcar statistics

 

We have to help get the word out.  Another Chris Smitherman meltdown will be entertaining

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

  And the comments that were posted Monday  are still there.  So your point is?

 

Then complain: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=contact. I'm sure that by constantly complaining on UO, that things will surely change on the Enquirer, a site that people hate with a passion yet love to comment and contribute to it.

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

  And the comments that were posted Monday  are still there.  So your point is?

 

Then complain: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=contact. I'm sure that by constantly complaining on UO, that things will surely change on the Enquirer, a site that people hate with a passion yet love to comment and contribute to it.

 

I sent an email to the editor last week just asking for an explanation. As I said before, I suspect it is a technical rather than conspiratorial issue. That said, however, your prior explanation, as well as follow up "fishing" post this morning, apparently had some holes. Just sayin'. No need to get overly defensive.

From Sunday...another ghost-written letter.  The anecdote about the stimulus bill, then the "crack train" sounds it's coming right from Kasich's soundbite writers:

 

 

Unsuccessful streetcars are early warning sign

01/23/12 at 8:22am by Letters Editor  |  3 Comments

 

 

About two years ago, hidden in an Enquirer middle-page article about federal stimulus spending, it was noted that over $20 million was being given to Portland, Ore. for maintenance on the streetcar system. The leading streetcar city apparently was unable to pay for maintenance. If citizens listen carefully to the tracks they can hear the tax train coming.

 

Additionally, do we have plans to prevent the streetcar system from becoming a crack train from Over-the-Rhine to the Banks district resulting in the same tragic result as Underground Atlanta and the Indianapolis Overhead entertainment districts?

 

Dan Handley

 

Union Township

 

This is letter is untrue. I've been going to Portland 2-4 times a year since the streetcar opened, and there has been no major repair project, let alone one that would cost $20 million. I mean, think about it.

 

However, Portland, Maine was recently turned down for a $20 million Federal grant for repairs to the Downeaster inter-city rail line.

^I did some searching and couldn't find any evidence of that award either.  I assumed maybe it was a Tri-Met thing from the stimulus, but didn't see too much of that either.

 

Would it be worth writing Rick?

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

  And the comments that were posted Monday  are still there.  So your point is?

 

Then complain: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=contact. I'm sure that by constantly complaining on UO, that things will surely change on the Enquirer, a site that people hate with a passion yet love to comment and contribute to it.

 

I sent an email to the editor last week just asking for an explanation. As I said before, I suspect it is a technical rather than conspiratorial issue. That said, however, your prior explanation, as well as follow up "fishing" post this morning, apparently had some holes. Just sayin'. No need to get overly defensive.

 

Sorry Casey, it wasn't pointed at you. It was more general than anything. As much as people love to hate the local newspaper, I'm not sure that voicing the opinions here really help out. I did contact their IR staff last week over the Facebook issue, which they seemingly were not aware of the permanent link issue. I'm not sure they can do much about it though, since it's their content management software that is causing an issue - which is a Gannett problem. This happens at the Courier-Journal, too.

As much as people love to hate the local newspaper, I'm not sure that voicing the opinions here really help out.

 

 

It won't change the newspaper, true. But it sure does help therapeutically by venting! It's better than banging one's head again the wall or throwing something that you realize you should not have thrown until after it smashes into a hundred pieces. Then you realize that, in effect, some jackass you will never meet at a newspaper you cannot stand has just caused you to destroy something you care about or has caused you to inflict bruises on your forehead. Don't give them the satisfaction of succumbing to their mental telepathy. ;)

Not to get off topic, but the URL of the story changed overnight when the article was either updated or moved to yet another "permanent" link.

  And the comments that were posted Monday  are still there.  So your point is?

 

Then complain: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=contact. I'm sure that by constantly complaining on UO, that things will surely change on the Enquirer, a site that people hate with a passion yet love to comment and contribute to it.

 

I sent an email to the editor last week just asking for an explanation. As I said before, I suspect it is a technical rather than conspiratorial issue. That said, however, your prior explanation, as well as follow up "fishing" post this morning, apparently had some holes. Just sayin'. No need to get overly defensive.

 

Sorry Casey, it wasn't pointed at you. It was more general than anything. As much as people love to hate the local newspaper, I'm not sure that voicing the opinions here really help out. I did contact their IR staff last week over the Facebook issue, which they seemingly were not aware of the permanent link issue. I'm not sure they can do much about it though, since it's their content management software that is causing an issue - which is a Gannett problem. This happens at the Courier-Journal, too.

 

Right. An IT person (not at Enquirer) said something similar.  It really has to do with the incompetent platform on which they run their website.

Alright! Good talk! Now back to the streetcar...

 

Has CfP invited anyone to this anti streetcar hearing?

Yes how DARE we complain about the biased news coverage of this region's daily newspaper of record? The gall and temerity!

^No, you can do that all you want to here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3762.0.html

 

Please stay on the topic of the streetcar. Thanks!

 

Edit: I'm talking about the technical comments regarding the commenting on their website. Letter to the Editor & etc. pertaining to the streetcar are relevant and should be here. That is all.

^how is discussing the biased coverage of the streetcar by the region's only daily newspaper "off topic"?

The streetcar "controversy" is the media coverage.  We're five years into this and the public still doesn't know what's going on.  Not five months -- five years.  Hundreds of articles, hundreds of radio segments -- almost all of them loaded with garbage designed to confuse the public. 

The streetcar "controversy" is the media coverage.  We're five years into this and the public still doesn't know what's going on.  Not five months -- five years.  Hundreds of articles, hundreds of radio segments -- almost all of them loaded with garbage designed to confuse the public. 

 

Here's what happens in almost every community that builds its first rail project. Talk radio is vehemently opposed ... gee, why would they be so  opposed since most of their audience is in cars and so many of their commercials are highway-oriented? ... but I digress. Many elected officials are opposed. The wingnuts are, of course, opposed. The rest of the media fans the flames.

 

Then the project gets built -- these days almost always on time and on budget. The models are so conservative at estimating ridership that projections are often exceeded early-on. Success becomes self-evident, despite the Cassandras.

 

And then you know what? The opponents lose all credibility -- on rail, and by extension, on a lot of other things too. Some of the elected officials who staked their careers on opposing rail get turned out of office. I follow these elections around the country, and I can't name a single elected official whose career has advanced because of his or her opposition to rail.

 

The bottom line is, the Smithermans of the world are just digging a big hole they're going to have to live in for a long time. They are making a record they will regret. Happens almost everywhere.

 

 

 

I still think that taking the streetcar project into the political arena was a project risk, and the amount of energy expended on both sides is more than I ever thought possible.

 

By contrast, Queen City Metro started operating the big, articulated buses on some of the main routes, and there was hardly a peep from anyone, neither in the political arena nor the media. Most of the same arguments apply: people won't ride it, boondoggle, etc. The opponents might actually have been correct, since I think that every bus route loses money and must be supported by taxes. But Queen City Metro didn't publish feasibility studies, didn't make a political issue of it, and didn't flood the media including UO with lots of facts. They just started operating the buses, and hardly anyone noticed, especially anyone in the suburbs.

 

For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

The problem with that analogy is that no bulldozers were required to start running the articulated buses.

 

I still think that taking the streetcar project into the political arena was a project risk

 

It was a risk that couldn't be avoided. This a public project built in the public right-of-way, politics would've had to be involved regardless and the pro side has come out on top.

 

By contrast, Queen City Metro started operating the big, articulated buses on some of the main routes, and there was hardly a peep from anyone, neither in the political arena nor the media.

 

No offense, but I think that's a flawed comparison. Some new busses don't amount to the cost, scale and complexity of a project like this. There was media coverage, I can remember reading articles in the BC, Enquirer and on Urban Cincy. The Enquirer even had an article on the busses when they brought some from Chicago to test. We had busses already so there wasn't a whole lot of negativity about it.

 

Most of the same arguments apply: people won't ride it, boondoggle, etc

 

I've never seen these arguments applied to Metro or the articulated busses by the media.

 

The opponents might actually have been correct, since I think that every bus route loses money and must be supported by taxes.

 

Even if that's the case, I'd like to know a transit agency that reports a profit in the nation. Projects like these are not designed to generate shovelfuls of money. They provide a service, a service we pay for and the benefits of economic development and providing a service for the community often outweigh the cost.

 

But Queen City Metro didn't publish feasibility studies, didn't make a political issue of it, and didn't flood the media including UO with lots of facts. They just started operating the buses, and hardly anyone noticed, especially anyone in the suburbs.

 

Why wouldn't the streetcar planners do their homework and publish a feasbility study? Comparing the addition of articulated busses to building an upstart rail project is in no way comparable. I'm sure there was political controversy over Queen City Metro's founding during the Luken days.

 

For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

 

Completely disagree. Look at the coverage of the Brent Spence Bridge replacement (I seem to remember some  guy named "President Obama" giving a speech in front of it). The streetcar deserves media coverage as its a newsworthy item. Does it deserve the kind of coverage its been getting? As a journalism student and someone who's worked for a paper - I'd say that coverage has been poor, however it's getting this attention because it's a newsworthy subject, not because it was "made" into a political issue.

 

Come on.

I entirely agree with Emilio Estevez. That comparison is quite a stretch.

 

As a side note, there's no such thing as Queen City Metro. There is Metro, operated by SORTA, but that's it. Maybe that's a really old name I'm not familiar with?

 

Additionally, John, Any word on whether streetcar supporters have been notified to show up Friday?

Metro was Queen City Metro from 1973 up until a few years ago.  Every time you write an article that uses the phrase Queen City Metro, you get a corrective email from Queen Ci----- I mean Metro. 

I still think that taking the streetcar project into the political arena was a project risk, and the amount of energy expended on both sides is more than I ever thought possible.

 

By contrast, Queen City Metro started operating the big, articulated buses on some of the main routes, and there was hardly a peep from anyone, neither in the political arena nor the media. Most of the same arguments apply: people won't ride it, boondoggle, etc. The opponents might actually have been correct, since I think that every bus route loses money and must be supported by taxes. But Queen City Metro didn't publish feasibility studies, didn't make a political issue of it, and didn't flood the media including UO with lots of facts. They just started operating the buses, and hardly anyone noticed, especially anyone in the suburbs.

 

For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

 

Okay, this is just egregiously wrong.

 

First, comparing starting an infrastructure project (the entire streetcar network and all its attendant infrastructure) to upgrading major capital expenses in a previously existing organization (SORTA replacing old buses for newer buses that are also bigger and articulated) and then comparing the differing political fallout is absurd.  As JohnSchneider said above, and all the world can observe, one is widely recognized as starting something new.  The other isn't.

 

Second, the fight over who would pay for Metro when SORTA was created was just as big as this fight.  The organization was set up to have county wide reach and governance but the City was the largest funder of it because all attempts at creating a dedicated county-wide tax failed.  This has been described plenty of times on this thread.

 

Third, it's patently stupid to say a system that was designed to be funded through taxation is "losing money" and your conclusive proof that it is losing money is that it is being funded the way it was planned to be funded (and even though the county wide tax conceived at the inception didn't pass, at some point a new taxable funding source has been put into place.  Even then it was always planned to be funded through tax revenue).  Aside from fares and ad revenue, are you bothering to even think about calculating the tax revenue from other sources (the opportunity cost, e.g. payroll or property taxes) that may be lost if the bus system vanishes?

 

Finally, what on earth do you think politics is if it isn't making decisions about how to allocate limited resources?

 

Look, dude, you seem like a nice enough guy.  You certainly have larger reserves of good humor and patience than most people on this thread, since you take a lot of abuse and don't ever seem to give any back.  But I honestly don't see how anyone can think that you are arguing in good faith.

So apparently in 2012 Cinny will get 5 streetcars...

 

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/ra0112/#/52

I'm counting about 30-35 streetcars on order throughout the US next year.  But Toronto alone is ordering...189.

I'm counting about 30-35 streetcars on order throughout the US next year.  But Toronto alone is ordering...189.

 

Is Toronto still going to use the high floor variants?

So apparently in 2012 Cinny will get 5 streetcars...

 

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/sb/ra0112/#/52

 

I wonder if we'll end up getting six with the Banks/OTR loop.  The Gov't Sq/OTR was 5 and the Uptown to Banks was 7 if memory serves me correctly.

And it is now the Chris Smitherman Show:

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20120126/NEWS010801/301250165/Council-duo-feeling-dissed

 

http://downtown-mtauburn.fox19.com/news/news/84372-argument-brewing-city-council-over-special-meeting

 

Add to this appearances on 700wlw yesterday and presumably today as well as Smitherman/Winburn appearances on 55krc and off/on 3 hours worth of talk

^Geez.  How does this guy have time to head the local NAACP and serve on city council with all this radio work? 

 

Charlie Winburn, council’s lone Republican, and Christopher Smitherman, who won without a party endorsement, missed the council meeting because of “scheduling conflicts.”...      ...Smitherman couldn’t be reached about why he couldn’t come.

 

Oh wait, apparently he doesn't.  You'd think he'd at least be present if he wants to make an issue out of this.

They are convinced they will have a huge group there tomorrow. Has CfP sent out anything???? Has the streetcar facebook page said anything?!

They are convinced they will have a huge group there tomorrow. Has CfP sent out anything???? Has the streetcar facebook page said anything?!

 

Cincinnatians for Progress has been almost completely silent since the election. UrbanCincy just posted about the meeting on facebook, but that's it.

700wlw segments(At least 1 hour) devoted to bashing the streetcar by the numbers as described in their podcast description.  This does not include bringing up the project in a negative tone casually that happens seemingly everyday. In fact, These streetcar numbers on 700wlw are estimated very conservatively and are probably much lower than the actual number of venom spewed seemingly daily about this project:

 

'Doc' Thompson segments

 

*13 segments from November 22, 2010 - Dec 30, 2010*

 

*32 segments in 2011*

          - Includes 24 from July 5, 2011 - Dec 16, 2011

          - Includes 11 from November 1, 2011 - Dec 16, 2011

 

* 7 segments in 2012 (Jan 1 - Jan 26)

 

-----------------------

 

Total Numbers for 'Doc' Thompsons show

 

# of hours devoted to the streetcar since Nov 22, 2010

 

    *52 Hours (18 from Nov 1, 2011 - 1/26/2012)

 

          * Chris Smitherman appearances

                - 7 confirmed(Not including drive by call-in detailed summary of podcasts)

                - Appearances started on 7/27/2011

 

          * Other Anti streetcar related guest appearances talking about the issue(Luken, Finney, Kuhl, Ghiz, Berding, Murray, Monzel, Rhodes etc)

                  - 17

 

        * Pro Streetcar advocate segments invited on to discuss streetcar

                  -2 (Quinlivan and Thomas)

 

 

        *Anti Streetcar Guest segments

                  -24

 

        *Pro Streetcar Guest Segments

                  -2

 

Bill Cunningham Segments

 

*19 segments from 6/7/2010 - 12/31/2010 (Includes Eric Deters/some Dan Carrol filling in)

 

*39 segments in 2011 (Including 2 Election coverage segments and Excluding his bashing of the project in casual interviews with Seelbach, PG, Quinlivan, and Simpson)

 

*3 segments in 2012

 

----------------------

Total Numbers for Bill Cunningham show

 

# of hours devoted to the streetcar since 6/7/2010 - 1/26/2012

      *61

 

      *# of Chris Smitherman appearances/call in segments (Beginning with his first in 2/24/2011)

                - 14

 

      * # of Leslie Ghiz appearances/call ins always touching on the streetcar project

                - 21

 

      * # of anti-streetcar related guest appearances/call ins(Smitherman, Ghiz, Murray, Lippert, Luken, Rhodes, Berding, Finney,

                -42

 

      * # of pro streetcar related guest appearances(Bortz, Quinlivan)

                - 5

 

 

Sloan and Tracy

 

*11 segments from 1/19/2011 - 1/26/2012

        - All were in the year 2011

 

------------

 

Total Numbers for Sloan/Tracy

 

# of hours devoted to the streetcar since 1/19/2011-1/26/2012

      *11

 

        *Anti Streetcar related Guest segments(Ghiz, Murray, Harrell, Rhodes)

                - 7

 

        *Pro-Streetcar related guest segments (Quinlivan, Seelbach)

                - 3

 

-----------------

 

Mark Amazon show

 

*28 segments in 2011

 

        *Anti Streetcar related Guest segments(Smitherman, Finney, Rhodes, Bortz changing position, Berding, Ghiz, Murray, Gloyd, Winburn)

              - 22

 

        *Pro Streetcar related guest segments(Quinlivan)

              -2

 

 

 

 

Weekend shows

 

Podcasts aren't updated, many gaps in between, and very few pages to even go on.  Information is sporadic and the podcasts are completely unreliable.  Here is what we know for sure:

 

*Chris Smitherman has had 4 segments (two 2 hour shows called Smitherman on the Mic) (12/26/2011 and 1/15/2012)

 

*Chris Finney also was invited on Dan Carrolls show on 1/15/2011 to talk about the streetcar

 

*Darryl Parks has brought up the issue 8 known times from 2010-2011 (Almost all of his podcasts missing though including a Chris Finney interview)

 

Total numbers of known podcasts:

 

*13 segments

 

 

 

-------------------------

 

 

Total 700wlw Streetcar Numbers thus far

 

              * 165 Known podcast detailed segments(at least 165 hours) about the streetcar

                        -96 of which had anti-Streetcar guests on excluding Smitherman on the mic(58%)

                        -12 of which had pro-streetcar guests on(7%)

 

              *# of podcast detailed Chris Smitherman appearances including smitherman on the mic Since 2/10/2011

                    -29 (17%)

Smitherman alone has been on more than twice than all the number of appearances from a pro-streetcar guest combined

 

*Again, its important to note that this stats derive from the podcast description from 700wlw about the streetcar.  There are probably dozens of more appearances from anti-streetcar guests calling in or discussions on the streetcar that wander off topic*. 

 

*Stats are included up the Bill Cunningham Show at 12pm 1/26/2012

They are convinced they will have a huge group there tomorrow. Has CfP sent out anything???? Has the streetcar facebook page said anything?!

 

Cincinnatians for Progress has been almost completely silent since the election. UrbanCincy just posted about the meeting on facebook, but that's it.

 

We better get the word out.  Lets make Smitherman and Winburn's grandstanding plan backfire.  Smitherman will make a huge scene tomorrow.  Everyone needs to witness what a true meltdown looks like

How often is tomorrow's meeting being mentioned in these broadcasts?

For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

 

Completely disagree. Look at the coverage of the Brent Spence Bridge replacement (I seem to remember some  guy named "President Obama" giving a speech in front of it). The streetcar deserves media coverage as its a newsworthy item. Does it deserve the kind of coverage its been getting? As a journalism student and someone who's worked for a paper - I'd say that coverage has been poor, however it's getting this attention because it's a newsworthy subject, not because it was "made" into a political issue.

 

He said for most projects, not all. And he does have a point. For typical infrastructure projects, public meetings are announced thru various media, yet less than 30 usually show up (mostly the same folks). For example see:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26817.msg598352.html#msg598352

 

This is a bridge that is crossed by dang nearly every west-sider, yet only 30 show?. The BSB and Streetcar are anomalies. Who in the general public knew about the massive design/planning undertaking going on along I-75 before the stories in the paper this last Sunday foretelling the delay of those projects?

Could it be that the city got some more money and are again revising their plans to take the streecar uptown??

Could it be that the city got some more money and are again revising their plans to take the streecar uptown??

 

What gives you that idea?

For most public infrastructure projects, no one pays attention until the bulldozers show up. The stadiums were an exception.

 

Completely disagree. Look at the coverage of the Brent Spence Bridge replacement (I seem to remember some  guy named "President Obama" giving a speech in front of it). The streetcar deserves media coverage as its a newsworthy item. Does it deserve the kind of coverage its been getting? As a journalism student and someone who's worked for a paper - I'd say that coverage has been poor, however it's getting this attention because it's a newsworthy subject, not because it was "made" into a political issue.

 

He said for most projects, not all. And he does have a point. For typical infrastructure projects, public meetings are announced thru various media, yet less than 30 usually show up (mostly the same folks). For example see:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26817.msg598352.html#msg598352

 

This is a bridge that is crossed by dang nearly every west-sider, yet only 30 show?. The BSB and Streetcar are anomalies. Who in the general public knew about the massive design/planning undertaking going on along I-75 before the stories in the paper this last Sunday foretelling the delay of those projects?

 

I've been to probably over 100 public meetings and events in the past 2 years alone. Very rarely do you have more than 30 show up to an event (using that as a base line). The Ohio River Bridges project, which is far larger than the Brent Spence Bridge supplemental span project, usually has 10-30 in attendance unless the River Fields nuthouse spams to all of their followers to show up - and then it's only 30-50. Meetings about the Brent Spence project total about 30 followers, some far less, some a little more.

 

The Western Hills viaduct had about 30 and 30 for the 2 meetings. The I-75 meetings had 30 or less typically. A design meeting that was open to the public for The Banks Phase 1 only had 10, 15 and 30. Eastern Corridor has about 15-20 typically.

 

The streetcar meetings, when gathered at the city hall, have been packed at times. There are more people who show to these than nearly any other meeting for roads, heavy/commuter rail (e.g. 3C) or airport project.

What gives you that idea?

 

 

Just hoping, since it has been so long that the city has mentioned the streetcar.. :)

Smitherman has plugged the streetcar thing everyday.  This week he has been on the Buzz several times about it.

 

Spread the word on Facebook. John S, can you reach out to people??

I'm counting about 30-35 streetcars on order throughout the US next year.  But Toronto alone is ordering...189.

 

Is Toronto still going to use the high floor variants?

 

Low Floor , same with Septa which is buying a new fleet so it can restore some routes...

There has to be a reason John Schneider is silent on the issue of reaching out to streetcar supporters regarding tomorrow's meeting. I hope it's a good reason and that the reason becomes apparent. Soon.